FORUMS: list search recent posts

Adobe expands Photoshop and Lightroom offer till 2 dec.

COW Forums : Adobe Creative Cloud Debate

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
Florian Sepp
Adobe expands Photoshop and Lightroom offer till 2 dec.
on Nov 26, 2013 at 8:05:12 am

FYI

"When Adobe announced a version of Creative Cloud for photographers in September, there was a catch -- you had to already own Photoshop CS3 or later to qualify for the special pricing.

Now Adobe is lifting that requirement for a limited time. Through December 2, 2013, the $9.99 (£8.78/€12,29) per month subscription is available to everyone. "


http://www.dpreview.com/news/2013/11/21/adobe-now-offers-photoshop-and-ligh...

best regards
Florian

Florian Sepp visual arts
http://www.floriansepp.com


Return to posts index

Rainer Schubert
Re: Adobe expands Photoshop and Lightroom offer till 2 dec.
on Nov 26, 2013 at 4:22:04 pm
Last Edited By Rainer Schubert on Nov 26, 2013 at 4:23:28 pm

Same Game as in September...
They have to tell Wall Street (next business report = in Dec.) how successful dark clouds are.
Can buy a three yrs membership for Team Cloud here in Germany for half the price... (till 2nd Dec.)
They are trying the hell to reach their targets and meanwhile I think they get away with their slavery concept.
Doesn´t matter if it´s against the will of most customers and also if they loose half of them.

Blue Sky, No clouds - that´s mine.


Return to posts index

Gary Huff
Re: Adobe expands Photoshop and Lightroom offer till 2 dec.
on Nov 26, 2013 at 4:26:08 pm

[Rainer Schubert] "They are trying the hell to reach their targets and meanwhile I think they get away with their slavery concept."

Please, stop with your callous disregard for human suffering by comparing this to "slavery". It's insulting and makes you look extremely petty.

Why don't you just also compare Adobe to Hitler and Creative Cloud to the Holocaust while you're at it?


Return to posts index


Rainer Schubert
Re: Adobe expands Photoshop and Lightroom offer till 2 dec.
on Nov 26, 2013 at 4:37:50 pm

Will stop that in future, but how would you name that? What is the right/alternative description?
How do I have to call a company, who tries to bind their (23 years in my case) customers to their file-formats?
Trying to bind them to a distribution model, that doesn´t allow to stop this cloud nonsense without loosing all your (clients) files?
Paying for years to use the archive you created yourself...?
I´m no native speaker. Here in Germany the use of the term "slavery" isn´t seen as "petty" as it may be seen in the States. Really Sorry for that.
BtW: Some links to YouTube in this discussion did already compare Adobe to...


Return to posts index

Gary Huff
Re: Adobe expands Photoshop and Lightroom offer till 2 dec.
on Nov 26, 2013 at 9:27:50 pm

[Rainer Schubert] "BtW: Some links to YouTube in this discussion did already compare Adobe to..."

I don't care what's on YouTube...it's not exactly a bastion of intellectual discourse.


Return to posts index

Ridley Walker
Re: Adobe expands Photoshop and Lightroom offer till 2 dec.
on Nov 26, 2013 at 6:41:36 pm

[Gary Huff] "Please, stop with your callous disregard for human suffering by comparing this to "slavery". It's insulting and makes you look extremely petty. Why don't you just also compare Adobe to Hitler and Creative Cloud to the Holocaust while you're at it?"

Ouch. Metaphors and similes.

Is it like the enslavement of the African Americans, is Adobe actively kidnapping and enslaving users? I think not. We do have a choice, we can refuse to be shackled to a software subscription. Slavery takes many forms and the term has many shades of meaning.

Ever heard the term 'wage slave', etc?

I think Rainer needs to be cut some slack here, while his choice of words is not appropriate, its clear he meant no offence.


Return to posts index


Gary Huff
Re: Adobe expands Photoshop and Lightroom offer till 2 dec.
on Nov 26, 2013 at 9:29:18 pm

[Ridley Walker] "
I think Rainer needs to be cut some slack here, while his choice of words is not appropriate, its clear he meant no offence."


I agree that I don't think he was intentionally trying to offend, but, frankly, using this extreme hyperbolic language doesn't help anything. How can you expect to have a proper discussion on the pros and cons of the new model if it's going to degenerate into terrible comparisons?


Return to posts index

Chris Pettit
Re: Adobe expands Photoshop and Lightroom offer till 2 dec.
on Nov 26, 2013 at 11:07:53 pm

[Gary Huff] "frankly, using this extreme hyperbolic language doesn't help anything. "

[Gary Huff] "...your callous disregard for human suffering..."


Return to posts index

Gary Huff
Re: Adobe expands Photoshop and Lightroom offer till 2 dec.
on Nov 27, 2013 at 12:12:46 am
Last Edited By Gary Huff on Nov 27, 2013 at 12:13:31 am

Yes, except the difference is a) This forum is not a discussion about whether or not it's appropriate to toss around slavery as a term to describe a business model you're not a fan of.

And b) actual slavery still happens, and so my comment still stands. To toss around the term so easily in reference to Adobe Creative Cloud is callous to the actual situation that certain members of human society have unfortunately found themselves in.

