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Big Fixes for CC now subject to marketing schedule?

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Lance Moody
Big Fixes for CC now subject to marketing schedule?
on Oct 1, 2014 at 4:25:06 pm

CC2014 has some nasty bugs for those of us working on it for living.

As an example, two horrible bugs are seen in After Effects. Use of Red footage is very unreliable and quite slow--often your renders will be downrezzed below SD. The workaround does work much of the time but not always, resulting in hours of lost rendering. 2014 broke the link between AE and C4D in Cineware--the two apps cannot share scene data. Adobe's solution is to use the old version of AE. These bugs (and many more) have plagued us for 4+ months!

The team appears to be doing a great work improving the suite but unfortunately since the release of 2014, it seems that bug fixes are tied into marketing opportunities rather than being delivered as relief to users.

The upcoming October release is a perfect example...many many big fixes but we apparently have to wait until the proper marketing moment to get them. Adobe hasn't said just when the new update will be released but since AdobeMax is next week, I would guess that the updates and bug fixes are waiting until then.

It seems working to help the user base takes a back seat to marketing photo ops. Supposedly the CC model would allow the team to push out quick fixes and improve the user experience. In reality, users already feeding the machine can swing in the wind for months--Adobe already has our money.

Lance



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Ryan Holmes
Re: Big Fixes for CC now subject to marketing schedule?
on Oct 1, 2014 at 4:40:04 pm

[Lance Moody] "The upcoming October release is a perfect example...many many big fixes but we apparently have to wait until the proper marketing moment to get them. "

Or maybe the updates aren't ready yet? Maybe they're still working on correcting the code?

Ryan Holmes
http://www.ryanholmes.me
@CutColorPost


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Lance Moody
Re: Big Fixes for CC now subject to marketing schedule?
on Oct 1, 2014 at 4:52:53 pm

Yes...the entire list of bug fixes will all magically get solved at a precise date that just happens to coincide with AdobeMax. Seems legit.

Lance



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Dave LaRonde
Re: Big Fixes for CC now subject to marketing schedule?
on Oct 1, 2014 at 5:20:25 pm

[Lance Moody]: "Yes...the entire list of bug fixes will all magically get solved at a precise date that just happens to coincide with AdobeMax. Seems legit."

I'm normally a BIG Adobe cynic, but in this case I'm witholding judgement until the date arrives.
If it happens as you predict -- or even within a couple of days -- they'll be caught with their pants down.

Who knows, they could just announce a target date for the fix.

Dave LaRonde
Promotion Producer
KGAN (CBS) & KFXA (Fox) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Lance Moody
Re: Big Fixes for CC now subject to marketing schedule?
on Oct 6, 2014 at 2:07:29 pm

Hi Dave,

So today is the AdobeMax keynote...and there is the big software release, right on time.

Lance



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Michael Hendrix
Re: Big Fixes for CC now subject to marketing schedule?
on Oct 6, 2014 at 3:25:43 pm

So, being the devil's advocate, I would think the release is just like any project we work on. The team is given a date to have everything flushed out by and that date was probably today.

I know if someone says you have until Friday, I will work on tweaking, testing, etc until Thursday at midnight.

If they held the release a few days, no big deal. If it was ready four weeks ago, then that would be a problem.



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Gary Huff
Re: Big Fixes for CC now subject to marketing schedule?
on Oct 6, 2014 at 4:15:18 pm

[Michael Hendrix] "If they held the release a few days, no big deal. If it was ready four weeks ago, then that would be a problem."

Yeah, there would need to be some evidence things were being intentionally held back for there to be much of a problem (apparently, those not paying for Creative Cloud are the ones making the biggest stink).


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Lance Moody
Re: Big Fixes for CC now subject to marketing schedule?
on Oct 6, 2014 at 4:25:20 pm
Last Edited By Lance Moody on Oct 6, 2014 at 5:05:55 pm

The problem with Red footage has been known about for months as have many other bugs. I certainly am a cc subscriber and supporter. What several responses here miss is that we sem to be on a schedule where bug fixes are tied to marketing,...if this works for you then, great! I think that bug fixes (particularly odious ones like the Red footage problem) should be delivered asap to support users rather than marketing.

By the way the bugs were mentioned as fixed in this update quite a few weeks ago. I understand that sometimes things just work out so you must wait for one feature to release another....but tying all that now some marketing event just makes bug fixes take longer and helps the user base not at all.

