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Version issues (sample), part II

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Chris Pettit
Version issues (sample), part II
on Jun 20, 2014 at 12:21:34 am

Choice selections:

"Wait - wasn't one of the selling points of the subscription CC model that we'd never have to deal with a massive update that ran next to a previous version? So that what we're dealing with, with CC and CC2014, wouldn't happen? In the "buy the software" model, if the new version was broken, you could still work with the old one. With the subscription model - we have a feature that prevents that. Let me say that's NOT progress."

"That's right, after 90 minutes with support, I still don't have a solution that lets me choose to edit in CC instead of CC2014. His last recommendation was that I uninstall: Lightroom 5.5, Bridge, CC, CS6, and CC2014, and install all of them again. REALLY? Since I've uninstalled and installed Lightroom 5.5 TWICE today, what is it that will happen the third time to fix the problem? His response was, sir, that is my recommendation."

Nightmare scenario, I've been there. I want the new tools, have since last May. But these are exactly the kind of upgrade pain points that existed before there was mandatory CC, I truly don't comprehend how this got better with "cloud"....

https://www.facebook.com/adobecreativecloud/posts/872171072799803


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Todd Kopriva
Re: Version issues (sample), part II
on Jun 20, 2014 at 1:11:15 am

I address the question of major new version versus update toward the bottom of this page:

http://blogs.adobe.com/aftereffects/2014/06/plug-ins-settings-after-effects...

This focuses on the decisions that we on the After Effects team make, but the same factors apply in general for other teams.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Todd Kopriva, Adobe Systems Incorporated
After Effects quality engineering
After Effects team blog
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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Chris Pettit
Re: Version issues (sample), part II
on Jun 20, 2014 at 1:36:30 am

Todd:

Personally I don't question the need for major version releases, only that is sounds a whole lot like the old version releases before CC was mandatory. Additionally, the side by side versions don't seem to have played well with the person that posted the previously mentioned comments. This is a situation I've found myself in previously on more than one occasion. In one case it took 11 days of tech support to get the conflicts between 2 version of CS Production Premium to work well together. CC does not appear to have solved this issue.

You mention migrating settings from CC to CC 2014. Does it work that way with all the Adobe applications?

There seems to be conditional plugin maintenance required with the migration from CC to CC2014 (Media Core VS AE folders). Will that continue with each years CC release? Is it reasonable to expect to have to continue to maintenance multiple versions of CC until the subscribers are completely comfortable with the new version, and then uninstall the old? And if so, how is that an improvement over the old way of managing upgrades to the Adobe suite? Sincere question, I'm sure there are aspects of this I'm missing.

As always, I think it's great that you take the time to post here.


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Todd Kopriva
Re: Version issues (sample), part II
on Jun 21, 2014 at 3:59:22 pm

> You mention migrating settings from CC to CC 2014. Does it work that way with all the Adobe applications?


Many, but not all. It was only recently that Photoshop was the first application to introduce a feature to migrate settings from the previous version to the (then-)current version. We on the After Effects team---and several other teams---decided that we liked that feature, and we implemented it, too.

BTW, that's how a lot of feature development works: The individual application teams do talk with one another during development, but it's not until after something is released and we see how it is received that we know that some other team really got something right (or wrong). That's why you'll often see something pop up in one application in one release and then in most/all of the rest in the next version.

> There seems to be conditional plugin maintenance required with the migration from CC to CC2014 (Media Core VS AE folders). Will that continue with each years CC release?


In general, third-party plug-ins should be going in the MediaCore folder. We will only increment the version number on that when technical changes in the plug-in API make that necessary. So, there should be relatively few times when people need to install new plug-ins.

In general, the only plug-ins that go in the After Effects Plug-ins folder are the ones that we bundle with After Effects, so any maintenance there is entirely on us.

The only burden on the regular user comes when they have put third-party plug-ins in the After Effects Plug-ins folder. There's nothing wrong with doing that, but it does incur this small inconvenience when a new version comes out.


> Is it reasonable to expect to have to continue to maintenance multiple versions of CC until the subscribers are completely comfortable with the new version, and then uninstall the old? And if so, how is that an improvement over the old way of managing upgrades to the Adobe suite?


I don't know that any Adobe folks ever claimed that there would be an improvement in this specific area. Creative Cloud changes far less in this kind of matter than some people seem to have speculated that it would. There are changes in the business model, but that doesn't mean that there are changes to what the software is on disk or how it loads plug-ins.