Though I realize since I disagree with your position, you delight in any way to knock me down a few notches, as if that somehow validates your opinion on the subject. Even if I was completely two-faced, it has nothing to do with whether or not Creative Cloud is the right option for someone.


Return to posts index


Ridley Walker
Re: Adobe expands Photoshop and Lightroom offer till 2 dec.
on Nov 27, 2013 at 4:07:54 am

[Gary Huff] "Yes, except the difference is a) This forum is not a discussion about whether or not it's appropriate to toss around slavery as a term to describe a business model you're not a fan of."

Gee Gary, what are the rules then of this debate since you seem intent on setting and policing it?


Return to posts index

Chris Pettit
Re: Adobe expands Photoshop and Lightroom offer till 2 dec.
on Nov 27, 2013 at 4:10:09 am

[Gary Huff] "Though I realize since I disagree with your position, you delight in any way to knock me down a few notches, as if that somehow validates your opinion on the subject. "

I often disagree with Walter Soyka as well. And yet somehow I've managed to avoid "validating my opinions" by "knocking Walter down a few notches". (frankly that would be hard to do with his knowledge base!!)

The discussion has always been respectful with Walter and most others who advocate for Adobe CC. As to why the discussion always descends into vitriol and ugliness with you is a mystery to me. Rainer was simply making a point about subscriptions and the never ending obligations that it represents, regardless of poorly chosen words to describe it.

Why you chose to slam him is known only to you. I will remind you that some of our brethren are also jugging language barriers as well.

We all have strong opinions regarding Adobe mandatory CC. No one is free from criticism for overheated rhetoric, myself included.

But I would respectfully suggest that something we should all be careful of is hypocrisy.


Return to posts index

Gary Huff
Re: Adobe expands Photoshop and Lightroom offer till 2 dec.
on Nov 27, 2013 at 6:37:26 am

[Chris Pettit] "I often disagree with Walter Soyka as well. And yet somehow I've managed to avoid "validating my opinions" by "knocking Walter down a few notches". (frankly that would be hard to do with his knowledge base!!)"

I would assume that's because you dislike my rather blunt way of responding. Which is fine, but you don't need to try to point out some inconsistency because it comes across that you feel that somehow making me look bad makes your opinions stand out as "winners", which they don't.

[Chris Pettit] "As to why the discussion always descends into vitriol and ugliness with you is a mystery to me."

What vitriol and ugliness are you referring to explicitly? That I use words like "ludicrous"? Perhaps you shouldn't be so thin-skinned. If you say something that I think has no merit, I will point it out. If you most respond with anything else than a reasoned rebuttal, then perhaps the vitriol and ugliness is more on you?


[Chris Pettit] "
Why you chose to slam him is known only to you. I will remind you that some of our brethren are also jugging language barriers as well."


Language barriers excuse typos and strange phrases, not referring to Creative Cloud as slavery. Again, is there a line with you? Perhaps you'd like to use the "Creative Cloud is nothing more than the Holocaust committed against creatives" line? Would that be out of order to resort to that? If not, why is the slavery comparison any better? (though I realize at this point you simply will not respond to the point, and instead wait for some future thread in which to bring out the guns again).


Return to posts index


Gary Huff
Re: Adobe expands Photoshop and Lightroom offer till 2 dec.
on Nov 27, 2013 at 7:13:48 am

Upon further reflection, I will agree that the word "callous" was too strong, since it implies a clear knowledge of the demeaning comparison between a human tragedy and the licensing model for a software platform. I don't believe that was the case.

"Flippant disregard" seems like a better way of putting it.


Return to posts index

Rainer Schubert
Re: Adobe expands Photoshop and Lightroom offer till 2 dec.
on Nov 27, 2013 at 12:47:49 pm
Last Edited By Rainer Schubert on Nov 27, 2013 at 12:52:43 pm

Hey Gary
I thought I excused for this term. Also said, I will not use this comparison here in future.
This term is used here in Germany not seldom and also not weighted as in US, it seems.
(It´s taken for low payed workers for example in many cases without any complaint. Not compareable to holocaust or else)
I don´t want to discus, wether human discussion has to be perfect - the discussion here is about the Cloud.
I think especially in the web, but in nearby every human conversation, discussions have a little bit of the "Color" of the people who are discussing.
Also your statements here have "Color", when I have a look back.
So please take my excuse. I didn´t want to do anyone a harm.
And yes, the term wasn´t right choosen.
OK?


Return to posts index

Gary Huff
Re: Adobe expands Photoshop and Lightroom offer till 2 dec.
on Nov 27, 2013 at 2:37:47 pm

Hey Rainer, I'm not really harping on you any more, I have totally moved on past that, so please don't feel like any further reference to the use of it in the discussion in any reflects an ongoing beef I have with you. I was simply using it as reference for those who might feel that I am out of line for calling out the comparison now.


Return to posts index


Chris Pettit
Re: Adobe expands Photoshop and Lightroom offer till 2 dec.
on Nov 27, 2013 at 1:09:20 pm

Gary:

In light of early morning reflection, I really shouldn't spend so much time highlighting other peoples choice of words. It's just who you are and how you choose to express yourself, none of my business I guess.

Rainer is right, this is supposed to be about CC. I apologize for letting the discussion get off track.

Happy Thanksgiving, to whom it applies!


