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Capturing out of sync

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Richarde007
Capturing out of sync
on Jul 19, 2007 at 11:00:19 am

Hello,

I'm new to the forum and to Macs and Video Capture in general.

I'm trying to capture Digibeta masters to the encode into MPEG2 for DVD release.

I'm using Final Cut Pro 5.1.4

Mac Pro Intel Dual 3GHz
4GB Ram
1 TB Internal HDD (No external drives)
AJA Kona LSE Card
Sony J 30 Digibeta connected through component and analogue XLR's to the Kona breakout cable.
I monitor with my desktop monitor and all audio is line out through soundsticks.

Basically i am unable to capture audio and video (PAL) in synch through this setup. When i first got the digibeta i was using firewire and capturing in DV format and everything then was in synch. Then i was told that i really ought to be capturing in 8 or 10 bit unbcompressed using a Kona card. Since then in either of those formats nothing synchs up.

The audio seems to happen approximately 1-2 frames ahead of the video and this is so in the log and capture window, canvas, viewer and on all exported quicktime and mpeg2 files...... basically please can someone help me as this is doing my head in. I'm just using the Kona 8 bit uncompressed easy setup in FCP if that helps.

Many thanks in advance

Richard


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walter biscardi
Re: Capturing out of sync
on Jul 19, 2007 at 1:05:37 pm

System Settings > Playback Offset > Frame Offset.

Set to 0 when using the Kona board.

Set to 4 when using DV. (4 is default)


Walter Biscardi, Jr.
http://www.biscardicreative.com
HD Editorial & Animation for Broadcast and independent productions.

All Things Apple Podcast! http://cowcast.creativecow.net/all_things_apple/index.html

Read my blog! http://blogs.creativecow.net/WalterBiscardi


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Richarde007
Re: Capturing out of sync
on Jul 19, 2007 at 1:12:29 pm

Walter,

Thanks for getting back to me so fast.

I forgot to mention that i've already done that after scouring the net for any leads and still no joy.

Any other ideas?


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walter biscardi
Re: Capturing out of sync
on Jul 19, 2007 at 1:14:41 pm

[Richarde007] "I forgot to mention that i've already done that after scouring the net for any leads and still no joy.

Any other ideas?"


How are you monitoring your video and sound?

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
http://www.biscardicreative.com
HD Editorial & Animation for Broadcast and independent productions.

All Things Apple Podcast! http://cowcast.creativecow.net/all_things_apple/index.html

Read my blog! http://blogs.creativecow.net/WalterBiscardi


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Richarde007
Re: Capturing out of sync
on Jul 19, 2007 at 1:17:58 pm

With a desktop monitor and headphones or lineout desktop speakers.

I realise this isn't ideal but surely this shouldn't affect the actual capture and export?


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walter biscardi
Re: Capturing out of sync
on Jul 19, 2007 at 1:20:12 pm

[Richarde007] "
With a desktop monitor and headphones or lineout desktop speakers.

I realise this isn't ideal but surely this shouldn't affect the actual capture and export?"


You MUST monitor the Kona and NOT the computer when playing back video via Uncompressed HD.

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
http://www.biscardicreative.com
HD Editorial & Animation for Broadcast and independent productions.

All Things Apple Podcast! http://cowcast.creativecow.net/all_things_apple/index.html

Read my blog! http://blogs.creativecow.net/WalterBiscardi


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Richarde007
Re: Capturing out of sync
on Jul 19, 2007 at 1:23:39 pm

Ok, so what do i need to put on my shopping list ideally? External monitor and powered speakers that accept XLR connections?

It isn't HD btw, it's SD PAL


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walter biscardi
Re: Capturing out of sync
on Jul 19, 2007 at 1:30:25 pm

If you had the Kona breakout box, you would have RCA connectivity. Since you don't, you can either get audio monitors that support XLR or simply pick up some XLR to RCA adapters to connect to just about any audio monitors.

As for the video monitor, any video monitor will do, even a regular TV if that's what you can afford. You can run component or composite out of the Kona to the TV. We run the Sony PVM broadcast series here.

The main point is you need to be watching and listening to the Kona, not monitoring through the computer.

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
http://www.biscardicreative.com
HD Editorial & Animation for Broadcast and independent productions.

All Things Apple Podcast! http://cowcast.creativecow.net/all_things_apple/index.html

Read my blog! http://blogs.creativecow.net/WalterBiscardi


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Richarde007
Re: Capturing out of sync
on Jul 19, 2007 at 1:33:32 pm

Sorry to labour the point but basically what you're saying is that I am introducing the sync problems by not doing so. If i setup FCP so that everything is set to monitor through the AJA card it will then capture in sync and then i will be able to export in sync?


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walter biscardi
Re: Capturing out of sync
on Jul 19, 2007 at 1:50:40 pm

[Richarde007] "If i setup FCP so that everything is set to monitor through the AJA card it will then capture in sync and then i will be able to export in sync?"

this only has to do with playback, not capture or export.

So when you look at the waveforms in the timeline, you can clearly see that the audio is out of sync with the video? I've never seen this here with Kona captures and I do some work in PAL.

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
http://www.biscardicreative.com
HD Editorial & Animation for Broadcast and independent productions.

All Things Apple Podcast! http://cowcast.creativecow.net/all_things_apple/index.html

Read my blog! http://blogs.creativecow.net/WalterBiscardi


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Richarde007
Re: Capturing out of sync
on Jul 19, 2007 at 2:34:03 pm

"So when you look at the waveforms in the timeline, you can clearly see that the audio is out of sync with the video? I've never seen this here with Kona captures and I do some work in PAL."

