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Separate forum for PC users?

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Mitch Ives
Separate forum for PC users?
on Jul 18, 2007 at 3:16:35 pm

Is the COW considering spliting the Kona forum so that PC users can find their own posts and us "original" users won't have to wade through all the PC posts to find things that apply to us?

Thoughts, anyone?

Mitch Ives
Insight Productions Corp.
mitch@insightproductions.com

Apple Certified Trainer: Final Cut Pro 5


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JeremyG
Re: Separate forum for PC users?
on Jul 18, 2007 at 3:43:07 pm



http://forums.creativecow.net/viewforum/217




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Michael Palmer
Re: Separate forum for PC users?
on Jul 18, 2007 at 4:00:48 pm

PC is Xena from AJA
They do have their own place
http://forums.creativecow.net/viewforum/217
MP


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Mitch Ives
Re: Separate forum for PC users?
on Jul 18, 2007 at 4:13:40 pm

[Michael Palmer] "PC is Xena from AJA
They do have their own place
http://forums.creativecow.net/viewforum/217
MP"


I can see that subtlety is lost on you guys.

I know there is a Xena forum, which begs the question, "why do we have to wade through all the PC posts on this forum"?

Mitch Ives
Insight Productions Corp.
mitch@insightproductions.com

Apple Certified Trainer: Final Cut Pro 5


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JeremyG
Re: Separate forum for PC users?
on Jul 18, 2007 at 4:24:47 pm

Sorry, Mitch. I am not just a little lost, I have fallen off the edge of the Earth, nowhere to be found.


What do you mean, exactly?


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David Roth Weiss
Re: Separate forum for PC users?
on Jul 18, 2007 at 4:33:23 pm

[Mitch Ives] "I know there is a Xena forum, which begs the question, "why do we have to wade through all the PC posts on this forum"?"

Seems to this forum hardly gets enough traffic to warrant concerns about wading through anything.

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Post-production Supervisor
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY


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walter biscardi
Re: Separate forum for PC users?
on Jul 18, 2007 at 5:25:32 pm

[David Roth Weiss] "[Mitch Ives] "I know there is a Xena forum, which begs the question, "why do we have to wade through all the PC posts on this forum"?"

Seems to this forum hardly gets enough traffic to warrant concerns about wading through anything."


And if the Kona product line moves to the PC side, then we'll have posts for both platforms in here. Don't see an issue. After Effects and Photoshop are both platform agnostic but there's only one forum. Don't see a need to create any sort of PC Kona and Mac Kona forums.

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
http://www.biscardicreative.com
HD Editorial & Animation for Broadcast and independent productions.

All Things Apple Podcast! http://cowcast.creativecow.net/all_things_apple/index.html

Read my blog! http://blogs.creativecow.net/WalterBiscardi


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Bob Zelin
Re: Separate forum for PC users?
on Jul 18, 2007 at 9:56:22 pm

Hi Mitch -
I bet you couldn't wait to see my response. You mean "can we get rid of all the disk drive, audio mixer, speaker, After Effects, MAC, and hot dog questions on this forum, and ONLY discuss the Kona card, never discussing any other system issues" -

NO MITCH WE CAN'T. The AJA Kona is an integral part of an editing system, and everything from the PC's that we communicate with, the disk drives that we use, the chairs that we sit on, the monitors that we view with, AND THE COFFEE THAT WE DRINK, all pertain directly to the AJA Kona hardware. Everything in the day to day life of all editors is starting to revolve around AJA or Blackmagic hardware. This is life, and life happens here on this forum.

So Mitch, do you prefer Illy coffee, or Starbucks, when using the Kona LHe on your MAC Pro ?

Bob Zelin


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JeremyG
Re: Separate forum for PC users?
on Jul 18, 2007 at 10:06:23 pm

[Bob Zelin] "when using the Kona LHe on your MAC Pro ?"

Yeah, but don't you mean PC since we need to wade through all the PC posts on this board?

Get it straight, Bob.


[Bob Zelin] "You mean "can we get rid of all the disk drive, audio mixer, speaker, After Effects, MAC, and hot dog questions on this forum, and ONLY discuss the Kona card, never discussing any other system issues" - "

Tell that to AJA tech support, not only do they support Kona issues, they have to support FCP, in a sense, as well.





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Shane Ross
Re: Separate forum for PC users?
on Jul 18, 2007 at 11:41:23 pm

Where are all these PC posts in which you speak? I haven't seen one...



Shane

Littlefrog Post
http://www.lfhd.net


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JeremyG
Re: Separate forum for PC users?
on Jul 19, 2007 at 3:31:53 am

Yeah, I really don't know and Mitch seems to have disappeared with subtlety.


