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Creative Cloud Q&A [Adobe guy]

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Dennis Radeke
Creative Cloud Q&A [Adobe guy]
on May 10, 2013 at 10:39:03 am

The last few days has seen quite a few discussions about Adobe's new licensing model. Some have attacked it, others defended it, many presenting their concerns and many presenting questions in a reasoned manner. All of this I think, is good and natural.

As promised, I will try to answer questions to the best of my ability. Before I do though, I think it best to get some things out of the way: Some of you won't agree with me. All I would ask is that you read, consider and of course make the decision that is best for you.

One disclaimer: I can't admit to having all of the answers. When I don't have an answer handy, I will try to find out and reply as soon as I can.

I have a strong recommendation for those that have concerns or wishing to know more about Creative Cloud: Spend some time at the Creative Cloud FAQ. There is a lot of good information there. Looking at some of the posts at the COW and elsewhere, I've seen some errors and misinformation and I don't think that's good for anybody.

So, after perusing the FAQ, if you have some concerns that aren't addressed there and you'd like to get some answers (if I can answer them) I would ask the following:

* Reply to this particular message and not the string of threads following - IOW don't reply to the last response in the thread - reply to this exact message
* Keep your language polite and your demeanor professional - if you don't, don't expect a reply from me
* Concisely outline your problem and/or objection and why you feel it is affecting you or your business


Beyond that, you can have at me and other Adobe folks here - politely of course!

Another thing, point other video peeps to this thread if they have questions. I won't be able to carry the load myself, but hopefully people will see the thread and get some answers to their questions.

In the end, Creative Cloud is a big change for some and many people will have to spend some time considering what it means to them before they arrive at a decision. As always, there are free trials to evaluate the products on their merits, which certainly factors into whether you want to get involved with Creative Cloud. I think before everyone flips out (whoops, too late for some), wait until the software is out and evaluate whether the products help you and your business or not. Then tackle your own personal Creative Cloud conundrum/decision. That sounds eminently rational to me.

I've always been a straight shooter: I'll be helpful whenever possible, honest at all times and I believe that this is always a good rule of thumb to follow as both an employee and as an individual.

Dennis - Adobe guy


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Oliver Peters
Re: Creative Cloud Q&A [Adobe guy]
on May 10, 2013 at 12:18:03 pm

Dennis,

One logical resolution to the dissatisfaction would be for Adobe to add some mechanism for a subscriber to buy-out a version of an application on a prorated basis, should they decide to end their subscription. As I understand it, this mechanism is already in place (for free) in the case of an app that Adobe decides to EOL, a la Soundbooth. So adding a prorated purchase shouldn't be too difficult. Thoughts?

Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Dennis Radeke
Re: Creative Cloud Q&A [Adobe guy]
on May 10, 2013 at 3:12:50 pm

[Oliver Peters] "One logical resolution to the dissatisfaction would be for Adobe to add some mechanism for a subscriber to buy-out a version of an application on a prorated basis, should they decide to end their subscription."

This is not currently a part of the Creative Cloud model and I can't comment (and don't know) on any possible future iterations of it. I can see how this idea in some form would allay many of the concerns among video users and Adobe users in general.


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Nathan Bezner
Re: Creative Cloud Q&A [Adobe guy]
on May 10, 2013 at 12:55:31 pm

Dennis,

Within the multitude of articles and Adobe forum posts I've seen over the past several days, I've read rumor that Adobe is considering two prospects that would alleviate my only two fears with Creative Cloud (and the two reasons I've decided that, in its current subscription form, I would never make the move):

One, that package options are being considered, at least for photography. For those of us that do not need the full Master Collection and see that we'll actually be paying a lot more than we use to, a "Production Premium" or "Design Premium" version of the cloud option at a reduced rate (say, $29.99 rather than $49.99) would go a long way. Is this rumor, that other package options are being considered/implemented, in any way true?

And two, Adobe is considering offering a stripped down version of their software packages for non-subscibers so you can at least open your files. Say you do, eventually, feel the financial burden and cannot continue the subscription until a paying job comes along again. I've had to put off upgrades due to lean months, though I eventually come back. With the subscription model, I can't do that. I've read rumor that Adobe is working on a way for people without a subscription to at least be able to access their files, open and export them, either for viewing or export to another software package in extreme emergency. Do you know if there is any weight to that rumor?

I really hope that these two rumors are true, as the subscription model would feel a lot less like a prison if so, at least to me.

Thank you for your time!

Nathan Bezner
Nightowl Pictures


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Dennis Radeke
Re: Creative Cloud Q&A [Adobe guy]
on May 10, 2013 at 3:27:09 pm

[Nathan Bezner] "I've read rumor that Adobe is considering two prospects that would alleviate my only two fears with Creative Cloud"

Nathan, I'm sorry, but I can't comment on rumors, because they're just that - rumors. There is a single app subscription plan that exists today: Membership Plans

Tackling the pricing objections: At $50 per month, you're looking at $600 per year assuming a) Adobe never offers a special and b) you don't already have some Adobe software that qualifies you for a discount. A suite to suite upgrade in video has typically cost around $599 for the last several releases, so the pricing model is 100% in line. As Walter Soyka and others have mentioned a couple of times (and Adobe has talked about and demonstrated in 2012), we will continue to add features, products and services to the subscription and I know that the value of the subscription model will continue to increase. CNET has also come to much the same conclusion: CNET article

I hope this helps and again, sorry I can't comment on rumors.

A reminder to people who might want to chime in on this answer - respond to the original post or you won't get an answer from me! ;-)


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Roland R. Kahlenberg
Re: Creative Cloud Q&A [Adobe guy]
on May 11, 2013 at 8:52:14 am

[Dennis Radeke] "Nathan, I'm sorry, but I can't comment on rumors, because they're just that - rumors. There is a single app subscription plan that exists today:"

If you cannot comment, then don't post!!!

WTF!!!!!

Bestest
RoRK

Intensive mocha & AE Training in Singapore and Other Dangerous Locations

Imagineer Systems (mocha) Certified Instructor
& Adobe After Effects CS6 ACE


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Chris Harlan
Re: Creative Cloud Q&A [Adobe guy]
on May 11, 2013 at 10:04:28 am

[Roland R. Kahlenberg] "[Dennis Radeke] "Nathan, I'm sorry, but I can't comment on rumors, because they're just that - rumors. There is a single app subscription plan that exists today:"

If you cannot comment, then don't post!!!

WTF!!!!!
"


Seriously? Why? S o that you can then scream at him for NOT responding. He's a spokesman for a company, to which, he has responsibilities and obligations. Chill out.


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Roland R. Kahlenberg
Re: Creative Cloud Q&A [Adobe guy]
on May 11, 2013 at 10:19:16 am

[Chris Harlan] "Seriously? Why? S o that you can then scream at him for NOT responding. He's a spokesman for a company, to which, he has responsibilities and obligations. Chill out."

The people who should write here and respond are NOT here! If you cannot see this then go screw somewhere else. FOr many of us, we can read between the lines.

I've had enough of BS from corporate Adobe and other corporate types!

I repeat, and I add, if Adobe employees cannot answer stringent questions then please get your colleagues who can to answer!

It's totally pathetic to initiate threads when it is obvious that you are not able to answer.

The gist of it is that YOUR CEO cannot even provide a decent answer on a similar topic. How then are you to answer for HIM, for Adobe?!

Your CEO and the lot in the company that pretends to do this CC and a lot of other SH*T for their customers should get some help on how to manage this huge shift in product shipment. It's no secret that there would be a lot oh hoohah!

