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The Return of the perpetual license?

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Steve Connor
The Return of the perpetual license?
on Jun 2, 2014 at 7:15:23 pm

https://creativecloud.adobeevents.com/ccnext/?sdid=KLUAV

Steve Connor
Mellowing slowly


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: The Return of the perpetual license?
on Jun 2, 2014 at 8:36:32 pm

snowball - meet hell.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Franz Bieberkopf
Re: The Return of the perpetual license?
on Jun 2, 2014 at 9:08:45 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] " snowball - meet hell."

Aindreas,

Veiled Trotsky-ist critique of Adobe via George Orwell?

Franz.


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: The Return of the perpetual license?
on Jun 3, 2014 at 10:01:14 am

you have me.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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David Mathis
Re: The Return of the perpetual license?
on Jun 2, 2014 at 8:56:08 pm

Would be nice but not counting on it.


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Chris Pettit
Re: The Return of the perpetual license?
on Jun 2, 2014 at 10:09:28 pm

Right, they're calling it the "when pigs fly" release.

BTW, sure seems like a lot of hype and "whiz bang" for a company that says it's glad it doesn't have to produce "whiz bang" anymore.


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David Lawrence
Re: The Return of the perpetual license?
on Jun 2, 2014 at 10:51:06 pm

[Chris Pettit] "BTW, sure seems like a lot of hype and "whiz bang" for a company that says it's glad it doesn't have to produce "whiz bang" anymore."

Yep, and note the new naming convention:
Adobe is moving forward with the CC name, and that won’t change. However, they are adding a calendar year identifier to the version name to distinguish it from earlier and future releases. So next month we’ll get the Photoshop CC 2014 release, together with all the other Creative Cloud tools. To map it into terms of the previous “Creative Suite” model, this would have been CS8.

Also from the same article:
The reason these major milestones are necessary is so folks can communicate clearly what software they are using – for the sake of inter-version file format compatibility, writing tutorial books, developing training and coursework, giving certification testing, providing technical support, and more.
You'd think the seventh largest software company on Plant Earth would be able to figure out a way to sell perpetual copies of those major milestone releases to the customers who want them.

Here's the link to the full article:
http://prodesigntools.com/new-adobe-cc-2014-release.html

_______________________
David Lawrence
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Chris Pettit
Re: The Return of the perpetual license?
on Jun 2, 2014 at 10:57:29 pm

[David Lawrence] "Yep, and note the new naming convention:

Adobe is moving forward with the CC name, and that won’t change. However, they are adding a calendar year identifier to the version name to distinguish it from earlier and future releases. So next month we’ll get the Photoshop CC 2014 release, together with all the other Creative Cloud tools. To map it into terms of the previous “Creative Suite” model, this would have been CS8."


Interesting, seems to be a complete backtrack from what they've said previously. Many people have asked how you keep track of version issues with "constantly updated apps" and they got a different answer at the time.

[David Lawrence] "The reason these major milestones are necessary is so folks can communicate clearly what software they are using – for the sake of inter-version file format compatibility, writing tutorial books, developing training and coursework, giving certification testing, providing technical support, and more."

So when they said this specific issue wasn't going to be a problem, they appear to have come to a new conclusion.

Am I the only one that feels like they're kinda making this up as they go along?


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Ricardo Marty
Re: The Return of the perpetual license?
on Jun 3, 2014 at 12:04:02 am

maybe somehow theyve reach the 4 million mark, or maye narayanen has resigned or ......,,

ricardo marty


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Gary Huff
Re: The Return of the perpetual license?
on Jun 3, 2014 at 1:00:00 am

[David Lawrence] "You'd think the seventh largest software company on Plant Earth would be able to figure out a way to sell perpetual copies of those major milestone releases to the customers who want them."

While everyone else is trying to figure out how to get people to pay on a subscription basis?


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: The Return of the perpetual license?
on Jun 3, 2014 at 10:27:57 am

Importantly, the CC 2014 release will not replace or overwrite any previous versions you may have installed on your computer… It will install and run side-by-side with earlier software such as the current CC 2013, as well as any older CS release(s). Subscribers can decide when to upgrade, and when or if to uninstall prior versions.

apart from anything else - they maybe need to work out a system that doesn't involve them dumping five different versions of the same application into the apps folder. i was in a place that had built up some 5.5., all of 6 and CC - it looks mental. It's like a hoarder with hygiene problems.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Ricardo Marty
Re: The Return of the perpetual license?
on Jun 2, 2014 at 10:54:08 pm

when pigs fly is the same as when freezes over. something that was not suppose have happend is going to happen.

what can it be?

ricarfo marty


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Andrew Kimery
Re: The Return of the perpetual license?
on Jun 3, 2014 at 12:04:41 am

I'm not sure why anyone thought major releases and version numbers were a thing of the past. All the apps still had version numbers (i.e. PPro 7.x) and some changes will be substantial and substantial changes usually get new versions. And if you have app substantial changes to an interconnected suite of apps it makes sense to coordinate the substation changes across the apps so you don't break things (like Dynamic Link).

