FORUMS: list search recent posts

The Future Is DVD?

COW Forums : Adobe Creative Cloud Debate

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
Rob Brandreth-Gibbs
The Future Is DVD?
on Feb 11, 2014 at 10:49:40 pm

Today Videomaker emailed me an ad for their "Advanced Video Editing" course. "Videomaker has been helping people for more than 20 years learn how to use new technologies in video production..." A DVD graphic is featured prominently while noting that in addition to DVD, the course is also available as a download.

I wonder if Videomaker is aware that Adobe considers DVD to be so useless as to drop their functioning DVD creation program from CC.

While I am a fan of CC, let me add that my remarks are sarcastic as I still receive RFPs stating the additional requirement for a DVD deliverable. Something to do with everyone having a machine and knowing how to play a DVD.

As I write this, the standards for a 4K disc are being written. The disc is dead; long live the disc.

RBG

Rob Brandreth-Gibbs
Bravo Zulu Productions
Vancouver, Canada


Return to posts index

Joseph W. Bourke
Re: The Future Is DVD?
on Feb 11, 2014 at 10:55:06 pm

Yup...just like film and vinyl.

Joe Bourke
Owner/Creative Director
Bourke Media
http://www.bourkemedia.com


Return to posts index

Gary Huff
Re: The Future Is DVD?
on Feb 12, 2014 at 3:04:32 am

[Joseph W. Bourke] " Yup...just like film and vinyl."

Yep, all those film and vinyl millionaires out there. You think someone would jump on that bandwagon.


Return to posts index


Joseph W. Bourke
Re: The Future Is DVD?
on Feb 12, 2014 at 2:16:29 pm

Gary -

Somebody did jump on that bandwagon. While CD sales declined 14.5% last year, vinyl sales grew 32% from 4.5 million units sold in 2012 to 6 million sold in 2013. I guess it wasn't you or me that jumped on that bandwagon, eh?

Joe Bourke
Owner/Creative Director
Bourke Media
http://www.bourkemedia.com


Return to posts index

Andrew Kimery
Re: The Future Is DVD?
on Feb 12, 2014 at 5:20:32 pm

I guess it's all how you look at it, Joe. In terms of album sales, vinyl went from 1.4% of total sales in the US to 2% (digital download albums have 40% and CDs have 57%). While vinyl did good for vinyl it's more like a bandcart than a bandwagon. ;)


Return to posts index

Shane Ross
Re: The Future Is DVD?
on Feb 12, 2014 at 6:38:41 pm

I know I've been buying a lot of vinyl lately. My wife is on a kick after I got her a record player and stereo cabinet.

And I still author DVDs for clients. ALL...THE...TIME. Why Apple and Adobe discontinued their DVD products is puzzling. And Avid only has solutions for PC versions.

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


Return to posts index


Ricardo Marty
Re: The Future Is DVD?
on Feb 12, 2014 at 7:36:01 pm

Because the cloud is the future A Place where tangibles dont exist.

Ricardo Marty


Return to posts index

Dave LaRonde
Re: The Future Is DVD?
on Feb 14, 2014 at 6:24:15 pm

[Ricardo Marty] "...the cloud is the future A Place where tangibles dont exist."

Boy, I hope you're wrong! It will be tough to convince me that the safest way I can keep my personal files & data is on one storage device and a backup or two, plus the same thing in a different location.

My across-the-street neighbor works in data security for a big military contractor in town. One evening over beers, we got talking about the cloud. I asked this software engineer how secure your data is when it's stored on the cloud. He replied in two words: "It isn't".

Brief answer. Big implications.

Dave LaRonde
Promotion Producer
KGAN (CBS) & KFXA (Fox) Cedar Rapids, IA


Return to posts index

Andrew Kimery
Re: The Future Is DVD?
on Feb 14, 2014 at 7:03:04 pm

[Dave LaRonde] "Brief answer. Big implications."

Yet all of our most sensitive information is stored in the cloud by a multitude of entities. Or given to an HR, play roll or bank clerk making $10/hr and trusted to not ruin peoples' lives by selling that info for a ton of money. We won't give a CC number to a total stranger on the street but we'll give the card itself to total strangers that work at bars and restaurants. And don't even get me started on all the private information contained in emails and text messages.