The fact, I reiterate, that your CEO couldn't answer basic questions pertaining to customer relations as a result of this shift in pricing and product ownership should be obvious that someone else at Adobe should put their hands up and ask for more assistance because this is leading to a huge nuisance and a waste of webspace!

That Adobe cares for its customers is the primary reason for the shift to Adobe CC is what I would expect Hitler to say - the BIG LIE!!!

Don't make me waste my time any further cos I haven't even started at the marketing bits that have been put forth. I've thought of what they should have said to appease the 'crowd' but they're possibly smarter than me and won't obligate themselves unnecessarily.

What Dennis should rightly do is to get his CEO and/or relevant colleagues at Adobe to reply.

BLEH! MEH! ;-)
RoRK

Intensive mocha & AE Training in Singapore and Other Dangerous Locations

Imagineer Systems (mocha) Certified Instructor
& Adobe After Effects CS6 ACE


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Chris Harlan
Re: Creative Cloud Q&A [Adobe guy]
on May 11, 2013 at 10:42:28 am

Dude, you are a trip. MY CEO? I have no affiliation with Adobe. I just didn't like your shouting at somebody who was only doing his job, and, because of that job can't respond to you in kind.


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Roland R. Kahlenberg
Re: Creative Cloud Q&A [Adobe guy]
on May 11, 2013 at 2:08:48 pm

You must think a lot of yourself to think that I was referring to you!!! sheesh!!!

RoRK

Intensive mocha & AE Training in Singapore and Other Dangerous Locations

Imagineer Systems (mocha) Certified Instructor
& Adobe After Effects CS6 ACE


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Chris Harlan
Re: Creative Cloud Q&A [Adobe guy]
on May 11, 2013 at 6:00:17 pm

[Roland R. Kahlenberg] "You must think a lot of yourself to think that I was referring to you!!! sheesh!!!
"


Oh, dear God. So, does the "you" you are using here refer to me? As opposed to the string of "YOUR"s that you were using in a post to me? How else, exactly, was I supposed to interpret the oft-repeated phrase "your CEO" as meaning anything other than "my CEO?"

NOTE: When I use "YOU" I am referring to you, not to some third party. For example, in the statement "You are a glass of orange juice," "You" refers to you, while glass refers to a type of transparent container, and "orange juice" refers to a delicious, healthful beverage enjoyed worldwide.

Is English a second language for you? (Yes, you.) Either way, brush up on the use of possessive pronouns.

PS: I don't know if I particularly "think a lot of myself," but I'm okay with the way I turned out.


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Chris Harlan
Re: Creative Cloud Q&A [Adobe guy]
on May 12, 2013 at 12:23:57 am

[Roland R. Kahlenberg] "You scumbag, pathetic moron! "

That's me!

[Roland R. Kahlenberg] "There is such a thing as a typo! "

Let's count:

"Your CEO and the lot in the company that pretends..."

"How then are you to answer for HIM, for Adobe?!"

"The gist of it is that YOUR CEO cannot even provide..."

"The fact, I reiterate, that your CEO couldn't answer basic questions..."

Wow. How could I ever have thought you were talking to me?

[Roland R. Kahlenberg] "Take your scumbag ways somewhere where it can be appreciated."

Okay. But you know were all gonna laugh at this when you finally sober up, right?


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Ryan Holmes
Re: Creative Cloud Q&A [Adobe guy]
on May 11, 2013 at 12:05:51 pm

[Roland R. Kahlenberg] "That Adobe cares for its customers is the primary reason for the shift to Adobe CC is what I would expect Hitler to say - the BIG LIE!!!"

Excellent....not even a week into the discussion and Godwin's Law has already been fulfilled. Please try to argue your points with a little perspective. The CC rollout is not in any way analogous to Hitler slaughtering millions of human lives in an attempt to create a racially pure world.

I'm sorry my friend, you lose. Please try again later.

Ryan Holmes
http://www.ryanholmes.me
@CutColorPost


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Roland R. Kahlenberg
Re: Creative Cloud Q&A [Adobe guy]
on May 11, 2013 at 6:43:54 pm

I should pity you that you found it obvious to take my words literally, to make an issue of it, but I don't. I shouldn't waste my time.

Cheers
RoRK

Intensive mocha & AE Training in Singapore and Other Dangerous Locations

Imagineer Systems (mocha) Certified Instructor
& Adobe After Effects CS6 ACE


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Kevin Monahan
Re: Creative Cloud Q&A [Adobe guy]
on May 10, 2013 at 4:13:37 pm

Hi Nathan,
I can probably add to what Dennis had to offer:

1. Regarding bundling certain apps together for a lower priced subscription, Photoshop evangelist Jeffrey Trani offered the following on his blog:

We’ve heard there’s a lot of interest in a photographer’s bundle or photography cloud solution and we’re actively exploring offerings we can potentially create for you: http://blogs.adobe.com/photoshopdotcom/2013/05/answering-your-questions-abo...

I think it is entirely possible to offer something similar to post production pros. AE+Premiere+Photoshop, for example. Feel free to suggest this to the product teams: http://www.adobe.com/go/wish

2. AE QE Todd Kopriva suggests this: Subscribe to an app for a single month or fire up a trial version to open up previous projects to make small changes if you no longer have access to Creative Cloud.

Hope that helps.

Kevin Monahan
Social Support Lead
Adobe After Effects
Adobe Premiere Pro
Adobe Systems, Inc.
Follow Me on Twitter!


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Kevin Monahan
Re: Creative Cloud Q&A [Adobe guy]
on May 10, 2013 at 4:34:58 pm

[Kevin Monahan] "Jeffrey Trani "

Correction: I meant Jeffrey Tranberry

Kevin Monahan
Social Support Lead
Adobe After Effects
Adobe Premiere Pro
Adobe Systems, Inc.
Follow Me on Twitter!


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Tim Kolb
Re: Creative Cloud Q&A [Adobe guy]
on May 10, 2013 at 1:03:46 pm

Thanks for popping in , Dennis. Hopefully the restless here can be on their best behavior and something constructive can be discussed.

For forum posters: Keep in mind that there are rules on what a public company can talk about, and decisions not yet made are one of those touchy areas. Dennis can tell us what IS...but will be limted on what he can disclose about what is being considered.

TimK,
Director, Consultant
Kolb Productions,

Adobe Certified Instructor


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TImothy Auld
Re: Creative Cloud Q&A [Adobe guy]
on May 10, 2013 at 3:31:10 pm

There are indeed rules. None of them that I know of prevent a company from directly responding to consumer complaints. Their lawyers/shareholders might not want them to respond (and I can understand that in a lot of cases) but to posit that they are constrained by rules and regulations in that regard is not really accurate.

Tim


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Tim Kolb
Re: Creative Cloud Q&A [Adobe guy]
on May 10, 2013 at 4:05:08 pm

[TImothy Auld] "Their lawyers/shareholders might not want them to respond (and I can understand that in a lot of cases) but to posit that they are constrained by rules and regulations in that regard is not really accurate."

Well...as Dennis said in a response to Nathan, he can't respond to rumors...or as I said "decisions not yet made."

If there is something that lawyers don't want you to say, it probably has a potential legal consequence, yes?

It's not that big a deal other than if anyone was expecting Dennis to be able to say whether or not Adobe was even considering whether or not to alter the current system, he isn't going to talk about anything before it's decided.

...that's all.

TimK,
Director, Consultant
Kolb Productions,

Adobe Certified Instructor


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Tim Kolb
Re: Creative Cloud Q&A [Adobe guy]
on May 10, 2013 at 1:03:42 pm

Thanks for popping in , Dennis. Hopefully the restless here can be on their best behavior and something constructive can be discussed.

