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Large Storage solution needed

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Matthew Kasey
Large Storage solution needed
on Aug 30, 2013 at 6:11:57 am

I work at an small ad agency and we are constantly working on old projects as well as ingesting new footage from shoots and such. I do everything in-house, and deliver for broadcast, so I work in full-res prores HQ on almost everything (I work in FCP7). Because of this, I need a very large amount of storage that is always online (I need to recall footage from 3 years ago etc. frequently).

Currently I have 3 rack-mounted Drobo 800fs 's with I believe 16TBs each. The performance is horrible, has always been horrible, and is getting worse as they fill up (two of them are near capacity. Anyway, I may have finally convinced the powers that be to pay for a true editing storage solution, and I wanted to pick the Cow's brain for solutions. I have been checking out the HDPro24 from CalDigit and ActiveRAIDes. Has anyone used these? Do you know of better/cheaper solutions? Any help would be great. Thank you.


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Eric Newbauer
Re: Large Storage solution needed
on Aug 30, 2013 at 3:01:47 pm

Hi Matthew,

I'm sure you'll hear from lots of folks like me, so I'll keep my reply short!

We (SNS) specialize in large shared media storage solutions (a few TB up to PB) for companies that have multiple users editing with FCP, Avid, and such. We have customers and resellers all over the world, and we'd love to hear from you if you think our system would be a good fit for your company.

http://www.studionetworksolutions.com/evo/solutions/

Please feel free to hit us up with any questions.

Eric Newbauer
Studio Network Solutions (SNS)
http://www.studionetworksolutions.com


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Alex Gerulaitis
Re: Large Storage solution needed
on Aug 31, 2013 at 8:27:46 pm

[Matthew Kasey] "I need a very large amount of storage that is always online "

Shared or direct-attached?) What are the ideal capacity, performance and features you are looking for?

[Matthew Kasey] "The performance is horrible"

Drobos in general aren't famous for their performance, but I'd love to hear exactly what was horrible - what were the pain points.

[Matthew Kasey] " I have been checking out the HDPro24 from CalDigit and ActiveRAIDes. Has anyone used these? Do you know of better/cheaper solutions?"

I haven't had first-hand experience with either CalDigits or ActiveRAIDs although some cows here are using them. Both HDPro24 and ActiveRAID appear to be SAN-ready systems, with over $10K for 24-48TB configurations: configuring them for shared access will add quite a few $$$ to the price tag, as well.

If you are OK with direct-attached storage, I'd look at ProAvio and CineRAID SAS expanders: a 64TB 16-bay configuration with redundant power, Areca 1882x, ATTO R680 or one of the mid-range LSI controllers - in the $9-11K range.

If you need shared storage, I'd look at NAS boxes from QNAP and Thecus - purchased through a good video integrator (not through online retailers) - as you may need help configuring and maintaining them.

HTH.


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Jon Schilling
Re: Large Storage solution needed
on Sep 4, 2013 at 4:00:20 pm

Matthew,

I was unable to confirm if CalDigit is still selling the HDPro 24 (I an a former Director of Business Development there). The Proavio IS316JS that Alex recommended.. he also sells, see it here: http://www.proavio.com/index.php/products/post-production/is316js



Jonathan Schilling
Vertical Sales Manager
Proavio Storage by Enhance Technology Inc.
12221 Florence Ave.
Santa Fe Springs, CA 90670
Dir: 562-777-3498
Main: 562-777-3488 X106
Fax: 562-777-3499
Email: jon@proavio.com





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Jon Schilling
Re: Large Storage solution needed
on Sep 6, 2013 at 9:33:44 pm

Paul,

We talked earlier today. A "larger" direct attached system is offered, other than what we discussed, starting at 16TB, see my previous post on the IS316JS in this thread. a 16TB system starts at $6450.00, which is the 16 bay 3U rackmount chassis populated with 16 - 1TB drives and an Areca 1882X card. Formatted in your RAID level of choice & burned in & tested in Mac OSX.

Jonathan Schilling
Vertical Sales Manager
Proavio Storage by Enhance Technology Inc.
12221 Florence Ave.
Santa Fe Springs, CA 90670
Dir: 562-777-3498
Main: 562-777-3488 X106
Fax: 562-777-3499
Email: jon@proavio.com





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Matthew Kasey
Re: Large Storage solution needed
on Sep 4, 2013 at 11:57:58 pm

Thanks everyone for the advice/suggestions. I now have some good places to focus my research.

To answer a few of your questions Alex:

This will be a direct attach solution. I'm here all by my lonesome :(

As far as Drobo performance, there are just a lot of playback problems. Dropped frames, freezing on playback. I work in advertising so I work in mostly 15, 30 and 60 seconds, and I can seldom get through a full spot without freezing or skipping. I previously has a gRAID es storage system on the exact same computer and never had problems.


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Alex Gerulaitis
Re: Large Storage solution needed
on Sep 10, 2013 at 6:43:57 pm

[Matthew Kasey] "This will be a direct attach solution. I'm here all by my lonesome :("

Thanks Matthew. Lonesome is awesome, at least where I stand. :)

Have you finalized on anything; where is your research taking you so far?

