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Tri-level sync and Kona LH/3

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chrispy
Tri-level sync and Kona LH/3
on Apr 29, 2007 at 5:09:39 am

Hi,

If I'm going to work on a 1080/24psF project on either a Kona LH or Kona 3, what kind of issues would I get if I don't have a tri-level sync fed to both the Kona card and the HD VTR (either HDCAM or D5) during both digitizing and edit-to-tape ?

And to confirm again, if I'm working on a 1080/50i or 25p project, I just need a PAL black burst reference...ya ?

Thanks,

-chrispy


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Jeremy Newmark
Re: Tri-level sync and Kona LH/3
on Apr 29, 2007 at 10:03:30 am

Hey Chrispy,

I'm not sure what kind of issues you'd have with not using a tri-level sync, being that I've never tried on our Kona 3 without one. I would guess that you could have all kinds of drift and sync issues, especially in an offline/online workflow, but I'm sure that Bob Z. can chime in hear with a whole slew of possible issues. I know that when I've tried to do it on our Avid without one, we couldn't even digitize 24p footage, the capture tool would shut down right away. However, this should not be nearly as difficult of a problem to deal with anymore, come June, since AJA will be delivering the new GEN10 (tri-level sync for under $400).

In regards to the 1080/50i or 25p project, yes a PAL black burst reference will work just fine. I hope this helps.

best regards,

jeremy


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Bob Zelin
Re: Tri-level sync and Kona LH/3
on Apr 29, 2007 at 3:38:44 pm

first off, you don't work at 24psf, you work at 23.98 - NEVER set your camera for 24, unless your only plan is to to a telekine back to film. Your VTR can convert to a normal PAL frame rate for you, if you are doing a TV project. Then you would use your normal PAL black generator. HOWEVER, if you want to work with a 23.98 timeline, and edit back to tape at 23.98, you will ABSOLUTELY need to use a tri level sync gen, or you will have all kinds of
problems **. If you can't wait for the GEN10, rent an Astro Systems or Ensemble tri level sync gen for this job (the rental will cost more than the GEN 10).

** you can "fake it" by disconnecting all reference video, let the AJA run in FREE RUN, and set the VTR to look at INPUT VIDEO as it's servo reference, instead of AUTO or EXT REF. Make sure your VTR menu;s are setup for 23.98, and not 25.

Bob zelin


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chrispy
Re: Tri-level sync and Kona LH/3
on Apr 30, 2007 at 1:54:49 am

Hi Bob, Jeremy,

Thanks for your advise.

My apologies...the project will be in 23.98psF instead of 24psF.

Bob, you mentioned that the VTR will convert to normal PAL frame rate for me. So if I edit and master to the HD VTR in 23.98psF format, I can then playback through the HD VTR and output a PAL HD output (and downconverted SD output) at 25fps ?

Are both the Sony HDCAM and Panasonic D5 VTRs capable of doing this ?

-chrispy



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chrispy
Re: Tri-level sync and Kona LH/3
on Apr 30, 2007 at 1:56:44 am

Hi Bob, Jeremy,

Thanks for your advise.

My apologies...the project will be in 23.98psF instead of 24psF.

Bob, you mentioned that the VTR will convert to normal PAL frame rate for me. So if I edit and master to the HD VTR in 23.98psF format, I can then playback through the HD VTR and output a PAL HD output (and downconverted SD output) at 25fps ?

Are both the Sony HDCAM and Panasonic D5 VTRs capable of doing this ?

-chrispy



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gary adcock
Re: Tri-level sync and Kona LH/3
on May 1, 2007 at 1:29:13 pm

[chrispy] "Bob, you mentioned that the VTR will convert to normal PAL frame rate for me. So if I edit and master to the HD VTR in 23.98psF format, I can then playback through the HD VTR and output a PAL HD output (and downconverted SD output) at 25fps ? "

Yes HDCam SR and D5 will do this - however the audio will be sped up.

gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows


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chrispy
Re: Tri-level sync and Kona LH/3
on Apr 30, 2007 at 2:01:03 am

Hi Bob, Jeremy,

Thanks for your advise.

My apologies...the project will be in 23.98psF instead of 24psF.

Bob, you mentioned that the VTR will convert to normal PAL frame rate for me. So if I edit and master to the HD VTR in 23.98psF format, I can then playback through the HD VTR and output a PAL HD output (and downconverted SD output) at 25fps ?

Are both the Sony HDCAM and Panasonic D5 VTRs capable of doing this ?

-chrispy



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chrispy
Re: Tri-level sync and Kona LH/3
on Apr 30, 2007 at 2:02:56 am

Hi Bob, Jeremy,

Thanks for your advise.

My apologies...the project will be in 23.98psF instead of 24psF.

Bob, you mentioned that the VTR will convert to normal PAL frame rate for me. So if I edit and master to the HD VTR in 23.98psF format, I can then playback through the HD VTR and output a PAL HD output (and downconverted SD output) at 25fps ?

Are both the Sony HDCAM and Panasonic D5 VTRs capable of doing this ?

-chrispy


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chrispy
Re: Tri-level sync and Kona LH/3
on Apr 30, 2007 at 2:12:00 am

Hi Bob, Jeremy,

Thanks for your advise.

My apologies...the project will be in 23.98psF instead of 24psF.

Bob, you mentioned that the VTR will convert to normal PAL frame rate for me. So if I edit and master to the HD VTR in 23.98psF format, I can then playback through the HD VTR and output a PAL HD output (and downconverted SD output) at 25fps ?

Are both the Sony HDCAM and Panasonic D5 VTRs capable of doing this ?

-chrispy


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chrispy
Re: Tri-level sync and Kona LH/3
on Apr 30, 2007 at 3:03:33 am

Hi Bob, Jeremy,

Thanks for your advise.

My apologies...the project will be in 23.98psF instead of 24psF.

Bob, you mentioned that the VTR will convert to normal PAL frame rate for me. So if I edit and master to the HD VTR in 23.98psF format, I can then playback through the HD VTR and output a PAL HD output (and downconverted SD output) at 25fps ?

Are both the Sony HDCAM and Panasonic D5 VTRs capable of doing this ?

-chrispy


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chrispy
Re: Tri-level sync and Kona LH/3
on Apr 30, 2007 at 4:24:52 am

Hi Bob, Jeremy,

Thanks for your advise.

My apologies...the project will be in 23.98psF instead of 24psF.

Bob, you mentioned that the VTR will convert to normal PAL frame rate for me. So if I edit and master to the HD VTR in 23.98psF format, I can then playback through the HD VTR and output a PAL HD output (and downconverted SD output) at 25fps ?

Are both the Sony HDCAM and Panasonic D5 VTRs capable of doing this ?

-chrispy


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Bob Zelin
Re: Tri-level sync and Kona LH/3
on May 1, 2007 at 1:57:49 am

some sony VTR's can, some can't. The HDW-F500, the HDW-1800, the SRW-5500, and the JH-3 all do 2:3 pulldown. The HDW-M2000 and the HDW-S280 DO NOT have 2:3 pulldown (making these VTR's useless in my world). In the past, I have insisted that clients with these VTR's purchase the Colbalt Digital 8021 2:3 pulldown hardware converter (it does more than this), but now that the AJA FS-1 is available to do this, I would only use the FS-1.

Panasonic AJ-HD1200, 1400, and 1700 all have 2:3 pulldown built in. I don't know the D-5 product line.

Bob ZElin


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