FORUMS: list search recent posts

What ever happened to this?

COW Forums : Adobe Creative Cloud Debate

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
Chris Pettit
What ever happened to this?
on Jan 16, 2014 at 2:11:15 am

I'm starting to really wonder why this particular blog announcement has led to ZERO follow up from Adobe:

http://blogs.adobe.com/creativecloud/our-move-to-creative-cloud-an-update/

Any speculation? Why did this simply fall off the cliff?


Return to posts index

Joseph W. Bourke
Re: What ever happened to this?
on Jan 16, 2014 at 2:52:34 am

My guess would be that either it's such a sticky issue that management can't come to a consensus, or they're just hiding under a pile of coats and hoping it will go away.

Joe Bourke
Owner/Creative Director
Bourke Media
http://www.bourkemedia.com


Return to posts index

Chris Pettit
Re: What ever happened to this?
on Jan 16, 2014 at 3:32:54 am
Last Edited By Chris Pettit on Jan 16, 2014 at 3:35:30 am

[Joseph W. Bourke] "My guess would be that either it's such a sticky issue that management can't come to a consensus, or they're just hiding under a pile of coats and hoping it will go away."

Agreed. I heard (unofficially) at one point a couple of months ago that the issue (Adobe internally) is exactly that: consensus.

But no way to confirm that. It always helps to get others opinions.


Return to posts index


David Lawrence
Re: What ever happened to this?
on Jan 16, 2014 at 3:23:14 am

[Chris Pettit] "Any speculation? Why did this simply fall off the cliff?"

It's been what, close to 8 months since that announcement? This isn't rocket science. You'd think the seventh largest software company on Planet Earth could figure it out by now.

Maybe (as Todd said in the previous thread) they really are working on it and will make announcement at NAB?

_______________________
David Lawrence
art~media~design~research
propaganda.com
publicmattersgroup.com
facebook.com/dlawrence
twitter.com/dhl
vimeo.com/dlawrence/albums


Return to posts index

Chris Pettit
Re: What ever happened to this?
on Jan 16, 2014 at 3:34:52 am

[David Lawrence] "Maybe (as Todd said in the previous thread) they really are working on it and will make announcement at NAB?"

I'm hopeful David. And I agree that NAB seems like a good time to either announce adjustments, or make it clear that they have no intention of doing so.


Return to posts index

Andrew Kimery
Re: What ever happened to this?
on Jan 16, 2014 at 5:33:55 pm

Probably a mix of both, Chris. I really, really, really doubt Adobe will go back to offering PL versions like in the past so they are trying to figure out how to adjust the subscription model to satisfy both the disgruntled users and their stock holders. Unfortunately the stock is at an all time high (and just keeps climbing) and if Adobe goes "Hey, you know that reliable, steady income we started taking in? Yeah, that's going to stop." then the stock is going to start trending down instead of up.

Even though it's been months since that announcement I'm not feeling inpatient yet. I mean, we are asking them to fundamentally change their business model after they just successfully (at least for investors) fundamentally changed their business model. CC first launched late in 2011 and it wasn't until mid 2013 that they went all in. So from concept to all in I wouldn't be surprise if CC was a 4 or 5 year process and anything that's going to alter that course isn't going to happen in a matter of months.

Hell, maybe all the Adobe execs selling stock recently know that changes to appease users are coming and that Wall Street won't be happy about it so they are getting out while the getting is good.


I'm still waiting for more services since Adobe wants to be in the Software as a Service game. Behance and cloud storage are both kinda meh since I can get (or already have) access to similar services for less. Adobe Anywhere is cool but it has a pretty limited scope and is relatively expensive to implement.

If Adobe wants to keep me as a customer long term they need to start rolling out some magical things that just couldn't be done under the previous business model and so far I haven't seen it. Yes, the rapid fire updates are nice and I'm glad that the product teams at Adobe have more freedom to address problems and add features (as opposed to having to focus on just shiny, new features on a fixed, come-hell-or-high-water, development schedule) but I'm still waiting for that 'killer app' that makes me go, "Wow. now THAT's why I don't mind paying $50/mo!"




Return to posts index


Chris Pettit
Re: What ever happened to this?
on Jan 16, 2014 at 6:43:47 pm

[Andrew Kimery] " I really, really, really doubt Adobe will go back to offering PL versions like in the past so they are trying to figure out how to adjust the subscription model to satisfy both the disgruntled users and their stock holders."

Yes, while I personally would like a full return to PLs, I agree that's very unlikely to happen. That's why so many people have asked for the "off ramp" option to be implemented. We subscribe just like everyone else, with the guaranteed income for Adobe just like everyone else, but eventually we've got the protection we need and deserve.


