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order of hookup for 10 g

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Glenn Sakatch
order of hookup for 10 g
on Jan 14, 2017 at 6:07:31 pm

I'm trying to understand the order of how components can be hooked together in a 10g situation (just 2 computers) and at what point adding a device to the mix becomes a "time for a switch and server" situation.

(Bob Zelin can chime in anytime)

some background.

As a small, one man shop, i really don't have a lot of need for shared storage. I run a Windows HP workstation (thunderbolt) with Avid, DS, Resolve, and Fusion as my main programs.

I have a cubex expander with a couple of extra graphics cards, and use both Kona and BM IO hardware, depending on the program.

I have a Pegasys R6 hooked up as my main storage. Everything is wonderful...execpt i'm always looking for it to be better.

Yes producing a ProRes file is a pain in the butt. I play out to a hyperdeck, and it creates a beautiful file...but wouldn't it be nice to just render to that if needed?

I recently saw the Mixing Light tutorials on setting up a "proRes dongle" using a mac as a remote render box.

Since i have 2 Avid dongles, and 2 Resolve dongles, i thought Hmmmmm.
Found a great deal on a 2015 imac locally, and brought it into the room, put Avid on it, put Resolve on it, and started playing with remote rendering, or in the case of Avid, sharing my projects and drives to allow it to do the final render.

I don't usually need to work on 2 projects at once, i just like the idea of one box outputting what the other box built.

I shared my pegasys over the network so the imac sees it, and seems quite happy with that. I know there can be issues trying to access the same media on the same drive at the same time...not what i'm typically trying to do. For now, i just put the pegasys into a read only mode for the imac while i play, and check out the increased render times over a 1 g network.

I have looked at SANmp and am intriged by it as well, and am testing it in this workflow as well.

My question is in trying to hook two computers together, using 10g instead of 1G.

If i bought the Qnap with Thunderbolt and 10 G... and ran the thunderbolt to the imac, and put a 10g card in my PC and ran to that, i believe that would be an attainable solution.

But my brain doesn't like to stop that quickly. I start in on the what ifs.

What if i don't have enough lanes in my PC for a 10g card. (its pretty packed in there with thunderbolt, Kona, minisas, esata, and a 1070 graphics card.

Then i could run the Qnap to the PC with thunderbolt, and use a Thunderbolt to 10g adapter to hook up the qnap to the imac. That would work right?

But what happens to my pegasys? I love my pegasys...hasn't had a hickup in 3 years.
Can i incorporate that as well, or does it just stay as a direct attachment to the main box?

Is that where SANmp can come into play? (i do have a mac mini with a sonnet expander as well if needed to host something else)

If i had SANmp running on the imac, with the pegasys connected to it via thunderbolt, and then the Sonnet thunderbolt to 10 g on the other thunderbolt port, could i then connect that 10 g cable straight into my PC (assuming i can get a 10g card in my pc) and my pc could access the pegasys via 10G? That would eliminate the need for the qnap right now right?

But what if...in the future i need more storage, and i bring in another device...say a Qnap, how does it connect to what i already have...are we now looking at a switch and a server situation?

I'm not worried about a solution for a minimal amount of money, not that money is no object..i'm trying to understand how the pieces could work together.

Can you connect more than 1 device into a direct computer to computer 10g setup?

I know there are plenty of devices out there, advertising on this site that offer shared storage solutions.
I know there are portable solutions and bigger solutions. I'm not desperate to go out and spend money on this idea, but i want an understanding of what is and isn't possible on a direct connection.

What i'm not interested in right now is a big rack with a shared storage bay. My office space is not tiny, but i don't have room for a loud set of drives. (i have an AvidRaid SR that spends most of its time turned off because its just too loud for my current situation)

I know thats a lot of what ifs...but at this stage, its as much about understanding the technology, so that if and when i need it, i'm more prepared.

Glenn


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Bob Zelin
Re: order of hookup for 10 g
on Jan 15, 2017 at 5:36:26 pm

replies from Bob Zelin below (so many questions !!!!!!!)

I'm trying to understand the order of how components can be hooked together in a 10g situation (just 2 computers) and at what point adding a device to the mix becomes a "time for a switch and server" situation.

REPLY - you can't share your Pegasus with 2 computers at the same time, unless you use one computer at a a time (one computer with direct attached to the Pegasus, and that computer becomes the "server" when you want to use the second computer. If you try to access both computers to the same drive at the same time, you will "beach ball" and lock up. That is when you need a server - if you need two computers to access the same drive at the same time.


I recently saw the Mixing Light tutorials on setting up a "proRes dongle" using a mac as a remote render box.

Since i have 2 Avid dongles, and 2 Resolve dongles, i thought Hmmmmm.
Found a great deal on a 2015 imac locally, and brought it into the room, put Avid on it, put Resolve on it, and started playing with remote rendering, or in the case of Avid, sharing my projects and drives to allow it to do the final render.

REPLY - to share Resolve databases, you need to setup the database as per the manual. You can't have AVID access the same bins at the same time, unless you have AVID Storage (or Facilis or EditShare) or Indistore software to trick the AVID into thinking it's connected to an ISIS/Unity. This translates into building a common server for your systems.

I don't usually need to work on 2 projects at once, i just like the idea of one box outputting what the other box built.

I shared my pegasys over the network so the imac sees it, and seems quite happy with that. I know there can be issues trying to access the same media on the same drive at the same time...not what i'm typically trying to do. For now, i just put the pegasys into a read only mode for the imac while i play, and check out the increased render times over a 1 g network.

