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Adobe losing a potential big broadcast client with rental only

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Andy Field
Adobe losing a potential big broadcast client with rental only
on Apr 30, 2014 at 5:39:24 pm

Just spoke with editing supervisor at major network Owned station group - saying their FCP 7 is so antiquated they need a new system but their policy is they won't rent software....so CC is out of the question...they're looking at CS6 ..but the editor's telling them CC is far superior. Nothing doing says corporate...unless they can buy the software they won't do it.

Big loss for Adobe (ant the station group's editors) as this would be several hundred seats of Premiere Pro ....so they're now looking at Vegas, Avid etc....


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Oliver Peters
Re: Adobe losing a potential big broadcast client with rental only
on Apr 30, 2014 at 6:57:58 pm

[Andy Field] "Big loss for Adobe (ant the station group's editors) as this would be several hundred seats of Premiere Pro ....so they're now looking at Vegas, Avid etc...."

With Avid they still have to pay for an annual support/update contract now, unless they plan to live with that version for a few years. How does that factor in?

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Dave LaRonde
Re: Adobe losing a potential big broadcast client with rental only
on Apr 30, 2014 at 9:10:57 pm

If you're talking about a couple of hundred seats of an editing application, Avid just might counsider negotiating on that update contract. That's something a single user can't do.

I know the group that owns my station negotiated with Adobe on Creative Cloud applications. It's too bad that I don't know the terms.

Dave LaRonde
Promotion Producer
KGAN (CBS) & KFXA (Fox) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Andy Field
Re: Adobe losing a potential big broadcast client with rental only
on Apr 30, 2014 at 10:02:29 pm

Frankly i think it's short sighted...i may be in the minority of loving CC......constant updates and improvements rather than waiting for an arbitrary - here's enough new goodies to get you to buy the upgrade each year...which we virtually always did.....and the annual subscription comes out to about the same price.....

plus Premiere CC is lightyears better, faster and feature rich than CS 6

Andy Field
FieldVision Productions
N. Bethesda, Maryland 20852


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Gabe Strong
Re: Adobe losing a potential big broadcast client with rental only
on May 1, 2014 at 6:03:43 am
Last Edited By Gabe Strong on May 1, 2014 at 6:07:05 am

See that's the thing. For those of 'you' who bought the updates every year, yeah maybe it's a wash...
But there are plenty of us who didn't buy the updates every year. Some TV station groups are notorious for
holding onto and using older gear, because it is paid off and making them money.....I tend to do it myself. And I find it a bit.....annoying when those who like CC try to tell the rest of us that we are 'shortsighted'. Everyone is different, have different markets, business models and so on. And that is one of the problems. Adobe is trying a 'one size fits all' approach. Judging from the very existence of this forum, CC does not 'fit all' and has in fact alienated some previously loyal customers....who obviously weren't loyal enough because they refused to buy every update, but instead 'chose' when enough new features were added to justify them giving Adobe more money.

Gabe Strong
G-Force Productions
http://www.gforcevideo.com


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Michael Hendrix
Re: Adobe losing a potential big broadcast client with rental only
on May 1, 2014 at 3:35:55 pm

Gabe, I haven't seen much support for CC on this forum and while you say it is annoying when supporters call non-supporters shortsighted, I find it more annoying when people who are against CC to call those of us who like it, fools, morons and stupid.

If anything, most of us who support the subscription model, agree that it is not for everyone and wish Adobe would come up with a plan to address concerns so we can all go on our merry way enjoying the tools that we choose to use.

The company that I work for has just finished signing a contract with Adobe (took about a year) so we will be on CC soon.



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David Mathis
Re: Adobe losing a potential big broadcast client with rental only
on May 1, 2014 at 4:11:46 pm

Completely agree with you there. My reason not to join is a business decision, nothing personal. I have nothing against anyone who likes CC or finds it works for them. Everyone is different and CC is not for everyone. I found what works for me and don't mind spending time to sit down with others to discuss this topic. The last thing I would ever do is act in a churlish manner. I do my best to keep an open mind but when someone starts talking down to others what useful purpose does that serve?

My two cents, whatever it is worth.


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Dave LaRonde
Re: Adobe losing a potential big broadcast client with rental only
on May 1, 2014 at 6:04:33 pm

Good. Hope it was good deal. Now cross your fingers and hope your company doesn't bail because that contract was just too great an expense.

Bean-counters who don't know the score like to pull stunts like that.

Dave LaRonde
Promotion Producer
KGAN (CBS) & KFXA (Fox) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Oliver Peters
Re: Adobe losing a potential big broadcast client with rental only
on May 1, 2014 at 7:02:35 pm

[Dave LaRonde] "Bean-counters who don't know the score like to pull stunts like that."