For forum posters: Keep in mind that there are rules on what a public company can talk about, and decisions not yet made are one of those touchy areas. Dennis can tell us what IS...but will be limted on what he can disclose about what is being considered.

TimK,
Director, Consultant
Kolb Productions,

Adobe Certified Instructor


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Bastiaan van Oorde
Re: Creative Cloud Q&A [Adobe guy]
on May 10, 2013 at 1:06:23 pm

I like what you are doing with the cloud, only pricing (and then especially EU pricing doesn't make any sense for me). If I want a yearly subscription for the Cloud in Europe its €737,- if I could continue upgrading my Production Premium it would cost me yearly €447,- (CS5.5 to CS6 pricing) or for Master Collection users €604,- (CS5.5 to CS6) . And yes I know I get a discount for the first year, but as soon as the second year arrives I start to pay a lot more compared to the upgrade path.

Now one thing that might have caused this, is the lack of exchange rate support from Adobe, you are basing EU pricing on an dollar to euro exchange rate of 1 to 1 (so your $49,99 becomes €61,49 if I add the VAT of 21%) which is a penalty of 30% we have to pay, because you don't understand exchange rates. Now you might start talking about localisations etc. but that would be a lie, because non of the video apps are localized to Dutch, and even things like the text analysis aren't compatibel with Dutch. So what I'm really saying is WHY DO WE HAVE TO PAY YOU THE BONUS???

I know you guys are adding all kinds of things to the Cloud, but as a Production Premium user most of it is unnecessary, and things like online storage are nice, but still overpriced. And as Angie Taylor already said on Twitter, paying more for a rental instead of a purchase doesn't make sense.

Fixing the EU penalty we have to pay due to the lack of proper exchange rate usage, would probably solve most of the complaints from the EU, and make the upgrade more sensible. So please look at that.

Thanks for your time.


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Dennis Radeke
Re: Creative Cloud Q&A [Adobe guy]
on May 10, 2013 at 3:49:15 pm

Bastiaan,

I frankly don't know the answer to this. I know about the VAT and that the exchange rates do affect the pricing. To some extent, it may be the cost of international business for US companies but I don't want to put that out there as an excuse or an answer - because in the end I don't know. I wish I had a better answer for you, but I don't. If I can get any feedback on this and have something to report, I will definitely respond again.


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Bastiaan van Oorde
Re: Creative Cloud Q&A [Adobe guy]
on May 10, 2013 at 3:59:51 pm

Thanks for the fast response. I hope you can get more information, because here in the Netherlands a lot of people are kinda angry about that 30% penalty. Especially since when we buy services like Vimeo Plus or Dropbox, we just go straight to the US site and get the product for the correct exchange rate with as the only extra cost the V.A.T. which is logical.


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Kevin Monahan
Re: Creative Cloud Q&A [Adobe guy]
on May 10, 2013 at 4:27:21 pm

Like Dennis, I don't have much information about this, however, I agree that pricing is a problem for some of our overseas customers. At a meeting yesterday with the Sr. Vice President, I stood up to the mic and expressed concern on behalf of our overseas customers. What I came away with is:

1. The cost of business is about 20% higher when dealing with foreign countries.
2. We don't have much control over VAT and local taxes.
3. We can do a much better job of explaining our pricing to our overseas customers.

Sorry that we don't have a better answer for you right now, but I'll continue to investigate this problem.

Kevin Monahan
Social Support Lead
Adobe After Effects
Adobe Premiere Pro
Adobe Systems, Inc.
Follow Me on Twitter!


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Bastiaan van Oorde
Re: Creative Cloud Q&A [Adobe guy]
on May 10, 2013 at 5:35:07 pm

Okay so 20% of the 30% could be explained by this (still odd that non of the other Cloud services have this added). Still not there yet, so I'm interested in more info.

The thing that makes this so hard to accept, is that the price for US and EU are clearly the same 49,99, EU price is €61,49 minus the VAT you get €49,99. So it's plain to see that the value difference between euros and dollars (1 euro is at the moment about 1,30 dollars) is completely ignored.

And as I said before, Adobe is the only company I know that adds such a large penalty.


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Kevin Monahan
Re: Creative Cloud Q&A [Adobe guy]
on May 10, 2013 at 6:18:56 pm

[Bastiaan van Oorde] "The thing that makes this so hard to accept, is that the price for US and EU are clearly the same 49,99, EU price is €61,49 minus the VAT you get €49,99. So it's plain to see that the value difference between euros and dollars (1 euro is at the moment about 1,30 dollars) is completely ignored.

And as I said before, Adobe is the only company I know that adds such a large penalty."


I'm very sorry about that, and you're right, it doesn't seem fair. I'll continue looking into providing some answers for you, but I'm afraid I have limited influence in this matter.

OT: The Euro has been so strong for so long, hasn't it? So has the British Pound. Let's not even talk about the Yen! Unfortunately, it's prevented me from visiting these places I used to go.

Kevin Monahan
Social Support Lead
Adobe After Effects
Adobe Premiere Pro
Adobe Systems, Inc.
Follow Me on Twitter!


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John Young
Re: Creative Cloud Q&A [Adobe guy]
on May 10, 2013 at 1:26:41 pm

Dennis,
This kind of Q&A and responsiveness from Adobe is appreciated, but with that being said, I have got one real big concern that I would like you to address in a Creative Cloud scenario.

-If I spend hours and days and weeks working very hard on a After Effects project (for example). I finish it and deliver it. Then a few years later, I decide not to continue my CC subscription. Am I unable to even open those project files that I have on my computer? Do I loose access to all my previous hard work? Do I then have to pay Adobe to access the work I have already done?

A straight forward response would be appreciated. Thanks.

John

John Young
Surrounding Media
Follow on Twitter


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Dennis Radeke
Re: Creative Cloud Q&A [Adobe guy]
on May 10, 2013 at 3:42:02 pm

[John Young] "-If I spend hours and days and weeks working very hard on a After Effects project (for example). I finish it and deliver it. Then a few years later, I decide not to continue my CC subscription. Am I unable to even open those project files that I have on my computer? Do I loose access to all my previous hard work? Do I then have to pay Adobe to access the work I have already done?"

Hi John,

The real value in the asset is the finished asset. That is yours, that is what you make money on and so forth. However, two things affect your scenario. First, there is a 90 day grace period spelled out in the FAQ. I think that is pretty generous. If you needed to revisit the AE project at a much later date having cancelled your subscription, you can turn on your subscription for a single month if necessary at $74.95. If you're making an income by revisiting this project, then that is the cost of doing business and you can and should bill your customer(s). If it is a personal project and it's really important to you to update, then the single month price would be the cost.

I hope this helps answer your question.


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John Young
Re: Creative Cloud Q&A [Adobe guy]
on May 10, 2013 at 6:29:30 pm

[Dennis Radeke] "The real value in the asset is the finished asset. That is yours, that is what you make money on and so forth. "

Thanks for the response Dennis. I just hope Adobe knows that many professionals like myslef don't feel comfortable with a company telling them us how the "real value in the asset" works for our specific businesses. Adobe is asking us to rent our own projects on a monthly basis. That is something Adobe should be aware of and it makes a lot of us a little uneasy.

John Young
Surrounding Media
Follow on Twitter


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Kevin Monahan
Re: Creative Cloud Q&A [Adobe guy]
on May 10, 2013 at 8:23:40 pm

Hi John,
Keep in mind that our applications have export capabilities built in. For example, you could export an AAF file from Premiere and recreate it in Avid Media Composer. So, you could have files that could be opened in competing products should you feel the need to stop subscribing. A lot of programs can open a PSD, as well.