[Andrew Kimery] "Hell, maybe all the Adobe execs selling stock recently know that changes to appease users are coming and that Wall Street won't be happy about it so they are getting out while the getting is good."

Why would Wall Street be unhappy if they simply offered a way to protect the work long term? Not only does in not kill off subscriptions, I would suggest it would increase them, because everyone who was happy with subscriptions stays, only now many of us who are boycotting would add to the mix? The only explanation I can think of is not that they're worried about losing subscriptions, but that they're worried about losing permanent - obligated subscriptions. And of course that calculation is all about churn. Is it better financially for Adobe to accommodate us in the long run or force us out? That may be at the core of what they're struggling with


Return to posts index

David Mathis
Re: What ever happened to this?
on Jan 16, 2014 at 8:10:36 pm

They often say silence is golden but in this case I am not so sure. I am hoping some major announcement will be made at NAB like everyone else. I do appreciate Kevin and Todd for addressing our issues as best they can. They represent the good in Adobe and knows what it means to look out for even the small guy.


Return to posts index

Mike Chambers
Re: What ever happened to this?
on Jan 16, 2014 at 9:08:01 pm

Chris,

The main reason there hasn't been an update is because we don't have an update. We are continuing to explore solutions around this (as we know the current solutions don't meet the needs of everyone), but we don't expect to make any changes / announcements around this in the near future.

In general, we are focusing our efforts on continuing to innovate in our creative apps, as well as building out the platform and infrastructure for Creative Cloud, with a particular focus on the service layer for 2014.

Hope that helps clarify...

mike chambers

mesh@adobe.com


Return to posts index


Chris Pettit
Re: What ever happened to this?
on Jan 16, 2014 at 9:37:40 pm

[Mike Chambers] "The main reason there hasn't been an update is because we don't have an update. We are continuing to explore solutions around this (as we know the current solutions don't meet the needs of everyone), but we don't expect to make any changes / announcements around this in the near future."

Wow. Poof. There goes our (obviously misplaced) hope to hear something good at NAB or anytime soon for that matter. CS6 it is then.

Deeply disappointed and frankly perplexed Mike. Why would Adobe announce changes and then 8 months later say simply we don't have an update? Makes those of us who expected Adobe to make good on it's commitment ,eventually anyway, feel just a little misled.

But I very much appreciate you taking the time to let us know what you know at this point Mike. One of the worst parts of all this has been the lack of communication from Adobe, so sharing what you are able to at this point is very helpful and sincerely appreciated.


Return to posts index

Aindreas Gallagher
Re: What ever happened to this?
on Jan 16, 2014 at 9:43:49 pm

well that's that then. they're running as they stand with the declared shareholder numbers goal to the end of 2015.

that is if they don't start running out of steam.

the fact that they don't give two damns about the real fears in their customer base is what would annoy you.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


Return to posts index

Mike Chambers
Re: What ever happened to this?
on Jan 16, 2014 at 9:46:52 pm

[Chris Pettit] "But I very much appreciate you taking the time to let us know what you know at this point Mike. One of the worst parts of all this has been the lack of communication from Adobe, so sharing what you are able to at this point is very helpful and sincerely appreciated."

No problem. I watch this list regularly, but don't post all the time because all of my posts get moderated for some reason (and thus by the time it is approved, it is out of the flow of the ongoing conversation).

mike chambers

mesh@adobe.com


Return to posts index


David Mathis
Re: What ever happened to this?
on Jan 16, 2014 at 10:23:25 pm
Last Edited By David Mathis on Jan 16, 2014 at 10:26:11 pm

Mike,

Thank you for letting us know about the current situation. I sincerely hope that Adobe will bring back the old license as well but as of now it does not appear to be in the works. I really do like After Effects but not having a clear exit strategy is what frightens me the most. Perhaps we will hear some better news by the time NAB gets here. I really appreciate you for taking time to let us know what is going on. I appreciate what you, Todd and Kevin have done for us. You are a great group of people.

Sincerely,

David


Return to posts index

Mike Chambers
Re: What ever happened to this?
on Jan 16, 2014 at 10:25:56 pm

[David Mathis] "I sincerely hope that Adobe will bring back the old license as well"

David, thanks for the input. Just to be clear and upfront, any changes / solutions around this will be within the current creative cloud model.

mike chambers

mesh@adobe.com


Return to posts index

David Smith
Re: What ever happened to this?
on Jan 17, 2014 at 7:07:50 am

[Chris Pettit] "I'm starting to really wonder why this particular blog announcement has led to ZERO follow up from Adobe:"

That letter came out when the outrage against Adobe's announcement of a forced subscription model was at its peak. I have no doubt it was written mainly to placate us (obviously, it didn't work on me), and try to buy them some time. I think they hoped that over time people would simply just accept forced subscription. For the most part, now they act like there is no issue at all.

