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Ricardo Marty
blackmagic design chipping cc
on Apr 7, 2014 at 6:19:02 pm

those cc ppro only users who grade in resolve have a new option and its free.

http://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/davinciresolve/compare

the war is starting

ricardo marty

hooray the cc wall will crumble sooner or later


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Joseph W. Bourke
Re: blackmagic design chipping cc
on Apr 7, 2014 at 7:26:59 pm

My thought on this this would be - what??? My perception - and it may vary from yours - is that the only thing that's going to chip away at the CC is an alternative to After Effects, not Premiere Pro. At my last count, there were many alternative NLE software packages, some good, some great, some unknown, some free, some almost free:

Premiere Pro, FCPX, AVID, Edius, iMovie, Autodesk Flame and Smoke, Nero Vision, Pinnacle Studio, Sony Vegas Pro, Corel Video Studio, Clesh, Lightworks, and probably several more which I've missed.

It would seem to me that there isn't going to be any crack in the CC wall until, and if, someone develops compositing software which can truly compete with AE. Combustion is gone (sniff...), HitFilm isn't even remotely there, Motion is good (if you're on the Mac platform, which I'm not), and everything else is a big step up in dollars.

Joe Bourke
Owner/Creative Director
Bourke Media
http://www.bourkemedia.com


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: blackmagic design chipping cc
on Apr 7, 2014 at 9:18:42 pm

[Joseph W. Bourke] "the only thing that's going to chip away at the CC is an alternative to After Effects, not Premiere Pro. "

yep. the only thing that would give you pause is the intense focus adobe are giving ppro as a lynchpin to their pro VA base they are building as part of a retreat from the web post flash and dreamweaver.

[Joseph W. Bourke] "My thought on this this would be - what???"

but yes - basically that. the world is not short of non-linear editors right now? It's an AE and PS issue surely in our terms. It's hard to see who exactly is going to take a real crack at either of those. There is no hint of an established player really willing to take either of them on. the only one in my head who could have was macromedia, and oh wait something happened there. And even in macromedias pomp they were never able to touch PS. I still remember their Xres solutions - none of that went anywhere.

its super hard to see someone getting anything like that going from scratch. You'd need VC funding nearly to assemble the resources to take on AE, given you'd have to match tons of it, not to mention all the maffit cycore finaleffects keylight mocha that adobe have rolled into it over the years.

[Joseph W. Bourke] "Combustion is gone (sniff...), "

Hey - yes indeed - i even remember when that was still effect and paint. We actually bought in the molinaire software for that before discreet snapped it up.

you get the feeling there was a much livelier post software arena there a while back?
we had combustion, a speed razor, intergraph PCs, G3s with iceboards running AE, and a discreet flint running on an indigo2.

it feels as though there isn't much fertile ground for scrappy new post production software startups knocking around.
Unless you are plugging into established solutions ala red giant, coding new commercial products from scratch definitely feels like an unsexy area.
bar nuke, I can't think of a single significant disruptive new entrant in the last half decade. (I'm probably going to turn out to be wrong there)

that might explain everyone from autodesk, avid and adobe putting their feet up and hitting the subscription steady state button?

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Ricardo Marty
Re: blackmagic design chipping cc
on Apr 7, 2014 at 10:01:04 pm

I think that maybe boris and blender could be posible ae disprupters.
So smoke has become subscrptionion only?

Ricardo marty


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Franz Bieberkopf
Re: blackmagic design chipping cc
on Apr 8, 2014 at 12:25:11 am

[Al Mooney] "And, you know, SHUT UP."

Wow.

Franz.


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Dave LaRonde
Re: blackmagic design chipping cc
on Apr 7, 2014 at 9:27:35 pm

Yup, if some software developer could come up with a worthy competitor to After Effects, it would be like building the proverbial better mousetrap.

It would also make life much more interesting for many people.

Dave LaRonde
Promotion Producer
KGAN (CBS) & KFXA (Fox) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Steve Connor
Re: blackmagic design chipping cc
on Apr 7, 2014 at 9:36:49 pm

[Dave LaRonde] "Yup, if some software developer could come up with a worthy competitor to After Effects, it would be like building the proverbial better mousetrap."