There are other factors that don't get mentioned a lot. The subscription model shifts the payment to a monthly operating expense instead of a capital expenditures. No more annual begging for a capital budget. For many companies, this can also be beneficial from a tax standpoint. Bean-counters like that.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Rich Rubasch
Re: Adobe losing a potential big broadcast client with rental only
on May 1, 2014 at 9:08:29 pm

I just looked at pricing with rental and I need four seats of CC on 6-8 total computers. at the introductory rate I will pay $200/month or $2400 per year. If I lock in for two years I will pay Adobe $4800 in two years.

In two years time, if the new rate goes up to even $89/month (likely) then I am looking at $4300 per year for the licenses. Anyone else doing this math on four or more seats?

There is no way I was or will pay that much for this software year over year. We are talking the old Softimage pricing of years gone by.

Not to mention the fact that we would ONLY be using AfterEffects, Photoshop, Illustrator (rarely) and Premier (not thrilled).

The rest sit on the drives.

Solutions like FCP X at their perpetual price point sure do look all the better, or Davinci Resolve if the editor pans out.

Retooling to all PCs and running Vegas is looking more appealing.

Did I just type that?

Rich Rubasch
Tilt Media Inc.
Video Production, Post, Studio Sound Stage
Founder/President/Editor/Designer/Animator
http://www.tiltmedia.com


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Michael Hendrix
Re: Adobe losing a potential big broadcast client with rental only
on May 1, 2014 at 9:46:56 pm

I don't know if I understand, not trying to defend subscription but, perpetual you would spend $1800 per seat X 4 = $7200 out of the gate?



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Rich Rubasch
Re: Adobe losing a potential big broadcast client with rental only
on May 2, 2014 at 12:32:24 am

We only use Production Premium which was much less. And I only had two seats of Production Premium. I had one other seat with only AE and Photoshop. Both Perpetual, and upgraded about every other cycle. In the first two years of CC I would spend as much as I did in probably the previous 5 years, because of our upgrade cycle. In the next two years on CC with the normal rate I would probably spend more money on CC than all software I have purchased over the last ten years combined.

And most of that CC software would go unused, or little used.

Seems like I'm backed into a corner with this deal. Give me a price on the Production Premium suite only at a lower rate like I was using previously and we can talk. Or a perpetual "buy out" if we choose to stop the subscription so at least I have a lifeline with legacy projects. Don't make me re-up a subscription to modify one project.

Rich Rubasch
Tilt Media Inc.
Video Production, Post, Studio Sound Stage
Founder/President/Editor/Designer/Animator
http://www.tiltmedia.com


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Oliver Peters
Re: Adobe losing a potential big broadcast client with rental only
on May 2, 2014 at 12:41:18 am

I'm not sure what numbers you were using, but at retail Production Premium CS6 was $1700 or $1800 as I recall.

From what was discussed before, you can install 1 CC seat onto 2 computers, which was not possible previously with Prod Prem, if you wanted to run them simultaneously.

I don't think it is fair to use a measure where you had a piecemeal distribution of software on various computers with irregular upgrades and expect Adobe to package CC for you in the same way.

In fairness, this is the negotiation many large users (like broadcast groups and universities) are also having with Adobe. That's why some of these deals are taking a year to flesh out and in most cases, they end up with uniform seats of CC.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Rich Rubasch
Re: Adobe losing a potential big broadcast client with rental only
on May 2, 2014 at 3:49:19 am

I have owned some version of Adobe's products going way back to AE 3.0 and have the original Photoshop 2.5 installer discs on floppy.

So along the way I was doing mostly upgrades and my Production Premium's go back to the original CS when it first came out. So I never needed to pay for the full version since it was an upgrade from a previous suite and I did them only as we needed the updates.

I'm one of those long time users who can see the difference between doing upgrades along the way as needed and being stuck in an endless subscription for a suite that we use only a portion of.

CC does not allow for just Production Premium or upgrading as needed, and believe me, it will cost our small company a trailer load more than upgrading only the software (or suite) we use, especially after they have us in their iron grip and the monthly rates go up!

Rich Rubasch
Tilt Media Inc.
Video Production, Post, Studio Sound Stage
Founder/President/Editor/Designer/Animator
http://www.tiltmedia.com


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Oliver Peters
Re: Adobe losing a potential big broadcast client with rental only
on May 2, 2014 at 1:51:21 pm
Last Edited By Oliver Peters on May 2, 2014 at 1:51:57 pm

At this point, the fear of the price going up (excluding promo deals) is simply FUD. Nevertheless, your options are only to go CC, run CS6 into the ground, or change to other software.

Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Dino Sanacory
Re: Adobe losing a potential big broadcast client with rental only
on May 15, 2014 at 6:43:53 pm
Last Edited By Dino Sanacory on May 15, 2014 at 6:44:44 pm

At this point, not expecting the price to go up is simply wishful thinking.


