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IO HD vs V3HD by Motu

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rarudio
IO HD vs V3HD by Motu
on Sep 11, 2007 at 6:29:07 pm

Hello All,

Does anybody know how the IO HD compare to the V3HD by Motu?

thanks!

Roland


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Bob Zelin
Re: IO HD vs V3HD by Motu
on Sep 11, 2007 at 7:46:50 pm

V3HD is DVCProHD only. I/O HD is ProRes422 and ProRes422HQ only. V3HD just came out a few days ago, and no one has the I/O HD. It's just not out yet. If you have to make a living, you can buy what you know works, and the AJA product line works. If you held a gun to my head (and I had to make a living while you were holding that gun), and said "choose !" - I would pick the AJA I/O HD or the Blackmagic Eclipse (same price), because these are 2 proven companies. No one (except for ProMax) has really played with the MOTU. It might be great, but I just don't know.

Bob Zelin


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Rob Brambila
Re: IO HD vs V3HD by Motu
on Sep 11, 2007 at 11:40:50 pm

Here is the breakdown....

We have been testing the V3HD for two weeks now and I have to say that the thing works just as they say it does. Right out of the box it was up and running in minutes, and has been for two weeks now. The windows support is coming with the native DVCPROHD support in Premiere, and a Prores workflow is being developed as we speak. The following was written in response to a thread about the V3HD on the FCPL.





I had the privilege of meeting with the Motu guys yesterday here at ProMax. We jumped on board with this product because we really liked the audio benefits it offers, and honestly think it and the IoHD will have their own niches. Yes there will be overlap, but there are distinct reasons to buy one or the other.

1) As far as the surround sound goes, you bet you can monitor all channels via analog if you like. They give you 8 of them. Again, that's one of the reasons we have these things in stock. We think that is a big advantage for guys paying close attention to audio. It also has the ability to use 32 channels of simultaneous audio at 44.1khz -192khz, which is just killer. It also has a feature called audio delay compensation that allows you to tell the audio to slow down to match the video, because most converters could have some sort of delay once it hits a plasma let's say. We need to test more, but in theory anything that uses core audio should work fine on this box. That's the way all the other Motu audio gear works as well from what I'm told. It can also be used as a 32 channel standalone audio interface with no computer connected, and that is also killer for live events. Lastly, it has a nice array of syncing options as well, mainly the ability to resolve to word clock from a digital mixer. Again, for audio guys that's pretty nice.

Ok, I know that's long winded, but hopefully it helps. I'll leave you with a short can and can't do list.




Can do...

32 channels of simultaneous audio
192khz audio
Separate SD and HD outputs, not switchable. (We saw this thing outputting to at least 5-6 different SD/HD monitors at the same time, all in sync)
It is actually a 10 bit, 4:2:2: device
Great audio interface and features
Optical I/O for DAT devices and such
It is extremely flexible due to the widely accepted DVCPRO HD format

Can't do...

Cross conversion
NTSC to PAL conversion
No ProRes capture (yet)
No Windows support for about a month, plus Windows traditionally isn't the greatest DVCPRO vehicle anyway (although EDIUS handles it best I've seen)
It's also not full raster (1920 x 1080) obviously like ProRes, so standard DVCPRO limitation there


If there are more specific questions that you have please feel free to ask. (I would love to keep playing with this thing.)


Thanks,

Rob Brambila

System Engineer
Promax Systems
rob.brambila@promax.com
http://www.promax.com


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gary adcock
Re: IO HD vs V3HD by Motu
on Sep 12, 2007 at 8:07:33 am

Rob..

"It is actually a 10 bit, 4:2:2: device "

thats really, really hard when the DVCPROHD codec only records and plays back 8bit.


why not mention the overwhelming number of presets, nearly 150)
or how does one deliver or transport 32 tracks of audio when DVCPROHD only supports 8 at the format level and there are only 24 audio tracks available in the HDSDI transport stream.


how does the Video look under scrutiny?
Have you captured from a Panny camera and matched the DVCPROHD compression?
it did not match in the tests I witnessed.




gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows


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walter biscardi
Re: IO HD vs V3HD by Motu
on Sep 12, 2007 at 8:31:58 am

[gary adcock] "Have you captured from a Panny camera and matched the DVCPROHD compression?
it did not match in the tests I witnessed."


