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The New Adobe

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Franz Bieberkopf
The New Adobe
on Apr 8, 2014 at 12:40:32 am

Aindreas mentioned this below, but I don't think it should be lost.

We sincerely appreciate all the feedback you have given us. We believe that an honest and open dialogue with the community will ensure that, together, we can move the creative process forward.
May 2013
http://blogs.adobe.com/creativecloud/our-move-to-creative-cloud-an-update/

".... if you don't want to buy our products, just don't buy them. And, you know, SHUT UP."
April 2014, Al Mooney, Product Manager for Adobe Premiere Pro
https://twitter.com/al_mooney/status/453033347837485057


The difference between $40.00 and $60.00 maybe?
http://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=ADBE+Interactive#symbol=ADBE;range=1y


Franz.


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Franz Bieberkopf
Re: The New Adobe
on Apr 8, 2014 at 1:32:29 am
Last Edited By Franz Bieberkopf on Apr 8, 2014 at 1:33:57 am

His last Adobe blog entry (2012):

"CS6 was born out of intently listening to real-world editors and getting feedback, and as we move into planning our future, that feedback is what we need the most, to keep us on track, building an application that you love and want to use. ... Don’t hold back. We can take it."

https://blogs.adobe.com/alsblog/
(Stock was only at 32.00 then.)

Franz.


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David Lawrence
Re: The New Adobe
on Apr 8, 2014 at 1:40:48 am
Last Edited By David Lawrence on Apr 8, 2014 at 1:41:27 am

Wow, is that tweet for real?

Not exactly the kind of talk I'd expect from a company that feels good about their product offerings.

I actually feel sad for Al Mooney. Of all the development leads at Adobe, he and his team have by far delivered the most innovation and value to the Adobe brand. Premiere Pro was perfectly positioned to become a new industry standard when Apple dropped the ball with FCPX. Disruptive opportunities like that are extremely rare in the software industry.

Adobe's surprise change to rental only not only screwed over millions of existing customers, it screwed over Mooney and his team as well. Sounds like it might be getting to him.

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Ricardo Marty
Re: The New Adobe
on Apr 8, 2014 at 1:58:27 am

this new adobe started last year and its got 2 years to go before it dies.

Ricardo Marty


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Chris Pettit
Re: The New Adobe
on Apr 8, 2014 at 2:54:30 am

[Franz Bieberkopf] "We sincerely appreciate all the feedback you have given us. We believe that an honest and open dialogue with the community will ensure that, together, we can move the creative process forward.
May 2013
http://blogs.adobe.com/creativecloud/our-move-to-creative-cloud-an-update/

".... if you don't want to buy our products, just don't buy them. And, you know, SHUT UP."
April 2014, Al Mooney, Product Manager for Adobe Premiere Pro
https://twitter.com/al_mooney/status/453033347837485057"


Whiplash. Pure and simple. Something sure has changed over there. Mike Chambers post from earlier was very careful as well.

Does anyone doubt that the same debate that goes on out here is also going on inside Adobe?


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David Lawrence
Re: The New Adobe
on Apr 8, 2014 at 3:53:19 am

[Chris Pettit] "Does anyone doubt that the same debate that goes on out here is also going on inside Adobe?"

I've heard from sources I trust that this is definitely the case.

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Justin Crowell
Re: The New Adobe
on Apr 8, 2014 at 4:28:37 am
Last Edited By Justin Crowell on Apr 8, 2014 at 4:30:14 am

I look at it another way....Al deleted the tweet because he regretted it (look at his responses to my complaints as well as those of others). Also...obviously the 2013 was a BLOG post...of course it's going to be more careful than a tweet sent in the heat of the NAB moment.

Editor, Producer, DP
JustinCrowell.com


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Chris Pettit
Re: The New Adobe
on Apr 8, 2014 at 4:40:03 am

[Justin Crowell] "I look at it another way....Al deleted the tweet because he regretted it (look at his responses to my complaints as well as those of others). Also...obviously the 2013 was a BLOG post...of course it's going to be more careful than a tweet sent in the heat of the NAB moment."

I agree Justin. The key word being (for me anyway): NAB.

I am too busy to attend this year, but I wonder what would be pressuring someone inside Adobe to react this way right in the middle of NAB?

Could it be that the atmosphere inside the Adobe camp is something less than love, peace and harmony? What on ever could have provoked such disharmony?