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Walter Soyka
Re: Adobe losing a potential big broadcast client with rental only
on May 2, 2014 at 2:04:13 pm

[Rich Rubasch] "So along the way I was doing mostly upgrades and my Production Premium's go back to the original CS when it first came out. So I never needed to pay for the full version since it was an upgrade from a previous suite and I did them only as we needed the updates. I'm one of those long time users who can see the difference between doing upgrades along the way as needed and being stuck in an endless subscription for a suite that we use only a portion of."

You can't really compare this to that.

Before they went to CC, Adobe was dropping support for upgrades on products more than one version old -- meaning you could upgrade from CS6 to CS7, but you couldn't upgrade from CS5 to CS7; you'd have to buy a whole new license.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Rich Rubasch
Re: Adobe losing a potential big broadcast client with rental only
on May 2, 2014 at 2:52:50 pm

I am only comparing my particular past experience with how we navigated Adobe's software products and our singular choice that we have today. In my case, the cost will be tremendously higher than what we were used to.

I don't think $80 per month for the entire CC in two years is unlikely....conjecture, sure, but not unlikely. If I pay Adobe $4000 per year and use three apps in CC am I getting feature updates that makes a four-seat system worthwhile for the cost? We use other software too so there are those costs.

At $85/month, each installed CC seat equals $1000/year for Adobe. Seems others have done the math and they are questioning the value.

And that is very scary for me right now....because it is a decision that will steer all future projects that we create for clients going forward. I want to make the right decision because we have a great 14 year track record with software decisions and this one is a biggie for a company like ours.

Rich Rubasch
Tilt Media Inc.
Video Production, Post, Studio Sound Stage
Founder/President/Editor/Designer/Animator
http://www.tiltmedia.com


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Dave LaRonde
Re: Adobe losing a potential big broadcast client with rental only
on May 2, 2014 at 4:49:15 pm
Last Edited By Dave LaRonde on May 2, 2014 at 5:02:15 pm

[Rich Rubasch]: "...it is a decision that will steer all future projects that we create for clients going forward."

Yes, I'm wondering about the future under Creative Cloud too. I'm particularly concerned about revisiting legacy projects. Here's my disturbing scenario:

It's the year 2020. You've been running CC for more than 6 years now. You get a call from a longtime client who expects you to unearth a HUGE job you did for him in 2014.

It shouldn't be a problem because you're organized! You've been burned before and learned your lessons. You have everything archived: media, project files, legacy codecs, the works. You even have a legacy machine running a legacy OS... but hold on! Those project files are from 2014. How do you open them up? Will the CC of 2020 be compatible with CC project files from 2014?

YOUR CLIENT COULD CARE LESS ABOUT THIS ISSUE. HE WANTS RESULTS, AND HE WANTS THEM NOW. HE JUST TOLD YOU, "MAKE IT SO OR LOSE MY BUSINESS."

If you don't think clients make off-the-wall demands like this, you're living in a dream world. This is SOLIDLY in the "hey, it could happen" category.

If Adobe has an answer for this conundrum, I certainly haven't heard about it. Can anyone enlighten me?

Dave LaRonde
Promotion Producer
KGAN (CBS) & KFXA (Fox) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Walter Soyka
Re: Adobe losing a potential big broadcast client with rental only
on May 2, 2014 at 5:15:30 pm

[Dave LaRonde] "You have everything archived: media, project files, legacy codecs, the works. You even have a legacy machine running a legacy OS... but hold on! Those project files are from 2014. How do you open them up? Will the CC of 2020 be compatible with CC project files from 2014? ... If Adobe has an answer for this conundrum, I certainly haven't heard about it. Can anyone enlighten me?"

Even if you assume for the sake of argument that Adobe will abandon their policy of maintaining backward compatibility for several versions, Creative Cloud subscribers have access to older versions of CC software. From the Creative Cloud FAQ [link]:

Do Creative Cloud members have access to previous versions of Creative Cloud apps?

Yes. Creative Cloud paid members have access to a select set of archived versions of the desktop apps. Starting with CS6, select versions of each of the desktop creative apps will be archived and available for download. Archived versions are provided "as is" and are not updated to work with the latest hardware and software platforms.


Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Dave LaRonde
Re: Adobe losing a potential big broadcast client with rental only
on May 2, 2014 at 5:49:34 pm

Please notice the marketing weasel phrase they use in that FAQ entry: "select set". In other words, "we make no guarantees that we'll have the legacy software you happen to need."

That doesn't put my mind at ease, and it shouldn't put yours at ease, either.... but perhaps your faith is stronger than mine that a big corporation would not invoke a weasel phrase.