Probably not the ideal answer, but IMHO, it is possible to future proof most of the work you do currently.

Kevin

Kevin Monahan
Social Support Lead
Adobe After Effects
Adobe Premiere Pro
Adobe Systems, Inc.
Follow Me on Twitter!


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Greg Jones
Re: Creative Cloud Q&A [Adobe guy]
on May 10, 2013 at 2:03:14 pm

I agree that there should be some tiered solutions for people. I for one like access to everything, but like the other poster noted, if they offered a 'Production Premium' Tier or a 'Web Design' Tier, it might be more palatable for people. Do you think Adobe is considering something like this? I tried to make a 'feature request' but could not find a 'creative cloud' section to post.

Also will there be an 'Archive' Capability to basically download all your files that are online, easily?

How will accessing older versions of the software work?

Greg Jones
D7,Inc.

Greg Jones
Orlando,Fl.
http://www.d7-inc.com


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Dennis Radeke
Re: Creative Cloud Q&A [Adobe guy]
on May 10, 2013 at 3:44:32 pm

[Greg Jones] "Do you think Adobe is considering something like this?"

Unfortunately, I cannot comment on speculation, rumor or what Adobe 'may' do in the future. Candidly, I like my job and want to keep it! ;-)

[Greg Jones] "I tried to make a 'feature request' but could not find a 'creative cloud' section to post. "

I do think you should make your 'feature request' heard in whatever manner or product is most important to you - I am confident that it will get to the right people in Adobe.

[Greg Jones] "Also will there be an 'Archive' Capability to basically download all your files that are online, easily?"

See first answer, but that is a very good idea.


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James Taylor
Re: Creative Cloud Q&A [Adobe guy]
on May 10, 2013 at 2:35:49 pm

Dennis,

Was there any thought to possibly turning Premiere & Photoshop Elements into Light Pro versions? A Light Pro version that could open current CC files. Obviously wouldn't have all the bells and whistles, but could be used to open projects should a professional decide they no longer needed the full CC experience?

Thanks for your time,

JT


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Tim Kolb
Re: Creative Cloud Q&A [Adobe guy]
on May 10, 2013 at 2:51:21 pm

This idea of calling up work with some sort of lite version, etc. now triggers the thought of plugins.

If you need to call something back and you've since abandoned the host software, chances are good you didn't continue with your 3rd party plugins...

I suppose that isn't really any different from how it is now if you have the version compatible with the version of the host software you've retained...

TimK,
Director, Consultant
Kolb Productions,

Adobe Certified Instructor


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Dennis Radeke
Re: Creative Cloud Q&A [Adobe guy]
on May 10, 2013 at 3:52:34 pm

[James Taylor] "Was there any thought to possibly turning Premiere & Photoshop Elements into Light Pro versions?"

Again, I cannot comment on this and I spend absolutely zero time investing into either of those programs. They are very focused on consumers and Premiere Pro, After Effects, et al are clearly professional programs. My feeling is that even if Adobe did that, it would frustrate more users than it addresses. Pro users want Pro features. My personal (non-Adobe) 2 cents.


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Tim Kolb
Re: Creative Cloud Q&A [Adobe guy]
on May 10, 2013 at 3:16:00 pm

I know that some here probably see me as an Adobe 'plant' (Dennis knows better), but I see a couple specific concerns.

1. The "everything" product model just isn't going to make clear value sense for many. Having Web design software on my machine doesn't make me a Web designer. Having access to those tools doesn't add value for me, particularly when the license is designed for one user...I can't even hire a Web designer and install those packages on another machine for different, but simultaneous use in the spirit of the license.

2. Installs from the Web as opposed to a downloaded, local installer is just not a great idea. If my download goes south when I'm grabbing a zipped installer, I delete it and start it over. If the link dies in the middle of an install of a group of applications, a corrupted install, possibly affected by a corrupt license mechanism could create real chaos for users, not to mention that having to get internet access to re-install a corrupt application while traveling is not appealing.

3. Questions on monthly fees... It looks as if the case for some of these plans is to bind the user to a year/6 month, whatever contract, but to bill it monthly. I understand what users are saying when they talk about the ridiculous fluctuations in cash flow that has become a part of our business. I think the monthly cost is less disconcerting than the idea that one month's fees don't go through, and now you have a problem. Paying 6 months at a time, or being able to add months to a standing account when the funds are available to do it might be interesting for some people.

...I'll leave it at those three for the moment.

Thanks again Dennis.

TimK,
Director, Consultant
Kolb Productions,

Adobe Certified Instructor


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Mark Dobson
Re: Creative Cloud Q&A [Adobe guy]
on May 10, 2013 at 3:47:13 pm

Tim,

Your first 2 points represent really valid concerns.

But what everyone is discussing at the moment ( forget the software ) is the inflexibility of the new business model. It's the removal of perpetual licences that is the core issue.

Plainly this something that Dennis has no control over but that's what a lot of people are up in arms about.

Dan Carr has written a clear overview and analysis over on Pro Video Coalition.

http://provideocoalition.com/dcarr/story/adobe-moves-creative-suite-to-the-...

He clearly demonstrates that from now on it's going to cost people a whole lot more money to use the latest Adobe software.

What's clear is that this issue is obscuring any discussion about the brilliant innovations that Adobe are bringing to the table.


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Tim Kolb
Re: Creative Cloud Q&A [Adobe guy]
on May 10, 2013 at 4:17:09 pm

[Mark Dobson] "But what everyone is discussing at the moment ( forget the software ) is the inflexibility of the new business model. It's the removal of perpetual licences that is the core issue. "

Yes...and my guess is that piece of it will be the hardest for the objectors to swallow, and the hardest aspect of it to actually change without circumventing the benefits of the subscription arrangement in the first place.

I have a feeling at this point that the subscription license can be improved, but the "We want perpetual licensing back...period" crowd are probably less likely to see the precise result they want.

...and since that "perpetual licensing" point is 80% of the noise right now, I thought I'd focus on some practical, less emotionally charged areas that only a few are thinking far ahead enough to put forward.

TimK,
Director, Consultant
Kolb Productions,

Adobe Certified Instructor


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Joseph W. Bourke
Re: Creative Cloud Q&A [Adobe guy]
on May 10, 2013 at 4:34:08 pm

Dennis -

Here's a thought - I have noticed that with CS6 the Adobe Media Encoder has become capable of outputting from After Effects projects. And Adobe Bridge is a pretty capable viewer. Would it not be possible (I know...I know...anything is possible) to make both AME and Bridge freestanding licenses which would not go away with a lapsed subscription, and then build in the ability in AME to output existing Premiere Pro Projects, and the ability in Bridge to view and maybe 'save as' other projects or file formats, so that even without the Adobe Subscription license, we would still have the ability to view and possibly output files for demos, simple client requests, etc.? While this would essentially close the door on software usage, it would give us enough leeway to at least view and transfer the assets we do own, and deserve to at least view, without paying the full freight?

Joe Bourke
Owner/Creative Director
Bourke Media
http://www.bourkemedia.com


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Tim Kolb
Re: Creative Cloud Q&A [Adobe guy]
on May 10, 2013 at 4:53:18 pm

[Mark Dobson] "Dan Carr has written a clear overview and analysis over on Pro Video Coalition.

http://provideocoalition.com/dcarr/story/adobe-moves-creative-suite-to-the-....
"




...and by the way, I think you may not have read the entire article. While Dan Carr does point out that a person who uses one software package and updates every 5 years will be paying more, and points out the concern of needing all that software...his conclusion includes the word "bargain".