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Justin Crowell
Re: The New Adobe
on Apr 8, 2014 at 5:01:23 am

Sort of seems a lot more likely to me that this is an issue of Al being pestered by questions about the business model when he's trying to explain the pretty awesome new features that the Premiere engineers are building. Seems sort of unlikely that Al is reacting to any internal debate.

Editor, Producer, DP
JustinCrowell.com


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David Lawrence
Re: The New Adobe
on Apr 8, 2014 at 5:12:27 am

[Justin Crowell] "Sort of seems a lot more likely to me that this is an issue of Al being pestered by questions about the business model when he's trying to explain the pretty awesome new features that the Premiere engineers are building. "

I'd put down money that this is exactly what's going on. This should be Adobe's triumphant year NAB. But instead of talking about awesome video software, there's no avoiding the white elephant in the room - a business model that many customers find unacceptable. It must really suck. But until Adobe addresses it, it's not going away.

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Chris Pettit
Re: The New Adobe
on Apr 8, 2014 at 5:26:59 am

[Justin Crowell] "an issue of Al being pestered by questions about the business model when he's trying to explain the pretty awesome new features that the Premiere engineers are building"

Happy customers don't "pester" the purveyors of their favorite tools without provocation Justin. New features don't mean anything if the price of admission is lifelong subscription payments with no end and no off ramp.

NAB was long predicted to be a rare opportunity to let Adobe know first hand how some people in the Adobe "ecosystem" felt about forced into subscriptions. If you, or Adobe, thought otherwise, you were mistaken. My guess is this will be a long week for the guys on the front end of Adobe trade show presence.

And unless there is change this year, NAB 2015 will be a repeat.


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Justin Crowell
Re: The New Adobe
on Apr 8, 2014 at 5:28:26 am

I'm not discounting the complaints about CC...I'm saying that this isn't likely some sort of externalizing of an internal debate.

Editor, Producer, DP
JustinCrowell.com


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Chris Pettit
Re: The New Adobe
on Apr 8, 2014 at 5:31:22 am

I'll say this with confidence: There is an internal debate at Adobe. To believe otherwise is silly.


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Justin Crowell
Re: The New Adobe
on Apr 8, 2014 at 5:32:38 am

Oy. I'm just saying that Al is most likely airing his frustration with the public, and not externalizing an internal debate. The tweet was directed at the public, not his colleagues.

Editor, Producer, DP
JustinCrowell.com


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Chris Pettit
Re: The New Adobe
on Apr 8, 2014 at 5:41:05 am

[Justin Crowell] " airing his frustration with the public, and not externalizing an internal debate. The tweet was directed at the public, not his colleagues."

In no way did I imply it was directed at his colleagues, where did you get that? And if it was simply directed at the untamed public, then let it stand. Or are you implying his apology was insincere?

Frankly I have no idea what his actual feelings are regarding mandtory subscriptions, I don't know the man. I only know he lashed out and then regretted it, having done so myself many times.

I just suspect the guy is under a lot of pressure from legitimate customers, and it's only day ONE of NAB. What does that tell you?


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Justin Crowell
Re: The New Adobe
on Apr 8, 2014 at 5:45:57 am

I wonder what would be pressuring someone inside Adobe to react this way right in the middle of NAB?
Could it be that the atmosphere inside the Adobe camp is something less than love, peace and harmony? What on ever could have provoked such disharmony?


Aren't you implying there that he is reacting to internal pressure?

Editor, Producer, DP
JustinCrowell.com


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Chris Pettit
Re: The New Adobe
on Apr 8, 2014 at 6:00:22 am

[Justin Crowell] "
Aren't you implying there that he is reacting to internal pressure?"


I have no idea what particular perspective regarding mandatory subscriptions any particular Adobe team leader has. None.

I only know that if you're convinced that your business model is great and everyone loves it, then you can focus on what matters most: the tools. But I suspect that has become a little difficult now because there is never ending distaste for how Adobe has handled this whole fiasco. And that has unquestionably led to internal debates.

But either way: Internal, External. A bit of a tough time to be working at Adobe, no?


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Ricardo Marty
Re: The New Adobe
on Apr 8, 2014 at 1:11:14 pm

Wonder if adobes booth crowded asit was lst year?

ricaro marty


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Richard Herd
Re: The New Adobe
on Apr 8, 2014 at 3:13:30 pm

[Chris Pettit] "an internal debate at Adobe"

No way! Silicon Valley is a vulture culture of my way or the highway, full of sycophants and yes-men and women. Employees who are not on board with the company vision would be very wise to stay very silent.