Dave LaRonde
Promotion Producer
KGAN (CBS) & KFXA (Fox) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Michael Hendrix
Re: Adobe losing a potential big broadcast client with rental only
on May 2, 2014 at 6:04:28 pm

This scenario is not just and Adobe or subscription vs perpetual problem. The only way to guarantee that you can edit a 2014 project in 2020 is to keep the system in its 2014 state, no upgrades on either hardware or software, for ever and ever. (Or keep a system image on LTO, restore, pay your $75 monthly usage fee and edit)

Editing something today on Media Composer 7 perpetual today, may or may not work in 2020.

Thats why you, save projects, xmls, versions with supers, without supers, music mixed/nonmixed, etc.

I fully understand your argument, but it bears the same question of "How many backups are enough?" The answer, there are never enough.



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Dave LaRonde
Re: Adobe losing a potential big broadcast client with rental only
on May 2, 2014 at 6:15:37 pm

[Michael Hendrix]: "This scenario is not just...
(Or keep a system image on LTO, restore, pay your $75 monthly usage fee and edit)


Baloney. Nonsense. As I write this, I am no further than a 20-minute drive from a guy who maintains a Media 100 v. 6 system on a PowerMac, and on those rare occasions when people MUST have an archival shot in the M100 codec, he rubs his hands in evil glee and changes them through the nose for it.

Furthermore, I'm glad your crystal ball allows you to see that a mere monthly usage fee will solve all your problems down the road. Misplaced trust, perhaps?

Dave LaRonde
Promotion Producer
KGAN (CBS) & KFXA (Fox) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Walter Soyka
Re: Adobe losing a potential big broadcast client with rental only
on May 2, 2014 at 7:13:26 pm

[Dave LaRonde] "Baloney. Nonsense. As I write this, I am no further than a 20-minute drive from a guy who maintains a Media 100 v. 6 system on a PowerMac, and on those rare occasions when people MUST have an archival shot in the M100 codec, he rubs his hands in evil glee and changes them through the nose for it."

Aren't you kind of making my point now? If the six-year-old project is actually important again, it's worth paying for.

And far better to pay $75 for one month to access a file than pay that guy down the road, or pay $1000 for a new M100 license. (Of course, you could also do a free trial on either CC or M100.)

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Andy Field
Re: Adobe losing a potential big broadcast client with rental only
on May 2, 2014 at 7:16:06 pm

Dave LaRonde
on those rare occasions when people MUST have an archival shot in the M100 codec, he rubs his hands in evil glee and changes them through the nose for it.

This is funny! It's ok for your friend to charge people through the nose for an "update" but not ok for Adobe to guarantee a revenue stream with subscription software. Perfect!

Andy Field
FieldVision Productions
N. Bethesda, Maryland 20852


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Dave LaRonde
Re: Adobe losing a potential big broadcast client with rental only
on May 2, 2014 at 7:49:50 pm

...the point being, M100 files can still be accessed, guaranteed. How about Adobe CC? That's up in the air.

Dave LaRonde
Promotion Producer
KGAN (CBS) & KFXA (Fox) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Walter Soyka
Re: Adobe losing a potential big broadcast client with rental only
on May 2, 2014 at 7:57:06 pm

[Dave LaRonde] "...the point being, M100 files can still be accessed, guaranteed. How about Adobe CC? That's up in the air."

If Adobe stops making old CC downloads available, and if Adobe ends backwards compatibility in their apps -- both of which would make their subscription offering less appealing, even to those of us who are happy with subscription.

But this is a fundamental problem of digital archival. Old stuff loses commercial support, and then working hardware becomes rarer and rarer. Eventually, the last working unit will stop working, and then the format will be extinct.

The best solution here is the same as it is for media: update it every now and then while you know you can. If you open and save out that big project from six years ago every now and then, you'll keep it up to date. Same idea as digitizing those old Beta tapes -- keep moving important content to modern formats to make it easier to open in the future.

Personally, I think the best solution to the problem you raise is an open data format, not a perpetual license. I've been advocating for this.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Walter Soyka
Re: Adobe losing a potential big broadcast client with rental only
on May 2, 2014 at 7:09:37 pm

[Dave LaRonde] "Please notice the marketing weasel phrase they use in that FAQ entry: "select set". In other words, "we make no guarantees that we'll have the legacy software you happen to need." That doesn't put my mind at ease, and it shouldn't put yours at ease, either.... but perhaps your faith is stronger than mine that a big corporation would not invoke a weasel phrase."

I knew you would say this...

I also knew that since you're not a Creative Cloud customer yourself, you wouldn't know what this has actually meant so far. I can download a major version of CS6 and CC -- but not every individual point release within each major release. That's the "select set."