They probably never had any intention of giving us a proper exit strategy. A proper exit strategy would entirely undermine what they're obviously trying to achieve, which is a more consistent revenue stream and a system where their users are locked in for life, at least if they want to be able to access their project files again.

That letter reminds me of how Adobe representatives love to say you will always have "access" to your files, as if just being able to open the folder that contains the files is access. Clearly we have different definitions of access. For me, access means being able to open, edit, save the files and otherwise do anything you could with fully activated software. A proper exit strategy requires that.


[Mike Chambers] "Just to be clear and upfront, any changes / solutions around this will be within the current creative cloud model."

With comments like this, I'm sure we can't expect any sort of proper exit strategy. A proper exit strategy includes software that is completely unlocked; without having to be connected to the internet ever again, no more need to connect to Adobe's buggy servers, and without glitches where the software might "forget" it's been unlocked. And most importantly, never paying Adobe another dime.

Ultimately, any sort of proper exit strategy boils down to a perpetual license, whether it's sold from the beginning or after a few years as part of a loyalty buyout plan that freezes and unlocks the most recent version. For the few decent people left at Adobe that actually have decision making power, I bet their heads are spinning trying to come up with a proper exit strategy that doesn't undermine decrees like Mike Chambers' above. Frankly, I can't come up with an exit strategy idea that doesn't involve some sort of perpetual license.

It almost doesn't matter anymore. I think a lot of us are going to move on to other companies soon, and leave Adobe in the garbage where it belongs. The fact is simple: Adobe used to be a good company, and now it isn't.


Return to posts index


Rainer Schubert
Re: What ever happened to this?
on Jan 17, 2014 at 12:37:27 pm

Well said...
That´s it.


Return to posts index

Morten Ranmar
Re: What ever happened to this?
on Jan 17, 2014 at 3:54:06 pm

[Mike Chambers] "any changes / solutions around this will be within the current creative cloud model."

So could we expect a "special deal" like the Photoshop/Lightworks deal? Most of us only need the programs previously offered in the "Production BVundle". Could we expect a deal, and locking the price for a number of years, for the programs related to video production?

- No Parking Production -

Adobe CC, 3 x MacPro, 3 x MbP, Ethernet File Server w. Areca ThunderRaid 8.... and FCPX on trial


Return to posts index

Andrew Kimery
Re: What ever happened to this?
on Jan 16, 2014 at 11:11:21 pm

[Chris Pettit] "Why would Wall Street be unhappy if they simply offered a way to protect the work long term?"

It depends on what solution they came up with. If somehow CC became optional I'm sure that would not help the stock price. I was mostly being tongue in cheek though in light of the previous threads about people at Adobe doing the unthinkable and turning 'paper profits' into actual profits. ;)


[Chris Pettit] "Deeply disappointed and frankly perplexed Mike. Why would Adobe announce changes and then 8 months later say simply we don't have an update? Makes those of us who expected Adobe to make good on it's commitment ,eventually anyway, feel just a little misled. "

Because the angry mob at the gates months ago were demanding Adobe say something so Adobe did. Even though no one thinking clearly would expect Adobe (nor any company of equal size) to turn on a dime and undue a fundamental change to their business model that most likely was years in the making.

As to why Adobe isn't spilling the beans now? Honestly, what large publicly traded company would openly discuss fundamental changes to their financial business model that they may or may not be planning? I'm sure Adobe is still waiting to see if Plan A works and if it doesn't then they'll trot out Plan B.




Return to posts index

Chris Pettit
Re: What ever happened to this?
on Jan 16, 2014 at 11:22:12 pm
Last Edited By Chris Pettit on Jan 17, 2014 at 12:28:03 am

[Andrew Kimery] "Because the angry mob at the gates months ago were demanding Adobe say something so Adobe did. "

Right. It's our fault. We forced a billion dollar company to make an announcement against their will.

[Andrew Kimery] "Even though no one thinking clearly would expect Adobe (nor any company of equal size) to turn on a dime and undue a fundamental change to their business model that most likely was years in the making."

Those expectations were set by Adobe, no one else. Greg Wilson used terms like "soon" and "shortly" as just one example.

EDIT: I didnt mean to imply GW was mistaken. Just that obviously higher ups choose a different path for now


Return to posts index

Andrew Kimery
Re: What ever happened to this?
on Jan 16, 2014 at 11:52:59 pm

[Chris Pettit] "Right. It's our fault. We forced a billion dollar company to make an announcement against their will."