Return to posts index

Ricardo Marty
Re: Adobe expands Photoshop and Lightroom offer till 2 dec.
on Nov 27, 2013 at 4:20:20 pm

The adobe way is more of an indentured service. See definition


Web definitions
Indentured servitude was a form of debt bondage, established in the early years of the American colonies and elsewhere. It was most used as a way for poor teenagers in Britain and the German states to get free passage to the American colonies. ...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indentured_service


Return to posts index

Walter Soyka
Re: Adobe expands Photoshop and Lightroom offer till 2 dec.
on Nov 27, 2013 at 4:43:31 pm

[Ricardo Marty] "The adobe way is more of an indentured service. See definition Web definitions Indentured servitude was a form of debt bondage, established in the early years of the American colonies and elsewhere. It was most used as a way for poor teenagers in Britain and the German states to get free passage to the American colonies. ..."

How? Indentured servitude and debt bondage are the pledge of future labor as repayment of a debt. Using CC does not bind you to work for Adobe in the future in any way.

I know it's rhetoric, but I think a lot of the analogies here are not only inflammatory by connotation, but also simply technically inaccurate by denotation. Creative Cloud is not slavery or indentured servitude or share cropping or rentier capitalism as it has been called here.

Creative Cloud is most accurately called a subscription, plain and simple, wherein you pay for access to a product or service for a specific period of time. When that specified period of time is over, neither party owes the other anything more.

I know that some here have philosophical objections to this model, but I think as long as someone understands the pros and cons of the offering, Creative Cloud can be a very reasonable and practical decision.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


Return to posts index

Dave LaRonde
Re: Adobe expands Photoshop and Lightroom offer till 2 dec.
on Nov 27, 2013 at 7:19:51 pm

I agree with your trouble over the indentured servitude thing, Walter.

I'd rather compare it to a dope dealer who gives out free samples. Once you're hooked, he's got you as a steady, albeit unhappy, customer.

Dave LaRonde
Promotion Producer
KGAN (CBS) & KFXA (Fox) Cedar Rapids, IA


Return to posts index

Walter Soyka
Re: Adobe expands Photoshop and Lightroom offer till 2 dec.
on Nov 27, 2013 at 7:34:57 pm

Well-played, Dave! Of course, a good number of us are willing, steady and relatively happy customers after CC, just as we were before. And I still feel that I can move away from Adobe products in the future if I choose to.

Honestly, I'm more troubled by Apple's efforts at lock-in than I am by Adobe's.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


Return to posts index

Rainer Schubert
Re: Adobe expands Photoshop and Lightroom offer till 2 dec.
on Nov 27, 2013 at 7:49:43 pm

I (really) don´t know only one "Adobe" user who is lucky with the CashCow as distribution model. And I know lots of users.
I only know CC users, who subscribed, because they must/had no other possibility.
Yes, there are some, who like some new features - but no one, absolutely no one I know, is happy about the distribution.
Also the image of "Adobe" changed from serious to something negative and "one has to handle with care".
Not so many years ago there was no doubt about the respectability.


Return to posts index

Walter Soyka
Re: Adobe expands Photoshop and Lightroom offer till 2 dec.
on Nov 27, 2013 at 7:48:26 pm

Also to your point, Dave, I think it's important that people understand the pros and cons of CC when they sign up. I think subscription is ok when you know what you're getting into, but it's so different from the perpetual model that someone who isn't aware of the difference could certainly be unpleasantly surprised.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


Return to posts index

Gary Huff
Re: Adobe expands Photoshop and Lightroom offer till 2 dec.
on Nov 27, 2013 at 8:35:16 pm

[Dave LaRonde] "I'd rather compare it to a dope dealer who gives out free samples. Once you're hooked, he's got you as a steady, albeit unhappy, customer."

Terrible analogy as well. Premiere isn't "addictive". I can, and do, stop using it from time to time to work in, say FCPX.


Return to posts index

David Mathis
Re: Adobe expands Photoshop and Lightroom offer till 2 dec.
on Nov 27, 2013 at 9:42:00 pm

I am going to take a chance here and use a car dealer as an analogy. Most car places will give you the option to make a purchase or lease car. There are many factors to consider between choosing a lease or purchase. Both have their advantages and disadvantages. In same cases the lease model is more ideal but in another situation a purchase would be the best option. Adobe used to have a purchase or lease option but have chosen to go the rental only model.

This is their business model. For me having an option between renting or making a purchase gives me an choice. In some cases I might choose to rent other times I would rather make a purchase. Adobe only offers the rent option. Nothing wrong with this really. Just understand this is a business model. I have now come to a rational thought process.

There is always a chance Adobe might change their mind.


Return to posts index

Gary Huff
Re: Adobe expands Photoshop and Lightroom offer till 2 dec.
on Nov 27, 2013 at 10:00:12 pm

[David Mathis] "I am going to take a chance here and use a car dealer as an analogy. Most car places will give you the option to make a purchase or lease car. There are many factors to consider between choosing a lease or purchase. Both have their advantages and disadvantages. In same cases the lease model is more ideal but in another situation a purchase would be the best option. Adobe used to have a purchase or lease option but have chosen to go the rental only model."

