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50 to 59.94 or anything like that

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ianfreeze
50 to 59.94 or anything like that
on Nov 1, 2007 at 2:34:18 am

Ok, bear with me here. This will make your head hurt. Some people I know are working on a film. They bought a PAL HVX200 and used a frame rate hack to get it to shoot 24p. Using this hack disables audio since it sees the 24 fps as "off speed". To record sound they want to buy another HVX200, an NTSC HVX200 and record the sound to it.

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE dont flame me for this, I know its absurd. There are any number of ways to get around this, I know, but I said Id look into it. Im just trying to help a friend out who lacks the technical expertise (obviously) to handle the monster theyve unleashed.

Ive never heard of this frame rate hack so I cant say exactly what it amounts to. I assume the camera records 24fps over 50, and that there is no way to do a 24pN as one would with an NTSC camera.

My question is this: Once its all said and done and filming is finished, can cinematools conform the 24fps over 50 footage to either 23.976 fps OR take it to 24 fps over 59.94?

They plan to do a film out, so in the end we need to get to 23.976, Im just not super familar with PAL conversions.



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JeremyG
Re: 50 to 59.94 or anything like that
on Nov 1, 2007 at 3:17:06 am

[ianfreeze] "To record sound they want to buy another HVX200, an NTSC HVX200 and record the sound to it.
"


I know, while they are recording that sound, why don't they just shoot video with it too?



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ianfreeze
Re: 50 to 59.94 or anything like that
on Nov 1, 2007 at 11:27:00 am

Im sorry, I didnt clarify. They want to shoot video with both cameras. The NTSC as the A cam and the PAL as the B cam. Its getting the two frequencies (50 and 59.94) to play nice in post Im worried about.



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Arniepix
Re: Oy! Never speak to these people again!
on Nov 1, 2007 at 2:54:14 pm

I'm sorry, but these people are really working very hard to screw this up. Someone should ask them, point blank, how important this project is to them? Is it important enough that they actually want to get it done? Important enough to do it well?

By mixing 50hz & 60hz cameras, they're creating a tortured workflow. Not even counting whatever "hack" they're using to make the 50hz camera shoot 24fps.

If they already own 1 50hz, & they want to shoot dual cameras (which is probably not going to make things easier for them, either), they should simply buy a matching camera. That will make things much easier, & let them concentrate on telling their story. If they insist on shooting half their footage in a different standard, they'll wind up spending a lot of energy simply on getting things to work together smoothly.

They're going to wind up rendering nearly half of the shots in their timeline. Or they're going to wind up converting half of their material to match the other half, wasting time & disk space. Or they'll wind up downconverting all of their material to some single, lower standard, and then find out that they can't easily match back some (or, probably, all) of the timecode to make their online.

Run away! RUNNNNNNNN!!!

Arnie

Now in post: Peristroika, a film by Slava Tsukerman

http://www.arniepix.com/blog


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ianfreeze
Re: Oy! Never speak to these people again!
on Nov 1, 2007 at 3:03:32 pm

I agree 100%. Im trying to help some people who seem dead set on remaining helpless. I didnt know if there was some magical trick in cinematools or the FRC that might do the trick to get the 24 over 50 stuff to straight 24. As I suspected, no such magic exists, unless I can find Gandolf.



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JeremyG
Re: Oy! Never speak to these people again!
on Nov 1, 2007 at 3:04:20 pm

Truly. It'd be best to buy another PAL HVX, shoot 25pN and then do the slow down to 24 later.

That comes with it's own set of hassles, but much much less than what they are trying to do.


Jeremy



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Arniepix
Re: Oy! Never speak to these people again!
on Nov 1, 2007 at 3:12:22 pm

At least it's an established workflow. There are people who have done it so often that they can just do it without thinking about it.

And if they rent a digital field recorder for the shoot, they can easily get a 4 or 8 track recorder, rather than the 2 tracks that they can get on the HVX. Or where they planning on using the onboard mic to save on rentals? ;)

Arnie

Now in post: Peristroika, a film by Slava Tsukerman

http://www.arniepix.com/blog


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CharlieX
Re: 50 to 59.94 or anything like that
on Nov 2, 2007 at 5:44:15 pm

So are they planning on intercutting footage with BOTH these cameras? or is the NTSC solely for audio?

(in which case why not buy a freaking audio DVR and use sticks to sync audio? but we digress)

And is this PAL camera going to yield 24.0 media?




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ianfreeze
Re: 50 to 59.94 or anything like that
on Nov 3, 2007 at 5:28:11 am

well, I got in touch with some there who knew a little bit more about this "hack" He said in the menu it was listed at 24pN, but when he dropped it into FCP the file played at 24, not 23.976. Which makes perfect sense since the base frequency of the camera is 50 making it impossible to get the 23.xxx. Its a ridiculous way to do things, but its what they are dead set on doing. I threw my two cents on the table and they can take it or leave it.



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Arniepix
Re: 50 to 59.94 or anything like that
on Nov 3, 2007 at 2:35:11 pm

[ianfreeze] "I threw my two cents on the table and they can take it or leave it."

Smart move. I sense that this is yet another indie opus that will never see the light of day.

Arnie

Now in post: Peristroika, a film by Slava Tsukerman

http://www.arniepix.com/blog


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