So if Adobe said nothing at all that would've worked out better? It's a no win situation from a PR perspective. After just a few days of the CC announcement people were yelling because they hadn't heard anything official from Adobe and I just remember how unrealistic people we being. I know people were upset but c'mon...

[Chris Pettit] "Those expectations were set by Adobe, no one else. Greg Wilson used terms like "soon" and "shortly" as just one example."

Color me jaded but, for reasons already stated, I never expected anything "soon" or "shortly" or at least not what normal people consider soon. I've also spent a lot of time working at giant conglomerates where major financial moves/capital expenditures are planned for 12-36 months in advance so I guess I processed 'soon' to be sometime in the next year or so. Hell, we were always 12 months or so behind software updates in part because it took months to get the budget request approved by all the people that had to sign off on it.

As long as Adobe is hitting it's numbers then they are going to stick with Plan A and I wouldn't expect any talk about Plan B to surface until Adobe announces it's going with Plan B. Aindreas is right that the only way Adobe is going to change course is if enough people boycott CC but it's hard to get people to boycott something they need to make a living (which is of course what Adobe is banking on).

I had actually let my CC plan lapse this summer but then people offered me good gigs that required CC so I started up the subscription again. I would like Adobe to provide a off ramp and I would like to be part of a contingent of users that helps leverage that wish into a reality, but I like being able to pay my bills more. ;)




Return to posts index

Chris Pettit
Re: What ever happened to this?
on Jan 17, 2014 at 12:15:52 am
Last Edited By Chris Pettit on Jan 17, 2014 at 12:23:18 am

[Andrew Kimery] "Color me jaded but, for reasons already stated, I never expected anything "soon" or "shortly" or at least not what normal people consider soon."

yeah, I agree. I had the same expectations actually. I was surprised for example to hear that there was still anyone "looking into this".

But there is still nothing wrong with attempting to hold them to their commitments - if at all possible.

But alas, nothing more to be done overall. 2014 does not appear to be a year that Adobe is going to address any of the core issues, that is apparently that. It's like a slow motion divorce.

I do appreciate that I have the official word though. I'm getting ready to have a new 24 core XEON machine built. Now I know waiting to install new CC software on it is no longer necessary.


Return to posts index

Andrew Kimery
Re: What ever happened to this?
on Jan 17, 2014 at 12:31:10 am

[Chris Pettit] "yeah, I agree. I had the same expectations actually. I was surprised for example to hear that there was still anyone "looking into this"."

As the saying goes; hope for the best, prepare for the worst.




Return to posts index

Ricardo Marty
Re: What ever happened to this?
on Jan 17, 2014 at 5:17:37 am

What good is the stock prices if adobe keeps selling cc below the original price when not giving it out for free.


Return to posts index

Andrew Kimery
Re: What ever happened to this?
on Jan 17, 2014 at 9:22:25 am

[Ricardo Marty] "What good is the stock prices if adobe keeps selling cc below the original price when not giving it out for free."

Stock prices are based on perception not performance so there's always some sort of voodoo involved. If the subscription method makes it easier for Adobe's accountants to project more stable and increasing revenue then I'm sure the stock will keep going up. Even considering the sign up discounts it seems like projecting revenue would be easier because you just look at who is signed up and what they are paying as opposed to trying to make an educated guess about how many people will buy/upgrade when the latest version of the software comes out. This is just my uneducated, middle of the night guessing though.




Return to posts index

Rainer Schubert
Re: What ever happened to this?
on Jan 17, 2014 at 1:04:30 pm

Their income is still based most on selling perpetual licenses. You have to read their business reports very carefully to get that.
(That people, who are in panic, that Adobe will not sell them any more.
Which will happen soon, as Adobe needs to press more people into this so called "cloud" (to reach their Target of users and not losing face at WallStreet).
They made their numbers of subscribers - right.
But they don´t tell WallStreet, that the income of subscriptions is far away of what they planned (-> as they have to give discounts like hell).
("This offer will end soon" - LOL)

But there is still hope, that there are enough people, who will stay outside this "cloud".
Enough people who will leave Adobe & using competition instead.
And with that the income of Adobe will pull down (I hope & thanks to all the Not-Subscribers : ).

Wonder sometimes, if investors only look at the companies business reports...

They simply play the game till the end & that lasts...
Earliest in 2015 we will see if they if they got away successfully
(and no cent any more for words and promises [like "we are working hard on solutions..."] of Adobe).
Till this we will not see any good, old, fair licensing again.
But I hope I´m far away from Adobe then.