Even the 'physical world' isn't exempt. People will steal mail (bills, credit card statements, etc.,) to get personal info and in LA recently a mailman was arrested for stealing mail and selling the personal info to identify thieves. Not to mention the recent Target hack as the latest example of how venerable of PoS terminals are.

Honestly Dave, for how often you post about security concerns I'm very surprised how freely you broadcast your personal information on the COW, LinkedIn and Facebook.


Return to posts index

Ricardo Marty
Re: The Future Is DVD?
on Feb 15, 2014 at 1:23:25 am

The security is not for the user but for the producers o
f the content ie movies,music,content in general. Its a way to fight piracy.

Ricardo Marty


Return to posts index

Kevin Monahan
Re: The Future Is DVD?
on Feb 12, 2014 at 8:22:17 pm

[Shane Ross] "Why Apple and Adobe discontinued their DVD products is puzzling."

Hi Shane,
While we've done no more development for Encore, it is still supported, and available for sale. The only thing Encore doesn't have is dynamic link capability between Premiere Pro CC and Encore CS6. However, this function won't prevent you from making a DVD and many DVD creators don't even use dynamic link.

Thanks,
Kevin

Kevin Monahan
Online/Social Customer Success Lead DVA
Adobe After Effects
Adobe Premiere Pro
Adobe Systems, Inc.
Follow Me on Twitter!


Return to posts index

Rob Brandreth-Gibbs
Re: The Future Is DVD?
on Feb 13, 2014 at 9:25:57 pm

Thanks for that, Kevin

I am also aware that Encore is available. But do I understand correctly that you must also have a non-CC Premiere loaded for it to work or is Encore stand-alone?

If non-stand-alone I have a problem just from the complexity point of view. (Not to mention the insanity of such a requirement.)(And limited SSD room.) And the inelegance of it all. Exactly the opposite philosophy and reason for buying into CC in the first place. Losing that beautiful moment when you could intuitively create a DVD right from Premiere. It just didn't get any easier. I say the slow demise of DVD is actually the very basis for keeping Encore in dynamic link.

Now we have learning curve and hassle. Perhaps it wouldn't be so bad if there was a lovely executive step-by-step summary to follow somewhere for non-power or infrequent users. But my time is so precious, there is visceral rebellion when I'm forced to wonder, "what is it I'm supposed to do here?"

I'm on my soap box now but sometimes I really wonder whether software manufacturers actually ever watch a population of real live users attempting to grapple with their programs. Sure their software makes total sense to the engineers. And to those who have the time to run through courses, and read manuals, and repeatedly use features. Especially frustrating when 90% of what we do may be a simple operation. How hard can it be for a little box to pop up in context asking, "What is it that you want to do?" Or better, making expected controls and button-pushing sequences obvious, and guiding. This is where sincere time/motion studies of users would be helpful.

I know power-users take great pride in the fact that they may know how to use every arcane and hidden feature, but that is becoming more and more the caveman past as we move into the future and the advent of "expert systems." That day can't come soon enough for those of us who want to create without all the present intricacy, and learning curves, and experimentation, and time. (An interesting case in point is our biggest local TV station now about to require on-air TV news reporters to shoot and edit (!!) Not to mention non-professionals who seem to already have the jump with respect to 4K shooting and distribution. GH4, YouTube. What is going on here?)

It's obvious that to keep selling, the alternate future of software to look forward to must be even more complexity, the likes we mortals can't even imagine, or to be unkind: bloatware. I can see the day when we will not be able to write a simple letter in M$ Word for all the added code required to sell a new version. Subscription aside. /soapbox

RBG

Rob Brandreth-Gibbs
Bravo Zulu Productions
Vancouver, Canada


Return to posts index

Kevin Monahan
Re: The Future Is DVD?
on Feb 14, 2014 at 12:14:40 am

Hi Rob,
[Rob Brandreth-Gibbs] "But do I understand correctly that you must also have a non-CC Premiere loaded for it to work or is Encore stand-alone? "

Yes, you must install Premiere Pro CS6 to get access to Encore CS6. Encore is part of the "Premiere Pro Family." You can download Premiere Pro CS6 from the Creative Cloud or install a perpetually licensed version. Either way works.

