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What Creative Cloud means to the University I work at

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Todd VanSlyck
What Creative Cloud means to the University I work at
on May 8, 2013 at 7:47:49 pm

I must preface this by saying this is the situation as of now.
I work at a private, not-for-profit University that teaches Digital Multimedia. We're not a gigantic school by any means (the University of Northwestern Ohio). We have one classroom with about 30 computers that require Premiere, After Effects, etc.
Before CC, Adobe charged the deeply discounted price of $78/yr per computer. If you don't already know, most software companies give great discounts to Universities and college students.
That has now increased to $480/yr per computer. Our IT guy who handles this has been on the phone with our Adobe rep for the past two days trying to sort all this out. It seems, as of right now, this is the final word.

Ouch.

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Tom Daigon
Re: What Creative Cloud means to the University I work at
on May 8, 2013 at 7:51:21 pm

Todd, Im sorry to hear Adobe is screwing you guys as well.

Tom Daigon
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Frank Gothmann
Re: What Creative Cloud means to the University I work at
on May 8, 2013 at 7:57:34 pm

And how is that statement from your IT guy supposed to make sense, given that a single student or teacher subscription only costs 19.99 per month, without any volume discounts that may get thrown in?

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Todd VanSlyck
Re: What Creative Cloud means to the University I work at
on May 8, 2013 at 8:28:32 pm

Frank, I just got a response to your question from Jeff (our IT guy)

"That’s for an individual. So if a student wants their own license, they’d buy that as a named license. We need to buy a seat license for a machine that can be centrally managed. That license is UNOH’s and can be shared among several students who may be sitting at a computer rather than paying for each student to have an individual license. With Gabe having two class cohorts running simultaneously, we’d be paying $40/mo. (2 students at $20/mo.) anyways if we went to individual licenses.

So, for $40/mo. we’re getting a seat license that can be shared among students and centralized license management by UNOH. At least, that’s how I’m understanding it so far."

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Tim Kolb
Re: What Creative Cloud means to the University I work at
on May 8, 2013 at 7:57:28 pm

[Todd VanSlyck] "Our IT guy who handles this has been on the phone with our Adobe rep for the past two days trying to sort all this out. It seems, as of right now, this is the final word.
"


I can't believe we won't see Adobe doing something to answer the situations like this as losing schools is counter-productive quite obviously, and this story will play itself out many times with schools with many seats in the balance.

TimK,
Director, Consultant
Kolb Productions,

Adobe Certified Instructor


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Gary Huff
Re: What Creative Cloud means to the University I work at
on May 9, 2013 at 2:30:57 pm

[Tim Kolb] "I can't believe we won't see Adobe doing something to answer the situations like this as losing schools is counter-productive quite obviously, and this story will play itself out many times with schools with many seats in the balance."

But Adobe has to make a profit, doesn't it? Why do you want to deny them profit?


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Tim Kolb
Re: What Creative Cloud means to the University I work at
on May 9, 2013 at 5:53:20 pm

[Gary Huff] "But Adobe has to make a profit, doesn't it? Why do you want to deny them profit?"

Gary, how is it you guys can all say on the one hand that Adobe can (and should) keep doing what they've been doing and make money, but then you also argue that they can't continue academic discounts as they have always have under the new system?

Craig Seeman and a few others have had a few posts that have some legitimate concerns that are expressed sans nonsense, but otherwise the FUD remains a little thick around here.

TimK,
Director, Consultant
Kolb Productions,

Adobe Certified Instructor


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Jim Wiseman
Re: What Creative Cloud means to the University I work at
on May 8, 2013 at 7:59:45 pm

Good going, Adobe. Cut your future editors off at the legs. That's the way to grow your user base and bring up new talent!

Jim Wiseman
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Kris Merkel
Re: What Creative Cloud means to the University I work at
on May 8, 2013 at 8:12:17 pm

The sky is not falling and saying that a company is "Screwing" you or someone else just because they change the way they do business is not a fair assessment of anyone else's situation other than your own personal feelings getting hurt.

This misinformation about how educational licenses will get distributed without knowing all of the details and relying on here say of an experience someone else had is just perpetuating ignorance. If you really want to know you should find a reliable source and talk to them yourself. The only folks that know how educational and teams licenses will be distributed and their associated costs are the folks who are working out the "deals" with Adobe. If they are able and choose to make that public then I am sure we will find out. Until then...

"Think of everything in terms of building capacity."

Kris Merkel
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Jim Wiseman
Re: What Creative Cloud means to the University I work at
on May 8, 2013 at 8:22:12 pm

Sounds like the gentleman IS directly involved and this is not hearsay, unless he has never met his IT manager. And more than "feelings" are being hurt. People's businesses and educational opportunities appear to be. I hope he can get a better deal than that, but I have heard a few other horror stories about large educational installations having their budgets turned upside down.