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Dave LaRonde
Re: The New Adobe
on Apr 8, 2014 at 3:42:35 pm

[Richard Herd] "Employees who are not on board with the company vision would be very wise to stay very silent."

I don't think this assessment is correct, but for the moment let's just say it is... for idle speculation's sake, you know.

If such a thing were true -- and I say it isn't -- there would be a bunch of talented people who would wouldn't tolerate such working conditions, are ready to jump ship, and the question becomes "in which direction do they jump?"

But I think that question can be discounted as nonsense and mere rumor-mongering.

Dave LaRonde
Promotion Producer
KGAN (CBS) & KFXA (Fox) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Richard Herd
Re: The New Adobe
on Apr 8, 2014 at 5:10:12 pm

Well...I guess we've proven that we disagree :)

My experiences in SF and SV are my experiences there with start ups and the culture, especially during the dot com bubble years. I wrote telemarketing scripts back then. (Anyone remember telemarketing? Anyone? How about Webvan?) Ridiculously high rents in SF and loads and loads of gentrification, I mean "redevelopment." I worked for one VC who was an amazing math guy, and he knew everything. There was no room for disagreement, ever. It's his money. It's his vision. It's his business plan. And that's the synecdoche for the entire culture, actually. It was my job to implement his vision.

I worked for another VC who had a sign on his wall: "Either you're the steamroller, or the pavement." These are dudes with MBAs from Stanford, law degrees from Berkeley. Genuinely passionate men (and some women of course, but mostly men), with a bold vision, and massive pressures. There is no way in hell a gentleman of that caliber would ever listen to a video editor (except as a video editor) and never to run the direction of a listed company.

Adobe's CEO seems like a genuine oligarch. http://www.adobe.com/leaders/shantanu-narayen/bio.html

He's definitely not a video editor.

The glass door site of course has an inherent bias. I'm sure Adobe is a great place to work, no doubts. But senior leadership runs the company. Anyone who disagrees with senior leadership needs to be very silent on that matter. And this tweet being discussed is a case of the project manager agreeing with senior leadership, not disagreeing. Of course, agree v. disagree is far too crude of a distinction. I'm sure senior leadership believes completely in the product. The overwhelming majority of Adobe employees can't even get a meeting with senior leadership, and what would they discuss? Their feelings? The overwhelming majority of Adobe employees do not have access to the data to even begin discussing the macroeconomics of Adobe, the stock price valuation strategies. Crazy stuff, really.

To me this seems obvious. Personally, I cannot wait to watch Mike Judge's new HBO comedy series "Silicon Valley."


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Joseph W. Bourke
Re: The New Adobe
on Apr 8, 2014 at 3:44:46 pm

Richard -

I wonder if these comments from GlassDoor might shed some light on the issue/non-issue (depending on your feelings toward CC):

http://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/Adobe-Company-Reviews-E1090_P2.htm

Of course this is only a smattering of employees and former employees, most likely barely within the margin of error for any meaningful cross-section. But there does seem to be a common thread about quick changes of direction and lack of communication from mid and upper management.

Joe Bourke
Owner/Creative Director
Bourke Media
http://www.bourkemedia.com


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Richard Herd
Re: The New Adobe
on Apr 8, 2014 at 5:25:33 pm

[Joseph W. Bourke] "But there does seem to be a common thread about quick changes of direction and lack of communication from mid and upper management"

Exactly my point, only you have more tact. :)

"Silicon Valley is a vulture culture of my way or the highway, full of sycophants and yes-men and women. Employees who are not on board with the company vision would be very wise to stay very silent."


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Chris Pettit
Re: The New Adobe
on Apr 8, 2014 at 4:29:15 am

For whatever it's worth, got a tweet pulling back from previous statements. I suspect David is right, Customers are not the only victims of Adobe managements rent policy. I really do feel for those on the inside of all this

It goes both ways. What a mess


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David Lawrence
Re: The New Adobe
on Apr 8, 2014 at 4:33:32 am

[Chris Pettit] "For whatever it's worth, got a tweet pulling back from previous statements. I suspect David is right, Customers are not the only victims of Adobe managements rent policy. I really do feel for those on the inside of all this

It goes both ways. What a mess"


Agreed. I just deleted a screen grab of the tweet. I feel bad for those guys.

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Chris Pettit
Re: The New Adobe
on Apr 8, 2014 at 4:41:59 am

[David Lawrence] "I just deleted a screen grab of the tweet. I feel bad for those guys."

