FORUMS: list search recent posts

Proper storage solution. Promise Pegasus?

COW Forums : Storage

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
Jack Jackson
Proper storage solution. Promise Pegasus?
on Sep 25, 2013 at 4:37:30 pm

Hello,

i'm a freelancer in editing, motion design and compositing working at my home office. My current setup is a 2.3GHz i7 MacBook Pro with a 256GB SSD only for the OS and the applications. To stay flexible I store the projects i'm curently working on on '1TB LaCie Rugged'-Drives:
http://www.cyberport.de/lacie-rugged-mini-usb-3-0-1tb-5400rpm-2-5zoll-3501-...
I get a read-/write-access of ~100MB/s. It's more like a transitional solution but it does it's job. Due to the fact that flexibility won't be a criterion to me in the future, I'm looking forward to the release of the new MacPro and (more important) a decent storage solution to eliminate that bottleneck.

After a lot of research I stuck to the idea of getting a 'Promise Thunderbolt Pegasus RAID-System R6':
http://www.cyberport.de/promise-thunderbolt-pegasus-raid-system-r6-6tb-6-x-...
Of course I'm not compacted to the Pegasus. Any counterproposals would be great.

Promise promises (ho ho) an I/O-performance of 'over 800 MB/s' for the 6-bay-model. I think this is a spec based on a RAID 0-structure. To have a backed storage I probably prefer to set up a RAID 5/RAID 6.
Does anyone have experience with the I/O-performance of a Thunderbolt Pegasus RAID 5?

The 6TB-Model won't fit my needs for a durable solution. So I'd like to configurate the RAID with 6x3TB-Drives. The 18TB-Model is disproportionately more expensive:
http://www.cyberport.de/promise-thunderbolt-pegasus-raid-system-r6-18tb-6-x...
My idea is to buy the 6TB-Model and equip it with other drives on my own. Unfortunatley there is no empty case.
Which HDDs would be the best with respect to noise, performance, longevity and price?

After checking the Pegasus compatibility list, I would go for something like a 'Seagate ST3000DM001':
http://www.cyberport.de/seagate-desktop-hdd-st3000dm001-3tb-7200rpm-64mb-3-...
Is it worth investing in enterprise level hard drives?

Most of the time I will work with 10Bit 422-footage (1080p, 25fps or 50fps) - not ruled out that there will be some 12 Bit 444-footage (2k, 25fps). Applications used are: FCP, Media Composer (would like to have a nice AMA-performance), AFX, Nuke and DaVinci Resolve.
Do you think the Pegasus will fullfill my needs?

One last thought:
Do you think the HDD is dead and I should rather reduce my conception of storage space to build a RAID based on SSDs? Would it be worth to invest in a solution based on Fibre Channel instead of Thunderbolt.

Would be great if someone can share his experience with me.
Thank you in advance!


Return to posts index

Bob Zelin
Re: Proper storage solution. Promise Pegasus?
on Sep 25, 2013 at 7:02:37 pm

Promise will not send you an empty chassis. You spend the money, and they give you the drives. This is a very low cost of entry for a RAID array. The Pegasus comes standard RAID 5. You get about 600MB/sec in this configuration with the R6.

If you ask the question "how can I have something like this for $500 ?" - you can't.

Your limitation in speed is the current Thunderbolt buss. If you are on a budget, you can't beat a price like this. I would avoid Seagate drives, and go for HGST or Western Digital. Dont' buy green drives, they won't work.

Bob Zelin

Bob Zelin
Rescue 1, Inc.
maxavid@cfl.rr.com


Return to posts index

Jack Jackson
Re: Proper storage solution. Promise Pegasus?
on Sep 26, 2013 at 12:49:40 am

Thank you for your revealing response. I appreciate it.

Your limitation in speed is the current Thunderbolt buss.
How do I have to understand this? I think Thunderbolt is capable to insure transmission rates up to 10Gb/s(~1.25GB/s). Aren't the HDDs with it's 600MB/s the limitation? Or do you mean the lag of accessing files via bus per se compared to internal drives? Until now I wasn't able to test the real power of Thunderbolt - only wasted to single 5400rpm-Drives.