Will those downloads go away someday? Maybe. Then maybe I'll have a problem re-working an old project if it comes back.

But let me throw a couple what-ifs back at you.

What if you stay on legacy software, and someone brings in a new media format that you can't read? Or what if someone asks you for a project that's easy to complete with a new workflow, but is a major struggle with legacy workarounds?

Frankly, I don't get all these "but what if someday in the future" scenarios. The future is uncertain, and I don't see that perpetual licenses don't do much to change that. I wouldn't want to be stuck today on, say, CS4. That's why we keep upgrading from legacy software, isn't it?

In my opinion, the everyday advantages of the tools in CC outweigh the what-if-maybe-someday problems brought up here.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Dave LaRonde
Re: Adobe losing a potential big broadcast client with rental only
on May 6, 2014 at 2:11:29 am

Well, if you don't LIKE what someone is doing, does it make sense to keep quiet about it or to make a big stink about it?

Sincerely,
Stinky

Dave LaRonde
Promotion Producer
KGAN (CBS) & KFXA (Fox) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Gary Huff
Re: Adobe losing a potential big broadcast client with rental only
on May 9, 2014 at 3:37:28 pm

[Dave LaRonde] "Well, if you don't LIKE what someone is doing, does it make sense to keep quiet about it or to make a big stink about it?"

Yes, but when your "make a big stink" starts to be misinformed and full of ridiculous, it doesn't do anything except paint a perception of you.


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Jim Wiseman
Re: Adobe losing a potential big broadcast client with rental only
on May 9, 2014 at 7:25:00 pm

Seems as if we are all painting perceptions…

Jim Wiseman
Sony PMW-EX1, Pana AJ-D810 DVCPro, DVX-100, Nikon D7000, Final Cut Pro X 10.1.1, Final Cut Studio 2 and 3, Media 100 Suite 2.1.5, Premiere Pro CS 5.5 and 6.0, AJA ioHD, AJA Kona LHi, Blackmagic Ultrastudio 4K, Avid MC, 2013 Mac Pro Hexacore, 1 TB SSD, 64GB RAM, 2-D500: 2012 Hexacore MacPro 3.33 Ghz 24Gb RAM GTX-285 120GB SSD, Macbook Pro 17" 2011 2.2 Ghz Quadcore i7 16GB RAM 250GB SSD


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: Adobe losing a potential big broadcast client with rental only
on May 10, 2014 at 12:46:22 am

[Gary Huff] "Yes, but when your "make a big stink" starts to be misinformed and full of ridiculous, "

my ass.

enough with the polite crappy bullying - however you phrase it there is a problem here.
ownership works are in process creative works. that entire process of generation is now a rental scheme.

our access Gary, to our so-called transformative actions on the brief now potentially exist within a rental schema.
not that I am saying everyone is horribly stupid, it's more you might fear for people's specific stupidity.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Gary Huff
Re: Adobe losing a potential big broadcast client with rental only
on May 11, 2014 at 1:12:22 pm
Last Edited By Gary Huff on May 11, 2014 at 1:14:30 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "enough with the polite crappy bullying"

Yes, yes, let's call that "bullying", thus continuing to drive that term into the ground until it becomes absolutely meaningless.

"He was bullying me online!"

"You mean he stalked you, called your phone in the early morning hours, SWATTed you, kept having pizzas you didn't order delivered to your house, sent you death threats from puppet accounts, and so on?"

"No, he said he thought certain people were full of it!"

"...!"


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: Adobe losing a potential big broadcast client with rental only
on May 11, 2014 at 8:17:25 pm

well I'm personally OK with pizza. that's a fun surprise.

also - on the thing - sure who's mis-informed?
god knows if anything there is an exhaustive trawling of the tealeaves on adobe's intent and financial model here.

I don't think this place amounts to fart gag stink, but there is nevertheless something still of a stink. adobe didn't get out of NAB completely unscathed after all. half scathed really depending on what you believe in terms of the hits they took on the floor and at the presentation.

there's no way to tell what, if any, impact negative vibes have on this, the clearest stuff is the numbers and they still look OK - but I think there is a lot unsaid on the actual nature of the subs to date, and the degree of mass freebies and discounts adobe have been firing out like they did in vegas at the photoshop thing.

social opprobrium is a funny thing if you can get it going. In the end this isn't wailing for the sake of it, it's an attempt to alter the deal for the better.
consumer activism wasn't exactly born yesterday.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Gary Huff
Re: Adobe losing a potential big broadcast client with rental only
on May 12, 2014 at 2:00:06 pm
Last Edited By Gary Huff on May 12, 2014 at 2:00:39 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "god knows if anything there is an exhaustive trawling of the tealeaves on adobe's intent and financial model here."

Yes, and most of it is b.s.