Just did the same with my post


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David Mathis
Re: The New Adobe
on Apr 8, 2014 at 1:58:52 pm

I feel sorry for these guys having to put up with people that are not too happy about the current state of affairs. Not sure what their position on the subscription only model is but they did not come up with it. That decision was higher up the chain of command. I sincerely appreciate, not to mention, respect Todd, Kevin, Dennis and others who are contributing their time here. You guys have been great and I know that sometimes I have been cranky. For that I wish to apologize. My tune about this subscription model has changed and my attitude is now softer towards it. I am grateful that CS6 is still being offered as an alternative. I have come to realize that Adobe is not changing course anytime soon and that is a business decision. I do wish Todd, Kevin, Dennis and others the best of luck. Really hate to see you guys having to deal with an angry crowd. I pray each day to be a better and more kind person. Thank you for taking your time to discuss with us what you can. My two cents, whatever it is worth.


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Gustavo Bermudas
Re: The New Adobe
on Apr 8, 2014 at 4:22:37 pm

Also look at what Blackmagic is doing, they're basically doing FCP 8, and it's free, that's gotta increase his stress levels exponentially!


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Joseph W. Bourke
Re: The New Adobe
on Apr 8, 2014 at 4:31:12 pm

I believe that the "free" software costs around a thousand dollars, unless you purchase some expensive hardware - see post below:

http://forums.creativecow.net/readpost/378/7316

Joe Bourke
Owner/Creative Director
Bourke Media
http://www.bourkemedia.com


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Franz Bieberkopf
Re: The New Adobe
on Apr 8, 2014 at 4:52:23 pm

[Joseph W. Bourke] " I believe that the "free" software costs around a thousand dollars ..."

Joseph,

No, really, it's free.

http://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/davinciresolve/compare
(all the way to the bottom)

Franz.


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Ricardo Marty
Re: The New Adobe
on Apr 8, 2014 at 4:59:19 pm
Last Edited By Ricardo Marty on Apr 8, 2014 at 5:00:47 pm

i remember combustion adding some video editing tools. just imagine if they would have continued and developed its editing capacity.

ricardo marty


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Joseph W. Bourke
Re: The New Adobe
on Apr 8, 2014 at 5:32:40 pm

I was a beta tester on Combustion 1 and 2, and was a dedicated user until the facility that I worked at standardized on Adobe products - this was actually a good move in the long run, since all of our design work was done in Illustrator and Photoshop, so it was no great stretch jumping to AE. At the time, though, Combustion had a far superior tracking engine, and its keyer blew AE's away. If you added to that the fact that you could RAM preview, and make changes to all of the parameters while it played (something I've been requesting from Adobe for years), it was quite an amazing tool. Since most of what I was doing was short form work (commercials, opens, promos, etc.), I used Combustion as an NLE, although I don't remember it having specific NLE tools. But as I say, we moved to AE, so I have no experience with Combustion 3 or 2008, the last versions, which I never used.

The funny thing is, it still lives on, as Autodesk Toxic, a node based compositor. I installed it with 3DS Max 2011 - it came free with it, but I have never used it, except to putter around a bit with it, and have no feelings on it good or bad. I'm so immersed in AE that I don't have time to kick the tires:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autodesk_Toxik

And here's the help file:

http://download.autodesk.com/us/toxik/Toxik2010OnlineHelp/index.html?url=WS...

I just did a search on Toxic, and it appears as though development has ceased, and Autodesk is going to give Toxic away in the near future:

http://www.cgchannel.com/2014/03/autodesk-to-release-toxik-and-matchmover-f...

Joe Bourke
Owner/Creative Director
Bourke Media
http://www.bourkemedia.com


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James Daugherty
Re: The New Adobe
on Apr 9, 2014 at 8:08:17 pm

https://scontent-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/t1.0-9/10253916_86658389003378...


Here is a new link to the twitter post.

James Daugherty
President SDMVPUG.com
San Diego Mac Video Production User Group


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James Daugherty
Re: The New Adobe
on Apr 9, 2014 at 8:33:31 pm

Stick and stones will break your bones but bad tweets can get you fired.

I hope Adobe ignores this like everything else. It is not AL's fault he is just the messenger.

James Daugherty
President SDMVPUG.com
San Diego Mac Video Production User Group


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Gustavo Bermudas
Re: The New Adobe
on Apr 10, 2014 at 12:42:57 am
Last Edited By Gustavo Bermudas on Apr 10, 2014 at 12:43:24 am

Look, he's making millions doing what he loves. I don't feel sorry for him.


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