A big difference between CC Adobe and non-CC Adobe is that with non-CC Adobe all feature upgrades, big or small, had to meet an arbitrary deadline or be shelved until the next cycle. With CC Adobe feature upgrades don't have to meet the arbitrary 'big new release' deadline.


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Chris Pettit
Re: The Return of the perpetual license?
on Jun 3, 2014 at 12:13:48 am
Last Edited By Chris Pettit on Jun 3, 2014 at 12:14:54 am

[Andrew Kimery] "I'm not sure why anyone thought major releases and version numbers were a thing of the past."

Because we were told so. On this forum.

[Andrew Kimery] "With CC Adobe feature upgrades don't have to meet the arbitrary 'big new release' deadline."

So how does "Everything new is new again." not fit that description?
In what way is it not a 'big new release'? Sure looks like one to me. Or it's just hype. Or a mix of both.


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Andrew Kimery
Re: The Return of the perpetual license?
on Jun 3, 2014 at 12:54:49 am

[Chris Pettit] "Because we were told so. On this forum."

Were we? Or did people just assume? Ever since CC was announced Adobe has said that old versions of the apps will remain available for download starting with CS 6. It's even in the Adobe CC FAQ. Once CC 2014 comes out then CC users will be able to choose from using CS 6, CC 2013 or CC 2014. This option has been discussed at length in a number of the "What if I need to open up old projects" threads. Continued versioning of the software under the CC model is nothing new.

I think some people assumed that versioning was no longer happening just like people some assumed that the CC apps were actually in the cloud or that Adobe auto-updated all the apps w/o user consent. There is still a lot of fundamental misinformation about CC even though it's been around for years.


[Chris Pettit] "So how does "Everything new is new again." not fit that description?
In what way is it not a 'big new release'? Sure looks like one to me. Or it's just hype. Or a mix of both."


I didn't say there will no longer be big, new releases. I said that feature upgrades are no longer explicitly tied to big, new releases. Adobe launched CC with a big new release last year. Since then there have been a number of feature updates even though there hasn't yet been another big, new release. It's the difference between only getting presents at Christmas and getting presents multiple times a year including Christmas.


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Chris Pettit
Re: The Return of the perpetual license?
on Jun 3, 2014 at 4:28:20 am

[Andrew Kimery] " It's the difference between only getting presents at Christmas and getting presents multiple times a year including Christmas."

What happened to the the main argument that I've heard over and over, that CC allows changes to happen incrementally, rapidly, without fanfare, as they become available, without any "hoopla" and "whizbang",independent of the other applications in the collection, in other words NO CHRISTMAS AT ALL anymore. As needed - instead of big splashy Suite-wide releases designed to attract new customers or get people to buy in? That's what we were told Andrew.

Again, if you look at the link:

"Everything is New Again"

Explain to me, from a marketing perspective, how that is substantially different from CS releases of the past, designed to announce great new features that you simply "cant do without", and were not available in previous versions and integrate well with the other applications that have ALSO been upgraded?

This sure has the scent of a "CS like" release to me. The emperor has no clothes.


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Gary Huff
Re: The Return of the perpetual license?
on Jun 3, 2014 at 1:00:27 am

[Chris Pettit] "Because we were told so. On this forum."

We were told no such thing.


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Dino Sanacory
Re: The Return of the perpetual license?
on Jun 3, 2014 at 4:12:39 am

[Gary Huff] "[Chris Pettit] "Because we were told so. On this forum."

We were told no such thing."



Gary, your cleverness continues to astound. Actually, just two month ago I was engaged in a discussion on this very topic wherein an actual Adobe employee expounded upon the virtues of being freed from the annual update cycle. Progress is not measure by the passage of time but rather by what is achieved. Finally Adobe can break free of that albatross of an unrelenting taskmaster, the calendar. That being the very system Adobe imposed upon itself all the way back in, are you ready for it?, 2011 with the release of CS 5.5. Oh the wailing and gnashing of teeth we suffered under the shackles of annual increment, 2012, 2013, 20... oh make it stop, please no more. But lets not dwell on the facts, instead we look to the future, a future not bound by rigid and arbitrary strictures but rather one measured by, by counting to three hundred and sixty five.


that thread, if you are interested,
http://forums.creativecow.net/readpost/378/7206


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Gary Huff
Re: The Return of the perpetual license?
on Jun 3, 2014 at 12:51:45 pm
Last Edited By Gary Huff on Jun 3, 2014 at 1:06:44 pm

[Dino Sanacory] "Gary, your cleverness continues to astound."