Yep, that's what i'm getting.


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walter biscardi
Re: Capturing out of sync
on Jul 19, 2007 at 2:47:51 pm

[Richarde007] "
Yep, that's what i'm getting."


Then I really don't have any other input for you. This is something I've not seen here at all. We have a Sony J3/902 multiformat player, but we have SDI output on our deck. No sync issues there at all.

I would contact AJA Tech support and see what they have to say.

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
http://www.biscardicreative.com
HD Editorial & Animation for Broadcast and independent productions.

All Things Apple Podcast! http://cowcast.creativecow.net/all_things_apple/index.html

Read my blog! http://blogs.creativecow.net/WalterBiscardi


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Bob Zelin
Re: Capturing out of sync
on Jul 19, 2007 at 10:57:35 pm

Richard,
If walter has not made this perfectly clear to you by now, please let me repeat. Your audio on your "sound sticks" will NEVER EVER EVER be in sync - you MUST monitor your picture, and you must monitor your audio from the output of your Kona card - NOT THE INTERNAL AUDIO OUT OF YOUR MAC. I don't care if this doesn't make sense to you. JUST DO IT. Your problems will be gone.

Bob Zelin


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lumiere
Re: Capturing out of sync
on Jul 20, 2007 at 1:30:35 am

As far as monitoring properly, if you are playing the video on the computer screen and monitoring the audio from the computer, it should be a true representation of your sync.

Basically, you don't want to monitor the video through the kona card and the audio from the computer (or vice versa).

Simply opening your clip in QT an playing the audio from the computer (not via the kona) should show you accurately if you have an issue and it sounds like you do.

Are you capturing the audio embedded in the SDI signal from the Digibeta?

Frederic


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Richarde007
Re: Capturing out of sync
on Jul 20, 2007 at 9:13:20 am

Lumiere,

I'm capturing through analogue. if i do just play the captured quicktime file the sync is still out which is what is puzzling me.

Would you recommend the AJA HD10AVA box then to embed the audio?


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lumiere
Re: Capturing out of sync
on Jul 20, 2007 at 11:25:39 am

[Richarde007] "Would you recommend the AJA HD10AVA box then to embed the audio?"

I guess but you should be able to get your setup to work.

Is the audio consistently off sync (number of frames) or is it a slip (offsync frames increases over time)?


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walter biscardi
Re: Capturing out of sync
on Jul 20, 2007 at 11:53:26 am

[Richarde007] "Would you recommend the AJA HD10AVA box then to embed the audio?"

You should not require this, the setup should work as is. What did AJA tech support say?

Is the audio out of sync when you play back the same Quicktime files on another computer?

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
http://www.biscardicreative.com
HD Editorial & Animation for Broadcast and independent productions.

All Things Apple Podcast! http://cowcast.creativecow.net/all_things_apple/index.html

Read my blog! http://blogs.creativecow.net/WalterBiscardi


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Richarde007
Re: Capturing out of sync
on Jul 20, 2007 at 1:28:46 pm

AJA support didn't really suggest anything different to what everyone is saying here. Trash my preferences, reinstall etc. I spoke to Rudy and although he was very helpful couldn'r seem to work out the problem.

The synch seems to be consistently out most of the time but occasinally will slip in. This could be some of the old source material i'm dealing with though.

Yes, it's out of sync on a pc and when compressed to MPEG2 and put in a DVD player.


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lumiere
Re: Capturing out of sync
on Jul 20, 2007 at 1:35:52 am

[Richarde007] "Sony J 30 Digibeta connected through component and analogue XLR's to the Kona breakout cable.
I monitor with my desktop monitor and all audio is line out through soundsticks."


Ah, you aren't ingesting via SDI - I've never been successful getting analogue audio in and component video in to sync well direct into the Kona. I use an IO as an intermediate to convert the analogue signals to one digital SDI signal with embedded audio.

But then again, I'm sure someone else here has been successful with your setup.

Finally, make sure you use the easy setup for AJA PAL 8 bit uncompressed to insure all is set properly.

Frederic


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walter biscardi
Re: Capturing out of sync
on Jul 20, 2007 at 1:46:15 am

[lumiere] "Ah, you aren't ingesting via SDI - I've never been successful getting analogue audio in and component video in to sync well direct into the Kona."

I know there are a lot of folks using the LH and LHe with component video / analogue audio.

We use an AJA HD10AVA converter to take Component and Analog audio from our HDV decks and convert those to SDI with embedded audio into our Kona 3's.

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
http://www.biscardicreative.com
HD Editorial & Animation for Broadcast and independent productions.

All Things Apple Podcast! http://cowcast.creativecow.net/all_things_apple/index.html

Read my blog! http://blogs.creativecow.net/WalterBiscardi


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Neil Sadwelkar
Re: Capturing out of sync
on Jul 30, 2007 at 4:17:18 am

Just capture a small section of tape which has some definite sync - a door slamming shut, something falling etc.

See the picture and waveform in FCP and observe if they are in sync.
Preferably take a screenshot.
Go to another known good sync system. Any system even non-AJA-FCP will do,
Capture the same there and see waveform.
Preferably take a screenshot.

Compare the two. If the offset in waveform and picture is the same in both systems, then your system is good. If not, you need to forward this to AJA with details.

I've spent a lot many hours troubleshooting a system with 'sync issues' only to find that the client's tape had dodgy sync through really bad ADR/Foley.

Alternately you can create a 'sync test' tape with a few minutes of black with a 1 frame pop every second or so. But don't use your system to make this tape unless you've sorted your sync issues.

Neil Sadwelkar

FCP Editor, Mumbai, India.
Completely PAL.


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