[Rob Brandreth-Gibbs] "I say the slow demise of DVD is actually the very basis for keeping Encore in dynamic link."

Unfortunately, that ship has already sailed. There won't be any more development on this application.

[Rob Brandreth-Gibbs] "Perhaps it wouldn't be so bad if there was a lovely executive step-by-step summary to follow somewhere for non-power or infrequent users. "

Does this doc work for you? http://helpx.adobe.com/encore/kb/encore-cs6-installed-cc.html

[Rob Brandreth-Gibbs] "I'm on my soap box now but sometimes I really wonder whether software manufacturers actually ever watch a population of real live users attempting to grapple with their programs."

We have both internal testing with "real editors" and many more on our prerelease program. I know these folks, many of them are my colleagues from the time when I was a freelance editor. As an editor with over 20 years experience out there "in the wild," I also try to make as many suggestions on behalf of the users that I can.

[Rob Brandreth-Gibbs] "How hard can it be for a little box to pop up in context asking, "What is it that you want to do?""

You're talking about contextual help and that is something that might be in the future. I like the idea. Some Adobe apps already do that to a certain extent.

[Rob Brandreth-Gibbs] "Or better, making expected controls and button-pushing sequences obvious, and guiding. This is where sincere time/motion studies of users would be helpful. "

We have an experience design team that does that sort of thing.

[Rob Brandreth-Gibbs] "It's obvious that to keep selling, the alternate future of software to look forward to must be even more complexity, the likes we mortals can't even imagine, or to be unkind: bloatware"

I hope not. Simplicity is the key to great design. I'm quite sure Adobe has this in mind for the future.

Thanks for your post!

Kevin

Kevin Monahan
Online/Social Customer Success Lead DVA
Adobe After Effects
Adobe Premiere Pro
Adobe Systems, Inc.
Follow Me on Twitter!


Return to posts index

Jeff Meyer
Re: The Future Is DVD?
on Feb 17, 2014 at 12:05:57 am

[Rob Brandreth-Gibbs] "How hard can it be for a little box to pop up in context asking, "What is it that you want to do?""

[Kevin Monahan] "You're talking about contextual help and that is something that might be in the future. I like the idea. Some Adobe apps already do that to a certain extent."

This sounds a lot like everyone's favourite paper clip.


Return to posts index

Andrew Kimery
Re: The Future Is DVD?
on Feb 14, 2014 at 5:21:22 am

[Rob Brandreth-Gibbs] "Especially frustrating when 90% of what we do may be a simple operation. How hard can it be for a little box to pop up in context asking, "What is it that you want to do?" Or better, making expected controls and button-pushing sequences obvious, and guiding. "

As I read this I started getting horrible flashbacks of MS Office and Clippy!


[Rob Brandreth-Gibbs] " And to those who have the time to run through courses, and read manuals, and repeatedly use features. "

To quote someone smarter than me, "Basically, the only "intuitive" interface is the nipple. After that, it's all learned."

If someone can't be bothered to make a reasonable effort to educate themselves about the tools they use to make a living then that's on them. If you don't use specific software (or a specific workflow) frequently enough to remember it by heart then write it down. Evernote is a great, free cross platform (Mac, iOS, Windows & Android) note taking app that syncs via the cloud. I love it and keep all my workflow related notes into it.

I'm not a fan of poor design resulting in things being obtuse, but the more options you give users the more in depth/arcane/complicated/feature filled (take your pick) the program will be come. That's just the nature of the beast.

If you don't need that many options maybe you should be looking at different tools? When I was thinking about redoing my website I went looking for the software equivalent of "Web sites for Dummies". I had used iWeb in the past (before Apple killed it) and that was perfectly fine for my needs.


Return to posts index

Rob Brandreth-Gibbs
Re: The Future Is DVD?
on Feb 14, 2014 at 6:43:54 pm

"As I read this I started getting horrible flashbacks of MS Office and Clippy!"

Yet you don't get flashbacks of Apple Newton when you read Ipad? Why do you think that is?