Okay, let's see what kind of solid foundation we have here:

[Andrew Kimery] " I'm not sure why anyone thought major releases and version numbers were a thing of the past."

I think Kimery made a slight error here calling it "major releases". Version numbers are not a thing of the past. But Petite doesn't make that distinction if he was referring to the former and not the latter when he quotes that exact line and follows it with:

[Chris Pettit] "Because we were told so. On this forum."

For version numbers? Absolutely not. For "major releases"? Is there any indication that this is at all like,

[Dino Sanacory] "Finally Adobe can break free of that albatross of an unrelenting taskmaster, the calendar. That being the very system Adobe imposed upon itself all the way back in, are you ready for it?, 2011 with the release of CS 5.5. Oh the wailing and gnashing of teeth we suffered under the shackles of annual increment, 2012, 2013, 20... oh make it stop, please no more. But lets not dwell on the facts, instead we look to the future, a future not bound by rigid and arbitrary strictures but rather one measured by, by counting to three hundred and sixty five."

I am astounded that you don't think Adobe would continue to hold an annual event that showcases what is coming to CC in the future in order to generate excitement to keep current subscribers subscribing and entice non-subscribers to subscribe. Where do you get the idea that this is some kind of "annual" release, other than the typical anti-CC comments that make assumptions?

[Dino Sanacory] "that thread, if you are interested,
http://forums.creativecow.net/readpost/378/7206"


I'm curious as to why you didn't directly link to Todd's post, the actual Adobe rep in this case. Here is exactly what he said:

[Todd Kopriva] "What I'm happiest with is that this is a solid workflow update, without the need to focus on a lot of glitzy bells and whistles to get people's attention to drive another upgrade outlay. Instead, we can just focus on fixing pain points, responding to request from existing users, etc."

So where does this say what you claim it says?

[Todd Kopriva] "When we needed to convince people to drop many hundreds of dollars on an upgrade all at once, we had to have a few really big, snazzy features to catch people's attention and make the release seem "big". (At least, that is what our marketing folks believed.) We couldn't spend a year and a half fixing bugs and making subtle workflow improvements that save you a couple of clicks on every operation---even though that's what you would probably have appreciated more from us.

But now, when our focus is on retaining you as a customer from month to month, we are _required_ to remove every possible speedbump in your workflow, to make you as happy as possible with what you have; if we don't, you can just stop paying us and go with another set of software and services.

Personally, I like this model better because it forces us to be more engaged with y'all, and I've always thought that that is the best way to build anything---to be in constant contact with the people that you're building for."


Again, where is Todd, the actual Adobe representative in this case, promising no more "major releases" or version numbers? In fact, here's another actual Adobe quote:

[Karl Soule] "Premiere Pro CC is at Version 7.0, Prelude CC is on version 2.0, After Effects CC is on version 12.0, etc. The individual products have always had version numbers as well. The Creative Cloud app will notify of updates, but continue to offer the major older versions as well, with CS6 being the starting point."

At some point, Adobe will have to update the CC apps primarily to be compatible with new iterations of OSX and Windows. But not everyone is going to be using the latest OS. So would it not be a good idea to make an arbitrary breaking point between major versions just for this reason alone?

It's not a matter of cleverness...it's a matter of reading comprehension and the savvy of differentiating goof information from the bad.


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: The Return of the perpetual license?
on Jun 3, 2014 at 7:36:33 pm

i think you've kind of got it right - they always were clear that the apps would retain versioning PS12 etc - and they would have an archive of previous versions - but I do think the intention was that you were entering a subscription - it was pretty clear from their use of language that 'with CC you will always be up to date'.

people don't exactly tend to iterate subscriptions - because they're subscriptions for god's sake - the creative cloud is a subscription service - tbh the creative cloud 2 - or whatever that is - sounds semantically strange to me. particularly given all the underlying apps are now on diverging update cycles no longer locked to a single yearly release? wasn't that half the excuse provided as cover for going to a remote DRM locked subscription service?

It seems as though they are floundering a little in terms of what CC means -if only because what they professed it meant had little to do with the function it embodies - remote DRM on local software. they made up a lot of PR jargon around it, but a lot of it was post fact justification - see the meaningless 20GB locker, the file sharing that barely works and can't preview video, and all that. All the cloud really is is a DRM system wrongly applied to local software.

i'm not surprised they might be getting confused and starting to wish they can simply return to the PR benefit of a yearly razzmatazz of a splashy CS6 launch, only in this case they don't actually have to sell it to a single existing customer.

man, I can't stand adobe. I'm not stating pejoratives against them - I just can't stand them as a company.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Gary Huff
Re: The Return of the perpetual license?
on Jun 3, 2014 at 8:32:43 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] " it was pretty clear from their use of language that 'with CC you will always be up to date'."