Regarding keeping old versions around: Yes, I have always (since After Effects 7.0, when I started on the After Effects team) recommended that people keep the old version installed. It doesn't take up much room on today's cheap and vast storage, and it gives peace of mind that you can go back to the old version to get some work done if you don't yet want to learn a new way of doing something. Also, we sometimes remove obsolete features; but what we call "obsolete" might be important to a small number of folks, and they will want to keep the old version around to use those features.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Todd Kopriva, Adobe Systems Incorporated
After Effects quality engineering
After Effects team blog
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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David Lawrence
Re: Version issues (sample), part II
on Jun 21, 2014 at 6:04:29 pm

[Todd Kopriva] "There are changes in the business model, but that doesn't mean that there are changes to what the software is on disk or how it loads plug-ins."

Thank you Todd. This is what many of us have been saying from the start.

Please let your managers know that millions of customers like myself would gladly purchase your CC2013 applications with a perpetual license. And we'd be comfortable doing this every year for a reasonable price.

Win-win.

As always, thank you for participating in these forums.

_______________________
David Lawrence
art~media~design~research
propaganda.com
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http://lnkd.in/Cfz92F
facebook.com/dlawrence
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Andrew Kimery
Re: Version issues (sample), part II
on Jun 22, 2014 at 2:27:05 am

[David Lawrence] "And we'd be comfortable doing this every year for a reasonable price."

Define reasonable. Would a full CS price and no upgrade discounts be reasonable to you?


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David Lawrence
Re: Version issues (sample), part II
on Jun 22, 2014 at 2:42:36 am

[Andrew Kimery] "Define reasonable. Would a full CS price and no upgrade discounts be reasonable to you?"

No, but that's the most extreme possibility.

How about something like Avid's done? Pay every year and get a discount, stop paying and it goes back to full price? Or maybe there's a loyalty program where if you subscribe for X number of years or spend X number of dollars, you get to keep a perpetual copy of the latest version. There are lots of fair scenarios that I think would work for everyone.

_______________________
David Lawrence
art~media~design~research
propaganda.com
publicmattersgroup.com
http://lnkd.in/Cfz92F
facebook.com/dlawrence
twitter.com/dhl
vimeo.com/dlawrence/albums


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Andrew Kimery
Re: Version issues (sample), part II
on Jun 22, 2014 at 4:18:50 am

I agree that there are lots of scenarios. Somewhere in this mess of version/update/elephant threads I mentioned a couple but I'm to lazy to find them.

Some sort of loyalty buyout option is something I've been asking about for a while. I recently got a survey sent to me from Adobe and I stressed the lack of an off ramp as being the #1 problem Adobe has right now.


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Rainer Schubert
Re: Version issues (sample), part II
on Jun 22, 2014 at 2:26:38 am
Last Edited By Rainer Schubert on Jun 22, 2014 at 2:27:14 am

[Todd Kopriva] "and it gives peace of mind"
!?
Peace of mind? Freedom of choice??


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Chris Pettit
Re: Version issues (sample), part II
on Jun 22, 2014 at 6:41:06 am

[Todd Kopriva] "We on the After Effects team---and several other teams---decided that we liked that feature, and we implemented it, too."

that's why I asked, great way to go, but ultimately it would need to be universal to be truly useful I would think.

[Todd Kopriva] "
In general, third-party plug-ins should be going in the MediaCore folder. We will only increment the version number on that when technical changes in the plug-in API make that necessary. So, there should be relatively few times when people need to install new plug-ins."


Good news. Eventually I hope to be giving my money to Adobe again sometime in the future (maybe wishful thinking), but big issue nevertheless. If I end up subscribing, plugin maintenance is a big issue. I dont want to have to agonize over multiple verisons of multiple plugins, under deadline pressure. Here's an example of what I would like to AVOID (from todays FB posts):

Hey Adobe...cool new stuff...but all my add-on filters are not showing up..ColorEfex ect....what's the fix guys? HELP NOW
LikeLike · · 12 hours ago

Adobe Creative Cloud Hi Steve, you might check with the plugin developer to see if they have created a CC 2014 compatible plugin. Thanks Scott


[Todd Kopriva] "I don't know that any Adobe folks ever claimed that there would be an improvement in this specific area. Creative Cloud changes far less in this kind of matter than some people seem to have speculated that it would. There are changes in the business model, but that doesn't mean that there are changes to what the software is on disk or how it loads plug-ins."