You sound more like the ancient church leaders who insisted everyone should make the effort to learn Latin with respect to the bible else don't bother. And for the exact same reasons. It becomes part of the problem, especially when it is an engineer mind-set.

Complexity does not need to be the nature of the beast. The evolution of engineering has already proven that. Mr. Monahan above knows what I am talking about. And Apple is successful not because it attaches an Evernote to everything it does.

RBG

Rob Brandreth-Gibbs
Bravo Zulu Productions
Vancouver, Canada


Return to posts index

Andrew Kimery
Re: The Future Is DVD?
on Feb 14, 2014 at 8:15:15 pm

[Rob Brandreth-Gibbs] "You sound more like the ancient church leaders who insisted everyone should make the effort to learn Latin with respect to the bible else don't bother"

Latin was far out of the reach of the common man in an era where just being literate in your native tongue was unique. I'm talking about thumbing through the manual that came with your product, seeking out readily available information (written or A/V) on the Internet and/or just asking someone for help. Of course I guess you could argue that basic literacy (which is required to use these programs in the first place) is too elitist and everything should be communicated via Ikea-style pictograms.

There's a reason why products like iMovie and Windows Movie Maker exist and there's a reason why complex products like FCPX and PPro exist. Like I said in my previous post, there's no reason for the interface to be obtuse but the more features you add, the more options you give the user, the more variables that are made available for manipulation the more complex the software becomes which makes it harder to balance usability and versatility.

"Simple things should be simple, complex things should be possible." - Alan Kay

DVD Studio Pro's approach to this was to have "basic", "extended" and "advanced" control layouts which was an interesting attempt to tackle this problem. I've often wondered why more programs didn't go this route.

[Rob Brandreth-Gibbs] "And Apple is successful not because it attaches an Evernote to everything it does."
Yet Apple, one of the most UI centric companies out there, still thoroughly documents all of its products because they know that people still have to learn how to use them (Apple even offers training classes!). The most ardent FCPX fans over at the "FCP or Not" forum say you have to really dig into the program for a month or two before you have your 'ah-ha!" moment and it all really starts coming together.


Return to posts index

Rob Brandreth-Gibbs
Re: The Future Is DVD?
on Feb 14, 2014 at 10:04:00 pm

No doubt, there will always be folks who have the time and inclination for instruction manuals. My iPhone and iPad does everything I need when I want it without cracking a page. That's the evolution of technology. The market will sort out who is right.

RBG

Rob Brandreth-Gibbs
Bravo Zulu Productions
Vancouver, Canada


Return to posts index

Gary Huff
Re: The Future Is DVD?
on Feb 15, 2014 at 3:10:42 am
Last Edited By Gary Huff on Feb 15, 2014 at 3:11:22 am

[Rob Brandreth-Gibbs] " My iPhone and iPad does everything I need when I want it without cracking a page."

Then you must not be doing too much with it. I have definitely had to look up how to do things on mine, both usability and troubleshooting.

And I bet you have too...probably just not remembering it off the top of your head.


Return to posts index

Rob Brandreth-Gibbs
Re: The Future Is DVD?
on Feb 15, 2014 at 6:32:05 pm

In fact you are right, while it seems I do everything I need with it, I'm sure it isn't anywhere near its capability. But then, my thesis here is that we are still in the software dark ages - and that goes for Apple. Though I think they may be leaders in a way all the other developers are not able to ignore.

RBG

Rob Brandreth-Gibbs
Bravo Zulu Productions
Vancouver, Canada


Return to posts index

Rob Brandreth-Gibbs
Re: The Future Is DVD?
on Feb 14, 2014 at 10:28:34 pm

A perfect example of what I am taking about right here on the Creative Cow Illustrator board:

http://forums.creativecow.net/thread/245/863284

There I'm desperate to invoke what should be a quick and simple operation: turning a b&w graphic into a vector diagram for a CAD program. The CAD techs couldn't help. The Illustrator tech remotely went into my machine to see if there was a problem with no joy. The Cow host finally got me going but only after a whole lotta experimentation on my part.

I'm obligated to purchase the entire CC offering of two dozen programs, services and extras as are a whole range of professionals, hobbyists, and students alike. But to make things easier, you want me to buy what now in addition?