Yes, if you choose to be. I have installed every single update that has come down the pipe, but I had to manually select to install it. It sits there waiting until you want it, pretty much like Apple's App Store (both Mac and iTunes).

[Aindreas Gallagher] "bh the creative cloud 2 - or whatever that is - sounds semantically strange to me."

That's not what they are calling it. It's Photoshop CC 2014. Not Creative Cloud 2.0.

[Aindreas Gallagher] "
It seems as though they are floundering a little in terms of what CC means"


It's "floundering" because it's Adobe. If it was Microsoft, Apple, AVID, Grass Valley, Lightworks, etc. then it would be "experimenting", right?

[Aindreas Gallagher] "but a lot of it was post fact justification - see the meaningless 20GB locker"

I agree that I think Adobe would be better served by making a deal with Dropbox that gets you 100GB per month as part of your subscription instead of trying to do it themselves. Would help strengthen against Apple's iCloud digital locker announcement.

[Aindreas Gallagher] "All the cloud really is is a DRM system wrongly applied to local software."

So honor system then? No DRM? Or what DRM would you develop that wouldn't be a "wrongly applied"? Remember, paying per year gives you 99 days of no check-in.

[Aindreas Gallagher] "only in this case they don't actually have to sell it to a single existing customer."

Neither does Apple, but that didn't stop an expensive keynote that basically announced two new versions of free software.


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: The Return of the perpetual license?
on Jun 3, 2014 at 9:53:34 pm

[Gary Huff] "That's not what they are calling it. It's Photoshop CC 2014. Not Creative Cloud 2.0."

oh ok - is that what it is? I haven't seen that.


[Gary Huff] "So honor system then? No DRM?"

maybe - they need to find a way to change the conversation - the latest outage - forget this little pond - that garnered crazy amounts of increasingly serious negative analysis about what adobe are doing here. some of the voices felt new and sharp. that piece I linked to that amounted to a query for building spec code for hosted DRM seemed quite fresh.

[Gary Huff] "Neither does Apple, but that didn't stop an expensive keynote that basically announced two new versions of free software."

that's very true - but apple are in a far happier place with their customer base than adobe are. I know you think its overstated, but relative to apple I don't think it is.

apple didn't just lose control of the entire credit card base, they didn't make whatever component of their software you want to hypothetically pick an open ended subscription, and they didn't have the gateway login for that subscription service fail for 28 entire global hours.

Adobe are not in particularly good shape here running up to this event - there are things they are going to have to address or else feel a fresh run of new scrutiny about them having a tin ear to their glaring failures across security and basic competence.

I personally hope they ignore everything, and Mr. Narayen makes yet another saccharine address avoiding all the issues he is explicitly aware of.
That just merrily curdles the milk more.

If adobe are in fact inauthentic, and are led inauthentically, It's better that is broadly and clearly realised.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Gary Huff
Re: The Return of the perpetual license?
on Jun 3, 2014 at 11:49:01 pm
Last Edited By Gary Huff on Jun 3, 2014 at 11:49:38 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "oh ok - is that what it is? I haven't seen that."

From ProDesignTools:

Now, this question is answered. Adobe is moving forward with the CC name, and that won’t change. However, they are adding a calendar year identifier to the version name to distinguish it from earlier and future releases. So next month we’ll get the Photoshop CC 2014 release, together with all the other Creative Cloud tools. To map it into terms of the previous “Creative Suite” model, this would have been CS8.


Not sure where they are getting that (the official Adobe link is just for the announcement, but perhaps it's something you get in an email when you sign up?) but it makes sense to me.

[Aindreas Gallagher] "maybe - they need to find a way to change the conversation - the latest outage - forget this little pond - that garnered crazy amounts of increasingly serious negative analysis about what adobe are doing here."

I won't disagree with that, though I find the level of negativity to be a little much in regards to what actually went down, especially given that the certificate for the Mac App Store basically went the same direction for a period of 24 hours-ish. Though it wasn't quite as problematic, it did effect me, whereas the Adobe outage did not.

[Aindreas Gallagher] "that's very true - but apple are in a far happier place with their customer base than adobe are."

Won't argue with that.

[Aindreas Gallagher] "apple didn't just lose control of the entire credit card base"

True, but Apple and Amazon jointly gave control over someone's entire MacBook to a third-party. Now of course they fixed it, and they get a pass now apparently. But not Adobe. For something far less severe in my opinion. And also something they claimed they have fixed.

[Aindreas Gallagher] "I personally hope they ignore everything, and Mr. Narayen makes yet another saccharine address avoiding all the issues he is explicitly aware of.
That just merrily curdles the milk more."