Lance



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Tim Wilson
Re: Big Fixes for CC now subject to marketing schedule?
on Oct 6, 2014 at 5:40:45 pm

It's not an indictment of Adobe that, at an Adobe event whose sole purpose is to show what's new from Adobe, Adobe announces something new.

It would crazy if they DIDN'T. That one HAS to be a lock. New releases at Adobe Max, every single time, no excuses. If you throw a party, you damn well better have cake.

More broadly, I don't think it's sinister to time releases to coincide with trade cycles. Those are events where people are naturally asking, "What's new?"

The only question is whether lining up with some industry cycles means that Adobe is unable to fulfill the promise of more frequent and more nimble updates by not having to turn the crank on every application every 12-18 months.

Speaking strictly as a reader of the COW forums, it appears that, across the forums, people are largely feeling that the updates have indeed been coming at a sprightly pace.


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Lance Moody
Re: Big Fixes for CC now subject to marketing schedule?
on Oct 6, 2014 at 5:47:27 pm
Last Edited By Lance Moody on Oct 6, 2014 at 5:56:43 pm

You would think that. However, I believe the only update for the video apps since the 2014 release was one that dealt with trial purchasers...that update disastrously destroyed user prefs for regular users and another update fixing that new bug was then released. I think that is the only thing in about 6 months on the video side until today.

On the other hand, numerous bugs were acknowledged (but not fixed) until today. Those of us working with Red files have suffered through a sometimes hellish bug that could waste hours of rendering.

Doesn't seem very nimble.

Edit...there was an update to Media Encoder since the 2014 release.

Lance



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Dave LaRonde
Re: Big Fixes for CC now subject to marketing schedule?
on Oct 6, 2014 at 6:03:19 pm

Oh, now look at this, why dontcha:
https://forums.creativecow.net/readpost/2/1056075

Dave LaRonde
Promotion Producer
KGAN (CBS) & KFXA (Fox) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Dave LaRonde
Re: Big Fixes for CC now subject to marketing schedule?
on Oct 7, 2014 at 9:39:10 pm

Well, yesterday's AE update seems to be greeted with mostly negative reviews.
A lot of people find the new color scheme annoying and unreadable.
The Knoll Unmult freebie plugin seems to send AE south.
And here's something of interest: the update seems to have been released with a pretty substantial list of Known Issues.

You'd think they could have blown off an inconsequential, cosmetic thing like a color scheme change to focus on clearing up some of those known issues.

Dave LaRonde
Promotion Producer
KGAN (CBS) & KFXA (Fox) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Walter Soyka
Re: Big Fixes for CC now subject to marketing schedule?
on Oct 8, 2014 at 12:53:59 am

[Dave LaRonde] "The Knoll Unmult freebie plugin seems to send AE south."

Until the real Adobe fix arrives (they estimate mid-October [link]), I've developed keen-UnUnMult [link], a script to help users try to work around this issue. It replaces every instance of UnMult in a project with another unmultiplication method.

Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive [twitter]   |   RenderBreak [blog]   |   Profile [LinkedIn]


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Ryan Holmes
Re: Big Fixes for CC now subject to marketing schedule?
on Oct 6, 2014 at 6:37:47 pm

[Lance Moody] "However, I believe the only update for the video apps since the 2014 release was one that dealt with trial purchasers...that update disastrously destroyed user prefs for regular users and another update fixing that new bug was then released. I think that is the only thing in about 6 months on the video side until today."

CC 2014 didn't release until June 18. So we've only been using this software for about 3.5 months. With the 2014 release there's been several "headline" improvements; while not all of them may be applicable to your particular workflow they do scratch the itch of many, many subscribers (myself included). Things like editing AE text within Premiere, Masking and Tracking, Consolidate and Transcode, better support for RAW formats (Canon, Sony, Blackmagic, Convergent Design, CinemaDNG, ARRI, etc.), additional optimization for OpenCL and CUDA, and on and on.

http://blogs.adobe.com/premierepro/2014/04/thenextpremiereproccrelease.html

Specifically, Premiere has seen an ever-growing list of features since the transition to CC. Just in this year alone (2014) they've added some significant feature enhancements:
http://blogs.adobe.com/premierepro/2014/09/ppro-cc-2014-next.html
http://blogs.adobe.com/premierepro/2014/10/premiere-pro-cc-2014-1-release.h...