Jim Wiseman
Sony PMW-EX1,Pana AJ-D810 DVCPro, DVX-100, Nikon D7000, Final Cut Studio 2 and 3, Media 100 Suite 2.1, Premiere Pro 5.5 and 6.0, AJA ioHD, AJA Kona LHi, Avid MC, Hexacore MacPro 3.33 Ghz 24Gb RAM GTX-285 120GB SSD, Macbook Pro 17" 2011 2.2 Ghz Quadcore i7 8Gb SSD, G5 Quadcore PCIe


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Todd VanSlyck
Re: What Creative Cloud means to the University I work at
on May 8, 2013 at 8:32:32 pm

Kris, see the response to Frank above, in reference to licensing.
This is directly from Jeff (our IT guy), who is in direct conversation with our Adobe sales rep.

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Kris Merkel
Re: What Creative Cloud means to the University I work at
on May 8, 2013 at 8:57:32 pm

I appreciate the Qualifier in the original post about the situation as it stands right now.

Are the Licenses that are currently on your machines going to expire next month? And, it may really be as expensive as your IT guys rep says it will, but with any major announcement like this sometimes will leave reps with only available public information and not the full measure of what is available or negotiable my guess is that your institution will be paying close to what it was per year as a whole. All I am trying to say is that before passing judgement and screaming about the sky falling is that everyone take a measured approach to how this plays out for your own circumstances. this is not the end of the world and if it is it will certainly take a while to get here.

I could be wrong...but I don't thinks so.

"Think of everything in terms of building capacity."

Kris Merkel
twitter: @kris_merkel
Product Manager, Flanders Scientific Inc.
http://www.shopfsi.com
Co-Founder, Atlanta Cutters Post Production User Group
http://www.atlantacutters.com

2.2Ghz MBP core i7
16Gb RAM
CS6/FCP7
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FSI LM-2461W/CM-170W







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Kevin Monahan
Re: What Creative Cloud means to the University I work at
on May 8, 2013 at 9:03:08 pm

Sorry about the confusion. This appears to be a "Creative Cloud for Teams" installation, not an educational one. There is a totally different pricing model for most educational customers. If you do licensing, essentially the academic license (our new EEA and ETLA programs) will be similar to the price you paid previously.

If you do want to operate under our new EEA and ETLA programs and not Creative Cloud for Teams, you should contact educational volume licensing sales to give you a quote. It should match your past academic licensing price expectations.

Kevin Monahan
Social Support Lead
Adobe After Effects
Adobe Premiere Pro
Adobe Systems, Inc.
Follow Me on Twitter!


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Jim Wiseman
Re: What Creative Cloud means to the University I work at
on May 8, 2013 at 9:32:08 pm

Glad you got involved for this situation, Kevin. I hope his and other universities are taken care of properly, regardless of my feelings about this new model.

Jim Wiseman
Sony PMW-EX1,Pana AJ-D810 DVCPro, DVX-100, Nikon D7000, Final Cut Studio 2 and 3, Media 100 Suite 2.1, Premiere Pro 5.5 and 6.0, AJA ioHD, AJA Kona LHi, Avid MC, Hexacore MacPro 3.33 Ghz 24Gb RAM GTX-285 120GB SSD, Macbook Pro 17" 2011 2.2 Ghz Quadcore i7 8Gb SSD, G5 Quadcore PCIe


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Kevin Monahan
Re: What Creative Cloud means to the University I work at
on May 8, 2013 at 10:15:05 pm

[Jim Wiseman] "Glad you got involved for this situation, Kevin. I hope his and other universities are taken care of properly, regardless of my feelings about this new model."

Most definitely. We hope to continue our tradition of working closely with educational institutions.

I have a lot of sympathy for the educational sector. I am a product of the CA State University system with a BA in RTVF and certification from a well known trade school in Burbank, CA where I ended up becoming an instructor.

Kevin Monahan
Social Support Lead
Adobe After Effects
Adobe Premiere Pro
Adobe Systems, Inc.
Follow Me on Twitter!


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walter biscardi
Re: What Creative Cloud means to the University I work at
on May 9, 2013 at 1:18:17 am

Thanks for jumping in here Kevin. Good to know Adobe is not "screwing educational partners." Same some folks here have to continually pile on to threads and jump to conclusions before the actual facts are sorted out.

I had a feeling the information was not getting to the University correctly because Adobe has such a great history with educational partners.

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Todd VanSlyck
Re: What Creative Cloud means to the University I work at
on May 9, 2013 at 12:46:41 pm

Thanks for the response and clarification Kevin. I'll pass it along to Jeff.
Since our sales rep has no knowledge of this, what should we do to inform him/her about it, or who could we talk to?

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Kevin Monahan
Re: What Creative Cloud means to the University I work at
on May 9, 2013 at 4:11:18 pm

[Todd VanSlyck] "Thanks for the response and clarification Kevin. I'll pass it along to Jeff.
Since our sales rep has no knowledge of this, what should we do to inform him/her about it, or who could we talk to?"


I'm not sure why the sales rep. does not have knowledge of our EDU policies. I would ask again about an educational installation vs. a CC for Teams installation. If the sales rep. cannot help you, I can have someone internally contact you. Follow me on Twitter and you can DM me your contact info.

Kevin Monahan
Social Support Lead
Adobe After Effects
Adobe Premiere Pro
Adobe Systems, Inc.
Follow Me on Twitter!