[Paul Escamilla] "I prefer to talk to users first, then salespeople. You might be able to figure out why if you think about it."

I am a salesman, for sure; although more of an engineer - like Bob. There's something to be said about playing with a lot of toys from various vendors for a number of years for a living. Not every user is exposed to that. So perhaps salesman's perspective has a value, after a large grain of salt of course.


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Bob Zelin
Re: Large Storage solution needed
on Sep 4, 2013 at 7:25:53 pm

Active RAID is out of business.
You may observe on the left and right of this forum all the banner ads. There are countless wonderful large RAID arrays. I urge you to look for EXPANDABLE drive arrays when you make your purchase.
No matter what you buy, you will run out of room. Products from ProAvio are expandable, products from Cal Digit are NOT.

Bob Zelin

Bob Zelin
Rescue 1, Inc.
maxavid@cfl.rr.com


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Paul Escamilla
Re: Large Storage solution needed
on Sep 6, 2013 at 4:48:10 pm

I'm in the same boat as the OP. I am the entire video department at an ad agency in Manhattan. I am also desperately in need of a large and protected (i.e. RAID) storage system for video files.

Since I am the only editor, it doesn't need to be networked storage.

So, keep the suggestions coming. Thank you!


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Bob Zelin
Re: Large Storage solution needed
on Sep 6, 2013 at 7:04:23 pm

since you are in Manhattan, aren't there countless video dealers, - everyone from Tekserve to B&H Photo that sell exactly what you want ? Have you ever been to B&H Photo ? Have you ever spoken to other ad agencies to ask them what they are using ? Have you ever contacted Yates Parks in NY about doing engineering for your agency (like most of the agencies do) to advise you on what to use for storage ?

Bob Zelin

Bob Zelin
Rescue 1, Inc.
maxavid@cfl.rr.com


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Paul Escamilla
Re: Large Storage solution needed
on Sep 10, 2013 at 4:05:57 pm

Bob,
I prefer to talk to users first, then salespeople. You might be able to figure out why if you think about it.


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Bob Zelin
Re: Large Storage solution needed
on Sep 10, 2013 at 9:45:15 pm

Hi Paul -
yes, I understand that you do not want to be "railroaded" by a salesperson, whose only concern is to get the highest commission on what they sell you. But the good news is that ALL the brands you see here on Creative Cow are all excellent professional products.
So if you chose a storage solution from JMR, Cal Digit, Maxx Digital, Sonnet Technology, ProAvio, Small Tree, or countless others that you see advertise on Creative Cow, you will be getting an excellent product. Every one of these companies offers a nice RAID controller card that works with the Mac computers, and all of them are reliable. The only way to get screwed is to go online, and find the cheapest no name drive you can find, with no name parts, and purchase that (as so many people do). Creative Cow has professional advertisers on their forums, and you will not go wrong with anything that you choose - they all work, they all do the job, they all have good support.

The way you will get screwed is if you wind up with some ultra cheapo drive array from Lacie or the LOWER END products from Other World Computing, etc. Let me be perfectly clear that both Lacie and Other World Computing make PROFESSIONAL drive arrays (OWC makes the Jupiter series for example) that are excellent, and every bit as good as what you see here on these forums, and banner ads. But these products from OWC and Lacie are just as expensive as their competitiors that are on the Cow forums. The cheap tin cans that cost $599 for an 8TB RAID array are completely useless, and you will have nothing but grief from products like these.


I know that you are looking for someone to say "buy this - it's great" - but I can assure you that all of the "good brands" which is pretty much all of them on Creative Cow will work perfectly for you.
If you are looking for specific features of a disk drive array, please state what they are, and I will try to respond to this.

Bob Zelin

Bob Zelin
Rescue 1, Inc.
maxavid@cfl.rr.com


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Paul Escamilla
Re: Large Storage solution needed
on Sep 16, 2013 at 3:06:59 pm

Got it. I'm just a little leery of going to sales-people first due to a bad experience in the past.

It's reassuring to know I can rely on any of the vendors who advertise on the Cow.


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Andrew Johnstone
Re: Large Storage solution needed
on Sep 20, 2013 at 10:56:51 am

I am in similar solution and I have just bumped my head on my data storage ceiling!

I run a small film company and of course we shoot digital. I have a single drive that I use to store rushes and then a scratch disc for FCP where all the files are 'logged and transferred" to.

Neither is a raid drive which is not very secure, but at least I do have two copies of the original content just to be sure, but I'd still like a better solution.

I have a couple of small raids, to which, from time to time I archive older projects, but I am right out of space and need to find a really good solution.

I can see 4/6TB G-TEch raids and LAcies raids for sale for around £450 ($600) here in UK, but I am pretty sure that I will fill a 6TB raid in a few short months, so what to do? The cloud is not really a solution for this much data - too slow.

IS the best solution to walk the drives round to an offsite data centre and dump the material off an pay for data storage?

I'd really like to hera about an affordale solution for all this data...

Andy Johnstone
Wild Dog Limited
film & multimedia production
http://www.wilddogworld.com


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