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maybe this is simple...720p signal to plasma different color than NTSC 525

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Bob Flood
maybe this is simple...720p signal to plasma different color than NTSC 525
on May 10, 2007 at 7:59:38 pm

HI

i am probably missing something here, but i am still a little wet behind the ears when it comes to multiformat video projects:

there is a distinct difference between my 720p program and its 525 converted counerpart.

i have an akai multiformat display, and when i switch my kona lh output from the 525 secondary out to the 720p primary out, the overall color gets more red. going the other way the 525 is more orange

I also see this when i compare an MPEG2 file from my compressor vs a compression made off
a D-1 tape output from mY FCP

waht am i missing? is the HD colorspace different than the NTSC? and if so waht can i do to get the 2 color space to line up. we really like the way the NTSC looks, but the compression made of the HD timeline appears sharper

whats an editor to do? are there info resources that splain all this colour and color stuff?

tanx ahead
bee eph

"I like video because its so fast!"

Bob Flood
Greer & Associates, Inc.


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JeremyG
Re: maybe this is simple...720p signal to plasma different color than NTSC 525
on May 10, 2007 at 8:34:25 pm

Yes, two different color spaces. Rec 601 for NTSC vs Rec 709 for HD. You should color correct two different timelines for each setup.

Jeremy


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Bob Flood
Re: maybe this is simple...720p signal to plasma different color than NTSC 525
on May 10, 2007 at 9:30:06 pm

wow

1. can you point me in a direction to learn more about this?

and B. Is there a way to convert my HD file to 601 color space?

(right now i use an HD self contained movie to make an NTSC dvd)

thanx again jeremy!

bee eph

"I like video because its so fast!"

Bob Flood
Greer & Associates, Inc.


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JeremyG
Re: maybe this is simple...720p signal to plasma different color than NTSC 525
on May 10, 2007 at 11:32:23 pm

First, if you need an HD master, cc through the Kona watching on a properly calibrated HD monitor in HD. CC to you are satisfied, then duplicate that timeline and include a tag line of_SD_CC or something. Set your down convert on the Kona and send bars to your monitor to recalibrate in SD color space. Watch your HD timeline down converted to SD through your Kona and then use your scopes, eyes and experience to correct for SD.

Jeremy


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Bob Flood
Re: maybe this is simple...720p signal to plasma different color than NTSC 525
on May 11, 2007 at 2:49:58 am

thanx jeremy

thats very helpful, specially about the experience.

one thing i have learned through experience is that i wish there was a simpler way, and there usually isn't.

thanx again


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JeremyG
Re: maybe this is simple...720p signal to plasma different color than NTSC 525
on May 11, 2007 at 2:54:59 am

No worries and have fun!


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gary adcock
Re: maybe this is simple...720p signal to plasma different color than NTSC 525
on May 11, 2007 at 1:25:55 pm

[Bob Flood] "i have an akai multiformat display, and when i switch my kona lh output from the 525 secondary out to the 720p primary out, the overall color gets more red. going the other way the 525 is more orange"

bob

do you have the Kona Control panel set correctly- for the color you are sending out?
The Kona card maybe sending out YUV when the display wants RGB.


"waht am i missing? is the HD colorspace different than the NTSC? and if so waht can i do to get the 2 color space to line up. we really like the way the NTSC looks, but the compression made of the HD timeline appears sharper"

there should not be that big a jump in the color on the down conversion it should look as close to the original as possible.



gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows


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Bob Flood
Re: maybe this is simple...720p signal to plasma different color than NTSC 525
on May 11, 2007 at 6:31:31 pm

thanx gary

I also get the same color difference when comparing an m2v made off the FCP hd timeline vs
an m2v made from a D1 layoff (via the card) so i am ruling out the monitor

bee eph

"I like video because its so fast!"

Bob Flood
Greer & Associates, Inc.


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gary adcock
Re: maybe this is simple...720p signal to plasma different color than NTSC 525
on May 11, 2007 at 8:06:43 pm

[Bob Flood] "
I also get the same color difference when comparing an m2v made off the FCP hd timeline vs
an m2v made from a D1 layoff (via the card) so i am ruling out the monitor"


there are different colors of component in video. Some are RGB and Some are YUV.
Please check to see what the component setting is.



gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows


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JeremyG
Re: maybe this is simple...720p signal to plasma different color than NTSC 525
on May 11, 2007 at 9:05:16 pm

[gary adcock] "Some are RGB and Some are YUV. "

Then there's the whole Beta and Smtpe versions of SD component.



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Bob Flood
Re: maybe this is simple...720p signal to plasma different color than NTSC 525
on May 14, 2007 at 3:58:05 pm

Gary et al

I am not confusing RGB, YUV/Betacam, YUV SMPTE. :)

I am saying that there is a color differemce between 720P DVCPROHD and Downconverted NTSC. Which IS fine, as jeremy pointed out, i need to consider color correcting for 2 timelines instead of just one. Luckily, we are releasing the material Only in NTSC so Its not necessary to have 2 final color corrected timelines.

That Being Said

we shoot on high def to future proof, and we edit in high def to take advantage of image detail AND we show the client in high def on a 4 ft wide plasma screen in a screening room.
Only converting to NTSC for release.

Now, this workflow may be flawed, and we should probably convert to ntsc when digitizing, and only re aquire in high def if and when we need to reposition shots?

OR

there is a magic happy filter/plug in/software application that will convert my Hi Def color space to NTSC color space so i can continue to work as i mentioned?

thanx again



"I like video because its so fast!"

Bob Flood
Greer & Associates, Inc.


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JeremyG
Re: maybe this is simple...720p signal to plasma different color than NTSC 525
on May 23, 2007 at 2:58:55 am

[Bob Flood] "there is a magic happy filter/plug in/software application that will convert my Hi Def color space to NTSC color space so i can continue to work as i mentioned?"

Yep...you.



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