TimK,
Director, Consultant
Kolb Productions,

Adobe Certified Instructor


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: Creative Cloud Q&A [Adobe guy]
on May 10, 2013 at 4:20:59 pm

$50 per month, you're looking at $600 per year assuming a) Adobe never offers a special and b) you don't already have some Adobe software that qualifies you for a discount. A suite to suite upgrade in video has typically cost around $599 for the last several releases,

Hi Dennis - I think you've actually got your sums wrong there - Production Premium upgrade was 350 dollars, not 599?

A very large number of customers are on production premium, for them adobe has removed ownership of the software, and effectively doubled the price into the bargain. It's a bit rough no?

this is where I begin to find this very like a bad cable plan, I'm being charged for channels/software I don't use, to justify the price tag adobe is looking for?

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Joseph W. Bourke
Re: Creative Cloud Q&A [Adobe guy]
on May 10, 2013 at 4:40:56 pm

Maybe, as Aindreas suggests, as a negative - the cable plan -Adobe could take a lesson from the cable plan, and have a tiered offering - you get four channels for 20 bucks a month - you get six channels for 30 bucks a month (prices are purely arbitrary), and you get the whole chapati for 50 bucks a month. It could be structured so that the user could pick and choose, or it could be structured similar to the current offering, web/design so much a month, Production Premium so much a month, whole chapatti so much a month.

I like the pick and choose method better, because there is no hard and fast rule in the design/web/television/multimedia world that limits what a company can and does do. I know people who do photography and web design - I know people who do animation and graphic design - you get it...

Joe Bourke
Owner/Creative Director
Bourke Media
http://www.bourkemedia.com


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Paul Neumann
Re: Creative Cloud Q&A [Adobe guy]
on May 10, 2013 at 6:45:18 pm

I've thought a lot about this very thing for years because of one Adobe product: InDesign. For years I've needed everything that was in Production Premium and I've needed InDesign. So I've been buying the Master Collection. That's the only way I could get all the tools I need. Don't need Dreamweaver, Fireworks, Flash, etc. But man, I've always wanted Lightroom. Not enough to buy it as a stand alone because I figured I'm already paying enough. Tough.

You'll need to re-think your plan there though. PPro, Ae, AME, Ps, En, Au, Ai, Sg....that's 7 apps just be a functioning operation. Now I need all that plus Id, Br and Acrobat. So if I had to pick 10 I reckon that would be it. And look at that, no Lr again. Damn.

Alright then, give it all to me and throw in all the other programs plus storage, prosite, behance, frequent and perpetual updates and any other program you release from now on.

Maybe I AM the reason.


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Juan Manuel
Re: Creative Cloud Q&A [Adobe guy]
on May 10, 2013 at 5:17:56 pm

I think this kind of business model eliminates one of Adobe greatest competitors from the table, that is, Adobe itself.

With the previous business model, an ongoing business would evaluate if the new CS version was worth purchasing. Otherwise, they'll just continue working with the previous, already paid for, version. Now, as of right now and for video users, each new version is usually worth purchasing, even if some individual applications aren't worth the upgrade (ie, Encore CS5 to CS6). But the new features in Photoshop, After Effects and Premiere certainly make it worth it, so everyone assumes an upgrade every time is worth paying.

Now, let's say we are two years down the road. A hypothetical company is invested in CC, work a lot with After Effects and have professionals very used to use the software. That year, let's say 2016, what kind of incentive Adobe has to improve After Effects as much as in the last years upgrades? If the company decides the new upgrades coming from the cloud aren't the big deal, they are already on board. Switching isn't easy: it requires new licences, professionals will have a learning curve, workflows probably need to change and a fair amount of experimentation is needed. Now, we could say this is the same situation as in nowadays. But right now, if an upgrade isn't worth the price, that company can decide not to buy it and Adobe losses a sale. Since Adobe wants the company to buy the new version, it's enticed to develop new features. With this model, Adobe is enticed to develop new features until there is a loyal enough, semi-captive, user base. Once they do, we could make the business case that relaxing and keeping costs down is better than expending money in improving.


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Jim Wiseman
Re: Creative Cloud Q&A [Adobe guy]
on May 10, 2013 at 5:53:05 pm

I suppose I will be categorized as one of those users who will never be satisfied by anything other than a perpetual license, but that is because it is essentially true. I want to own my work and my software. There is no denying that the subscription model will at some point make it very difficult and also expensive to return to early projects. Besides my paying work, I have a large collection of historical cultural footage from the Pacific Islands that I have shot over the last 20+ years. I am looking forward to editing and re-editing old projects (Media 100, still accessible almost 20 years later, no charge). I had considered using Premiere on some of the new projects, but this new model is a show stopper for me. It is not a highly commercial project with little cash flow. That plus the idea that these historic files will only be accessible by paid subscription make no sense for me to continue with Adobe other than using CS6 (because of it's multiple codec support) to review and select footage, color correct and legalize, and then export ProRes or perhaps DnxHD (don't really use Avid that much anymore) to one of my other NLE's for final, knowing I can go back for free, and the projects, not just exported finals, will be accessible.

BTW, I have these systems because I was the exclusive Avid dealer for Hawaii for most of the '90s and one of two Media 100 dealers here, installing many systems. I'm curious how my previous customers feel about this change and will be contacting them. If I have any question I would like to ask, I guess it would be how did Adobe think this model would actually be good for users? I have my doubts that once it is successful (if it can be) and people are locked in it will remove much of the need to improve the software. I know you will be rolling out a lot of new stuff to get people on board, I just don't see that continuing at this pace later. I don't really think you are allowed to forthrightly answer my question anyway, but that is it in a nutshell. How could anyone believe a subscription is better than ownership without at least a buyout option? Until there is a buyout or equivalent I just won't switch and will try to not rely on Adobe software. Thanks for at least giving the Forum access to an Adobe POV.

Jim Wiseman
Sony PMW-EX1,Pana AJ-D810 DVCPro, DVX-100, Nikon D7000, Final Cut Studio 2 and 3, Media 100 Suite 2.1, Premiere Pro 5.5 and 6.0, AJA ioHD, AJA Kona LHi, Avid MC, Hexacore MacPro 3.33 Ghz 24Gb RAM GTX-285 120GB SSD, Macbook Pro 17" 2011 2.2 Ghz Quadcore i7 8Gb SSD, G5 Quadcore PCIe


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Dave LaRonde
Re: Creative Cloud Q&A [Adobe guy]
on May 10, 2013 at 6:20:41 pm

Jim, your point about returning to an old project AND projects with little or no financial gain is similar to a Q & A that has been taking place on the After Effects forum.
Although there have been many Q's, very few A's have been forthcoming. I asked a couple of fundamental questions about how Adobe views its customer base. No response.

Since this seems to be a more appropriate venue, I'll engage in a little copy 'n paste action and place the entire post in this forum. Here goes:


[Steve Forde] "...What I will not do is subscribe to idle speculation, fear mongering or a general desire for scandal."

Frankly, I didn't even expect a response to my speculative remarks. I doubt that you possess a crystal ball, and it is the rare company official who speculates in public. I would be surprised to learn that the topic I raised had NOT been considered by Adobe, but speculation among coworkers on any topic remains both proprietary and private.



[Steve Forde] "...I will just simply say that we feel very strongly that what we are doing is the right move for both Adobe and our customers - end stop."

Very well. Then one of your customers has a couple of fundamental questions.

As a longtime AE user at my workplace, I sensed a difference in the markets Adobe sought to reach with the introduction of the Creative Suite. In a previous post in this thread I referred to it as "software for Everyman".

