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HDV monitoring and output to DVCAM..need some insight

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spydrtwo
HDV monitoring and output to DVCAM..need some insight
on May 23, 2007 at 4:42:39 pm

I'll start by saying that this is in no way the workflow that I would choose, but because of our clients' demands, many of which are film studios in LA, I am stuck with it so I don't necesserilay need to hear all about how it's insane, because I already agree! Yes, we're working in HDV, I know, I know tell me about it. This question doesn't specifically apply to KONA cards, but because we currently have one I thought I would start here.

My facility is basically set up in the following way, we offline our cuts on fairly standard G5s running FCP 5.1.2. We then online all of our content, whether it be SD or HD, on our fully equipped KONA-3 system complete with a nice JVC HD monitor and rasterizer scope and waveform monitor. So far so good, our clients are always happy with our product and I'm content with the setup for the most part.

We do our rough layoffs to DVCAM mainly because at this time you can't use the EDIT TO TAPE function and match your tape timecode to the timeline timecode through firewire. We have the M25 deck and haven't made the investment in the HVR1500 just yet. As long as we're not onlining anything it's easy to do our rough layoffs of HDV content on the KONA-3 system to our DSR1500. No problems. But if we are onlining something then our rough layoff becomes a chore with all the renders just to be able to go out to an M25 in SD or to a DSR 11 deck. I am looking for a solution in a variety of ways, some of my research is below. I think I ultimately just want to be able to output to my DSR1500 via one of my other computers. This deck has an SDI card as well as separate AES input/output, and component input/output with RS422 control.

Here are the questions:

HVR1500- Can you output with plus/minus 1 or 2 frame accuracy via Firewire?

I'm also looking at an external box, cheaper Decklink or Kona card to solve this problem for me.

Matrox MXO - It is my impression that this is good for viewing and doing crash records, but that there is no way to have RS422 deck control, is that correct?

Same question for the Decklink HD LINK and HD LINK PRO.

What is the cheapest Decklink card that will give me RS422 control and SDI output that will downconvert the HDV signal to SD. As far as I'm concerned it only needs to be able to output to standard def.

Same question for the KONA line of cards.

I appreciate any input on this that anyone can give and I thank you in advance! Have a good day.



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Bob Zelin
Re: HDV monitoring and output to DVCAM..need some insight
on May 23, 2007 at 6:02:34 pm

REPLY -
this will be my typical smart ass answers, but I know that you are in a bind, and are being told "this is the way you will work, end of story". In real life, I can give a client a hard time about workflow, and show them the financial loss of working in HDV when a deadline is involved. I will respond to your comments below -

YOU WRITE -
We do our rough layoffs to DVCAM mainly because at this time you can't use the EDIT TO TAPE function and match your tape timecode to the timeline timecode through firewire. We have the M25 deck and haven't made the investment in the HVR1500 just yet. As long as we're not onlining anything it's easy to do our rough layoffs of HDV content on the KONA-3 system to our DSR1500. No problems. But if we are onlining something then our rough layoff becomes a chore with all the renders just to be able to go out to an M25 in SD or to a DSR 11 deck. I am looking for a solution in a variety of ways, some of my research is below. I think I ultimately just want to be able to output to my DSR1500 via one of my other computers. This deck has an SDI card as well as separate AES input/output, and component input/output with RS422 control.

REPLY - DONT WORK IN HDV. You have several options here. You can take the output of the M25 analog HD out and go into a AJA HD10AVA, to convert the analog HD into HD-SDI, so you are not digitizing in HDV mode. You can now work in DVCPro HD, uncompressed HD, or the new Pro Res 422. You can also use the Convergent Design HD-Connect-MI to convert the HDMI signal off the M25 to HD-SDI. Or you can have them spend $6000, and buy the correct VTR for this professional job, which is the Sony HVR-1500, that will give you HD-SDI out, as well as RS422 control. Want to do an "offline" - take the composite video out of the HVR-1500, and go composite in via a LHe or I/O box, and use the RS422 for your VTR control . Then later, do it for real. No matter what way you choose here, you can output to your DSR-1500 with no problems.




Here are the questions:

HVR1500- Can you output with plus/minus 1 or 2 frame accuracy via Firewire?

REPLY - I don't know. Use the HVR-1500, or output to the DSR-1500, just dont' INPUT via firewire.


I'm also looking at an external box, cheaper Decklink or Kona card to solve this problem for me.

REPLY - I just gave you a lot of examples for input - convert your M25 to HD-SDI, and go into a Kona 3. Or buy an AJA LHe, and go in analog HD with no converter. Or buy a Convergent Design HD-Connect MI, and go into a Kona 3. Or buy a Sony HVR-1500. There is only one rule here - DONT INPUT VIA FIREWIRE HDV. Follow this advice, and you will have no problems.


Matrox MXO - It is my impression that this is good for viewing and doing crash records, but that there is no way to have RS422 deck control, is that correct?

REPLY - no, no VTR control. Want RS422, buy the Sony HVR-1500, which is designed for this application.


Same question for the Decklink HD LINK and HD LINK PRO.

REPLY - nothing wrong with Blackmagic products, they use RS422 control as well (just like AJA) - just use the Sony HVR-1500 HDV VTR.


What is the cheapest Decklink card that will give me RS422 control and SDI output that will downconvert the HDV signal to SD. As far as I'm concerned it only needs to be able to output to standard def.

REPLY - You can use the Decklink HD Extreme, you can use the AJA Kona LH or LHe - both will let you bring in ANALOG HD (not HDV) from your M25, and both have RS422 control. Of course, the M25 does not have RS422 control, so get the HVR-1500. If you use the Convergent Design HD-Connect-MI to get into your AJA or Blackmagic card, it will convert the firewire to RS422, but the M25 will respond and cue up slowly.


Same question for the KONA line of cards.

REPLY - I just answered your questions. STOP USING HDV. You can shoot with it, you can use the decks, but don't use the Codecs for editing, and NEVER enter an edit system via firewire with HDV. Use real HD - there are plenty of products out there from Sony, AJA, Blackmagic, AVID, Convergent and others that will SOLVE YOUR PROBLEMS. If your bosses want to be idiots, you can have me call them, I will be happy to tell them on the phone that they are clueless.

Bob Zelin


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