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Kona LHe and UVW1800

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Tom Miller
Kona LHe and UVW1800
on Mar 22, 2007 at 2:31:03 pm

Checking to see if anyone has run across the following issue: the output from the analog component beta side of our breakout box on our LHe going through our UVW 1800 deck is shifted down by 50 or so pixels. In otherwords, the screen looks a little lower than it should. The output from the SDI side to our monitor is fine. And the output from the analog side bypassing the UVW1800 is also fine. I'm thinking that this is a sync issue with the UVW 1800, that might be unique to this deck. No, we are not feeding it a reference signal, but Kona claims that we don't need one, as long as we set the genlock in the Kona control panel to Free-Run. Well with this deck it seems to have to be set to Video In to make it work at all - but then it is skewed down as described above.

So, wondering if I need to buy a blackburst generator for this deck?? Looking at a Burst SG-2 ($177.99 from Markertech) Any thoughts? Anybody know why the UVW 1800 seems to need reference while other decks don't?

Tom Miller
Big Pictures, Denver
(303) 670-0625

http://www.BigPicturesMedia.com

"Award-Winning Camera Crews and Production Services in the Rocky Mountain West"


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walter biscardi
Re: Kona LHe and UVW1800
on Mar 22, 2007 at 4:17:19 pm

[Tom Miller] "UVW 1800 deck is shifted down by 50 or so pixels. In otherwords, the screen looks a little lower than it should."

This will appear during recording if you don't have the Deck and the Kona referenced together. We run a Horita BSG-50 black burst here and that takes care of it. But honestly, that is not actually recorded to tape, when you play back the tape, you'll see the video is clean.

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
http://www.biscardicreative.com
HD Editorial & Animation for Food Network's "Good Eats"
HD Editorial for "Assignment Earth"

"I reject your reality and substitute my own!" - Adam Savage, Mythbusters


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Bob Cole
Re: Kona LHe and UVW1800
on Mar 23, 2007 at 2:56:00 pm

[walter biscardi] "But honestly, that is not actually recorded to tape, when you play back the tape, you'll see the video is clean."


ditto. Even though I did use reference, I see the same thing and have for years, with my former discreet edit*/Matrox DigiSuite system as well. No worries, and it trains your clients to listen when you say "Trust me, it's fine." (iow, it's a feature, not a bug)


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David Roth Weiss
Re: Kona LHe and UVW1800
on Mar 24, 2007 at 1:48:07 am

Just for the record guys, the only reason that actually "seems" to work is because the UVW-1800 has an internal TBC. In reality you're recording an unstable signal that's then having its time base corrected. I have seen such tapes rejected because of blanking errors. So, even though it may appear okay, don't always believe your eyes.

DRW


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walter biscardi
Re: Kona LHe and UVW1800
on Mar 24, 2007 at 11:33:34 am

[David Roth Weiss] "I have seen such tapes rejected because of blanking errors. So, even though it may appear okay, don't always believe your eyes."

I've been using this machine since 2001 (prior to that I had another one from 1998) and have never had anything rejected that was recorded with it. For the past 6 months we've been delivering a new interstitial series to PBS stations with it, and they haven't rejected anything as well.

I'm not saying what you describe doesn't happen, we've never seen it here with Media 100, CineWave, Aurora and now Kona systems.

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
http://www.biscardicreative.com
HD Editorial & Animation for Food Network's "Good Eats"
HD Editorial for "Assignment Earth"

Read my blog! http://blogs.creativecow.net/WalterBiscardi


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Bob Zelin
Re: Kona LHe and UVW1800
on Mar 24, 2007 at 1:43:02 pm

The UVW-1800 does not act like the Sony PVW-2800 or Sony BVW-75 (all Beta VTR's, all discontinued).
The UVW-1800 ALWAYS wants to see a signal on it's Video Input and Ref Video Input ALL THE TIME, or you will see these shifting problems - even if you are working with analog component video only. If you simply stick a black signal (from the Horita, Burst, etc.) into the Ref Video Input, you will still have issues, if you do not stick the same signal into the Video Input (composite video input) of the VTR. And of course, you want the black signal to also go into the Reference In of your Kona LHe as well, and your Kona Control Panel selected to Ext Ref IN.