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Gary Huff
Re: What Creative Cloud means to the University I work at
on May 9, 2013 at 2:32:09 pm

[Kevin Monahan] "If you do want to operate under our new EEA and ETLA programs and not Creative Cloud for Teams, you should contact educational volume licensing sales to give you a quote. It should match your past academic licensing price expectations."

I am not in academia, but am still very glad to hear this will continue.


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James Culbertson
Re: What Creative Cloud means to the University I work at
on May 10, 2013 at 4:52:17 am

[Kevin Monahan] "Sorry about the confusion. This appears to be a "Creative Cloud for Teams" installation, not an educational one. There is a totally different pricing model for most educational customers. If you do licensing, essentially the academic license (our new EEA and ETLA programs) will be similar to the price you paid previously."

I called a sales rep yesterday to ask about educational team pricing, and he gave me the $40/month/student price as well. So, you should definitely try to educate all your sales reps what the real deal is.

Can you give us phone number to call an educational rep who knows what they are talking about?


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Tim Kolb
Re: What Creative Cloud means to the University I work at
on May 8, 2013 at 9:09:37 pm

[Todd VanSlyck] "Kris, see the response to Frank above, in reference to licensing.
This is directly from Jeff (our IT guy), who is in direct conversation with our Adobe sales rep."


I understand that is the information that you and your staff have gotten, but 480.00/machine?

If you bought each machine as an individual with the teacher/academic discount, it would be 240.00/machine per year currently...360.00/yr retail list. A group of seats for a classroom must have a volume discount that brings the unit cost down lower than an individual.

I think you got some misinformation, or there is a mitigating factor yet to be mentioned...Adobe's individual price list is here:

http://www.adobe.com/products/creativecloud/buying-guide.html

TimK,
Director, Consultant
Kolb Productions,

Adobe Certified Instructor


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Todd VanSlyck
Re: What Creative Cloud means to the University I work at
on May 8, 2013 at 8:51:37 pm

[Kris Merkel] "The sky is not falling and saying that a company is "Screwing" you or someone else just because they change the way they do business is not a fair assessment of anyone else's situation other than your own personal feelings getting hurt."

I'm not implying the sky is falling, etc. I'm stating a fact about what it means to a University.
Fact: We used to pay $2340.00 for 30 computers to run Adobe products for the year. Now we'll pay $14,400.00 for the same thing.
Now imagine how much that will mean to a LARGE university that has many more computers running CC.
We're the ONLY large business in the Lima, OH area who hasn't had to lay people off in the past few years. That's due to smart leadership and proactive cost-cutting. This, along with other things has an effect on a business such as ourselves.

Will we go broke? No. Will we pony up and buy it? Yup.
I was simply stating how it effects us.

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Kris Merkel
Re: What Creative Cloud means to the University I work at
on May 8, 2013 at 9:05:01 pm

I personally have not heard any details about volume Licensing for educational, gov, or non-profit one way or the other and at the moment I do not think one exists publicly for the #CC other than the teams model wich will not suit the aforementioned institutions. The Pricing that your IT guy was quoted was for the individual student and educator discount. not volume pricing. I would wait and see what Adobe comes up with for you.

"Think of everything in terms of building capacity."

Kris Merkel
twitter: @kris_merkel
Product Manager, Flanders Scientific Inc.
http://www.shopfsi.com
Co-Founder, Atlanta Cutters Post Production User Group
http://www.atlantacutters.com

2.2Ghz MBP core i7
16Gb RAM
CS6/FCP7
AJA T-Tap
AJA IO XT
FSI LM-2461W/CM-170W







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Peter Sengstock
Re: What Creative Cloud means to the University I work at
on May 9, 2013 at 8:42:05 pm

We're in the same boat. I won't use dollar amounts, but our software costs have gone up 300%. We didn't budget for this (how could we?), so I don't know how we'll get the money to continue.

-Pete


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Greg Penetrante
Re: What Creative Cloud means to the University I work at
on May 9, 2013 at 9:11:29 pm

I work at SDSU. We are part of the Cal State University system.

We BOUGHT Maintenance (CS5) last year for around $3.6K for 30 machines along with VLA concurrent licenses ($more money). This was supposed to cover us for TWO years. Now it seems Adobe canceled it, according to my Adobe rep.

Did we just get screwed by Adobe?

At least Adobe should refund our (the taxpayers) money. ;-(

Adobe's gotta take care of its customers as well as make a profit, so I hope Adobe comes out with a good compromise.


-Greg



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Peter Sengstock
Re: What Creative Cloud means to the University I work at
on May 10, 2013 at 5:23:41 am

Hey Greg,

I was told by our rep that maintenance would still be valid through the end of our contract, though I'm not sure exactly what that means. Does this mean we'll get the same number of CC licenses as we had maintenance licenses, and they'll just expire until the end of our contract? Or does it mean something completely different? I'm hoping to hear back from our rep next week with more info. Of course, I'm not sure whether there would be any differences between maintenance contracts, so you should probably clarify with your own rep.


Pete


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