RBG

Rob Brandreth-Gibbs
Bravo Zulu Productions
Vancouver, Canada


Return to posts index

Andrew Kimery
Re: The Future Is DVD?
on Feb 15, 2014 at 12:01:14 am

[Rob Brandreth-Gibbs] "My iPhone and iPad does everything I need when I want it without cracking a page. That's the evolution of technology. The market will sort out who is right."

Which I'd wager are significantly less complex processes than what you are doing in Illustrator. Though I'm not sure how pressing the volume button to take a picture, pressing and holding the home button to invoke Siri or holding the home button and pressing the power button to take a screen shot are intuitive. ;)

Not to go totally off the trails but, IMO, the market sorts out who's the best at making money, not necessarily who makes the best products. My first smart phone was a Palm Pre running WebOS but after Palm went belly-up (and WebOS was bought then killed by HP) I bought an iPhone 4s. It was my first iOS device and I was surprised at how clunky and dated it felt. Even though iOS 7 has added many WebOS-like features, if Palm still existed I doubt I ever would've bought an iPhone.

[Rob Brandreth-Gibbs] "There I'm desperate to invoke what should be a quick and simple operation: turning a b&w graphic into a vector diagram for a CAD program. The CAD techs couldn't help. The Illustrator tech remotely went into my machine to see if there was a problem with no joy. The Cow host finally got me going but only after a whole lotta experimentation on my part."

I can certainly feel you pain when it comes to creating drawn out processes for something that should be rather straight forward. For me it was creating multicam groups in Avid and FCP Legacy. Horrible, horrible multistep process fraught with pitfalls that just made me hate life. In PPro CC the same process can be done in three mouse clicks and literally takes minutes instead of hours. I think the process is similarly quick in FCPX but I can't say first hand.

Adobe took a lot of the pain out of something that's common in the gigs I get and hopefully they'll be able to do the same for you in a future update.


Return to posts index

Bill Davis
Re: The Future Is DVD?
on Feb 12, 2014 at 9:20:37 pm

Shane,

While DVD Studio Pro is certainly discontinued, I can confirm it continues to work just fine under Mavericks. As does iDVD from what I can tell.

Last week I had a legacy project I do every other year for the US Forest Service - and had to burn the first 10 DVDs I've been asked to deliver in more than a year.

My Laptop opened DVD Studio Pro just fine. And I was able to replace all the old content with the new stuff - and burn DVDs directly off my laptop without OS or software issues.

The only REAL problem I had, actually, was getting the dang DVD LABLES printed! I had to make half a dozen calls to find somebody in my circle of acquaintances who still could print on a freeking blank DVD. The simple Epson printers and even my dedicated Dymo Disk Printer I used back in the day - all are WAY past being "driver obsolete" and I didn't want to buy a new $100 printer just to do 10 DVDs - no matter how much I love the client and am proud of my minuscule role in helping keep America's wild land forest firefighters well trained and as safe as possible.

I had planned to let the client know that I could just remove the password stage from the cloud versions we used for approvals, but when a government contract specifies DVD delivery - you deliver DVDs. end of story.

Apple is definitely not the only enterprise out there who thinks DVD is a rapidly dying technology - even if our customers will often be the very last to realize it.

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


Return to posts index

Shane Ross
Re: The Future Is DVD?
on Feb 12, 2014 at 9:50:00 pm

Bill, I know the apps work. I use DVD SP...as well as just playing out to a DVD Recorder. As for labels, they still make those adhesive ones, so I use those on occasion, as my DVD Printer broke. But I know they still make DVD printers, still sell them, and still sell printable DVDs. So that industry knows they are still used.

Kevin...thanks for clarifying. Didn't realize Encore was still sold. I can understand not upgrading it...if it already does what is needed, what's to upgrade?

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


Return to posts index

Oliver Peters
Re: The Future Is DVD?
on Feb 13, 2014 at 1:58:49 am

FWIW - if you need one-offs and not authored DVDs, you can still do that In Compressor, FCP X and Squeeze, among others. Same for Blu-rays, too.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


Return to posts index

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
© 2017 CreativeCOW.net All Rights Reserved
[TOP]