(BtW: I just needed the "PREZI" Presentation Software - But: Only available as "Subscription"-Model. So - NoGo.
If we - the users - still accept these conditions, there will be some nice day in the future, where our MACS/PCs will only startup, when there is enough money at our bank-account.
I simply don´t want this.)


Return to posts index

Ricardo Marty
Re: What ever happened to this?
on Jan 17, 2014 at 3:06:26 pm

Most people who buy stocks do it after a call from the broker and only worry when they see a loss.

Ricardo Marty


Return to posts index

Ricardo Marty
Re: What ever happened to this?
on Jan 17, 2014 at 1:28:19 pm

The perception is about money if adobes keeps lowering the price there will be much less of it.

adobe started offering lower cost 3 months after announcing cc only. that they are way below ecpected income.

Ricardi


Return to posts index

Andrew Kimery
Re: What ever happened to this?
on Jan 17, 2014 at 5:40:03 pm

[Ricardo Marty] "The perception is about money if adobes keeps lowering the price there will be much less of it. "

I'd argue the perception is about potential growth. The two are usually linked but not always. Apple, for example, never stopped making profits hand over fist but it's stocked still plummeted from $700 a share to under $300 before bouncing back a bit to the mid-500s. On the other side of the coin Amazon (as a whole) usually does not post profits but its stock has been going onward and upward pretty much since day 1 because investors see a lot of potential in what Amazon is doing (selling more than books, streaming video, commercial grade cloud computing service, Sunday delivery, etc.,) and that the company will explode in a cornucopia of profits one day.




Return to posts index

Ricardo Marty
Re: What ever happened to this?
on Jan 17, 2014 at 1:28:52 pm

The perception is about money if adobes keeps lowering the price there will be much less of it.

adobe started offering lower cost 3 months after announcing cc only. they are way below ecpected income.

Ricardo marty


Return to posts index

Herbert van der wegen
Re: What ever happened to this?
on Jan 17, 2014 at 10:51:20 am

It "clarifies" quite a bit to me. The execs have set their course, and that means I'll never go back to including any Adobe software in my workflow (I have been Adobe free now for over a year!).

Thanks for the tip.

/*----------------------------------------------------*/
System: Win7 64bit - i7 920@3.6Ghz, p6t Deluxe v1, 48gb (6x8gb RipjawsX), ATI 7970 3gb, EVGA 590 3GB, Revodrive X2 240gb, e-mu 1820. Screens: 2 x Samsung s27a850ds 2560x1440, HP 1920x1200 in portrait mode


Return to posts index

Andy Field
Re: What ever happened to this?
on Jan 17, 2014 at 10:11:06 pm

then why are you on this forum if you've been adobe free for a year? Just to complain?

Andy Field
FieldVision Productions
N. Bethesda, Maryland 20852


Return to posts index

Rainer Schubert
Re: What ever happened to this?
on Jan 18, 2014 at 11:01:39 am
Last Edited By Rainer Schubert on Jan 18, 2014 at 11:08:45 am

Why not "only for complain"?
Adobe trying to change software distribution in total together with microsoft.
If this kind of distribution will work successful, it will have efforts to other products too.
So this discussion is a principle one in my eyes.
I also try to get "Adobe free".
Still using my CS6 licenses, but searching very hard for (and investing in) the best alternatives.
And price isn´t the deal-breaker
(but too: If I & my work got dependent on Adobes SW - they can raise prices to...)
The missing exit is it.
I want to know my work is in a safe place.
Without that, I´m also here mostly for "complain" - like many others on many websites.

I see this discussion more in a way: Is it OK, renting your work or not?


Return to posts index

Andy Field
Re: What ever happened to this?
on Jan 20, 2014 at 2:39:50 pm

Renting your work? Producers and editors rent their work every day. We do a project for a client and give them a finished piece. If the client want to change something down the road they have to "rent" us again. We don't give them our hard drives and software and say "here you go - change whatever you'd like on your own"

That's the nature of a service business.

If you don't like it - don't use it - find something better. If enough people do that - Adobe will have to change their business plan. But to say you no longer use adobe products and found better alternatives...and then continue to complain about adobe products seems like a fruitless waste of time

Andy Field
FieldVision Productions
N. Bethesda, Maryland 20852


Return to posts index

Rainer Schubert
Re: What ever happened to this?
on Jan 20, 2014 at 3:16:01 pm

Fruitless or not.
I´m of the opinion, that Business models like that should be stopped.
Point behind.

And comparing the service (of doing artwork) to the service of delivering a product (software) still doesn´t work.


Return to posts index

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
© 2017 CreativeCOW.net All Rights Reserved
[TOP]