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Kona LHe -which codec for HDCAM?

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editology
Kona LHe -which codec for HDCAM?
on Apr 2, 2007 at 8:46:34 pm

I have been experimenting with the Kona LHe and the Sony ADW-F500 for a long form job coming next week.... Let me prep that I'm new to HD but been editing since '88. The smallest data rate I've gotten is using 8 bit uncompressed codec that's standard to the mac. Is there a kona codec that is native to the board or is a better solution than what I'm using?
The only codecs that come up are:
aja kona 10bit- log rgb codec, aja kona 10bit rgb codec, aja kona 2vuy codec.

Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.

Ron


kona lhe on a dual 2g pci-e ppc
galaxy hdx 4tb celerity dual4g



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JeremyG
Re: Kona LHe -which codec for HDCAM?
on Apr 2, 2007 at 8:56:19 pm

DVCPRO HD will yield smaller file sizes, but add on more compression than uncompressed.

Jeremy


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editology
Re: Kona LHe -which codec for HDCAM?
on Apr 2, 2007 at 9:45:23 pm

Unfortunately that codec changes the file size to 1440 when I need to maintain 1920x1080i.

thanks.
Ron


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JeremyG
Re: Kona LHe -which codec for HDCAM?
on Apr 2, 2007 at 9:53:18 pm

Why do you need to maintain 1920? HD Cam gets recorded to tape as 1440...


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editology
Re: Kona LHe -which codec for HDCAM?
on Apr 3, 2007 at 1:13:57 am

That sounds confusing to me. HDCAM specs are 1920x1080 square. There are templates in FCP that state that. Please make this all make sense to me....

Totally appreciate it.
Ron


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JeremyG
Re: Kona LHe -which codec for HDCAM?
on Apr 3, 2007 at 1:57:46 am

FCP will stretch your image back out to 1920x1080 for monitoring. Editing in DVCPRo HD for an offline will save you mounds and mounds of disk space and allow more real time. When you are ready for your online, you can then recapture to uncompressed. Editing uncompressed HD in FCP can be a bit of a chore and I save it until the last possible moment. So, I ask you again, why do you have to retain 1920x1080?

Jeremy


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Bob Zelin
Re: Kona LHe -which codec for HDCAM?
on Apr 3, 2007 at 2:18:45 am

Jeremy is correct - almost everyone works with compressed HD - and DVCProHD looks great. Remember, AVID DNxHD220 (their best resolution) is compressed, so there is no reason not to use it.

Bob Zelin


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editology
Re: Kona LHe -which codec for HDCAM?
on Apr 3, 2007 at 2:19:35 am

First off, thank you for help with this... I totally appreciate it... Secondly, I just read this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betacam.

The project is a little complicated but I am going to offline on dvcam and then online.

Which sequence preset/codec do you think that I should use for the online?

So the codec makes it 1440 but the seq is in 1920?

thanks again,
Ron


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editology
Re: Kona LHe -which codec for HDCAM?
on Apr 3, 2007 at 2:27:39 am

I'm sorry I don't think that I answered your question....

The specs for sending the dv cam tape to cine media digital solutions is that it is 1920 square.

But you said that the signal stretches back out for monitoring.... is that true for laying to tape?

thanks,
Ron


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JeremyG
Re: Kona LHe -which codec for HDCAM?
on Apr 3, 2007 at 2:31:02 am

[editology] "The specs for sending the dv cam tape to cine media digital solutions is that it is 1920 square."

This is a total mismatch of information. DV Cam is no way 1920x1080 square. DVcam is 720x480. SO, I assume you mean HD Cam.

If you offline in DVCPRo HD, your image will get properly recorded to HDCam. If you offline in dv, it won't.

Jeremy


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editology
Re: Kona LHe -which codec for HDCAM?
on Apr 3, 2007 at 2:46:10 am

[editology] "The specs for sending the dv cam tape to cine media digital solutions is that it is 1920 square."

This is a total mismatch of information. DV Cam is no way 1920x1080 square. DVcam is 720x480. SO, I assume you mean HD Cam.


MY BAD. THAT'S WHAT I MEANT... HDCAM TAPE. Just stressed out trying to understand this by tomorrow.

Ron


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editology
Re: Kona LHe -which codec for HDCAM?
on Apr 3, 2007 at 3:11:23 am

Please don't give up on me.... Just need to understand it....

thanks...
Ron


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JeremyG
Re: Kona LHe -which codec for HDCAM?
on Apr 3, 2007 at 2:27:52 am

Alright, I ask you again, for the third time, why do you have to retain 1920 and now you area talking about editing in DV? I am only asking to help you.

There's really no reason to offline in DV. Really. It will probably cause you more trouble when it comes time to online. If you edit in DVCPRo HD, you will be editing in a compressed Hd environment, and all of your graphics, titles, etc will be made in the proper HD frame rates and resolutions. Also, you will be monitoring in HD and it will generally look and feel much better rather than editing in DV.

If you offline in DVCPro HD 1080, you will be much happier. When your edit is locked, then recapture to uncompressed and make your project sing.