There's not much of a chance in using the car dealer analogy, mostly because it's not really inflammatory towards Adobe, so those who are prone to using analogies wouldn't bother. Much more incendiary to compare it to drugs and slavery and thus win hearts and minds for something or another.


Return to posts index

Steve Connor
Re: Adobe expands Photoshop and Lightroom offer till 2 dec.
on Nov 27, 2013 at 10:53:46 pm

I'm betting that someone is going to get a Xmas card from Adobe this year

Steve Connor

There's nothing we can't argue about on the FCPX COW Forum


Return to posts index

Dave LaRonde
Re: Adobe expands Photoshop and Lightroom offer till 2 dec.
on Nov 27, 2013 at 11:35:05 pm

[Steve Connor] "I'm betting that someone is going to get a Xmas card from Adobe this year"

That's worth a snicker!

Dave LaRonde
Promotion Producer
KGAN (CBS) & KFXA (Fox) Cedar Rapids, IA


Return to posts index

Dave LaRonde
Re: Adobe expands Photoshop and Lightroom offer till 2 dec.
on Nov 27, 2013 at 10:04:19 pm
Last Edited By Dave LaRonde on Nov 28, 2013 at 12:26:05 am

[Gary Huff] "Terrible analogy as well. Premiere isn't "addictive". I can, and do, stop using it from time to time to work in, say FCPX."

Dude, do you ENJOY being a grump?

Besides, try walking away from After Effects, Photoshop or Illustrator. It's not too tough to do with one of the editing applications: you have decent alternatives.

Dave LaRonde
Promotion Producer
KGAN (CBS) & KFXA (Fox) Cedar Rapids, IA


Return to posts index

Gary Huff
Re: Adobe expands Photoshop and Lightroom offer till 2 dec.
on Nov 28, 2013 at 2:10:41 am

[Dave LaRonde] "Dude, do you ENJOY being a grump?"

I guess "grump" meaning that I don't agree with you?


Return to posts index

Dave LaRonde
Re: Adobe expands Photoshop and Lightroom offer till 2 dec.
on Nov 30, 2013 at 9:53:52 pm
Last Edited By Dave LaRonde on Nov 30, 2013 at 10:52:11 pm

Let's define "being a grump" by a different phrase: "an individual who splits hairs over the language used in order to make an irrelevant point".

Better?

I would imagine you use Premiere a lot. However, there are alternatives that would do the job: Avid & FCP come to mind right away. And they hurt the wallet about as much; within a few hundred dollars of one another. Each has its strengths & weaknesses. Oh, it might take longer to accomplish certain tasks using one as compared to another, but that's about it.

Now, let's discuss a few of the other applications that come with Creative Cloud, which are also part of a good editor's arsenal: Photoshop, Illustrator and After Effects. Are there good alternatives to them? Do you know of alternative applications that can do the same jobs as them? Alternatives that won't break the bank for most individuals? No? How about that.

Under the Creative Cloud rental model, would one not become more and more reliant upon these three applications as one does more work using them... not unlike becoming reliant upon a drug? The features and program files used or created with them become non-functional if payment is stopped. Does this not create a need for them, paid on a regular basis? And does this relationship between software supplier and software user not bear a remarkable resemblance to the relationship between drug dealer and drug user?

Is that a bit clearer now?

And isn't my dope dealer analogy just another way of reiterating Aindreas Gallagher's point about a medieval economic model of the master renting tools to those beneath him in the social order?

Dave LaRonde
Promotion Producer
KGAN (CBS) & KFXA (Fox) Cedar Rapids, IA


Return to posts index

Gary Huff
Re: Adobe expands Photoshop and Lightroom offer till 2 dec.
on Dec 1, 2013 at 5:11:51 am

[Dave LaRonde] "Let's define "being a grump" by a different phrase: "an individual who splits hairs over the language used in order to make an irrelevant point"."

Still not very accurate. It's more like "someone who points out that your poor analogy is poor." I am not "splitting hairs" over language. You are making analogies. I am saying your analogy is hyperbolic and doesn't fit the situation and you take umbrage with that. Nothing more. My point is relevant because you end up looking someone who simply has an axe to grind when you make these kinds of analogies that are laughably absurd.

[Dave LaRonde] "I would imagine you use Premiere a lot. However, there are alternatives that would do the job: Avid & FCP come to mind right away."

Actually, for a while I was using FCPX a ton, but at the moment I am working on a show that is being handed off to other editors for finishing.

Other editors who are on Premiere CC.

For the full $50 a month.

[Dave LaRonde] "Now, let's discuss a few of the other applications that come with Creative Cloud, which are also part of a good editor's arsenal: Photoshop, Illustrator and After Effects. Are there good alternatives to them?"

Yes, Pixelmator, iDraw, Motion.

[Dave LaRonde] " Do you know of alternative applications that can do the same jobs as them? Alternatives that won't break the bank for most individuals? No? How about that."

So? Whose fault is that? It's the fault of someone who decided that since those three programs were already doing a good job, why try to compete? I fail to see what you are insinuating here. It also doesn't fit with your drug dealer analogy ("Has anyone made a drug as addictive as crack cocaine? No? How about that." - see? doesn't work).

[Dave LaRonde] "Under the Creative Cloud rental model, would one not become more and more reliant upon these three applications as one does more work using them... not unlike becoming reliant upon a drug?"

