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Fusion Connect 101: compressed codecs do not work in Fusion??? Resolve timeline 29.97 fps rendered as Fusion Connect at 24 pfs ???

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Michael McCune
Fusion Connect 101: compressed codecs do not work in Fusion??? Resolve timeline 29.97 fps rendered as Fusion Connect at 24 pfs ???
on Apr 3, 2017 at 7:51:50 am
Last Edited By Michael McCune on Apr 3, 2017 at 7:57:26 am

Fusion Connect seems to have great promise. But immediately we have basic questions.

The base case is a sample 1 minute duration clip, UHD ProRes recorded on Shogun, 29.97 fps.

We want to create several sample Fusion Connect clips using the various offered codecs and compare them with respect to their render speed, disk size, etc.

The choice of codecs offered in the New Fusion Connect clip menu option seems to be a subset of the Resolve Deliver page export codec options. Presumably, then, these selected codes were chosen because they would open and work in the newly created Fusion Connect clip.

But many of the codecs in this list fail in Fusion after the Fusion Connect clip is otherwise successfully created and automatically opened in Fusion. That is, Fusion opens automatically, as expected, with the new Loader source file node and a Saver node. They are RED, however. The console has error messages for the failed codecs that vary only slightly but all seem to say they could not open the first frame.

This experience is similar to the failure of these codecs when exported directly from Resolve and sent to Fusion. So this is not entirely a surprise. But why include them in the Fusion Connect codec list???

The codecs that fail seem to be the compressed versions and the codecs that succeed seem to be the frame based codecs, such as the QT uncompressed, DPX or TIFF RGB flavors.

Does this seem correct to you all??? Is this just the side effect of a new feature which has some bugs or, at least, less than perfect user interface logic???
==========

Also, while the original source UHD is 29.9 fps and is in a 29.97 fps Resolve timeline, the new Fusion Connect clips are all created at 24 pfs.

Didn't see any fps setting in Resolve for Fusion Connect related to fps, and also did not see any fps setting in Fusion other than the Preferences/Global Frame Rate setting and the Composition Frame Rate setting. These new Fusion Connect clips are both set to the expected Preferences fps value of 30 fps. But in fact the new (failed, compressed) Fusion Connect clips are created at 24 fps, as shown by a couple of media file info programs.

(BTW, how can one verify a frame sequence fps setting, such as a TIFF or DPX sequence???)


So, as they say in the 'hood, "What up with that?" Please let me know what I might be missing regarding failed codecs in the Fusion Connect codec list and also the fps rates.

Thanks, all; Mike


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Simon Ubsdell
Re: Fusion Connect 101: compressed codecs do not work in Fusion??? Resolve timeline 29.97 fps rendered as Fusion Connect at 24 pfs ???
on Apr 3, 2017 at 12:01:25 pm

What codecs are not working for you?

Are you on a Mac or a PC?

As to frame rate, when using Fusion Connect the frame rate is fixed by whatever you send from Resolve.

This is different to the usual behaviour of Fusion were you can change the frame rate of the rendered output using the Saver. However, if you are using an image sequence for your output, a frame will always be a frame.

Simon Ubsdell
tokyo productions
hawaiki


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Michael McCune
Re: Fusion Connect 101: compressed codecs do not work in Fusion??? Resolve timeline 29.97 fps rendered as Fusion Connect at 24 pfs ???
on Apr 3, 2017 at 6:13:56 pm

Thanks for the quick reply, Simon.

Yes, doing this work on a PC.

And the Resolve original source video is 29.97 fps and the Resolve time line is 29.97, as it is shown in the Project Settings, the Edit tab media pool info and in the Media tab clip metadata. So that does actually seem to be 29.97.

But the fps for the compressed codecs may not matter, as we see that this anomaly is seen in the failed compressed codecs only, not the successful frame based codecs.

============
FWIW, here is a list of the codecs tested, seeming to show that frame based codecs work but not the compressed codecs.

Love to get a DnX codec to work in Fusion, such as DnX HD 220 10-bit.