[Aindreas Gallagher] "half scathed really depending on what you believe in terms of the hits they took on the floor and at the presentation."

An event interpreted different ways by people depending on which side of the axe they are grinding. I was at Super Meet, I didn't hear anything other than a resounding round of applause to which I don't know if someone won a prize or some fantastic new feature was developed (I never went into the auditorium, was too busy shooting the shit otherwise).

[Aindreas Gallagher] "but I think there is a lot unsaid on the actual nature of the subs to date, and the degree of mass freebies and discounts adobe have been firing out like they did in vegas at the photoshop thing."

I don't think it's a slamdunk that it foretells anything at all. Discounts get applied in a certain ways to entice people to sign up. Perhaps the "discount" was the price all along, but calling it a discount gets signups. There's no doubt that Adobe would like to get as many subscriptions that they can.

[Aindreas Gallagher] "social opprobrium is a funny thing if you can get it going. In the end this isn't wailing for the sake of it, it's an attempt to alter the deal for the better.
consumer activism wasn't exactly born yesterday."


Not at all, but there's a difference in making your voice heard about an issue and sounding like a complete nutjob. Looks at some of the ridiculous sour grapes reviews on Yelp, something that I feel people are going to start becoming more savvy about due to terrible people using it as a weapon to get their entitled way. I completely understand the issue with people who are concerned about the subscription model, but that doesn't mean you get carte blanche to go off with terms like "slavery", "wage theft", odious use of examples like the antitrust hiring case, and so on, before people start to consider those like you would consider a decidedly terrible person raising a stink on Yelp because they didn't get their every whim catered to.


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Dino Sanacory
Re: Adobe losing a potential big broadcast client with rental only
on May 15, 2014 at 7:10:22 pm

[Gary Huff] "
Yes, but when your "make a big stink" starts to be misinformed and full of ridiculous, it doesn't do anything except paint a perception of you."



Seriously? Legitimate questions are being posed and all we get back is faith based postulations: The price isn't going up because it hasn't so far. Adobe will continue to deliver regular and appreciated updates because the have so far. You will be able to access older versions of the software because you can right now. Adobe is my bff because they are being nice to me right now.

I'll stick with evidence based conclusions and where there is no evidence, I'll remain doubtful or at least cautious.


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Gary Huff
Re: Adobe losing a potential big broadcast client with rental only
on May 16, 2014 at 12:37:00 am

[Dino Sanacory] "Legitimate questions are being posed and all we get back is faith based postulations:"

Yes, on both sides. But looks at some of the absolutely ridiculous comparisons here and you'll see what I mean.

Seriously, Adobe can do what it wants, but some people here act like they owe them something and otherwise it's Hitler. It's ridiculous.


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Jan Janowski
Re: Adobe losing a potential big broadcast client with rental only
on May 18, 2014 at 4:14:47 pm

I've been relatively quiet about this....

But I also decided NOT to go Rental Software and CC, and stayed with CS6.

I did this with great trepidation 2 years ago (In the middle of CS7/CC Beta)..

I am very happy I made that decision....

If Adobe Re-considers the CC and Rental Software approach, I will consider purchasing an update....

Maybe by then Adobe will have a replacement for Encore.... (I still don't know why someone would Kill Off a program with no upgrade path in place!)

I must say, I'd have to wait and watch for a year just to be sure that everything is working again...

Somehow I don't think Adobe wanted me to not spend money with them any more!!

Looking for 1939 Indian Motocycle


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Jim Wiseman
Re: Adobe losing a potential big broadcast client with rental only
on May 19, 2014 at 3:18:35 am

Stick with the Indian. It is proven…

Jim Wiseman
Sony PMW-EX1, Pana AJ-D810 DVCPro, DVX-100, Nikon D7000, Final Cut Pro X 10.1.1, Final Cut Studio 2 and 3, Media 100 Suite 2.1.5, Premiere Pro CS 5.5 and 6.0, AJA ioHD, AJA Kona LHi, Blackmagic Ultrastudio 4K, Avid MC, 2013 Mac Pro Hexacore, 1 TB SSD, 64GB RAM, 2-D500: 2012 Hexacore MacPro 3.33 Ghz 24Gb RAM GTX-285 120GB SSD, Macbook Pro 17" 2011 2.2 Ghz Quadcore i7 16GB RAM 250GB SSD


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Gabe Strong
Re: Adobe losing a potential big broadcast client with rental only
on May 2, 2014 at 4:43:44 pm

Michael,

If there is not support for CC on this forum, all that does is tell you that it
is not a good solution for everyone....just as the millions of CC subscribers
show that it IS a good solution for lots of others. Most people who do not like
CC, are going to be less frequent updates and those who want more control
over their money/expenses. Those who do like it will be those who always want
the newest version and spent for that anyways. It's like cars, I know people
that say even after they pay a car off, they will just trade it in because they want
the newest model, so for them, it makes more sense to just lease a car and make
a payment every month.....once the lease is up, they just lease whatever
the new hot car is. I on the other hand, like the months of not paying....sure
my car may be older, but it gets me from point A to B and best of all, it's paid off.
There is room for both...well not at Adobe anymore, but in the NLE market overall.
I would never call someone who uses CC 'stupid'. They have different markets,
needs, and so on, we are all different, and wouldn't the world be boring if we were
all the same.