A one-man operation I know thinks of the Creative Suite's Production Premium variant as a post house in a box: software for Everyman. He has a day job, but he enjoys working with the software. He likes puttering with it. He makes a little money with it, enough to take the family out to dinner occasionally while saving up for future expenditures. However, he doesn't have time for the business volume that would justify every single upgrade. No upgrades, no money for Adobe.

A friend teaches Photoshop classes at the local community college. A surprising percentage of students there are all-business and no-nonsense: they want their degrees, they strive for good grades, and they want to get into the workplace ASAP. They also throw dimes around like manhole covers.

A few years ago, the school purchased Photoshop CS3 for its handful of classroom machines. Even with an academic discount, it was a budgetary stretch. You doubtlessly know more about Photoshop's universality than I do. I'd call it software for Everyman. A number of enterprising students purchased academic versions and used them at home for the classes. When done, they then unregistered the software and sold it to incoming students. This community college doesn't blaze technical Photoshop trails, it teaches basic skills every user should know cold for an entry-level job. Thus, the school still uses CS3 and outgoing students still sell the disks to the incoming ones. Again, no upgrades, no money for Adobe.

These are two different examples of the software for Everyman concept, and they're both small potatoes in Adobe's view, I imagine. Perhaps even insignificant. Since both represent only rare opportunities for Adobe to make income, they're arguments for a different revenue model such as a subscription system, however minor that argument may be in the grand scheme of things. But in both cases, the new subscription model is a new burden on the users.

The one-man shop who gets two or three post gigs a month now has to include the subscription cost into the overhead if he wants to stay current. Will he price himself out his already-tiny niche? Does he forego a night of family fun in favor of the subscription? Or does he say to himself, "Well, it was fun while it lasted," and just pack it in? The community college teaching Photoshop basics has to ask itself if it's really worth subscribing when it already owns software capable of the basics. But if it does subscribe, it's fruitless for the student on a ramen-noodle budget to buy that often-reused CS3 disk for ten bucks. Instead, s/he faces an additional monthly expenditure to work at home on a version of the application with features that probably won't even be covered in class.

Now, I told you these stories to preface these fundamental questions:
Is it truthful to say that Adobe has re-identified who its customers are... and who they are NOT?
Is my perception that Adobe's new subscription model reflects a migration from a "software for Everyman" concept to a "software for a more select clientele" concept even close to being accurate?

Your clarifying comments are welcome.

Dave LaRonde
Former Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Jim Wiseman
Re: Creative Cloud Q&A [Adobe guy]
on May 10, 2013 at 7:39:02 pm

@Dave LaRonde: Thanks for your re-post Dave. All of your questions seem quite relevant. Will be interesting to see if you get any answers. Will have to take a look over on the AE Forum.

Jim Wiseman
Sony PMW-EX1,Pana AJ-D810 DVCPro, DVX-100, Nikon D7000, Final Cut Studio 2 and 3, Media 100 Suite 2.1, Premiere Pro 5.5 and 6.0, AJA ioHD, AJA Kona LHi, Avid MC, Hexacore MacPro 3.33 Ghz 24Gb RAM GTX-285 120GB SSD, Macbook Pro 17" 2011 2.2 Ghz Quadcore i7 8Gb SSD, G5 Quadcore PCIe


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Tim Kolb
Re: Creative Cloud Q&A [Adobe guy]
on May 10, 2013 at 6:40:10 pm

[Jim Wiseman] "I have my doubts that once it is successful (if it can be) and people are locked in it will remove much of the need to improve the software. I know you will be rolling out a lot of new stuff to get people on board, I just don't see that continuing at this pace later."

That is an understandable fear.

I, for one, am hoping that some of the big flourish innovation will give way to refinement once Adobe doesn't have to worry about creating the next shiny object to garner yearly upgrades. Premiere Pro is a huge aggregate of features that could use some better integration in various areas...but none of that will drive yearly upgrades so resources seem to be prioritized to the more visual, "demo-friendly" kinds of things...

My own suspicion is that Adobe's competitors will be working on making transitions away from Adobe as easy as possible with file importers and converters, etc. to make it easier to come out of the cloud as that will be seen as a definite opportunity...so there is a chance that Adobe will be on the bubble as opposed to off the hook if their competitors play for keeps.

TimK,
Director, Consultant
Kolb Productions,

Adobe Certified Instructor


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Tim Dowse
Re: Creative Cloud Q&A [Adobe guy]
on May 10, 2013 at 7:44:28 pm

This is not a "question" for Adobe, just comments on other folks input in case you're still reading:

@Joseph W. Bourke
Would it not be possible (I know...I know...anything is possible) to make both AME and Bridge freestanding licenses which would not go away with a lapsed subscription, and then build in the ability in AME to output existing Premiere Pro Projects, and the ability in Bridge to view and maybe 'save as' other projects or file formats, so that even without the Adobe Subscription license, we would still have the ability to view and possibly output files for demos, simple client requests, etc.?

This is a great suggestion that would I think ameliorate fears at least a little.

I think the other option (which presumably is less favored for Adobe, but would surely take care of most (?) skeptics) is some kind of loyalty reward whereby, after let's say 5 years of continued subscription, you are free to cancel your payments, and keep the software that's current at that time. If you renew your subscription following some interval, you start a new five year cycle.

That would also deal with the issue of Adobe's lessening incentive to innovate - if they stop innovating, five-year loyalists stop subscribing. BUT at the same time, the requirement for a continued five-year subscription gives customers the incentive to keep paying, to keep their "loyalty" status intact. Win-win?

@ Tim Kolb
My own suspicion is that Adobe's competitors will be working on making transitions away from Adobe as easy as possible with file importers and converters, etc. to make it easier to come out of the cloud as that will be seen as a definite opportunity...so there is a chance that Adobe will be on the bubble as opposed to off the hook if their competitors play for keeps.

Completely agree with this point. This is surely something that will happen over time, and funnily enough, will make Adobe more attractive to those folks who are wary of being held "hostage."


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Frank Gothmann
Re: Creative Cloud Q&A [Adobe guy] - Question regarding multiple licences
on May 10, 2013 at 8:23:54 pm

Hi Dennis,

question regarding multiple licences. Say I want cloud x 2 or 3. There is the cloud for teams but it also says in the FAQ one could open a second Adobe ID.
Teams seems more suitable for managing and deploying a substantially larger number of licences so is the "2nd Adobe ID" option valid? No internal conflicts?

Tnx

------
"You also agree that you will not use these products for... the development, design, manufacture or production of nuclear, missiles, or chemical or biological weapons."
iTunes End User Licence Agreement


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Gary Bettan
Re: Creative Cloud Q&A [Adobe guy] - Question regarding multiple licences
on May 14, 2013 at 12:32:37 am

we put together a Creative Cloud for Teams FAQ
http://www.videoguys.com/Guide/E/Videoguys+Guide+to+Adobe+Creative+Cloud/0x...

What is the advantage of Adobe Creative Cloud for Teams?

If you require more than 5 seats of Adobe Creative Cloud, then Cloud for Teams is definitely the way to go. We offer a 5% discount on seats of 5 or more, and those discounts get even larger as you buy more seats!

Adobe Team Cloud makes managing your accounts much easier and you will be able to allocate your shared storage any way you like. If you have 5 users, that's 500GB of shared storage at your disposal! You can also control who in your organization gets access to the Cloud and the Adobe software at any given time. This ability to activate users allows you to stretch your Cloud resources across your organization as needed each step along the production process.