A quick trick is to use a small BNC loop cable to loop the video input and the reference input together. This way, when you send in a black signal (or a DVD or VHS, or any other video source) into the Beta 1800, you won't get the shift problem, and won't have to make up any excuses.

YES, you need a black generator with multiple outputs to lock up your professional VTR's and AJA (and blackmagic and AVID) products. And don't forget - the Horita BSG-50 does nothing if you don't terminate the signal with a 75 ohm switch or 75 ohm BNC terminator !

So, lets summarize - you put black into the Video input AND reference input of your Beta 1800, you put black into the Kona LHe reference input, you put your analog component out of your Kona LHe into the Beta 1800 analog component in, and when you monitor this - you will get no shift, in any mode.


Bob Zelin




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Bob Cole
Re: Kona LHe and UVW1800
on Mar 24, 2007 at 1:48:09 pm

Thanks for the information.

[Bob Zelin] "you need a black generator with multiple outputs to lock up your professional VTR's and AJA"

Bob, are you saying you shouldn't loop the same black signal through the whole system?


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Bob Zelin
Re: Kona LHe and UVW1800
on Mar 24, 2007 at 5:55:22 pm

If you are unfortunate to only have one black output available on your black gen, then you are forced to loop the same black around. But modern color black generators from Horita, Sigma, Kramer, and even Burst Electronics sell units with multiple black outputs - these are all the same black signal - and you can easily distribute these to each of your devices that requires a reference input.

Bob Zelin


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Tom Miller
Re: Kona LHe and UVW1800
on Apr 2, 2007 at 2:49:00 am

Thank you everybody for these tips. Great advice. We did end up getting a bb generator with only one output. I'll see if that works, and if not will xchange for one with multiple.

Tom Miller
Big Pictures, Denver
(303) 670-0625

http://www.BigPicturesMedia.com

"Award-Winning Camera Crews and Production Services in the Rocky Mountain West"


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beenice
Re: Kona LHe and UVW1800
on Apr 4, 2007 at 1:26:45 pm

Bob,
Thanks for your advice it was very helpful. Although, I do have some questions still...

I have a UVW1800 and a Kona-LH and bought a Horita BG-50 and hooked up everything exactly the way you described with no luck. After looking through the BG-50's manual, there is a paragraph that states "The BG-50 will not output a blackburst signal if there is no input signal." I then input a signal from one of my DVCAM decks into the BG-50's "video in" and my ref video issue was solved. (monitoring the UVW1800 was synced not off the screen)
Even though it looks as though everything had been solved my UVW1800 still gives me a message that the Ref Signal is not standard and that I need a standard signal.

What would cause this, and why?

Thanks again for your very helpful post!

-B


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Bob Cole
Re: Kona LHe and UVW1800
on Apr 4, 2007 at 2:00:10 pm

[beenice] "bought a Horita BG-50"


Try to return it and buy a Horita BSG-50.

-- Bob C


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beenice
Re: Kona LHe and UVW1800
on Apr 4, 2007 at 2:32:45 pm

...and this would fix this because...

I don't want to buy something else if I don't have any prior knowledge of what it can do..

Little more info?

Bob Zelin?

-B


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Bob Cole
Re: Kona LHe and UVW1800
on Apr 4, 2007 at 2:36:46 pm

[beenice] "Little more info?"

You can compare the two products (BG-50 vs. BSG-50) on this page:

http://www.horita.com/video.htm

I'm not sure you really need the BSG-50, but I think it would prevent your 1800's error message.

Good luck!

-- Bob C



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beenice
Re: Kona LHe and UVW1800
on Apr 4, 2007 at 4:35:27 pm

thanks!
-B


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