Gabe Strong
G-Force Productions
http://www.gforcevideo.com


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David Mathis
Re: Adobe losing a potential big broadcast client with rental only
on May 2, 2014 at 7:13:43 pm
Last Edited By David Mathis on May 2, 2014 at 7:17:39 pm

[Gabe Strong] "If there is not support for CC on this forum, all that does is tell you that it is not a good solution for everyone...."

Bingo! As a one man band CC is not even close to a good match for me. Part of it is control, the other part is another monthly expense that I do not want or need. I could rent the entire package or just the parts I need, short term this fine. Over the long term it will become very expensive. Not sure when the rates will go up, but it will.

For anyone that likes CC and is beneficial to them, great! I have no issue with that at all and never have. What does bother me is one side talking down to the other.

For my workflow all I need is FCP X, Motion and Resolve, they get the job done. They do it within budget and fits my needs. Why rent stuff what I do not need or want it? To me that makes no financial sense whatsoever. I have subscribed to the Red Giant Universe on a monthly basis until the budge allows for a lifetime membership. I know up front how much the monthly fee is, when my next billing date is and knowing I can exit out anytime I choose without having to calling customer support. I do realize that the premium products will not work but the free plug-ins still exist. I also know that I can jump back in and know what the cost is up front. Choice in addition to a clear, transparent and simple plan is of great benefit.

I am still watching this Adobe subscription model and when there is a plan that is beneficial along with meeting my needs, not to mention budget, then I will consider joining. As of now it does not. This is a business decision, nothing personal.

My two cents, whatever it is worth.


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Michael Hendrix
Re: Adobe losing a potential big broadcast client with rental only
on May 5, 2014 at 1:15:04 pm

Gabe, sorry if I implied that you used any of those words, I was just throwing out some of the language that has been used to contrast with your point.

Also, your example of the old car going from point A to B actually is a great example. If your business is people riding in your car from point A to B, then you need to provide the most comfortable, and hopefully latest car with the coolest features. Today, more than ever, it's as much about the experience from getting to point A to B, and that's is why this debate is so hot, different people want and demand a different experience.

Please don't take my words as saying people who are not on board or don't upgrade every cycle as standing still, definitely not my intention. Honestly, your tools do not define your creativity.



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Gary Huff
Re: Adobe losing a potential big broadcast client with rental only
on May 1, 2014 at 1:20:34 pm

[Andy Field] "Big loss for Adobe (ant the station group's editors) as this would be several hundred seats of Premiere Pro ....so they're now looking at Vegas, Avid etc...."

Good for them. Hope they have fun!


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Robert Smith
Re: Adobe losing a potential big broadcast client with rental only
on May 13, 2014 at 11:38:38 am

Someone earlier in this thread used the acronym FUD in response to a mention of price hikes.

Adobe are not our pals ... its a global corporation , the price will go up immediately the heirachy decide the herd is large enough / QE or inflation must be addressed / just to test pain threshold of existing crop of wage slaves.

Shantanu Narayen and his elite will milk until they can milk no longer.

...trust me on this bovines.


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Gary Huff
Re: Adobe losing a potential big broadcast client with rental only
on May 13, 2014 at 12:24:19 pm

[Robert Smith] "
...trust me on this bovines."


When someone says, "trust me", you probably shouldn't.


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Ricardo Marty
Re: Adobe losing a potential big broadcast client with rental only
on May 13, 2014 at 2:02:32 pm

When someone says, "trust me", you probably shouldn't.

Who told you that that what you say is an absolut.
you imply that we can trust you.

ricardo martyp


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Robert Smith
Re: Adobe losing a potential big broadcast client with rental only
on May 13, 2014 at 3:41:42 pm

Trust aside, the facts are 1.8 million users now rent a tool that stops working if the tithe is not paid, to create with CC they must settle the pipers fee perpetually.

The rent paid from ; business profit, parental support, social security or even your pension pot, are a "revenue stream" henceforth manipulated as Abogie sees fit :

http://www.zdnet.com/adobes-q1-strong-1-84-million-creative-cloud-subscript...