More to your original question: so if a bug was pointed out to them in July, how fast do you expect them to patch it? What's reasonable? Technically the bug you're struggling with got repaired (presuming today's patch solves the problem!) within 3 months. I'm not implying that's fast, but neither do I think it slow. It appears that as consumers we've all come to expect software coding to speed up. I believe I'm of this mindset as well that because of how technology and the internet work I should get things faster and faster. I seem to have less and less patience for things like code writing, testing, compatibility testing...I just want them to push the goods out.

I guess I'm wondering what the balance between speed and efficiency looks like for a predominantly software-based company. How much time should be given or expected between major updates (currently it's every year), minor updates (currently between 3-6 months), or bug fixes (every 3 months?)? I think CC users have a predetermined (though not always stated) timeframe and when/if Adobe doesn't match up leaves the customer base a bit perturbed. What should Adobe do to avoid this?

[Tim Wilson] "The only question is whether lining up with some industry cycles means that Adobe is unable to fulfill the promise of more frequent and more nimble updates by not having to turn the crank on every application every 12-18 months."

I think this is a great insight. I've wondered the same thing for other companies that get locked into a particular release cycle - Apple, Autodesk, Blackmagic, etc. At certain points they become victims of their own success trying to release new features at the events where everybody wants to see new features (WWDC, NAB, IBC). Will this mitigate Adobe being able to deliver feature enhancements during the year (it didn't in 2013 as October 2013 saw a big update for CC video apps, so far in 2014 we're seeing a refining of the features released in June)? Time will tell...

Ryan Holmes
http://www.ryanholmes.me
@CutColorPost


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Lance Moody
Re: Big Fixes for CC now subject to marketing schedule?
on Oct 6, 2014 at 6:50:35 pm

Ryan...

2014 released on April 1,2014.

Does that change anything for you? Would a year later change anything?

Lance



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Andrew Kimery
Re: Big Fixes for CC now subject to marketing schedule?
on Oct 6, 2014 at 6:54:24 pm

[Lance Moody] "2014 released on April 1,2014.

Does that change anything for you? Would a year later change anything?"


There might have been a preview in April, but CC 2014 didn't release until June.


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Lance Moody
Re: Big Fixes for CC now subject to marketing schedule?
on Oct 6, 2014 at 7:13:48 pm

Hmm..actually no, I think the video apps were all updated In April...that seems to be what all the blog entries show,
Am I still getting all this wrong. My memory is that the video apps were updated prior to the actual 2014 release,



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Andrew Kimery
Re: Big Fixes for CC now subject to marketing schedule?
on Oct 6, 2014 at 7:18:28 pm

[Lance Moody] "Hmm..actually no, I think the video apps were all updated In April...that seems to be what all the blog entries show,
Am I still getting all this wrong. My memory is that the video apps were updated prior to the actual 2014 release,"


According to Wikipedia Adobe PPro 7.2.2 was released in April but PPro 8.0 (aka CC2014) wasn't released until June.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adobe_Premiere_Pro


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Ryan Holmes
Re: Big Fixes for CC now subject to marketing schedule?
on Oct 6, 2014 at 6:59:13 pm

[Lance Moody] "2014 released on April 1,2014."

I think we to double check that. I think you're looking at the announcement of CC 2014, which was in April around the time of NAB. The actual release, when you and I could download it, wasn't until June of this year. Remember that CC 2013 released in June of 2013. A year later CC 2014 was delivered.

CC 2014 was announced in April, delivered on June 18 to users:
https://forums.creativecow.net/readpost/376/495
http://blogs.adobe.com/creativecloud/creative-cloud-for-2014-is-here/
http://blogs.adobe.com/jkost/2014/06/installing-the-2014-release-of-creativ...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adobe_Creative_Cloud

Ryan Holmes
http://www.ryanholmes.me
@CutColorPost


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Lance Moody
Re: Big Fixes for CC now subject to marketing schedule?
on Oct 6, 2014 at 7:05:46 pm
Last Edited By Lance Moody on Oct 6, 2014 at 7:27:42 pm

see my above reply...I think April 1 is correct...some of the the video apps were updated separately and earlier, probably to coincide with NAB.

Maybe just After Effects?

See here:

http://blogs.adobe.com/aftereffects/2014/04/new-changed-after-effects-cc-20...