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Mitch Ives
Re: Separate forum for PC users?
on Jul 19, 2007 at 2:24:37 pm

[JeremyG] "Yeah, I really don't know and Mitch seems to have disappeared with subtlety.
"


I love your sense of humor jeremy, which is why I made the previous post. Not disappeared, though I'm sure some would applaude that... and apparently not so subtely...

Mitch Ives
Insight Productions Corp.
mitch@insightproductions.com

Apple Certified Trainer: Final Cut Pro 5


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Mitch Ives
Re: Separate forum for PC users?
on Jul 19, 2007 at 2:25:57 pm

[Shane Ross] "Where are all these PC posts in which you speak? I haven't seen one..."

I have... but I predict thay will be lost in all the Mac Premiere questions...

Mitch Ives
Insight Productions Corp.
mitch@insightproductions.com

Apple Certified Trainer: Final Cut Pro 5


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Mitch Ives
Re: Separate forum for PC users?
on Jul 19, 2007 at 2:22:46 pm

[Bob Zelin] "Hi Mitch -
I bet you couldn't wait to see my response. "


Now Bob, you know I'd stand in line to hear your thoughts...

[Bob Zelin] "Everything in the day to day life of all editors is starting to revolve around AJA or Blackmagic hardware. "

Yes, and AJA is about to give up their edge over DeckLink. Ever since DeckLink went cross-platform, they have been slow to release updated drivers. Fighting a two-front war is not for small companies, and it's why we went back to AJA. Now, we're about to lose that. I had an interesting conversation with Paul Brainerd, the founder of Aldus after they went cross-platform. It was the biggest mistake they made according to him. The tech support calls on the PC side ate up all the increased revenue and resulted in him having to sell to Adobe.

[Bob Zelin] "So Mitch, do you prefer Illy coffee, or Starbucks, when using the Kona LHe on your MAC Pro ? "

I try to avoid Starbucks. I don't think I should be able to drain a large iced cappucino in three draws on the straw, leaving me with a mountain of ice...



Mitch Ives
Insight Productions Corp.
mitch@insightproductions.com

Apple Certified Trainer: Final Cut Pro 5


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walter biscardi
Re: Separate forum for PC users?
on Jul 19, 2007 at 2:50:23 pm

[Mitch Ives] "Fighting a two-front war is not for small companies, and it's why we went back to AJA. Now, we're about to lose that. I had an interesting conversation with Paul Brainerd, the founder of Aldus after they went cross-platform. It was the biggest mistake they made according to him. The tech support calls on the PC side ate up all the increased revenue and resulted in him having to sell to Adobe."

You do realize the Xena has been out almost a year now on the PC? It's been very successful for AJA.

I don't see their resources being hurt in any way, especially seeing the unveiling of the Io HD at NAB. That was a nice piece of work and not something I would expect from a company that was having cross-platform issues.

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
http://www.biscardicreative.com
HD Editorial & Animation for Broadcast and independent productions.

All Things Apple Podcast! http://cowcast.creativecow.net/all_things_apple/index.html

Read my blog! http://blogs.creativecow.net/WalterBiscardi


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Mitch Ives
Re: Separate forum for PC users?
on Jul 19, 2007 at 6:51:11 pm

[walter biscardi] "You do realize the Xena has been out almost a year now on the PC? It's been very successful for AJA. "

Yes. Everything looks successful in the early years... time will tell. That's why the measure of any new business is to still be in business at the 5 year mark. Anyone can do things well for a year or two.

[walter biscardi] "I don't see their resources being hurt in any way, especially seeing the unveiling of the Io HD at NAB. That was a nice piece of work and not something I would expect from a company that was having cross-platform issues."

The Io HD has a lot to prove, and it would appear you have more confidience than I. I was a very early Io adopter and a long suffering user. Even in the end it still had issues and tradeoffs. It's a nice product, but an serious user will probably express similar thoughts. That's why most Io users love the simplicity and reliability of the Kona. The HD version of the Io looks interesting, but I expect a lot of teething... time will tell.

[walter biscardi] "As a follow-up and doing some more research.

AJA has been creating Windows products for 8 years now and counting. Originally as OEM equipment and continuing now with the Xena product. The Xena is two years old now, not one like I originally thought. The Xena is AJA's PC card. The Kona is AJA's Mac card. AJA already has a solid reputation on the PC. AJA has a solid reputation on the Mac. So what is the fuss here Mitch? "


In all of my conversations, AJA has been, (by their own admission) primarily a Mac developer. The Xena was originally billed as a "monitor output card". This is from their own mouths.

In conversations with AJA, I have expressed my concerns about their increased efforts in the PC area. This is a perfectly acceptable business move, but only if it has absolutely no ill effects on the bread winner, which is the Mac line. To their credit, they have admitted that many others have expressed similar concerns. Some inside AJA have expressed concerns as well privately. I've seen this too many times, and I hope you are right Walter and that I am mistaken. I guess we'll know if we have to start putting off equipment upgrades because AJA doesn't have updates in a timely manner for the Mac FCP products. Adding Premiere support, as well as the PC side is extending their reach quite a bit.

