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Be Careful. Mistake in AJA Easy Setups for ProRes NTSC

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Sean ONeil
Be Careful. Mistake in AJA Easy Setups for ProRes NTSC
on Jun 19, 2007 at 10:42:05 pm

The Easy Setup for "AJA Kona3: 525 29.97 ProRes 422 (HQ)" is wrong.

The Capture Preset and Sequence Preset is set to the non-HQ ProRes. In fact they forgot to even make an HQ ProRes Capture/Sequence Presets for NTSC 29.97.

Sean


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walter biscardi
Re: Be Careful. Mistake in AJA Easy Setups for ProRes NTSC
on Jun 19, 2007 at 11:08:35 pm

Quite honestly, you really don't even need HQ to work in ProRes. I heard from some colleagues that after questioning Apple at NAB, ProRes is actually a great codec in itself and there is no perceptible difference between it and HQ. We started using the regular ProRes in SD after looking at a few clips and could not see the difference.

Just an FYI.

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
http://www.biscardicreative.com
HD Editorial & Animation for Broadcast and independent productions.

All Things Apple Podcast! http://cowcast.creativecow.net/all_things_apple/index.html

Read my blog! http://blogs.creativecow.net/WalterBiscardi


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Sean ONeil
Re: Be Careful. Mistake in AJA Easy Setups for ProRes NTSC
on Jun 19, 2007 at 11:31:14 pm

I've actually been hearing the oppisite, and that's its really no better (or worse) than Avid DNXHD. It's DCT compression (like regular JPEG), not the more advanced wavelet (like JPEG2000 or Cineform). And 200mbps is a lot of compression for 10-bit HD. Not to mention you yourself saw artifacts at NAB.

I'm not complaining. It's the best format FCP has ever had. But I'm a lot more comfortable using HQ at all times - whether I can see the difference or not. And if my Easy Setup says its HQ, then that's what it should be. So I would hope they fix it.

Blackmagic screwed up too. They forgot ProRes is 10-bit and made all their Easy Setups 8-bit instead.

Sean


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Bob Zelin
Re: Be Careful. Mistake in AJA Easy Setups for ProRes NTSC
on Jun 20, 2007 at 11:39:25 am

Sean -
your comment is critical -

" I've actually been hearing the oppisite, and that's its really no better (or worse) than Avid DNXHD."

REPLY -
I would like to know EXACTLY WHO says that DNxHD 220 is not acceptable quality. Every TV network in the US says it's acceptable (and CBS Network is on air every day with DNxHD145 on the ISIS Unity servers). If you can't say who, then what kind of work does Mr. "DNxHD 220 is not acceptable" do for a living ? ProRes 422HQ is DNxHD220. Please tell me exactly what can't be done with these resolutions, and requires uncompressed HD. If this is a feature for film for George Lucas, I apologize in advance.

Bob Zelin




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Sean ONeil
Re: Be Careful. Mistake in AJA Easy Setups for ProRes NTSC
on Jun 20, 2007 at 3:09:45 pm

[Bob Zelin] "EXACTLY WHO says that DNxHD 220 is not acceptable quality"

Nobody said it wasn't acceptable, myself included. You're reading into things too much.

Sean


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gary adcock
Re: Be Careful. Mistake in AJA Easy Setups for ProRes NTSC
on Jun 20, 2007 at 2:24:33 pm

[Sean ONeil] "And 200mbps is a lot of compression for 10-bit HD. Not to mention you yourself saw artifacts at NAB. "

Eh?
DVCPROHD is compressed at 100 mbps, HDcam is compressed at 145 mbps, both at 8bit
so 200 mbps for 10bit is about right.


"They forgot ProRes is 10-bit "

Actually it is both 8 bit and 10bit.


gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows


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Sean ONeil
Re: Be Careful. Mistake in AJA Easy Setups for ProRes NTSC
on Jun 20, 2007 at 3:12:39 pm

[gary adcock] "DVCPROHD is compressed at 100 mbps, HDcam is compressed at 145 mbps, both at 8bit
so 200 mbps for 10bit is about right. "


Neither of those are full-frame, and they're certainly not the model for flawless video compression. Far from it.

ProRes is better. No doubt. But don't fool yourselves into thinking its perfect. I'm sure Final Cut 8 will come with an even better format.

For the second time, I AM NOT COMPLAINING ABOUT PRORES. I'm happy to have it.

Sean


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Jeremy Newmark
Re: Be Careful. Mistake in AJA Easy Setups for ProRes NTSC
on Jun 20, 2007 at 9:01:24 am

[walter biscardi] "Quite honestly, you really don't even need HQ to work in ProRes. I heard from some colleagues that after questioning Apple at NAB, ProRes is actually a great codec in itself and there is no perceptible difference between it and HQ."

This is not true if you are working with 1080 23.976 material. From the testing we've done so far, there is a very perceptible difference between ProRes 422 and ProRess 422 HQ. When looking at solid colors, like a blue sky for example, we've seen very noticeable artifacting, in ProRes 422, that is not present in HQ. The ProRes 422 HQ file is almost indistinguishable from the original uncompressed file, but the ProRes 422 file has clear artifacting. We're still testing.

best regards,

jeremy


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walter biscardi
Re: Be Careful. Mistake in AJA Easy Setups for ProRes NTSC
on Jun 20, 2007 at 11:14:39 am

[Jeremy Newmark] "When looking at solid colors, like a blue sky for example, we've seen very noticeable artifacting, in ProRes 422, that is not present in HQ."

Interesting, we'll have to look at that some more. A blue sky is certainly a great test and that was one of the areas where we saw a noticeable difference in the Apple presentation at NAB.

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
http://www.biscardicreative.com
HD Editorial & Animation for Broadcast and independent productions.

All Things Apple Podcast! http://cowcast.creativecow.net/all_things_apple/index.html

Read my blog! http://blogs.creativecow.net/WalterBiscardi


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Santiago Gutierrez
Re: Be Careful. Mistake in AJA Easy Setups for ProRes NTSC
on Jun 20, 2007 at 2:09:25 pm

AJA is aware of this issue. I notified them about it a few weeks ago. If you email support about it, they'll email you the proper preset file needed. This only affects the 525 29.97 ProRes HQ preset. But you can make the 525 ProRes HQ preset for yourself by duplicating the existing ProRes 525 (non HQ) and switching the codec to ProRes HQ. Do that in both the capture settings and the sequence settings and you'll be set.
Santiago



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Sean ONeil
Re: Be Careful. Mistake in AJA Easy Setups for ProRes NTSC
on Jun 20, 2007 at 3:14:57 pm

[Santiago Gutierrez] "I notified them about it a few weeks ago. If you email support about it, they'll email you the proper preset file needed."

Thanks. Yes I was able to fix it quickly.

I'm not the one they should worry about. It's people who don't know about it that will be capturing non-HQ thinking it is HQ.

Sean


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John Heagy
Re: Be Careful. Mistake in AJA Easy Setups for ProRes NTSC
on Jun 20, 2007 at 3:22:33 pm

According to Apple's white paper, ProRes is 8bit ProRes(HQ) is 10bit.

John Heagy
NFL Films


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Sean ONeil
Re: Be Careful. Mistake in AJA Easy Setups for ProRes NTSC
on Jun 20, 2007 at 5:56:25 pm

[John Heagy] "According to Apple's white paper, ProRes is 8bit ProRes(HQ) is 10b"

Their HQ Easy Setups are 8-bit. They've already posted that it was a mistake.

Sean


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