I don't know much about compositing software, is there anything at the high or very high end that can match the features of AE?

Steve Connor

Class Bully


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Dave LaRonde
Re: blackmagic design chipping cc
on Apr 7, 2014 at 9:48:05 pm

Autodesk Smoke would do the trick. It's about $3200 for a 1-year license.

Dave LaRonde
Promotion Producer
KGAN (CBS) & KFXA (Fox) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Gustavo Bermudas
Re: blackmagic design chipping cc
on Apr 8, 2014 at 4:54:51 am

I think MambaFX has a strong chance, specially since it's coming to Mac in a month or so and cost about $300, and has the same VFX tools as Mystica.


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Shawn Miller
Re: blackmagic design chipping cc
on Apr 7, 2014 at 10:55:23 pm

[Steve Connor] "[Dave LaRonde] "Yup, if some software developer could come up with a worthy competitor to After Effects, it would be like building the proverbial better mousetrap."

I don't know much about compositing software, is there anything at the high or very high end that can match the features of AE?

Steve Connor"


There are better compositing applications to be sure. Where AE shines is in it's ability composite fairly well, and animate VERY well. There's also the widely popular plugin architecture and expressions/scripting support. Currently, there just isn't anything like AE on the high end or the low end... plus, it ships with Mocha AE and C4D lite. Resolve 11 looks good, but it's probably much more competition for Smoke than AE... two great options for finishing, but neither really made to compete with AE.

Shawn

Shawn



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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: blackmagic design chipping cc
on Apr 7, 2014 at 11:13:55 pm

[Shawn Miller] "Currently, there just isn't anything like AE on the high end or the low end..."

isn't that the thing? After Effects might as well be a type 40 Tardis. It's almost impossible to conceive of anything replicating the crazy circumstances in its build history.

or anyone even beginning to think of having a go. how do you take a run at AE? where do you even start?

tiny sigh. the free market is a bloody chimera I tell you. the thing never appears when required.

the only thing that could upend AE is a total alteration of the marketplace such that it doesn't answer key questions anymore.
that is really really really hard to imagine.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Dave LaRonde
Re: blackmagic design chipping cc
on Apr 7, 2014 at 11:40:18 pm
Last Edited By Dave LaRonde on Apr 7, 2014 at 11:55:20 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "I particularly loved al mooney's bullying general tweet there recently:

https://twitter.com/al_mooney/status/453033347837485057

to quote him:
This might sound controversial, but if you don't want to buy our products, just don't buy them. And, you know, SHUT UP."


Now, THAT'S worth a laugh!
How 'bout this, Al? How 'bout if you FIX THE THING THAT HAS PEOPLE BITCHING AT YOU, PAL?

Now, it's off to watch an American College men's basketball game, the final one of the season. Go get 'em, Huskies!

Dave LaRonde
Promotion Producer
KGAN (CBS) & KFXA (Fox) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Shawn Miller
Re: blackmagic design chipping cc
on Apr 7, 2014 at 11:51:44 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "[Shawn Miller] "Currently, there just isn't anything like AE on the high end or the low end..."

isn't that the thing? After Effects might as well be a type 40 Tardis. It's almost impossible to conceive of anything replicating the crazy circumstances in its build history.

or anyone even beginning to think of having a go. how do you take a run at AE? where do you even start?

tiny sigh. the free market is a bloody chimera I tell you. the thing never appears when required.

the only thing that could upend AE is a total alteration of the marketplace such that it doesn't answer key questions anymore.
that is really really really hard to imagine."



I know, seems bleak in some ways, huh? :-)

This is why I was so bummed at the EOL of Combustion. I never used it, but man was it a strong competitor to AE. I always thought I would end up learning both, but that hope died... then I wanted Shake to be my tool of choice for compositing, but you know how that ended. Don't get me wrong, there are alternatives to AE if you need them. You just have to use a number of applications to get there. Right now I'm on Adobe's CC suite and it works well, but my eyes are always on the horizon. :-)

Shawn



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Walter Soyka
Re: blackmagic design chipping cc
on Apr 7, 2014 at 11:41:36 pm

[Steve Connor] "I don't know much about compositing software, is there anything at the high or very high end that can match the features of AE?"