Changes to the business model....That's pretty much what many of us have been saying for a long time Todd, only to be met with assertions that it is actually a "whole new way" of consuming and updating software. Nothing personal, but this seems to to simply confirm what I and others have been saying since CC became the only game in town. It's about new ways to sell software, not work with it. BTW, I would suggest that Adobes choice to include the word "cloud" in the actual name of the software might be at least partly responsible for that misconception.


[Todd Kopriva] " Yes, I have always (since After Effects 7.0, when I started on the After Effects team) recommended that people keep the old version installed"

I agree totally, but it's harder when there are conflicts with previous versions (again, I've been there). That's what appears to have already occurred with at least some people relative to CC vs 2014CC.

Todd, again, thanks for taking your valuable time to post.


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David Mathis
Re: Version issues (sample), part II
on Jun 20, 2014 at 1:29:48 am

What about FCP X? Once you do the update there is no possible way to go back to a previous version. So far only Resolve has that option should the most current version not work for whatever reason. Just a thought. Wish that Adobe would allow for a perpetual license for the prior version when a new one is released.


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Jim Wiseman
Re: Version issues (sample), part II
on Jun 20, 2014 at 3:12:20 am

And FCPX costs $299 PERPETUAL. I could own both versions for less than a few months of CC. And it would always open my work. If Adobe keeps this up they are toast.

Jim Wiseman
Sony PMW-EX1, Pana AJ-D810 DVCPro, DVX-100, Nikon D7000, Final Cut Pro X 10.1.1, Final Cut Studio 2 and 3, Media 100 Suite 2.1.5, Premiere Pro CS 5.5 and 6.0, AJA ioHD, AJA Kona LHi, Blackmagic Ultrastudio 4K, Blackmagic Teranex, Avid MC, 2013 Mac Pro Hexacore, 1 TB SSD, 64GB RAM, 2-D500: 2012 Hexacore MacPro 3.33 Ghz 24Gb RAM GTX-285 120GB SSD, Macbook Pro 17" 2011 2.2 Ghz Quadcore i7 16GB RAM 250GB SSD


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Gary Huff
Re: Version issues (sample), part II
on Jun 20, 2014 at 1:57:48 pm

[Jim Wiseman] "And it would always open my work."

You actually don't know this for sure.


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Richard Herd
Re: Version issues (sample), part II
on Jun 20, 2014 at 7:12:34 pm

[Gary Huff] "[Jim Wiseman] "And it would always open my work."

You actually don't know this for sure."


But it is justified belief.


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Jim Wiseman
Re: Version issues (sample), part II
on Jun 20, 2014 at 7:14:52 pm

Don't know if I will wake up in the morning...
non sequitur

Jim Wiseman
Sony PMW-EX1, Pana AJ-D810 DVCPro, DVX-100, Nikon D7000, Final Cut Pro X 10.1.1, Final Cut Studio 2 and 3, Media 100 Suite 2.1.5, Premiere Pro CS 5.5 and 6.0, AJA ioHD, AJA Kona LHi, Blackmagic Ultrastudio 4K, Blackmagic Teranex, Avid MC, 2013 Mac Pro Hexacore, 1 TB SSD, 64GB RAM, 2-D500: 2012 Hexacore MacPro 3.33 Ghz 24Gb RAM GTX-285 120GB SSD, Macbook Pro 17" 2011 2.2 Ghz Quadcore i7 16GB RAM 250GB SSD


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Gary Huff
Re: Version issues (sample), part II
on Jun 20, 2014 at 9:36:58 pm

[Jim Wiseman] "Don't know if I will wake up in the morning...
non sequitur"


Except FCPX didn't open FCP7. So there's evidence that you don't know for sure.


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Dino Sanacory
Re: Version issues (sample), part II
on Jun 26, 2014 at 3:41:17 pm

[Gary Huff] "Except FCPX didn't open FCP7. So there's evidence that you don't know for sure."

non sequitur


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Gary Huff
Re: Version issues (sample), part II
on Jun 26, 2014 at 8:39:24 pm

[Dino Sanacory] "non sequitur"

Nonsensical.


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