You are trying really hard to make this work, and it simply isn't.

[Dave LaRonde] "The features and program files used or created with them become non-functional if payment is stopped."

Yeah, you can't open .PROJ or .AEP files in other software, but you can export .XML. Not ideal, but can happen in a pinch. Illustrator you can export to PDF and Photoshop can be opened by others. So still not sure what your ultimate point is.

[Dave LaRonde] "Does this not create a need for them, paid on a regular basis?"

Depends on how often you need it. You could pay $70 a month and stop any time without penalty. $30 just for a single month. And if you start to bring up the price, then it's just a matter of price. However, the ultimate fact is that the "need" is variable depending on the user. I do rarely have a need to re-animate a project, and if I do, it's mostly for personal reasons (going back to spruce up something that still has potential for a demo reel).

As has also been pointed out before, what about those older project on, say, Final Cut Pro 3? To reconstitute that, you would need to open it in Final Cut Pro 4, then 5, then 7. Hope you can still open those previous versions. It's not always a given in the first place, even with licensed software.

But the crux of this argument is paying on a continual monthly basis, which is legit. But then you go off the deep end with:

[Dave LaRonde] "And does this relationship between software supplier and software user not bear a remarkable resemblance to the relationship between drug dealer and drug user?"

No, it does not. Only that you smile to yourself, pump your fist in the air, and exclaim, "I got you, Adobe!" only you look foolish.

[Dave LaRonde] "And isn't my dope dealer analogy just another way of reiterating Aindreas Gallagher's point about a medieval economic model of the master renting tools to those beneath him in the social order?"

As Walter Soyka pointed out, his analogy wasn't good either.


Return to posts index

Rainer Schubert
Re: Adobe expands Photoshop and Lightroom offer till 2 dec.
on Dec 1, 2013 at 7:42:25 pm
Last Edited By Rainer Schubert on Dec 1, 2013 at 8:17:11 pm

[Gary Huff] "[Dave LaRonde] "Now, let's discuss a few of the other applications that come with Creative Cloud, which are also part of a good editor's arsenal: Photoshop, Illustrator and After Effects. Are there good alternatives to them?"

Yes, Pixelmator, iDraw, Motion."


Wether the Pixelmator to PS nor iDraw to illustrator comparison is valid.
Pixelmator doesn´t have the CMYK support as PS has (What is absolutely a fundamental lack & a deal-breaker)
3D Functions and many other Std. Features missing also.
iDraw has not 50% of Complexity as Illustrator.
Is on it´s way & very fast and userfriendly to use.
But also no CMYK (as far as I know), which is a necessity for professional Artist (print)

AE & Motion can be compared, but with low success (as they are really different and both have their advantages and disadvantages).
I think, it´s hard to find a/the conclusion. And the question, which one is better to use, belongs to the projects.

[Gary Huff] "[Dave LaRonde] "The features and program files used or created with them become non-functional if payment is stopped."

Yeah, you can't open .PROJ or .AEP files in other software, but you can export .XML. Not ideal, but can happen in a pinch. Illustrator you can export to PDF and Photoshop can be opened by others. So still not sure what your ultimate point is."


May be you will be satisfied with XML export of PREM, AE (For me it´s absolutely not).
But please don´t tell me (mostly an Print Designer) an PDF (converted from Illustrator) is a working thing for a print professional.
Ever edited text line by line or word by word? I think.....
[Gary Huff] "You are trying really hard to make this work, and it simply isn't."
And: There is NO Application, which can open .psd Files with FULL ACCESS to all features. There are many, that can open .psd, but they kill many of the features (so you can´t work like with the original file) - 3D etc. Sometimes, the images are manipulated with opening by other Apps - they don´t look the same.

[Gary Huff] "[Dave LaRonde] " Do you know of alternative applications that can do the same jobs as them? Alternatives that won't break the bank for most individuals? No? How about that."

So? Whose fault is that? It's the fault of someone who decided that since those three programs were already doing a good job, why try to compete? I fail to see what you are insinuating here. It also doesn't fit with your drug dealer analogy ("Has anyone made a drug as addictive as crack cocaine? No? How about that." - see? doesn't work)."


The discusion here is about the dependency, the use of this so called "cloud" will bring with.
"Adobe" (may be) couldn´t be called a monopolist legally, but they are nearby that (espec. for print-Design).
Professionals are dependend, because most workflows in the Graphical industry are based on software from "Adobe".
(PDF Workflows between Printing Companies and Artists, PlugIns you invested in in the past, ...)
They may be also dependend already, because they have to be uptodate withe the agencies they are working with or related companies.
And (estimated by myself) the Classical Industry of PaperDesign is absolutely dominated by "Adobe" - 90% or more in my eyes.
(Illustrator, InDesign, Photoshop)
Also in Web-Design there is yet domination (but not that much) of "Adobe" (Flash, Dreamweaver) but droping.
Many of these users have to jump on this cloud, if they don´t want to lose clients, work. It´s no choice to do so.
And again: It´s not discussed, if the Apps themselves are good or not.
Drug Dealer:
No question, that you bring your files in a dependency, with the use of the so called "cloud", or?
If I use a hammer (for rent) and create a ladder with that...
I can use the ladder after that with no further costs (CS and most otther Sofware-licensing. I own the right to use the software lifelong)
With the CashCow licensing I would have to pay again and again for the rent of a hammer if I want to use my ladder!?!
So. After a few years of "cloud" use - I´m in a strange dependency. I´t will be hard to change my tools, If I know, that I lose the full access to all my creations.
I have to open files, which are between 1 to 5 yrs old every day. Sometimes the files are very much older.
If I jump of the cloud, I have to pay, for nothing else, than open my own creations.
Doesn´t matter if I only want to open, print, convert or change them.
For many newcomers the "small" monthly fee, some of your friends "can cough up" (that´s also 100% correct human discusion?) will be an entrance to that dependency.
And may be, they are not aware, of which strange dependency they are getting in.
(Times of low income = No tools)
So I´m not of the opinion, that the drug dealer comparison is that wrong.