Ae is a deep tool with very broad application. I don't think there's any one product that matches the entire feature set of Ae. Depending on what subset of Ae's capabilities you're interested in, though, there are alternatives.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Walter Soyka
Re: blackmagic design chipping cc
on Apr 7, 2014 at 11:49:17 pm

[Ricardo Marty] "those cc ppro only users who grade in resolve have a new option and its free... hooray the cc wall will crumble sooner or later"

I'm not sure that salvation will come from Blackmagic Design. In rooting for a free product whose development is subsidized by the sale of something else, you are rooting for a product with absolutely zero accountability to its users (note I didn't say customers) in the market. I guess if they're ever dissatisfied, they can get their money back.

Not all disruption is positive, and I'm not sure that free closed-source software is a good thing for this industry in the long term. Resolve's price tag, or lack thereof, could be a pretty strong disincentive for other companies to invest the resources necessary to develop or maintain a competitive product.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Shawn Miller
Re: blackmagic design chipping cc
on Apr 8, 2014 at 12:09:09 am

[Walter Soyka] "[Ricardo Marty] "those cc ppro only users who grade in resolve have a new option and its free... hooray the cc wall will crumble sooner or later"

I'm not sure that salvation will come from Blackmagic Design. In rooting for a free product whose development is subsidized by the sale of something else, you are rooting for a product with absolutely zero accountability to its users (note I didn't say customers) in the market. I guess if they're ever dissatisfied, they can get their money back.

Not all disruption is positive, and I'm not sure that free closed-source software is a good thing for this industry in the long term. Resolve's price tag, or lack thereof, could be a pretty strong disincentive for other companies to invest the resources necessary to develop or maintain a competitive product."


All good points, Walter. I'll add that virtually free, high-end software might not just jeopardize "pure" software companies. I think it may also act as a disincentive for independent developers as well. I wonder if Russ Andersson would have developed Syntheyes, if a company like AJA had bought Boujou and started giving it away for free with Kona cards, as an example. I'm a big fan of good indie developers, and I would hate to see an industry where they just couldn't compete with free giveaways from bigger hardware companies.

Shawn



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Walter Soyka
Re: blackmagic design chipping cc
on Apr 8, 2014 at 12:18:07 am

[Shawn Miller] "I wonder if Russ Andersson would have developed Syntheyes, if a company like AJA had bought Boujou and started giving it away for free with Kona cards, as an example. I'm a big fan of good indie developers, and I would hate to see an industry where they just couldn't compete with free giveaways from bigger hardware companies. "

I agree. I actually had smaller developers in mind when writing this, and Syntheyes is the perfect example. There's a lot of innovation that comes from startups, whether they bring it to market themselves or get bought up by a larger publisher.

Underpriced and free products devalue the work of the developers who build the tools we need to do our jobs. If the industry that supplies us becomes toxic, how healthy will our industry really be long term?

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Shawn Miller
Re: blackmagic design chipping cc
on Apr 8, 2014 at 3:23:32 am

[Walter Soyka] "Underpriced and free products devalue the work of the developers who build the tools we need to do our jobs. If the industry that supplies us becomes toxic, how healthy will our industry really be long term?"

Good question. Part of me fears that this leads to virtual if not actual monopoly by hardware companies... I hope I'm just being irrational. :-)

Shawn



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Daniel McClintock
Re: blackmagic design chipping cc
on Apr 8, 2014 at 12:24:52 am

Resolve isn't actually "free." The standalone software is $995. To get the "free" version you have to buy one of their cameras. Between the camera and all of the stuff you have to purchase such as SSD drives, you'll be spending between $3,000 and $8,000. Yikes!

————

"Sometimes Life Needs a Cmd-Z!"


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Walter Soyka
Re: blackmagic design chipping cc
on Apr 8, 2014 at 12:47:09 am

[Daniel McClintock] "Resolve isn't actually "free." The standalone software is $995. To get the "free" version you have to buy one of their cameras. Between the camera and all of the stuff you have to purchase such as SSD drives, you'll be spending between $3,000 and $8,000. Yikes!"

Resolve Lite is free. So what's it missing?

http://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/davinciresolve/compare

Largely noise reduction and stereoscopy features.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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