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Ryan Holmes
Re: Big Fixes for CC now subject to marketing schedule?
on Oct 6, 2014 at 7:27:26 pm

[Lance Moody] "see my above reply...I think April 1 is correct...the video apps were updated separately and earlier, probably to coincide with NAB."

According to Al Mooney, CC 2014 was previewed at NAB, and released in June (see screen shot).



My thinking is that the AE blog you're referencing was updated after CC 2014 came out, so anybody hitting that page would be easily directed to go and download the latest update. Adobe has not treated the video apps separately from the other CC apps in the 2.5 years of CC so far. They have all been updated together at major version releases. See my links above for Adobe's actual press releases on June 18 for CC 2014.

Ryan Holmes
http://www.ryanholmes.me
@CutColorPost


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Lance Moody
Re: Big Fixes for CC now subject to marketing schedule?
on Oct 6, 2014 at 7:53:59 pm

Yes, I am not sure anymore...going to have to check this when I get home with reliable internet.
If it is June for After Effects, then I feel my comments were too harsh. If it was April, then I feel the opposite.


Lance



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Lance Moody
Re: Big Fixes for CC now subject to marketing schedule?
on Oct 7, 2014 at 2:01:59 am

Well, it is very confusing looking at those Adobe blog posts dated 4/1/2014. But I think that I AM incorrect and that June was the correct month for the 2014 update for all apps.

That does temper my opinion...I suppose things did seem so much worse living for 3 months with the Red footage bug. But I have to say that we are still seeing rapid progress and my hat is off to the Adobe team--especially the guys who help out here all the time.

I think Adobe is doing an excellent job and I hope that they continue their progress.

I still would rather see bug fixes ASAP and not tied to marketing events, if at all possible.

Thanks for the corrections and thanks also guys for helping me to see things a different way. And I look forward to testing to see if the bug really is gone!

Lance



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Andrew Kimery
Re: Big Fixes for CC now subject to marketing schedule?
on Oct 7, 2014 at 5:10:20 am

[Lance Moody] "I still would rather see bug fixes ASAP and not tied to marketing events, if at all possible."

I agree that whenever possible bug fixes should be rolled out as soon as they are ready and have passed internal QC.


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Tim Wilson
Re: Big Fixes for CC now subject to marketing schedule?
on Oct 7, 2014 at 5:41:22 am

[Andrew Kimery] "I agree that whenever possible bug fixes should be rolled out as soon as they are ready and have passed internal QC."

You know what, I breezed right past the subject line. I was talking about feature releases. Sorry about that.


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Lance Moody
Re: Big Fixes for CC now subject to marketing schedule?
on Oct 7, 2014 at 5:51:51 am

It didn't help that I posted as "big" when I meant "bug"--dang iPad!



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walter biscardi
Re: Big Fixes for CC now subject to marketing schedule?
on Oct 10, 2014 at 12:57:18 am

[Tim Wilson] "Speaking strictly as a reader of the COW forums, it appears that, across the forums, people are largely feeling that the updates have indeed been coming at a sprightly pace."

The dot updates are coming pretty fast and furious compared to how it used to be that's for sure. The latest updates are flipping amazing with a lot of little things in there and some really nice interface updates.

Certainly don't feel like we're "twisting in the wind" waiting on Adobe by any means. As with any updates, there are bugs in there, but I've yet to install any update from any software manufacturer that doesn't have some issues. Impossible to test for every situation until the software gets out there.

Cloud has been awesome for us.

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Editor, Colorist, Director, Writer, Consultant, Author, Chef.
HD Post and Production
Biscardi Creative Media

Craft and Career Advice & Training from real Working Creative Professionals

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Mads Nybo Jørgensen
Re: Big Fixes for CC now subject to marketing schedule?
on Oct 7, 2014 at 9:13:51 am

Hey Lance,

Just this morning did a massive update across several Adobe CC products. My 4K premiere Pro project (NOT Red) is looking good and I am straight back at work with no noticeable delays - apart from having to "update" the project file, which was a quick save.

However, if your problems are not fixed with this update, then you should rightfully so ask Adobe when they will be fixed. After all, they have shown that they are now able to release updates and bug-fixes at will, rather than to a carefully prepared 1/2 year or so schedule.

All the Best
Mads

@madsvid, London, UK
Check out my other hangouts:
Twitter: @madsvid
http://mads-thinkingoutloud.blogspot.co.uk


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