That would be a huge problem for sure. DVCPro HD is already a pretty heavily compressed format and if the codec is not handled correctly by the I/O device, it could get ugly in a hurry.

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
http://www.biscardicreative.com
HD Editorial & Animation for Broadcast and independent productions.

All Things Apple Podcast! http://cowcast.creativecow.net/all_things_apple/index.html

Read my blog! http://blogs.creativecow.net/WalterBiscardi


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Rob Brambila
Re: IO HD vs V3HD by Motu
on Sep 12, 2007 at 4:08:27 pm

"thats really, really hard when the DVCPROHD codec only records and plays back 8bit."

I think that there is a misunderstanding. To say that the device is capable of 10bit 4:2:2 is not saying that this means the DVCPROHD codec. The box is built around standard processing chips, which are perfectly capable of 10bit. The limitation comes in the bandwidth of firewire, and the only other available high quality HD codec that could stream through firewire right now is Prores. Motu has not ruled out support for other codecs in the future.

"how does one deliver or transport 32 tracks of audio when DVCPROHD only supports 8 at the format level and there are only 24 audio tracks available in the HDSDI transport stream. "

It supports up to 32 simultaneous channels of audio whether it is recording, streaming, or outputting. (not format or stream specific.)

We haven't captured from a Panasonic although we did compare test footage shot on one. From what we saw the box held up nicely.




Thanks,

Rob Brambila

System Engineer
Promax Systems
rob.brambila@promax.com
http://www.promax.com


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walter biscardi
Re: IO HD vs V3HD by Motu
on Sep 12, 2007 at 8:30:06 am

[rarudio] "Does anybody know how the IO HD compare to the V3HD by Motu?"

For Track record alone, I'm going with AJA products. The only people I've seen who have used the V3HD are folks who have tested it. I don't see any post houses who make their living editing day to day bringing on into the shop or even talking about bringing one into the shop. With AJA you just know the product is going to work given their long broadcast track record.

Look at the fact that AJA delayed the Io HD for a bit for more testing to ensure that when you get your hands on it, it will work. Also if I'm going to spend that kind of money, the box darn well better cross convert for me as that is a huge deal for us right now with Apple refusing to support 720p drop frame.

For both the product and support, I honestly would not touch anything outside of AJA for a major I/O component in my shop, but that's just me. Your mileage my vary, as folks are wont to say on these forums.



Walter Biscardi, Jr.
http://www.biscardicreative.com
HD Editorial & Animation for Broadcast and independent productions.

All Things Apple Podcast! http://cowcast.creativecow.net/all_things_apple/index.html

Read my blog! http://blogs.creativecow.net/WalterBiscardi


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JeremyG
Re: IO HD vs V3HD by Motu
on Sep 12, 2007 at 2:41:14 pm

It seems that this would be a great box if you are in audio post production and need all that audio capability, all the while being able to monitor DVCProHD in your audio suite.

The IoHD is more a video centric box for all the video editors out there.


Jeremy


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walter biscardi
Re: IO HD vs V3HD by Motu
on Sep 12, 2007 at 7:48:44 pm

[JeremyG] "It seems that this would be a great box if you are in audio post production and need all that audio capability, all the while being able to monitor DVCProHD in your audio suite.

The IoHD is more a video centric box for all the video editors out there."


Yeah that's what I'm thinking. Motu is an audio company. I'm not about to trust all my high definition work to an audio company that looks like they've created a really good monitoring device and are trying to market it as a video I/O device.

Especially when trying to compare the AJA IoHD to this thing. The IoHD has a solid family history with the Kona and Io series, not to mention all the AJA converters. AJA has been a part of thousands of hours of broadcast and HD broadcast productions.

Motu has a lot of audio gear. So if you're an audio designer, maybe you want the Motu. If you're a video editor, you want the Io HD or any other product from AJA.

