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which potential solution would you support?

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Tim Dowse
which potential solution would you support?
on May 14, 2013 at 2:41:01 pm

Hey folks...

I've written about this in other posts, but it seems like there are a couple of potential solutions to the biggest practical CC issue that most people have - namely they will lose access to projects if they stop subscribing.

If people agree with one of the following, share with us all which one, and then write to adobe and make a feature request. I'm using this forum to see if there's momentum behind one or other suggestion.

My suggestion is a "loyalty" or "opt out" scheme, that would work as follows:
If you continuously subscribe to CC for, say, 5 years, then at that point you are allowed to opt out of the subscription and keep the software you have at that time on a perpetual license. You can keep subscribing if you choose, and as long as you have at least 5 years of continuous subscription, you always have the "opt out" option. That way Adobe has the incentive to keep developing, to stop people taking the opt-out option. And subscribers have the incentive to keep subscribing because they will keep their loyalty status only with continuous subscription, and they will keep getting Adobe's awesome updates, safe in the knowledge that the opt-out is there for them should things go t*ts up. A win-win?

An alternative suggestion that others have made is a "buy-out" option. Presumably that would be something along the lines of, at any time, you have the option to "buy-out" the current version you have on a perpetual license. I would imagine Adobe's price for a buy-out would be pretty high (perhaps $3k?).

A hybrid of this and the loyalty scheme is that the buy-out price gets lower the longer you've been a subscriber. I suspect Adobe won't like the buy-out option as much because it puts them back to where they were with irregular income.

FWIW, I think most folk's fears are exaggerated. BUT I like Adobe software, and I want the community to keep using it. So I'd like to see a solution to keep everyone (almost?!) happy.

So, would you be happy with one of these? With any?


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: which potential solution would you support?
on May 14, 2013 at 3:42:16 pm

[Tim Dowse] "My suggestion is a "loyalty" or "opt out" scheme, that would work as follows:
If you continuously subscribe to CC for, say, 5 years, then at that point you are allowed to opt out of the subscription and keep the software you have at that time on a perpetual license."


This one. It fixes nearly everything in one go - Adobe customers are heavily incentivised to roll over the subscription every year for half a decade. But the Adobe customers know that they have some measure of control - and also they should feel very comfortable moving forward from year 5 - because they have exactly the same fallback security in 2018 that we have now with CS6 - an archived, owned iteration of the software in reserve. Would people conceivably step off the merrygoround in 2018? its possible, but this scenario gives adobe half a decade with secure subscriber revenue to figure out a setup as compelling as the contents of CS Next. Adobe have no problem making software that we would punch each other to get our hands on - they just need to inject a modicum of good faith trust into this. Inasmuch as we are being asked to trust adobe hugely here - they have to have some faith that we will stick around, we all love the products for god's sake.

You have to feel its not that giant a concession - and it would put the fire out instantly.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Dave LaRonde
Re: which potential solution would you support?
on May 14, 2013 at 4:28:27 pm

[Tim Dowse] "So, would you be happy with one of these? With any?"

I like the idea of a heretofore-unknown competitor who launches an affordable suite of applications sold with a perpetual license, virtually identical in function to Adobe's but different enough to avoid lawsuits, that can open Adobe project files and Adobe documents.

They may even be more operator-friendly. They may even feature seamless integration among applications. Considering many of Adobe's hallmark applications came from different developers, and considering Adobe's penchant for bolting new features onto a core of almost-outdated legacy code, it wouldn't be impossible.

Blue sky? You bet! Hopeful to a fault? It's extremely likely.

However, I can't help but think that somewhere on the planet, a group of highly-talented software wizards is in close contact with similar groups, just waiting for late July, licking its collective chops to cash in on a once-in-a-lifetime software windfall and continued hand-over-fist income.

Dave LaRonde
Former Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Tim Dowse
Re: which potential solution would you support?
on May 14, 2013 at 4:44:33 pm

[Dave LaRonde] I like the idea of a heretofore-unknown competitor who launches an affordable suite of applications sold with a perpetual license

This is of course great, but not something one could propose to Adobe. I'm hoping (probably naively) that enough feature requests that ask for the exact same thing might prompt a re-think. Especially if the feature request is something that avoids a massive climb-down from them, but regains the confidence of the consumer (which of course I think my suggestion does :-D ).

Would neither of the initial solutions appease you in any way? Or is it too late? Did Adobe just throw away any good faith they had, never to be regained? I'm not trying to be adversarial. I'm just wondering if there is any way you would be happy buying Adobe products again.


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Dave LaRonde
Re: which potential solution would you support?
on May 14, 2013 at 5:03:08 pm

Not really.

Steve Forde, who runs Adobe's After Effects division, has already responded to a query I made by writing, "Ultimately, you as our customer are the final judge and will vote with your wallet."

It sounds as if in Adobe's mind, the die is cast and they have no intention of turning back unless they encounter a big revenue drop as a result of their action. I don't think a feature request is going to cut it.

Dave LaRonde
Former Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Chris Borjis
Re: which potential solution would you support?
on May 14, 2013 at 5:09:00 pm

I'm in favor of RENT to OWN that someone mentioned in another thread.

When Creative Cloud version 2 comes out, you get a perpetual license
for the old (june 17th 2013) version that requires no authentication from then on.

That seems a very fair compromise.