And the worst: There is NO written guaranty from "A", what the use of your own creation will cost in the future!
For the moment they have to work like hell with bringing users into dependency or if you prefer: bringing users on the cloud.
They sell with discounts.
They must bring this to success.
They need to reach their targets as WallStreet is watching.
BUT: If they really want to reach the incomes they are dreaming of till 2016 with losing nearby half of their users...
(http://www.adobe.com/investor-relations.html?promoid=JOPDL)
It´s leagl to be afraid of the costs you have to add if you ever want to quit your subscription.
(In my case I would have to stay in the cloud for a min of 3 to 5 yrs - only to have access to the Apps, which will enable me to use my archive)

At least, i forgot, don´t use that little advantages of the so called "cloud" like the Adobe Fonts: If you ever plan to jump of one day in future, you will have also Xtra costs by doing so. If you like to open and change files (you once created) with other Apps.


Return to posts index

Gary Huff
Re: Adobe expands Photoshop and Lightroom offer till 2 dec.
on Dec 1, 2013 at 8:23:18 pm

[Rainer Schubert] "
And the worst: There is NO written guaranty from "A", what the use of your own creation will cost in the future!"


Adobe wouldn't last a day in court if they tried to own whatever you created on their software.


Return to posts index

Rainer Schubert
Re: Adobe expands Photoshop and Lightroom offer till 2 dec.
on Dec 1, 2013 at 8:32:20 pm

that´s absolutely not what I wrote.
(Today there is no warranty of prices for future subscription. If I have 10.000 of files, I only can open with Adobe SW it´s a strange dependency. I didn´t say, they own or want to own my files. But in future scenarios they can raise the prices to a very high level.)


Return to posts index

Gary Huff
Re: Adobe expands Photoshop and Lightroom offer till 2 dec.
on Dec 1, 2013 at 11:17:48 pm

[Rainer Schubert] "(Today there is no warranty of prices for future subscription. If I have 10.000 of files, I only can open with Adobe SW it´s a strange dependency. I didn´t say, they own or want to own my files. But in future scenarios they can raise the prices to a very high level.)"

You have 10,000 files that only open in Adobe software? I find that rather hard to believe.


Return to posts index

Rainer Schubert
Re: Adobe expands Photoshop and Lightroom offer till 2 dec.
on Dec 2, 2013 at 12:02:48 am
Last Edited By Rainer Schubert on Dec 2, 2013 at 12:52:51 am

A few 10 thousand/a year

Can reach 100.000 or more if it´s a good year :)

(Print- and Web- Design is completely different from Video editing. Video is only a small part of my business)
For your understanding:
A 3 Modell needs Textures for it´s surface.
Mostly these Files are .psd Files.
One single 3D File can have 100 of them referenced.
If it´s a model of a complicated thing (may be a power plant) there can be 1000.
But I have to count them all, because I have to change them again and again.
And also I have to guaranty my clients access to their files for a min. of three years by contract. That´s usual in Industry.
Means: I have to be able to change them on request, or to give them to my clients as a copy.
(Think of a client, who will sell a product with a new color & I have the 3D File for Visualization.
In this case I often have to change these Textures before I render agin)

Also a catalogue is often linked to a few 100 (or more) .psd Files.
I have to change them (the catalogues and the product images) all the time.
These documents are sometimes used for decades (catalogues).

Technical documentations sometimes only need a few updates, because some product features have changed.

My Image collection (of Images I bought and Images I hold for clients) are more than 15.000 Files.
Mostly .psd Files.

And so on.

If I have to estimate between 40- 60% (or more) are Files, created with SW from "Adobe".
Most of them not only openable with Adobe SW, but the most only openable with full access to all features by "Adobe" SW.

But this was in the past. Today I use CS6 only where I have no alternative workflow.

You have also to take care of the fact, that the file format of PS can be changed to something unreadable (for other Apps) in the future of CashCow.
"Adobe" is explicit giving NO warranty, that the behavior (ability to be opened) of .psd Files will be the same as in the past with future Versions of PS CC.
And so the CashCow is a big risk (for me).


Return to posts index

Gary Huff
Re: Adobe expands Photoshop and Lightroom offer till 2 dec.
on Dec 2, 2013 at 3:54:43 am

[Rainer Schubert] "Mostly these Files are .psd Files.
One single 3D File can have 100 of them re"


Yeah, and have you tried opening the in, say, Pixelmator and making sure they don't work?