You know if Narayen gets up there and offers perpetual access to the CC 2013 app version once 2014 goes live, this forum dies :-p


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Jim Wiseman
Re: The Return of the perpetual license?
on Jun 4, 2014 at 3:11:33 am
Last Edited By Jim Wiseman on Jun 4, 2014 at 3:20:22 am

[Gary Huff] "You know if Narayen gets up there and offers perpetual access to the CC 2013 app version once 2014 goes live, this forum dies :-p"

I think something like that has been the point of this forum, Gary. Annual access to Perpetual of the previous full version of Production Premium at a reasonable price (upgrades used to be in the $350-$400 range) would make most of us quite happy as that is the version most of used before CC. Of course the price would be whatever the market will bear, but annual upgrade pricing would have to be reasonable as well. Such an offer would certainly be welcomed. I doubt if he will be that perspicacious.

But I'm sure there will be reasons to keep this forum alive. We can always find something about Adobe to discuss given what has occurred over the past year and a half. "FCP X or Not: The Debate" has assumed a much different role, at least in part, than it had when it started.

Jim Wiseman
Sony PMW-EX1, Pana AJ-D810 DVCPro, DVX-100, Nikon D7000, Final Cut Pro X 10.1.1, Final Cut Studio 2 and 3, Media 100 Suite 2.1.5, Premiere Pro CS 5.5 and 6.0, AJA ioHD, AJA Kona LHi, Blackmagic Ultrastudio 4K, Blackmagic Teranex, Avid MC, 2013 Mac Pro Hexacore, 1 TB SSD, 64GB RAM, 2-D500: 2012 Hexacore MacPro 3.33 Ghz 24Gb RAM GTX-285 120GB SSD, Macbook Pro 17" 2011 2.2 Ghz Quadcore i7 16GB RAM 250GB SSD


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: The Return of the perpetual license?
on Jun 5, 2014 at 8:50:48 pm

[Gary Huff] "You know if Narayen gets up there and offers perpetual access to the CC 2013 app version once 2014 goes live, this forum dies :-p"

that would be fantastic - it's hard to keep coming up with ways to sling mud. There is an unhealthy aspect to swinging back in here continuously.
Joe Bourke made that point well - that he felt it was unhealthy to keep checking in here for the angry grist.
I personally agree - if nothing shifts pretty soon I reckon I'm out.
Worst comes to worst I'll probably do a PPro subscription before summer is out - I've got CS6 for everything else. Although I'd say there is boardroom timeline to close out everything below CC. Shantanyu really wants that money.

but overall doing this angry dance here feels like chewing on a bad bone or something. It's great the cow and tim allow these places - but I'm not sure its a great idea to participate past a point.

it's rumoured there is a lot to be said for reading a book or staring at the clouds. both seem tasty.
If adobe want to go to hell in a handbasket there is really not much to stop them.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Andrew Kimery
Re: The Return of the perpetual license?
on Jun 5, 2014 at 9:56:01 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "but overall doing this angry dance here feels like chewing on a bad bone or something. "

You know you don't have to be angry in order to post, right? ;)


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: The Return of the perpetual license?
on Jun 5, 2014 at 10:13:25 pm

sure mate - I post beatifically in plenty of places - but this isn't a talking shop - I'm personally in this to publicly debate throw anything I can find at adobe. hence periodically and endlessly trawling adobe news. no more than the rest of the guys.
It's a visibility forum to throw shots at them. this forum about has no other existence.

if adobe really are become this shantanyu thing - then they are. off bad blood they'll get rolled over eventually.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Jim Wiseman
Re: The Return of the perpetual license?
on Jun 6, 2014 at 1:05:33 am

I personally am not ready to roll over or disengage. Don't need Premiere enough for that. Did disappear for a couple of months or so, but felt guilty about it in a way. Workflow, I'm using CS6 PP for preparation of ProRes from other codecs, color correction, legalization and titles and finishing in Media 100 2.1.5 on the new Mac Pro as of now. Works fine for me and my documentaries. Will run on four of my current Macs, and puts out a clean ProRes master and XML. Should last quite a while.

I know you truly dislike FCP X , Aindreas, but I am learning it and find it quite adequate for my needs, even quite enjoyable, especially on my new Mac Pro. By the time my current workflow no longer works, Premiere CS6 will be a thing of the past for me. I might just spend more time on FCP X Techniques, and "FCPX of Not: the Debate" rather than popping off here. But I really don't want to see Adobe get away with this farce. A reprobate or two isn't going to shut me up. Not you, Aindreas, I think you know to what I refer. Just not responding in that direction any longer.

Putting out ideas for alternatives and expressing dissatisfaction with Adobe in this case is important, I think. I'd sooner improvise than give another dime to the Adobe rental model. I want access to my work in the future without paying ransom for it. So not even a single app subscription to PP here. Just my opinion.