Jeremy


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editology
Re: Kona LHe -which codec for HDCAM?
on Apr 3, 2007 at 2:41:43 am

Jeremy,
Like I said the project is complicated.... It seems that I need to explain the whole project... I plan to offline the project on a macbook pro with firewire 800 drive on the set of the shoot for 3 days, get client sign off and then fly back to the studio to do the online. We are shooting 50 minutes of green screen that I plan to go to an online room to pull the key and composite with an animated background and then re master to tape. I'm going to take that tape (timecoded selects) back to FCP hi rez and intercut with animation files from after effects.
So I'm trying to be efficient and make the online as stable as possible. I will work in dvcpro HD as long as I can master back to HDCAM tape for delivery.

If you see anything that could be more efficient in my process, please let me know.

Thanks for your thoughts,
Ron


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JeremyG
Re: Kona LHe -which codec for HDCAM?
on Apr 3, 2007 at 3:12:45 am

Alright, now we are getting somewhere.

You aren't planning to pull the key on set are you? Why go to an online room to pull the key? Can you afford that? Do you have any experience pulling a key?

First big question, how are you planning on capturing HD-Cam to a laptop?

I'll make some assumptions here. I assume that you will not pull the key on set and that you will be cutting strictly for content.

You can do that on a fw800 drive and DVCPro HD (a raid0 sata would be more ideal) as long as you are going to have the deck and FW800 drive on separate busses. You will need to FW800 express34 card. (again sata would be better/faster).

Cut your content on set and fly home to your studio to recapture the HDCam green screen as uncompressed. Then take that cut into AE for green screen (or pull the key using Boris Continuum COmplete and no I'm not kidding) and do your compositing.

If you go the route of the online room, then I guess your budget is large. You can do that too. In that case, you can still cut for content in DVCPRo HD, and then simply export an xml or EDL for the online room and away you go. I would not try to pull the key using DVCPro HD, but nothing short of 10bit uncompressed.


Jeremy


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editology
Re: Kona LHe -which codec for HDCAM?
on Apr 3, 2007 at 3:26:52 am

Thanks for responding....

So many details...
I am bringing a dsr 45 to record to dv cam out of the Sony 900 Cinealta camera via composite to cut an offline. Unfortunately we are not shooting in a studio set but on location in a ballroom.

I didn't plan to do HD on the labtop. I want to make sure that I can be stable in front of the client. They don't need to approve the cut in HD...

I am taking an edl to the online room for 2 hours for only a grand to finish the green screen work--rather than spending a day rendering and tweeking the chroma keys over 2 days time. (estimated in AE)
--don't know Boris Continuum...

So I will actually concentrate on the 80 pages of Powerpoint that needs to be converted to full screen and overlays in HD....

catch my drift now.
thanks,
Ron




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JeremyG
Re: Kona LHe -which codec for HDCAM?
on Apr 3, 2007 at 3:36:59 am

Wow. Yeah, explaining this totally upfront would have helped a lot. Workflow is ALL about the details.

So you are going to do your offline in DV with a DSR45. You are going to need to jam sync tc from the camera to the deck. You get how to do that, correct?

2 hours of green screen work for a 50 minute timeline? Hmm, hope that goes as planned.

This will all depend on if you can jam sync your HdCam source tapes to the DVCam offline tapes. If you can't do this, it will make the online pretty tough.

[editology] "So I will actually concentrate on the 80 pages of Powerpoint that needs to be converted to full screen and overlays in HD.... "

Sounds like fun. I would still suggest once you get your composited HDCam tapes from the online session, to capture to the DVCPRo HD codec. Edit, render, edit, render, tweak , edit edit edit, then when you are done, recapture everything uncompressed for your final graphics render and any cc you might need to. You are shooting @ 29.97 correct?



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editology
Re: Kona LHe -which codec for HDCAM?
on Apr 3, 2007 at 3:57:31 am

Timecode. Yes. of coarse. bnc to bnc. easy. As a backup, I can also sync them to time of day.

Yes. Shooting 29.97.

It seems a waste to edit in dvcpro when all that I need to do is dig the selects and edit with other hi rez animations....

So I am to summize that everybody that works with HDCAM, onlines with 8 or 10 bit uncompressed?

thanks for your help... done for tonight ... pickup tomorrow.

Ron





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JeremyG
Re: Kona LHe -which codec for HDCAM?
on Apr 3, 2007 at 3:41:53 pm

[editology] "Timecode. Yes. of coarse. bnc to bnc. easy. As a backup, I can also sync them to time of day."

Cool, just making sure, some people don't understand.

[editology] "It seems a waste to edit in dvcpro when all that I need to do is dig the selects and edit with other hi rez animations...."

How so?

[editology] "So I am to summize that everybody that works with HDCAM, onlines with 8 or 10 bit uncompressed?"

I am sure there are people that stick with DVCPro HD because it is good enough for them. I always try to move to 10 bit uncompressed (some jobs I don't, but they are rare). THere has been many discussions (and arguments) about whether or not 10 bit is necessary. I find it that it makes better pictures and graphics so I stick with it. It is not easy, it causes some problems, the work takes longer and you need the bandwidth to do it (most importantly a fast Fibre channel raid). If you are doing heavy green screen and compositing, I don't see any other option than 10 bit uncompressed, but perhaps DVC Pro HD is good enough for you, it's up to you and your budget, client, equipment and patience.





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