[Rainer Schubert] "And also I have to guaranty my clients access to their files for a min. of three years by contract. That´s usual in Industry."

Access to their files? That doesn't really mean you have to give your clients access to open the .PROJ or am I missing something?

[Rainer Schubert] "Most of them not only openable with Adobe SW, but the most only openable with full access to all features by "Adobe" SW."

And you've tested this fully? You might be surprised.

[Rainer Schubert] "You have also to take care of the fact, that the file format of PS can be changed to something unreadable (for other Apps) in the future of CashCow."

You can plan for the future, but you can't use something that has yet to happen as the basis of your argument. "Slippery slope" in this instance, is a fallacy.

[Rainer Schubert] "And so the CashCow is a big risk (for me)."

Based on the future, which you are surmising based on...what?


Return to posts index

Rainer Schubert
Re: Adobe expands Photoshop and Lightroom offer till 2 dec.
on Dec 2, 2013 at 5:11:21 am

[Gary Huff] "[Rainer Schubert] "Mostly these Files are .psd Files.
One single 3D File can have 100 of them re"

Yeah, and have you tried opening the in, say, Pixelmator and making sure they don't work?


Not such a great Problem with Textures. They are in RGB Format - there is no existing CMYK renderer.
So I can open and change these File Types with Alternatives.
Other with Print Files in CMYK PSD Format. You can´t edit satisfying with Pixelmator.
Also HDRI images that where done with PS are a problem.

[Rainer Schubert] "And also I have to guaranty my clients access to their files for a min. of three years by contract. That´s usual in Industry."

Access to their files? That doesn't really mean you have to give your clients access to open the .PROJ or am I missing something?


This doesn´t belong to my Video Work/Clients. They must only be editable - The client wants the right to order changes of the results within 3 years.
But many of my 3D Creations have to be done with standards, that are given by customers.
The client will get the full editable Files and/or Projects with all related files if he likes to change me as an supplier or if he decides to do the work (or parts of it) on his own in future.
(Much more problematic as with Video, because in the 3D Files there often is much of our know how, which we give away with the files)
Also for some image manipulation I have nearby the same conditions.

[Rainer Schubert] "Most of them not only openable with Adobe SW, but the most only openable with full access to all features by "Adobe" SW."

And you've tested this fully? You might be surprised.


Believe me - We also tested (really) many ways. Also very surprised sometimes.
You are right with that, that many .psd Files can be opened without any problems with GIMP, Pixelmator and all the others.
It´s more difficult if you need a satisfying Color Management, Profiles and CMYK Filetypes.
It´s totally disapointing if it comes to features like the 3D abilities or if you use exotic PlugIns.
But PS isn´t the biggest problem.
The other Print Apps like InDesign and Illustrator are more difficult.
Also the compatibility of the Web-Solutions.

BtW: I wrote "only openable with full access to all features by "Adobe" SW."". I can use most (80% - 90%) of my files with alternative products and without restrictions. Thats true.
But many of them I simply can´t use or use the way I want, because alternatives can´t open or the support of features is missing and not available there (3D in PS for example). Not all InDesign Documents open correctly with Quark (and are dependent to the referenced .psd Files also). Also not all features of Illustrator are supported by other Apps. Web-Files sometimes have Code Problems.

[Rainer Schubert] "You have also to take care of the fact, that the file format of PS can be changed to something unreadable (for other Apps) in the future of CashCow."

You can plan for the future, but you can't use something that has yet to happen as the basis of your argument. "Slippery slope" in this instance, is a fallacy.


But I can see this as an risk, when I´m making plans for the future, or? I didn´t wrote it will happen.
But if it happens (and let´s say I´m already a few years on the cloud, when it happens), may be I have to change my workflows from one day to the other.
So I prefer to take my consequences now. Learning and investing in alternative Software now.

[Rainer Schubert] "And so the CashCow is a big risk (for me)."

Based on the future, which you are surmising based on...what?"


A rental of software without a serious buy out isn´a forseeable thing.
I want to know, that my clients & my own files are available & I´m sure that I (ever) have the tools to use them.
Sometimes I´m afraid of times with low income, where the dependency to this so called "cloud" can make a problem a catastrophe.
I want the freedom of choice, to decide to change my software without paying double for years (My access to "Adobe" dependend archive & The new solution).
Not a real argument: But I don´t like renting at all.
I don´t like the one or all strategy, because I can´t choose other tools for some fields of work as easy (or only with doubled costs)
I don´t want others to follow "Adobe".
I don´t want a Software Developer, who is paid anyway (No need to create best upgrades).
When I have a look to the Adobe Forums - I don´t want Beta Upgrades.
Also not a valid argument: This so called "cloud" takes the tools from users, which are not good situated.

I don´t want a future, where the first thing, my PC/MAC does, is asking my bank, if there is enough money for startup.
Which is the consequence if you bring it to the end.


Return to posts index

Gary Huff
Re: Adobe expands Photoshop and Lightroom offer till 2 dec.
on Dec 2, 2013 at 12:35:55 pm

[Rainer Schubert] "I don´t want a future, where the first thing, my PC/MAC does, is asking my bank, if there is enough money for startup. Which is the consequence if you bring it to the end."