Jim Wiseman
Sony PMW-EX1, Pana AJ-D810 DVCPro, DVX-100, Nikon D7000, Final Cut Pro X 10.1.1, Final Cut Studio 2 and 3, Media 100 Suite 2.1.5, Premiere Pro CS 5.5 and 6.0, AJA ioHD, AJA Kona LHi, Blackmagic Ultrastudio 4K, Blackmagic Teranex, Avid MC, 2013 Mac Pro Hexacore, 1 TB SSD, 64GB RAM, 2-D500: 2012 Hexacore MacPro 3.33 Ghz 24Gb RAM GTX-285 120GB SSD, Macbook Pro 17" 2011 2.2 Ghz Quadcore i7 16GB RAM 250GB SSD


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Andrew Kimery
Re: The Return of the perpetual license?
on Jun 6, 2014 at 2:32:15 am

[Jim Wiseman] "I personally am not ready to roll over or disengage.
.
.
.
Putting out ideas for alternatives and expressing dissatisfaction with Adobe in this case is important...


I'm not suggesting anyone should wave a white flag, just that there's no valid reason that this forum has to be one of anger. If there are specific posters that make your blood boil then just don't respond to them. I know it's hard not to, especially if they say something you think is utterly ridiculous, but the cycle can be broken.

To be honest I think taking to facebook or twitter (or even a continuous supply of official feature requests) would be a more effective means of getting Adobe's attention. This forum is such a predictable maelstrom that no one really needs to keep a constant eye on it to know what's going on (god bless Todd and Kevin for doing so anyways).


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Jim Wiseman
Re: The Return of the perpetual license?
on Jun 6, 2014 at 4:41:29 am

Anger is not my motive. Mostly just disappointment. Totally agree. Just think that keeping up a background of honest representative dissatisfaction is important. This forum is an unusually concentrated group of professional users whose opinions are respected. Would hate to see us roll over to a rental model. Just glad we have this forum. Myopia is contagious. I have very thick skin.

Jim Wiseman
Sony PMW-EX1, Pana AJ-D810 DVCPro, DVX-100, Nikon D7000, Final Cut Pro X 10.1.1, Final Cut Studio 2 and 3, Media 100 Suite 2.1.5, Premiere Pro CS 5.5 and 6.0, AJA ioHD, AJA Kona LHi, Blackmagic Ultrastudio 4K, Blackmagic Teranex, Avid MC, 2013 Mac Pro Hexacore, 1 TB SSD, 64GB RAM, 2-D500: 2012 Hexacore MacPro 3.33 Ghz 24Gb RAM GTX-285 120GB SSD, Macbook Pro 17" 2011 2.2 Ghz Quadcore i7 16GB RAM 250GB SSD


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Franz Bieberkopf
Re: The Return of the perpetual license?
on Jun 3, 2014 at 12:46:41 am

[Andrew Kimery] "I'm not sure why anyone thought major releases and version numbers were a thing of the past."

Andrew,

Personally this has just clarified what we've suspected anyway.

http://forums.creativecow.net/readpost/378/7565
http://forums.creativecow.net/readpost/378/5832

But I think the impact of this has to do with the ideas that have formed around continuous updates vs. "packaged" versions. Walter has argued that one of the advantages of the CC model is a more organic approach to feature and stability updates (ie. continuous and ongoing). If, in fact, there are milestone versions each year with additional updates throughout the year then that starts to sound very much like the development and marketing cycles that we know from Creative Suite.

It blunts a certain argument in favour of CC.

Or to restate: how will this be meaningfully different from the (obsolete) 5.0 and 5.5 cycle?


Franz


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Jim Wiseman
Re: The Return of the perpetual license?
on Jun 3, 2014 at 3:55:10 am
Last Edited By Jim Wiseman on Jun 3, 2014 at 3:57:05 am

This truly sounds like the old Creative Suite Model of annual numbered benchmark releases with point updates for bug fixes or minor feature additions. Except now they have year numbers instead of integers, 6, 7, 8, etc. The big difference seems to be we have the requirement of paying forever to have access to the software and our work. Combined with outages for unknown reasons and the requirement for keeping poorly secured credit cards on file. This is supposed to be an advantage? I have two bridges I would like to sell you...