REPLY - if you setup a server (QNAP, Mac Pro, a pro solution, etc.) then you can access the same media at the same time.



I have looked at SANmp and am intriged by it as well, and am testing it in this workflow as well.

REPLY - this is designed to turn one computer into the server (iSCSI target) and your workstations talk to the Target server, like a Mac Pro.



My question is in trying to hook two computers together, using 10g instead of 1G.

REPLY - sure you can. It works fine. But the same rules apply. You can put 10G card on one computer, and thunderbolt to 10G on your iMac, and connect the two with Cat 6 cabling. This works fine. But this is for data transfer. Or if you want to access the "server" (one of your computers with the storage) from the client (the one without the Pegasus).
The minute you try to access the media from both computers at the same time, you will have trouble. But for data transfer, or working isolated on the second computer from the first computer, without having to unhook the drives - yes, this works great.


If i bought the Qnap with Thunderbolt and 10 G... and ran the thunderbolt to the imac, and put a 10g card in my PC and ran to that, i believe that would be an attainable solution.

REPLY - it sure would - especially if you got the TVS-871T. This has two built in 10G ports and four built in 1G ports. So the QNAP IS the server, and you can do exactly what you want. True shared storage for very little money. Want to run both AVID Media Composers at the same time - just put Indistore software on your computers, and it all works. (just the Media Composer clients, not the QNAP).


But my brain doesn't like to stop that quickly. I start in on the what ifs.

What if i don't have enough lanes in my PC for a 10g card. (its pretty packed in there with thunderbolt, Kona, minisas, esata, and a 1070 graphics card.

REPLY - then find a slot for it. Get an ATTO NT11 card for your PC, or a Sonnet Presto 10GbaseT card. If you don't have a slot for it (get rid of the miniSAS) - then you can't have 10G


Then i could run the Qnap to the PC with thunderbolt, and use a Thunderbolt to 10g adapter to hook up the qnap to the imac. That would work right?

REPLY - do not use the QNAP with Thunderbolt - even the 871T. Use the built in 10G Cat 6 ports, and everything will perform wonderfully. You will be disappointed with Thunderbolt networking.

But what happens to my pegasys? I love my pegasys...hasn't had a hickup in 3 years.
Can i incorporate that as well, or does it just stay as a direct attachment to the main box?

REPLY - it stays at direct attached storage to the main box. If you get the QNAP. Or you can build a Mac Pro server and use the Pegasus. I can tell you that if it is the R6 and not the R8, you will have limited performance for 2 computers using it at the same time.



Is that where SANmp can come into play? (i do have a mac mini with a sonnet expander as well if needed to host something else)

REPLY - you build a Mac Pro server (or Mac Mini server which is not that powerful). You hookup your Pegasus to the Mac Mini, and put the SANmp iSCSI Target on the Mac Pro (with it's dongle). Now you put iSCSI initiator from SANmp client onto your two computers. It's up to you if you want to do this.


If i had SANmp running on the imac, with the pegasys connected to it via thunderbolt, and then the Sonnet thunderbolt to 10 g on the other thunderbolt port, could i then connect that 10 g cable straight into my PC (assuming i can get a 10g card in my pc) and my pc could access the pegasys via 10G? That would eliminate the need for the qnap right now right?

REPLY - you are making all of this very confusing. This is a simple setup.

But what if...in the future i need more storage, and i bring in another device...say a Qnap, how does it connect to what i already have...are we now looking at a switch and a server situation?

REPLY - if you have a 10G switch, you simply plug in additional servers (like the QNAP) into your 10G switch, and now everyone can access everything that you own.


I'm not worried about a solution for a minimal amount of money, not that money is no object..i'm trying to understand how the pieces could work together.

REPLY - simple overview of every network in the world. Server - Switch - client computers. That's it.
This could be QNAP - switch - client computers. And of course, for just 2 or 3 computers, the QNAP has multiple built in ports, so you could avoid the switch. Check out the price of the TVS-871T-16G. It's pretty damn cheap.


Can you connect more than 1 device into a direct computer to computer 10g setup?

REPLY - if you have 2 ports on the 10G card, then yes, you can plug in two client computers to this.


I know there are plenty of devices out there, advertising on this site that offer shared storage solutions.
I know there are portable solutions and bigger solutions. I'm not desperate to go out and spend money on this idea, but i want an understanding of what is and isn't possible on a direct connection.

REPLY - you can always contact me ! And I don't sell a damn thing.


What i'm not interested in right now is a big rack with a shared storage bay. My office space is not tiny, but i don't have room for a loud set of drives. (i have an AvidRaid SR that spends most of its time turned off because its just too loud for my current situation)

REPLY - check out the size of the small QNAP. It's silent and tiny (and cheap).


Bob Zelin

I know thats a lot of what ifs...but at this stage, its as much about understanding the technology, so that if and when i need it, i'm more prepared.

Glenn

Bob Zelin
Rescue 1, Inc.
bobzelin@icloud.com


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Glenn Sakatch
Re: order of hookup for 10 g
on Jan 15, 2017 at 6:07:41 pm

Thanks for all that Bob, i know it was a bit of a mess of questions.

I think the qnap will be my solution.

I hadn't heard of Indistore, i'll have to look into that.
Like i said, its just me, and i don't really have enough hands to try to access the same project at the same time, (although it has happened where i forgot to exit the project on one box, and you end up with a conflicted copy of the project inside avid).

I appreciate you taking the time to clarify everything.

Glenn


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