1) 1 min QT DnX HD == 1.54 GB; 44 sec encode time == fails in Fusion; _1_min_QT_DnX_HD_v01 cannot get Parameter for Input at time 0 _1_min_QT_DnX_HD_v01 failed at time 0

2) 1 min QT 444 == 3.09 GB; 60 sec encode time == fails in Fusion; V10001_1_min_QT_444 failed at time 0 _1_min_QT_444_v01 cannot get Parameter for Input at time 0_1_min_QT_444_v01 failed at time 0

3) 1 min QT Uncom RGB == 10.4 GB; 55 sec encode time == OK in Fusion

4) 1 min TIFF RGB 8bit == 10.4 GB; 148 sec sec encode time == OK in Fusion

5) 1 min DPX RGB 10bit == 14 GB; 109 sec sec encode time == OK in Fusion
6) 1 min DPX RGBA == 14 GB; 193 sec sec encode time == OK in Fusion

============

Thanks for your thoughts on this, Simon.
Mike


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Simon Ubsdell
Re: Fusion Connect 101: compressed codecs do not work in Fusion??? Resolve timeline 29.97 fps rendered as Fusion Connect at 24 pfs ???
on Apr 3, 2017 at 8:03:51 pm

[Michael McCune] "But the fps for the compressed codecs may not matter, as we see that this anomaly is seen in the failed compressed codecs only, not the successful frame based codecs."

Not sure what anomaly you're talking about there.

As for your codec problem, I'm not the right person to ask as I don't have access to Fusion/Resolve on a PC right now.

Does DNxHD work for you in Resolve?

For working in Fusion, you ideally want to steer clear of compressed codecs unless you're not that concerned about quality.

Simon Ubsdell
tokyo productions
hawaiki


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Michael McCune
Re: Fusion Connect 101: compressed codecs do not work in Fusion??? Resolve timeline 29.97 fps rendered as Fusion Connect at 24 pfs ???
on Apr 4, 2017 at 6:33:59 am

Thanks again, Simon.

Yes, DNx of all flavors work in Resolve, both in and out on my PC.

And the "anomaly" I referred to was simply the fact that only the compressed codecs, the ones that do not open in Fusion, showed 24 fps, not the 29.970 fps of Resolve and the Resolve timeline.

Question: do any compressed codecs import into Fusion, in your experience???

Also, just for my curiosity, please describe your hardware and the typical render fps that you consider normal or adequate. 5 fps??? 25 fps??? 75 fps??? I realize that the node complexity will impact this. But the idea is to understand the general level of render performance is normal or acceptable for your work.

I have the impression that professionals usually run at full-tilt: that is, multiple graphics cards (Quadro or other series???), multiple processors, as many CPU cores as possible and the full complement of ram.

Today I asked Nvidia about any CUDA or OpenCL configuration tips for Resolve and Fusion and they said--and would only say--that GeForce 1080 series cards are not recommended, use Quadro. Just for due diligence, however, one has to recollect that there is almost no comparative benchmarking or other specific info.

One description from an Nvidia engineer a few years ago seemed simply to highlight driver stability rather than performance. This seems to mean that it will never crash under demanding commercial graphics applications, but otherwise they make no claims even to parity regarding performance.

Thanks again, Simon.
Mike


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Simon Ubsdell
Re: Fusion Connect 101: compressed codecs do not work in Fusion??? Resolve timeline 29.97 fps rendered as Fusion Connect at 24 pfs ???
on Apr 4, 2017 at 11:06:36 am

[Michael McCune] "Question: do any compressed codecs import into Fusion, in your experience???"

I'm on a Mac and I frequently use Apple ProRes successfully with Fusion Connect. I haven't had any success with DNxHD however.

Have you tried not creating new media but simply selecting "Use source media" when creating your Fusion Connect clip? Usually there is no good reason to make new media.



As far as performance is concerned, as you know, it's virtually impossible to make this sort of comparison as there are so many variables in play.

Could you describe exactly what you are doing? Maybe there are workflow optimisations that would help.

Simon Ubsdell
tokyo productions
hawaiki


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