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Gary Huff
Re: Adobe losing a potential big broadcast client with rental only
on May 14, 2014 at 3:59:58 pm

[Robert Smith] "Trust aside, the facts are 1.8 million users now rent a tool that stops working if the tithe is not paid, to create with CC they must settle the pipers fee perpetually."

Can't really create if you don't pay your electric bill either. Guess we're tied to that fee perpetually too.


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Steve Connor
Re: Adobe losing a potential big broadcast client with rental only
on May 14, 2014 at 4:09:18 pm

[Gary Huff] "Can't really create if you don't pay your electric bill either. Guess we're tied to that fee perpetually too."

I'm going to give that one a LOL

Steve Connor
Mellowing slowly


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Franz Bieberkopf
Re: Adobe losing a potential big broadcast client with rental only
on May 14, 2014 at 4:41:50 pm

[Gary Huff] "Can't really create if you don't pay your electric bill either. Guess we're tied to that fee perpetually too."

Gary,

You have choices about electric power. Not all of them involve monthly fees.

Franz.


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Gary Huff
Re: Adobe losing a potential big broadcast client with rental only
on May 14, 2014 at 5:32:28 pm

[Franz Bieberkopf] "You have choices about electric power. Not all of them involve monthly fees."

I, personally, do not have a choice about electric power.

Also, can you run your business without an Internet connection? I cannot do that. That requires a monthly fee as well.

In perpetuity.


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Franz Bieberkopf
Re: Adobe losing a potential big broadcast client with rental only
on May 14, 2014 at 5:35:45 pm

[Gary Huff] "Can't really create if you don't pay your electric bill either"

[Gary Huff] "I, personally, do not have a choice about electric power."

Gary,

It helps if you're clear about your pronouns. You'll find different contexts offer different choices.

Franz.


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Gary Huff
Re: Adobe losing a potential big broadcast client with rental only
on May 15, 2014 at 2:06:24 pm

I am clear in my pronoun usage. You may have some weird utility in your area where you can purchase all the electricity you need for the foreseeable future with one large upfront cost, but that is not the norm and I don't know a single person who had much option in that or in choice of provider.


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Franz Bieberkopf
Re: Adobe losing a potential big broadcast client with rental only
on May 15, 2014 at 3:17:23 pm

[Gary Huff] "... I don't know a single person who had much option in that or in choice of provider."

Gary,

I'm not up on the tech, but if you really have not heard of this stuff before here's some things to get you started:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microgeneration
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microgeneration#Government_policy
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autonomous_building
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microgrid

Microgeneration will become more and more mainstream - I don't know where you are, but as an example the last link states that Colorado has a mandate for 3% distributed power generation by 2020 (that includes small off-grid generation as well as larger projects).

The choices are there for those interested.

Franz.


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Gary Huff
Re: Adobe losing a potential big broadcast client with rental only
on May 15, 2014 at 10:13:45 pm

[Franz Bieberkopf] "
The choices are there for those interested."


Are you on microgeneration for your business?


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Franz Bieberkopf
Re: Adobe losing a potential big broadcast client with rental only
on May 15, 2014 at 10:46:28 pm

[Gary Huff] "Are you on microgeneration for your business?"

Gary,

No.

Franz.


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Gary Huff
Re: Adobe losing a potential big broadcast client with rental only
on May 16, 2014 at 12:35:55 am

[Franz Bieberkopf] "Gary,

No.

Franz."


Then you're just splitting hairs over b.s.


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mark cookman
Re: Adobe losing a potential big broadcast client with rental only
on May 14, 2014 at 5:09:28 pm

Great analogy Gazza but Im the bloke with four seats of CS6 - upgraded since COSA and I do not agree with you.

I need Water to live and have a lifetime supply but occasionally the utility offers me Water2 with added fluoride and I pay them again if I see a benefit.

Now they are saying heres Water3, you now have to pay us every month as long as you live.


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Gary Huff
Re: Adobe losing a potential big broadcast client with rental only
on May 15, 2014 at 2:07:02 pm

That doesn't make any sense.


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Gary Huff
Re: Adobe losing a potential big broadcast client with rental only
on May 14, 2014 at 3:59:09 pm

[Ricardo Marty] "Who told you that that what you say is an absolut.

Nobody told me that what I say is an absolute. Where did you get that idea?

[Ricardo Marty] "you imply that we can trust you."

I didn't imply that at all, where did you get such an idea?


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Mads Nybo Jørgensen
Re: Adobe losing a potential big broadcast client with rental only
on May 17, 2014 at 8:57:32 am

Andy,

Your title is slightly misleading, as you cannot loose something that you didn't have in the first place... ;-)

All the Best
Mads

@madsvid, London, UK
Check out my other hangouts:
Twitter: @madsvid
http://mads-thinkingoutloud.blogspot.co.uk


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