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Tim Dowse
Re: which potential solution would you support?
on May 14, 2013 at 5:17:36 pm

As I see it, rent-to-own as you have stated it here just gives them an incentive not to innovate. If they know you can jump ship as soon as they update, they won't update.

With the loyalty suggestion I've made, you will have the choice to OWN when you become a loyal member. So it's a version of rent-to-own but with incentives on both sides to keep the relationship going.


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Tim Vaughan
Re: which potential solution would you support?
on May 14, 2013 at 6:42:43 pm

Personally, I don't see what they don't off what Maxon C4d (and others) do. Buy the damn software, the pay for a yearly "subscription/service agreement" to update. For c4d Studio, it's $650/year. I own the software, they provide the updates, it's "cloud based" in that you boot up, a splash screen appears asking if I want to upgrade to whatever new thing is there.
But that would just make sense and be too damn easy... I guess they wouldn't have a permanent hold on you for your lifetime, and I guess that's just not good enough. But that's just my opinion...

Tim
Apple XRAID, XServe, 2008 2x3 GHz Quad-Core MacPro, Macbook Pro, XSAN, Dell Studio xps PC's
FCP Studio (7), AVID Media Composer, Adobe Production Premium, Maxon Cinema 4d, AJA Kona 3, Flanders Scientific Monitors, Panasonic HPX250's, Kessler Crane, Glidecam.....
Beer fridge fully loaded.


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Tim Dowse
Re: which potential solution would you support?
on May 14, 2013 at 7:41:57 pm

[Tim Vaughan] Buy the damn software, the pay for a yearly "subscription/service agreement" to update.

That's basically the same as the old system, except that you pay for upgrades over time rather than a lump. That would be a massive climbdown from Adobe, and seeing how heavily they've gone all in for the subscription-based service, I doubt they'd go for it.

On the other hand, I could see them marketing a potential "loyalty" scheme like it's some great new feature they thought up ("we want to reward loyal customers etc."), thus avoiding a complete u-turn, but appeasing a large number of concerned potential users.

It's a compromise.

Plus, one genuine advantage of their current CC model, which shouldn't be ignored, is the incredibly low cost of entry - a great way to grow the customer base compared to the older high up-front cost model.


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Rainer Schubert
Re: which potential solution would you support?
on Jun 4, 2013 at 8:35:36 am

You´re not allone. My sight on that is the same.


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Paul Neumann
Re: which potential solution would you support?
on May 14, 2013 at 5:14:36 pm

I think Adobe has provided a really good solution already. If there's some kind of subscription packages they add (Production, Web, etc.) then all the better for some I suppose. Gives me a headache to think how they'd divide up all the other things outside of the apps, but that can be their task if they decide to go that way. Other than that, I say get used to it. Perpetual licenses are going away. Nothing you can do about it. The plan in place is many years ahead of where we are right now. Stop using Adobe if you feel you must (whether in statement or economics).

The Creative Cloud is a great and transformative way of running their business. They've built a lot of things into it to ease your transition to it. They've given you a lot of fallback options as well. They are focused on things none of us have even thought of.

The Creative Cloud Subscription is the solution I will support.


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Tim Dowse
Re: which potential solution would you support?
on May 14, 2013 at 5:24:57 pm

[Paul Neumann] I think Adobe has provided a really good solution already.

Many agree with you, including me. But what I've suggested doesn't stop us supporting the Creative Cloud does it. What it might do is help others who are feeling more wary buy into the service with more confidence. So it's potentially a win for Cloud supporters, a win for Cloud skeptics, and a win for Adobe.

Just trying to spread the love around :-)


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Morten Ranmar
Re: which potential solution would you support?
on May 14, 2013 at 5:58:59 pm

Now if I was Adobe, I would consider some kind of loyalty program, to keep customers happily bound to the Creative Cloud.

Imagine if they offer reduced costs en par with loyally staying on the CC? For example for each year I keep the subscription going, I get a cost reduction of 5% - 10% from my former price. If I quit the subscription model, I will have to start earning my loyalty bonus from the beginning again.

Sounds like a good business model - and even though it doesn't solve all CC problems, it does give us some kind of credit...

- No Parking Production -

2 x Finalcut Studio3, 2 x Prod. bundle CS6, 2 x MacPro, 2 x ioHD, Ethernet File Server w. X-Raid.... and FCPX on trial


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Greg Andonian
Re: which potential solution would you support?
on May 14, 2013 at 6:20:42 pm

I posted my thoughts on this in another thread:

http://forums.creativecow.net/thread/378/786

______________________________________________
"Up until here, we still have enough track to stop the locomotive before it plunges into the ravine... But after this windmill it's the future or bust."


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Chris Pettit
Re: which potential solution would you support?
on May 31, 2013 at 3:01:55 am

Tim, great suggestion I am very open to the idea of an opt-out option in return for subscribing for a minimum period of years. Seems like it would be a great compromise. I sure hope Adobe is considering these options.

And frankly, as long as I have a parachute later in my career, Adobe might keep people like me much longer than the 5 years I'll bet. As long as I have the security of knowing I'm not signing my own death warrant, I would most likely migrate to CC


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Dale Hersh
Re: which potential solution would you support?
on Jun 6, 2013 at 6:38:55 am

Five years is way to long...the cost of an upgrade to CS6 was should equate to the time frame.


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