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
http://www.biscardicreative.com
HD Editorial & Animation for Broadcast and independent productions.

All Things Apple Podcast! http://cowcast.creativecow.net/all_things_apple/index.html

Read my blog! http://blogs.creativecow.net/WalterBiscardi


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walter biscardi
Re: IO HD vs V3HD by Motu
on Sep 12, 2007 at 7:50:04 pm

[rarudio] "Hello All,

Does anybody know how the IO HD compare to the V3HD by Motu?

thanks!

Roland"


Roland you have zero information filled out in your profile. What kind a facility are you operating and what role do you need the Io HD or Motu box to fill? It helps us to give you better information if we know more about your situation.

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
http://www.biscardicreative.com
HD Editorial & Animation for Broadcast and independent productions.

All Things Apple Podcast! http://cowcast.creativecow.net/all_things_apple/index.html

Read my blog! http://blogs.creativecow.net/WalterBiscardi


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Bob Zelin
Re: IO HD vs V3HD by Motu
on Sep 12, 2007 at 10:02:15 pm

I find this thread pretty funny now. The Blackmagic Eclipse just got released, and everyone is so freaked out by the Motu V3HD, when the Blackmagic Eclipse does uncompressed HD, cross conversion, etc. yet no one asks questions about it - only the MOTU V3HD.

So what has this taught me ? That having good ad campaigns on the back of magazine covers really works.

Bob Zelin


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Rob Brambila
Re: IO HD vs V3HD by Motu
on Sep 13, 2007 at 12:13:59 am

Good point, Bob. Very well put. But I think the comparisons are flying around because the IOHD and the V3HD are firewire devices
and the Eclipse is a PCIE based device. But I agree with you that the Eclipse is very exciting and I can't wait to start on those rounds of testing.

Thanks,

Rob Brambila

System Engineer
Promax Systems
rob.brambila@promax.com
http://www.promax.com


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Rich Rubasch
Re: IO HD vs V3HD by Motu
on Sep 13, 2007 at 12:50:53 am

And, Bob it is because a big, double-truck wide, glossy photo of a dual-stacked box with lots of lights and a ton of connectors turns our heads. Editors (well, many of us) are gear heads. A PCI card is not all that exciting...but the Motu looks like a modern, rockin piece of gear.

Looks like...

Not sure what it behaves like...yet.

Rich Rubasch
Tilt Media


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RRLord
Re: IO HD vs V3HD by Motu
on Sep 13, 2007 at 1:54:54 am

Bob, you are so right about blackmagic's eclipse, in my opinion this device is the benchmark to use with a mac pro and FCP Studio 2.

Russ Lord
Acme Underground Design


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rarudio
Re: IO HD vs V3HD by Motu
on Sep 13, 2007 at 9:17:26 am

Exactly Bob... we get curious and try to learn more about new technologies only when we see or hear about them, hoping it would make our systems more efficient and our client offerings more diverse. If we don't see/hear about them, we don't try to shift the paradigm. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

Roland


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walter biscardi
Re: IO HD vs V3HD by Motu
on Sep 13, 2007 at 1:33:06 pm

[rarudio] "Exactly Bob... we get curious and try to learn more about new technologies only when we see or hear about them, hoping it would make our systems more efficient and our client offerings more diverse. If we don't see/hear about them, we don't try to shift the paradigm. Thanks for sharing your thoughts."

Again, what are you actual needs? I asked in an earlier response because you don't have your profile filled out. Depending on what you actually need to do, the Io HD might owrk, the V3HD might work, the Kona series might work and so forth.

What are your actual needs as far as I/O and editing functionality in your situation?

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
http://www.biscardicreative.com
HD Editorial & Animation for Broadcast and independent productions.

All Things Apple Podcast! http://cowcast.creativecow.net/all_things_apple/index.html

Read my blog! http://blogs.creativecow.net/WalterBiscardi


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rarudio
Re: IO HD vs V3HD by Motu
on Sep 13, 2007 at 8:51:20 pm

Hi Walter,

I just got the chance to edit my profile so it's online. Thanks for your "always" useful advice!

Roland



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