I understand why DeckLink developed the PC products. They felt they had gotten shafted by AJA partnering with Apple on the Io and leaving them out in the cold. They started with Mac products, but with the AJA/Apple partnership, the move to the PC makde some sense, even if it did slow down driver releases... and accelerate the demise of PCI-X products a bit prematurely.

I'm still trying to figure out AJA's motivation. In the words of Paul Brainerd... "we fell in love with the size of the market, when what we should have focused on was profitability, not market size". Mercedes and BMW both understand that... they each have a lower market share than Apple, but make more money than the larger market leaders...

Given the ever increasing Mac and FCP market share, AJA should have been able to make an obscene amount of money with only Mac based FCP based products. I hope this all works out for them, because they were my favorite company... doing everything better and faster than any of the others. One can only hope they aren't over-extending...


Mitch Ives
Insight Productions Corp.
mitch@insightproductions.com

Apple Certified Trainer: Final Cut Pro 5


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walter biscardi
Re: Separate forum for PC users?
on Jul 19, 2007 at 11:55:40 pm

[Mitch Ives] "[walter biscardi] "You do realize the Xena has been out almost a year now on the PC? It's been very successful for AJA. "

Yes. Everything looks successful in the early years... time will tell. That's why the measure of any new business is to still be in business at the 5 year mark. Anyone can do things well for a year or two."


As mentioned, AJA has been creating Windows Products for 8 years. They know Windows, they know Mac.



[Mitch Ives] "The Io HD has a lot to prove, and it would appear you have more confidience than I."

I saw it at NAB as I was in the booth. I also know that AJA won't release it until it does everything that is promised of it. IT will work and it's very impressive.


[Mitch Ives] "In all of my conversations, AJA has been, (by their own admission) primarily a Mac developer. The Xena was originally billed as a "monitor output card". This is from their own mouths."

Funny, I had a conversation with AJA today. They have been developing Windows products for 8 years. They're comfortable with Windows. This was from their own mouths.

[Mitch Ives] "Given the ever increasing Mac and FCP market share, AJA should have been able to make an obscene amount of money with only Mac based FCP based products. I hope this all works out for them, because they were my favorite company... doing everything better and faster than any of the others. One can only hope they aren't over-extending..."

That's correct. Apple's computer market share has skyrocketed from 2% to I believe 4 - 6% so AJA should really ignore that other 94% of the computer market and concentrate wholly on the Mac side.

I love my Mac and won't do Windows, but geez, AJA is sure making a brilliant business decision to continue working with the Windows platform that they've been working with for 8 years. Don't ya think?


[Mitch Ives] "I'm still trying to figure out AJA's motivation"

Honestly I'm still trying to figure out your motivation for this entire thread.

AJA creates Windows Products.

There is a separate forum for the AJA Xena (Windows product) users.

AJA creates Mac products.

There is a separate forum for the AJA Kona (Mac product) users.

Mitch is unhappy.

Who knows why.

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
http://www.biscardicreative.com
HD Editorial & Animation for Broadcast and independent productions.

All Things Apple Podcast! http://cowcast.creativecow.net/all_things_apple/index.html

Read my blog! http://blogs.creativecow.net/WalterBiscardi


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walter biscardi
AJA on Windows 8 years and counting
on Jul 19, 2007 at 5:05:36 pm

As a follow-up and doing some more research.

AJA has been creating Windows products for 8 years now and counting. Originally as OEM equipment and continuing now with the Xena product.

The Xena is two years old now, not one like I originally thought.

The Xena is AJA's PC card. The Kona is AJA's Mac card.

AJA already has a solid reputation on the PC. AJA has a solid reputation on the Mac.

So what is the fuss here Mitch?

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
http://www.biscardicreative.com
HD Editorial & Animation for Broadcast and independent productions.

All Things Apple Podcast! http://cowcast.creativecow.net/all_things_apple/index.html

Read my blog! http://blogs.creativecow.net/WalterBiscardi


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Bob Zelin
Re: AJA on Windows 8 years and counting
on Jul 19, 2007 at 10:54:13 pm

Hi Mitch -
When you go to an Adobe user group meeting for Adobe Production Studio, the hardware they demonstrate with the the AJA Xena product on a HP xw8400. So when you discuss "PC stuff", these users are currently going onto the Cow AJA Xena forum, not this forum.

However, when AVID decides to abandon the Adreanline hardware, and OEM the AJA I/O HD as their hardware interface, I WELCOME questions from AVID users on the AJA product line - I hope it winds up on these two AJA forums. Then, instead of bitching about "PC question on the Kona forum" - you can bitch about AVID questions on the AJA forum.

Bob Zelin


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