If you ask the question "how can I have something like this for $500 ?" - you can't.
When i started thinking about a decent storage solution, I thought into the blue about spending 4000€ (~5500$). The idea of a Low-Cost-Model came in useful when I read about the Pegasus.
Of course I ran intro somethink like the 'A08S-PS':
http://shop.mediav.biz/products/accusys-8-bay-raid-storage-8-16-or-24tb
But I can not see the advantage to invest so much more money. Please correct me if I'm wrong - I would if it is worth it. Anyway, the big advantage of this setup may be the possibility to upgrade to a second A08S-PS in the future and double the performance connected via PCIe HBA Card with Dual Port. Could I also achieve a performance boost by adding another Pegasus via Thunderbolt?

I would avoid Seagate drives, and go for HGST or Western Digital.The problem is that neither HGST nor WD ist on the promise compatibility list. I think using this HDDs will lead to a loss of warranty. Do you have bad experiences with seagate drives?

If you are on a budget, you can't beat a price like this.
Would you give me a hint in which direction I should inform myself without the limitation of a 'low budget'. I'm overwhelmed by the number of good deals I have found in my recherche.


Return to posts index


Bob Zelin
Re: Proper storage solution. Promise Pegasus?
on Sep 26, 2013 at 4:28:49 pm

I work with a lot of drive arrays - drive arrays that are bigger than the Pegasus R6. With a RAID 5 group, you are simply not going to get better performance than 600 MB/sec (unless you do RAID 0, which I never do because of high failure rate of drives today). A Maxx Digital ThunderRaid with 8 drives may do about 700 MB/sec, but only after several seconds (which means nothing, because you can't accept lag upon startup of a sequence that you want to play back). I know it says "10Gb/sec" - but I am telling you what happens in real life.

Promise will NOT sell you an empty chassis. Period. So no matter what I recommend, you can't buy an empty chassis from Promise - warantee or not.

The Promise Pegasus IS low budget. If you are a student, I can empathize with you. But if you are a professional that charges for your work, and makes your living doing this, the Promise Pegasus is a bargain.

bob Zelin

Bob Zelin
Rescue 1, Inc.
maxavid@cfl.rr.com


Return to posts index

Chris Murphy
Re: Proper storage solution. Promise Pegasus?
on Sep 30, 2013 at 2:32:13 am

The difference between the 10Gbps spec and real world experience is due to overhead. The 8b/10b encoding alone causes a 20% hit. Although, I'm surprised at some of the benchmarks cited in this article, even accounting for the fact they're RAID 0, there still should be some overhead for transport, data and file system layers.

Decent article on the subject:
Theoretical vs. Actual Bandwidth: PCI Express and Thunderbolt


An n+1 member RAID 5 array seems like it could have about the same read performance as an n member RAID 0 array, but chunk size and parity computation adds overhead for writes. A particularly good (expensive) controller will have more optimizations for this than average controllers.


Return to posts index

Jon Schilling
Re: Proper storage solution. Promise Pegasus?
on Sep 26, 2013 at 7:15:57 pm

Our customers see speeds of 900MB/s + read/write with this: http://www.proavio.com/index.php/products/desktop/eb800ms

We also sell it without drives.

Jonathan Schilling
Vertical Sales Manager
Proavio Storage by Enhance Technology Inc.
12221 Florence Ave.
Santa Fe Springs, CA 90670
Dir: 562-777-3498
Main: 562-777-3488 X106
Fax: 562-777-3499
Email: jon@proavio.com





Return to posts index


Bob Zelin
Re: Proper storage solution. Promise Pegasus?
on Sep 27, 2013 at 12:20:43 am

our friend wants a Thunderbolt drive array - is the EB800MS a thunderbolt native interface, or is it miniSAS ? That requires a $900 host controller card for a Mac Pro ?

Bob Zelin

Bob Zelin
Rescue 1, Inc.
maxavid@cfl.rr.com


Return to posts index

Jon Schilling
Re: Proper storage solution. Promise Pegasus?
on Sep 27, 2013 at 12:34:17 am

mini-sas & requires a host card.

Jonathan Schilling
Vertical Sales Manager
Proavio Storage by Enhance Technology Inc.
12221 Florence Ave.
Santa Fe Springs, CA 90670
Dir: 562-777-3498
Main: 562-777-3488 X106
Fax: 562-777-3499
Email: jon@proavio.com





Return to posts index

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
© 2017 CreativeCOW.net All Rights Reserved
[TOP]