As an example, you could deactivate several of your Premiere Pro video editors or After Effects artists when the edit is done, and then activate your colorists to finish in Speedgrade or your publishing team using Encore. Even cooler, these folks do not have to be in the same building, city or even country. Cloud for Teams lets you control who has access to the software and the digital assets in the cloud.

Why does Videoguys recommend Creative Cloud for Teams for all our Professional Video customers?

Videoguys’ recommends Creative Cloud for Teams for all event videographers, independent film makers, and smaller groups deciding between Creative Cloud for Individuals or Team. Now that Adobe has lowered the cost of Creative Cloud for Teams down to $39.95 per month for a single user, the annual cost is just $479. That’s just $120 more per year for Teams over Individual which is a TREMENDOUS VALUE!

Individual includes 20GB of Cloud Storage vs. 100GB with Team
As a Professional Video user, you know that you can never have too much storage. The extra 80GB of cloud storage will come in handy. While it may not be practical to upload a 32GB card full of video, you can certainly upload images, audio, and short clips for review. We also see it as a great way to archive all your finished videos.

At NAB 2013 Adobe was showing their Cloud based enterprise level video editing application called Adobe Anywhere. I would expect Anywhere to become available to Team Cloud subscribers long before it migrates down to individual. I think down the road you will see additional features added just to Creative Cloud for Teams that will be very important for Pro Video.

Gary

COW members get 5% OFF with Coupon COW5OFF

http://www.videoguys.com 800 323-2325 | We are the video editing and production experts!


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James Culbertson
Re: Creative Cloud Q&A [Adobe guy]
on May 10, 2013 at 8:34:27 pm

Dennis, what are the educational team plan prices. I talked to an Adobe sales rep who said they were the same as the regular business team pricing at $40/month/computer (with a years subscription). Then I read elsewhere (from another Adobe employee) that this was not true and that there was a cheaper price for educational institutions. Can you post pricing or a web link? Thank you.


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Ryan Holmes
Re: Creative Cloud Q&A [Adobe guy]
on May 10, 2013 at 9:37:55 pm

[James Culbertson] "Dennis, what are the educational team plan prices."

James educational plan prices are $20/month for an individual or $40/month for a team plan - https://creative.adobe.com/plans

Hoping Adobe lowers these a little bit as edu markets are a historically cash strapped entity (or they offer a volume discount for large school installs).

Ryan Holmes
http://www.ryanholmes.me
@CutColorPost


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Joe Marler
Re: Creative Cloud Q&A [Adobe guy]
on May 10, 2013 at 11:57:16 pm

[Ryan Holmes]: "educational plan prices are $20/month for an individual or $40/month for a team plan"

The educational price after the first year is $29.99 per month. BTW, this is a 40% discount off the normal retail price to individuals, not a 60% discount as stated on the Adobe Membership Plans page: http://www.adobe.com/products/creativecloud/buying-guide.edu.html

Prior to CC, educators could get an approx. 70% discount, and similar with non-profits. They could use that software for years then purchase new software (no upgrade was available at those discounted rates).

With CC the educational/non-profit discount is less, but you get more for your money -- relative to upgrading the boxed version each year. The problem is most schools and non-profits didn't upgrade their software every year. Relative to a two-year upgrade cycle on the boxed product, CC costs schools and non-profits significantly more. For non-profits it's nearly double the price per month vs a two-year upgrade cycle. IOW the price went up the most for those who can least afford it, and who were using that software for public service.

E.g: CS6 Premiere Pro Production Premium List Price: $1,800
Price to schools and non-profits (very approx): $550
Price to "upgrade" each year: $550 ($45.83 per month) vs CC price: $30 per month (educational)
Price to "upgrade" every two years: ($22.92 per month) vs CC price: $30 per month (educational)


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Chris Jacek
Re: Creative Cloud Q&A [Adobe guy]
on May 11, 2013 at 10:55:16 am

[Joe Marler] "Prior to CC, educators could get an approx. 70% discount, and similar with non-profits. They could use that software for years then purchase new software (no upgrade was available at those discounted rates)."

This is not even 100% true. As an educational institution you could purchase a CLP license, and a maintenance contract, which would give you upgrades to all new releases of the package. For example, my insitution bought 15 licenses for Production Premium for about $400 a seat. Then we paid only $75 a year for the maintenance license, which kept us current for all new releases.

So for us, who have already made the investment in our perpetual license, it was only $6.25 a month for each seat to stay current with every new release of Production Premium. This is exactly the kind of heavy educational discount needed for a budget-strapped small department like mine. I can budget $75 a year. But now Adobe is trying to tell me that $480 ($40 a month for "Teams" x 12) a year is a bargain. Even the introductory rate of $20 a month is over triple the cost that we had under our maintenance contract.

Adobe can blather on all day about how this is better because the initial investment is smaller. What good is that for my department, which has already made a significant (for the educational market) investment? To me, this is one of the most difficult things to swallow about Adobe's decision. It literally punishes an existing loyal customer base.

Professor, Producer, Editor
and former Apple Employee


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Joe Marler
Re: Creative Cloud Q&A [Adobe guy]
on May 11, 2013 at 4:28:44 pm

[Chris Jacek] "So for us, who have already made the investment in our perpetual license, it was only $6.25 a month for each seat to stay current with every new release of Production Premium. This is exactly the kind of heavy educational discount needed for a budget-strapped small department like mine. I can budget $75 a year. But now Adobe is trying to tell me that $480 ($40 a month for "Teams" x 12) a year is a bargain. Even the introductory rate of $20 a month is over triple the cost that we had under our maintenance contract"

Thanks for that correction. This underscores that educational and non-profit entities will be the hardest hit by the CC price increase.

I fully expect that much of Adobe's lower customer tier will migrate to other software, such as Sony Vegas Pro, etc. This will create a stratification in the market. Students who previously were "raised" on Adobe products and took that product (hence purchasing) orientation with them to the workforce will now be raised on competing products.

Likely even now as we discuss this, IT people at many of these institutions have already begun focused technical assessment of alternative products -- driven specifically by the huge Adobe CC price increase to educational and non-profit entities.


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David Mathis
Re: Creative Cloud Q&A [Adobe guy]
on May 10, 2013 at 8:34:24 pm

Dennis:

Thank you for this for this question and answer session and allowing us to give feedback or ask questions.

I have two quick questions to ask:

1. Is there any possibility that Adobe would consider a buy-out option at a certain point in the cloud subscription?

2. Would it be possible for Adobe to consider a perpetual license from the start but at a higher price to offset the cost of people not wanting to go to with the Creative Cloud option?

Again, thank you for answering our questions and addressing our concerns.


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Roland R. Kahlenberg
Re: Creative Cloud Q&A [Adobe guy]
on May 11, 2013 at 8:49:47 am

Make your pre-CC apps work as advertised BEFORE you sell your newer stuff!!!

Bestest!
RoRK

Intensive mocha & AE Training in Singapore and Other Dangerous Locations

Imagineer Systems (mocha) Certified Instructor
& Adobe After Effects CS6 ACE


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marcus lyall
Re: Creative Cloud Q&A [Adobe guy]
on May 11, 2013 at 10:53:46 am

Production Premium CC is what we need here. And Web Premium CC. And Print Designer CC.

I do film and video work. So I need AFX and Premiere.
I do some graphics and layout. So I need Photoshop, Illustrator and Indesign. But much less.
I don't need sound software. That's another field.
I really don't need Dreamweaver. Or Flash. That's another field.

To learn how to do sound and web design are other lifetimes of learning and working to get near a level where I would be happy to charge someone for my work. I don't want to pay for licenses of Dreamweaver or even have them on my workstations. I don't want to build a website or design an iPad app. I wouldn't want to insult the abilities of my online brethren by pretending I could match their level of knowledge or experience.