Jim Wiseman
Sony PMW-EX1, Pana AJ-D810 DVCPro, DVX-100, Nikon D7000, Final Cut Pro X 10.1.1, Final Cut Studio 2 and 3, Media 100 Suite 2.1.5, Premiere Pro CS 5.5 and 6.0, AJA ioHD, AJA Kona LHi, Blackmagic Ultrastudio 4K, Blackmagic Teranex, Avid MC, 2013 Mac Pro Hexacore, 1 TB SSD, 64GB RAM, 2-D500: 2012 Hexacore MacPro 3.33 Ghz 24Gb RAM GTX-285 120GB SSD, Macbook Pro 17" 2011 2.2 Ghz Quadcore i7 16GB RAM 250GB SSD


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Andrew Kimery
Re: The Return of the perpetual license?
on Jun 3, 2014 at 6:33:10 am

[Chris Pettit] "That's what we were told Andrew. "

By whom? When did anyone from Adobe say they were doing away with version numbers, marketing and big changes to their software?

Again, the advantage people were talking about was releasing upgrades whenever as opposed to being forced to release early to make an arbitrary deadline or not release at all until the next version. If the AE team is working on something but it won't be ready until August that's totally fine 'cause they can still release it August even though 'something big' is happening in June. Under the CS model they would've had to rush it out the door or hold off until the next CS suite. I really have no idea how providing feature upgrades year round is somehow the exact same thing as providing feature upgrades once a year.

It's no secret that Adobe (just like pretty much every software company) continues to have roadmaps, milestones and versioning so I'm at a loss as to why people find this shocking. Hell, there was recently an extensive conversation in this forum about going back and opening up projects from years ago and Adobe's versioning of it's software was a big part of that discussion.


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Gary Huff
Re: The Return of the perpetual license?
on Jun 3, 2014 at 12:58:25 pm
Last Edited By Gary Huff on Jun 3, 2014 at 12:59:52 pm

[Jim Wiseman] "the requirement for keeping poorly secured credit cards on file."

Surprised you are still touting this line. I can walk into a Best Buy and purchase an entire year of Creative Cloud and never give Adobe my credit card number. Do I need to continually remind you of this?

By the way, do you still shop at Target? Amazon? eBay?


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Oliver Peters
Re: The Return of the perpetual license?
on Jun 3, 2014 at 2:19:35 pm

I think folks are reading too much into this release if they think it has anything to do with going back to a perpetual license.

Although development cycles don't need a big annual release, company marketing does. You have to keep users and new adopters invigorated. Look at Apple. OS updates are free, yet we just had a big preview of Yosemite, which appears more incremental (thank goodness) than revolutionary.

The next CC version seems to be all about performance and operational enhancements. A continually flowing series of updates would tend to be a mess. Just look at Microsoft's constant and cryptic Windows patches.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Chris Pettit
Re: The Return of the perpetual license?
on Jun 3, 2014 at 3:06:03 pm

[Oliver Peters] "I think folks are reading too much into this release if they think it has anything to do with going back to a perpetual license."

I don't think anyone does.


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Gary Huff
Re: The Return of the perpetual license?
on Jun 3, 2014 at 3:17:30 pm

[Chris Pettit] "I don't think anyone does."

Really? Given the title of this thread, that's your reply?


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Chris Pettit
Re: The Return of the perpetual license?
on Jun 3, 2014 at 3:22:59 pm

[Gary Huff] "[Chris Pettit] "I don't think anyone does."

Really? Given the title of this thread, that's your reply?"


I assumed that Steve's post title was tongue and cheek, perhaps I misunderstood him. Certainly no one else believes this


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Gary Huff
Re: The Return of the perpetual license?
on Jun 3, 2014 at 4:53:05 pm

[Chris Pettit] "Certainly no one else believes this"

Ah, No True Scotsman, huh? Was waiting for that one.


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Walter Soyka
Re: The Return of the perpetual license?
on Jun 3, 2014 at 5:01:15 pm

[Chris Pettit] "I assumed that Steve's post title was tongue and cheek, perhaps I misunderstood him. Certainly no one else believes this"

It seems that humour doesn't always translate across the Atlantic. Something about that extra U perhaps?

Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive [twitter]   |   RenderBreak [blog]   |   Profile [LinkedIn]


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Steve Connor
Re: The Return of the perpetual license?
on Jun 3, 2014 at 5:44:34 pm

[Chris Pettit] "I assumed that Steve's post title was tongue and cheek, perhaps I misunderstood him. Certainly no one else believes this"

That was the intention!

Steve Connor
Mellowing slowly


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Dave LaRonde
Re: The Return of the perpetual license?
on Jun 3, 2014 at 6:35:10 pm

I think it's kind of cute that Adobe feels compelled to resort to the marketing practices of the past when they don't have to.

If creative cloud represents a way for the software to just evolve -- rather than issuing a new release with iffy but glitzy features -- why bother with a big announcement? What would be different: a bug fix or something like it? Now, there's a letdown!

If the intent of the Big Announcement is to gather in new renters, they'll probably expect to see something really new, befitting the hoopla behind something like a Big Announcement. I wonder if they will? If they do see really new things, across several applications, isn't that counter-evolutionary... which goes against the grain of this new way of doing business? It implies that Adobe's been saving up its improvements to make a big splash.