The whole cloud idea promotes this Apple-invented idea of designer dilletant-ism, whereby anyone who owns a piece of software instantly becomes an editor, web designer, etc. Or in the Cloud's case, all of the above simultaneously. Using Garageband does not make you a musician who can support themselves.
Maybe you'll suddenly record a hit album one evening, just by chance! Your creativity just flooded out!
Or maybe you use it for a few days and go back to watching your Homeland box set. But hey, the dream is nice..


Here is your sales pitch on your website.


Congrats. You're head of promotions, too.

You've made the final edit, and now it's time to build buzz. Design a poster. Build a website. Create an iPad app. Whatever you need to promote your project, it's here in Creative Cloud.



This is deeply patronising to the people who acquire deep knowledge of their chosen creative field. Have a look at some successful individual portfolios of work. Do they contain a mixture of sound work, editing, photoshop, layout, web design and apps?

If I've just made my final edit, I want to go and do another great edit. Not design a poster.
I'll get my friend to do that, because she's really good at designing posters. Did a degree that specialised in it. Did it for another 5 years for low pay at a film poster design company. Because that was her passion. Finally understood what made a good poster work. Not something I casually knock out one evening n my laptop.

The people who actually get to express themselves creatively are the people who decide they are an illustrator, photographer, designer, editor, director or hybrid. Not software generalists. There simply isn't enough time in a lifetime to learn how to do these things well.

I employ creative freelancers. The people with the folios that show me they can deliver something amazing in the field I work in. Specialists. People who, for instance, have used After Effects every day for the last 5 years. Sure, they need to use Photoshop and Illustrator. Maybe Indesign. But Dreamweaver?
On their workstations, (which I pay for), I want just the tools that they need to use.

I get media convergence. But look at that Homeland box set again. Was the cover designed by an editor?
Did a graphic designer edit it?

Get it?



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Joseph W. Bourke
Re: Creative Cloud Q&A [Adobe guy]
on May 11, 2013 at 12:55:22 pm

Yeah...that was pretty patronizing - but marketing types generally don't have the foggiest understanding of creative types, so I can see where they'd miss the mark completely. In my line of work I might be called upon to do all of the above, but it's generally separate projects. I certainly don't do motion graphics for a project, then create a poster to promote it...

Joe Bourke
Owner/Creative Director
Bourke Media
http://www.bourkemedia.com


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Tim Vaughan
Re: Creative Cloud Q&A [Adobe guy]
on May 11, 2013 at 4:03:41 pm

And, what's even worse (or absolutely funny depending on which way you're looking at it), they're trying to sell us the spin that most of us a involved with in our daily jobs. Face it, we work in a marketing type environment, where we get the behind the scenes look at how commercials and marketing are done. I can't begin to tell you how many marketing agencies and scriptwriters I've worked with over the years, whose very job is to apply buzzwords and graphics and subtle messages to convince the end consumers the product being advertised is what they, the consumer absolutely must have.
So forgive me if I'm not buying all in to the marketing campaigns and overall spin about how this will be the best thing for me since sliced bread. I'm--we're all a little too jaded and have conditioned ourselves mainly to consider the cause and effect, especially in the long run.

Tim
Apple XRAID, XServe, 2008 2x3 GHz Quad-Core MacPro, Macbook Pro, XSAN, Dell Studio xps PC's
FCP Studio (7), AVID Media Composer, Adobe Production Premium, Maxon Cinema 4d, AJA Kona 3, Flanders Scientific Monitors, Panasonic HPX250's, Kessler Crane, Glidecam.....
Beer fridge fully loaded.


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Herb Sevush
Re: Creative Cloud Q&A [Adobe guy]
on May 11, 2013 at 5:21:14 pm

First of all Dennis I appreciate you coming on this forum and inviting the hail of bullets coming your way.

I don't think there is that much dis-information on the CC situation now that a few days have gone and I realize that you can't answer the only real question that most folks really have - which is the possibility of making various changes to the licensing program as it now stands. On that subject it's best to follow the wisdom of Lao Tse - "He who knows, does not speak; he who speaks does not know."

The rhetorical question I would like to ask, that I know you cannot and will not answer, is what the heck corporate Adobe was thinking when they timed this announcement? Where they oblivious to the FCPX rollout when they decided to first sneak a look at the improvements and innovations to PPro and then after whetting everyone's appetite announce the immediate and sudden change in distribution? I mean really, just how stupid was that? Couldn't they predict this over-reaction was going to be the reaction when they had an exact example of this just 2 years ago. Any fool could have told them that anything other than a slow fazed in change was going to create this disturbance that is definitively throwing out all the goodwill you guys have built up in the pro video community in the past few years, so I guess my unanswerable question is just what kind of fools is corporate Adobe staffed with?

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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Morten Ranmar
Re: Creative Cloud Q&A [Adobe guy]
on May 12, 2013 at 2:34:16 pm

Hi Dennis. I purchased a 2 year subscription plan for After Effects updates when CS6 came out.
So normally I would get the next version included in that - but now I have to pay up again?

- No Parking Production -

2 x Finalcut Studio3, 2 x Prod. bundle CS6, 2 x MacPro, 2 x ioHD, Ethernet File Server w. X-Raid.... and FCPX on trial


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Richard Herd
Re: Creative Cloud Q&A [Adobe guy]
on May 12, 2013 at 11:42:35 pm

For my freelance work CC is great.

For my teaching, CC places an expense on my school. While the National Association of Career and Technical Educators (NACTE) need Adobe, Perkins funding is being slashed by the sequester specifically and other funding streams are drying up for art programs but showing up for technology programs.

Can you via Adobe please please please take a leading role in persuading congress to find CTE.

Thanks!
I love the cloud. My high school students are excited that
They too can freelance and learn the art on their own by both paying such low monthly rates at adobe and learning from tuts on the Cow.

Moo,
Rich Herd


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Oliver Peters
Re: Creative Cloud Q&A [Adobe guy]
on May 13, 2013 at 11:55:39 am

If you picked up CS6 as part of last year's CC subscription, can you now convert that to a perpetual license for CS6? If so, is there a conversion or "crossgrade" price for Production Premium or the Master Collection or individual apps?

Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Gary Bettan
Re: Creative Cloud Q&A [Adobe guy]
on May 14, 2013 at 12:37:25 am

Thanx for jumping in here Dennis. Lots of inaccurate info floating about. Your straight answers are greatly appreciated.

We posted an FAQ about Creative Cloud for Teams
http://www.videoguys.com/Guide/E/Videoguys+Guide+to+Adobe+Creative+Cloud/0x...

It's info we've gotten from Adobe plus some of our own advise for our customers.

Gary
Videoguys.com

COW members get 5% OFF with Coupon COW5OFF

http://www.videoguys.com 800 323-2325 | We are the video editing and production experts!


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Jan Janowski
Re: Creative Cloud Q&A [Adobe guy]
on May 16, 2013 at 10:57:05 am

The reason why I'm not going CC is somewhat different.
I have purchased my software.... More than once.....

Though I work "In the Industry" I'm a Hobbyist at home.

I am NOT AT ALL interested in another Monthy Bill.... And since I have already purchased my software multiple times.... The thought of now purchasing it Monthly, for a hobby? No! That won't fly!

So my option is as follows:

Pay up monthly.... Or stay where I am with CS6, and not incur any further bills.

I've chosen the latter: I'll stay with CS6, and not incur any new monthly bills.

I'm afraid that you will lose many hobbyists over this...

Looking for 1939 Indian Motocycle


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