Or is it just to mark a point in time, so people who write how-to books can keep selling them?

I for one am not anxiously counting down the days to find out.

Dave LaRonde
Promotion Producer
KGAN (CBS) & KFXA (Fox) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: The Return of the perpetual license?
on Jun 3, 2014 at 7:19:58 pm

thinking about it - even if they were tempted, that could unleash shareholder hell - the one thing that keeping that share price up in the face of cratered profits is the assumption that adobe is indeed going to railroad the base into perpetual subscription - AKA - the wall street money train.

If they did partially back down they'd be eaten alive, which, lets face it, would be great - company torn apart by hubris, overreaching corporate greed and then doubt, many suitors for the software, shantanyu narayan never to be heard of again.

that's a crack out the bubbly day right there.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Ricardo Marty
Re: The Return of the perpetual license?
on Jun 3, 2014 at 7:20:10 pm

we got to remember that they are close to announcing 2nd qt results. there have been no mayor sale announced so it could be they reached the projections or they cant continue major discounts and are counting on this to drag subscrribers in.

ricardo marty


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Gary Huff
Re: The Return of the perpetual license?
on Jun 3, 2014 at 8:33:41 pm

[Ricardo Marty] "we got to remember that they are close to announcing 2nd qt results. there have been no mayor sale announced so it could be they reached the projections"

I remember the predictions here that CC wouldn't hit its subscriber goals by the end of the year. The results are why I would never take stock advice from anyone on here.


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Florian Sepp
Re: The Return of the perpetual license?
on Jun 4, 2014 at 7:16:46 am

[Gary Huff] "I remember the predictions here that CC wouldn't hit its subscriber goals by the end of the year. The results are why I would never take stock advice from anyone on here."

you are right they get the numbers. on several news sites in germany you could read that Shantanu Narayen said he thinks cc would get 3 millions till end of the year. and then he said: earlier the company tried to get turnover. today they try to get customers. (translated)
well... this somehow doesen't sound like a compleete success story.
but offcorse everyone reads what he wants to read :)

link (german): http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/Adobe-Chef-rechnet-mit-3-Millionen-C...

Florian Sepp visual arts
http://www.floriansepp.com


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Ricardo Marty
Re: The Return of the perpetual license?
on Jun 4, 2014 at 10:29:00 am

they might the the numbers but not the cash.

ricardo marty


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Jim Wiseman
Re: The Return of the perpetual license?
on Jun 3, 2014 at 9:07:57 pm
Last Edited By Jim Wiseman on Jun 3, 2014 at 9:25:21 pm

[Gary Huff] Surprised you are still touting this line. I can walk into a Best Buy and purchase an entire year of Creative Cloud and never give Adobe my credit card number. Do I need to continually remind you of this?

By the way, do you still shop at Target? Amazon? eBay?



Thanks so much for the reminder Gary, I rely on you for advice. No Best Buy or Target on Kauai. Certainly wouldn't use Target now. Never been to a Best Buy. More nature here than shopping malls. PayPal for one $15.00 eBay purchase. My bank and I watch that one. Use Amazon because of free shipping, which is ridiculously expensive to Hawaii, using a credit card I had to have changed because of the Adobe debacle. A week or so after that was revealed a large charge for a Skype call I supposedly made from Norway appeared, so that card is fresh thanks to Adobe. Amex is excellent regarding fraud, thankfully. BTW, Adobe no longer has it.

Jim Wiseman
Sony PMW-EX1, Pana AJ-D810 DVCPro, DVX-100, Nikon D7000, Final Cut Pro X 10.1.1, Final Cut Studio 2 and 3, Media 100 Suite 2.1.5, Premiere Pro CS 5.5 and 6.0, AJA ioHD, AJA Kona LHi, Blackmagic Ultrastudio 4K, Blackmagic Teranex, Avid MC, 2013 Mac Pro Hexacore, 1 TB SSD, 64GB RAM, 2-D500: 2012 Hexacore MacPro 3.33 Ghz 24Gb RAM GTX-285 120GB SSD, Macbook Pro 17" 2011 2.2 Ghz Quadcore i7 16GB RAM 250GB SSD


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Gary Huff
Re: The Return of the perpetual license?
on Jun 3, 2014 at 11:45:19 pm

[Jim Wiseman] "Amex is excellent regarding fraud, thankfully. BTW, Adobe no longer has it."

That's great! Adobe still has my Amex. No issues.


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Jan Janowski
Re: The Return of the perpetual license?
on Jun 14, 2014 at 9:52:02 pm

OOPS!!! Silly me... Clicked on link, and then remembered I don't have a CC login!! :)!

Hope I can deduce what the idea was!

Looking for 1939 Indian Motocycle


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