I don't think it's been established that Adobe's potential success with Creative Cloud will absolutely bring about that end.


Return to posts index

Rainer Schubert
Re: Adobe expands Photoshop and Lightroom offer till 2 dec.
on Dec 2, 2013 at 12:42:14 pm

No. Truly not sure that this will happen.
But the distribution model is a little bit like that & I´m nearby sure, that MS will follow with Office 365 if "A" brings this CC to a financial success.
I don´t like monthly bills at the end.
Some will say, planning is easier that way. In my eyes it´s not.


Return to posts index

Gary Huff
Re: Adobe expands Photoshop and Lightroom offer till 2 dec.
on Dec 2, 2013 at 1:18:06 pm

[Rainer Schubert] "But the distribution model is a little bit like that & I´m nearby sure, that MS will follow with Office 365 if "A" brings this CC to a financial success"

Office 365 is exactly like that. But they still decided that they needed to offer Office 2013 as well.


Return to posts index

David Lawrence
Re: Adobe expands Photoshop and Lightroom offer till 2 dec.
on Dec 2, 2013 at 5:08:02 pm

[Gary Huff] "But they still decided that they needed to offer Office 2013 as well."

And why do you suppose that is?

_______________________
David Lawrence
art~media~design~research
propaganda.com
publicmattersgroup.com
facebook.com/dlawrence
twitter.com/dhl
vimeo.com/dlawrence/albums


Return to posts index

Gary Huff
Re: Adobe expands Photoshop and Lightroom offer till 2 dec.
on Dec 2, 2013 at 6:43:40 pm

[David Lawrence] "And why do you suppose that is?"

Because Enterprise wasn't ready to switch. Perhaps they never will be. But Microsoft is in a bit different position than Adobe is (I'm sure Adobe would love to be in that market as hardcore as Microsoft is), so comparisons really aren't helpful.

Adobe looked at the numbers (I would assume) and decided to take a leap of faith. It will either work out for them or it will not.


Return to posts index

David Lawrence
Re: Adobe expands Photoshop and Lightroom offer till 2 dec.
on Dec 2, 2013 at 7:01:17 pm

[Gary Huff] "Because Enterprise wasn't ready to switch. Perhaps they never will be."

Same with consumers. Microsoft has said this publicly:

Microsoft to Adobe: People not ready to give up on stand-alone software

[Gary Huff] "But Microsoft is in a bit different position than Adobe is (I'm sure Adobe would love to be in that market as hardcore as Microsoft is), so comparisons really aren't helpful."

Dream on. Adobe is the seventh largest software company in the world and the only software company on this list that serves the digital creative market.

[Gary Huff] "Adobe looked at the numbers (I would assume) and decided to take a leap of faith. It will either work out for them or it will not."

Agreed. It's a bold but misguided move by one of the largest software corporations in the world to lock-in their multi-million user customer-base. I want it to fail not just for the sake of customers, but for Adobe's health as well. Companies that prioritize the needs of short-term Wall Street gamblers over their customers set themselves up for long-term decline.

_______________________
David Lawrence
art~media~design~research
propaganda.com
publicmattersgroup.com
facebook.com/dlawrence
twitter.com/dhl
vimeo.com/dlawrence/albums


Return to posts index

Gary Huff
Re: Adobe expands Photoshop and Lightroom offer till 2 dec.
on Dec 2, 2013 at 7:26:26 pm

[David Lawrence] "Adobe is the seventh largest software company in the world and the only software company on this list that serves the digital creative market."

You are aware that there is an entirely different portion of Adobe's business that has nothing to do with Premiere, After Effects, Illustrator, ect. right?


Return to posts index

David Lawrence
Re: Adobe expands Photoshop and Lightroom offer till 2 dec.
on Dec 2, 2013 at 7:33:49 pm

[Gary Huff] "You are aware that there is an entirely different portion of Adobe's business that has nothing to do with Premiere, After Effects, Illustrator, ect. right?"

Yes. It doesn't change the fact that Adobe is the also the market leader in the digital creative tools business.

_______________________
David Lawrence
art~media~design~research
propaganda.com
publicmattersgroup.com
facebook.com/dlawrence
twitter.com/dhl
vimeo.com/dlawrence/albums


Return to posts index

Gary Huff
Re: Adobe expands Photoshop and Lightroom offer till 2 dec.
on Dec 2, 2013 at 7:37:58 pm

[David Lawrence] "It doesn't change the fact that Adobe is the also the market leader in the digital creative tools business."

The point being that it's digital tools business alone is not what puts it in the listing.


Return to posts index

David Lawrence
Re: Adobe expands Photoshop and Lightroom offer till 2 dec.
on Dec 2, 2013 at 7:52:22 pm

[Gary Huff] "The point being that it's digital tools business alone is not what puts it in the listing."

Your point being?

The fact remains Adobe is a huge corporation with a huge and essential digital tools business.

Adobe management is taking a huge gamble with this business at the expense of millions of customers. This is the exactly the kind of Wall Street-driven BS that ruins great companies.

As a former Adobe customer who still loves Adobe tools, this really pisses me off. I'd much prefer to see a win-win for customers and Adobe. There are many scenarios that will work for everyone. Management just has to start listening.

_______________________
David Lawrence
art~media~design~research
propaganda.com
publicmattersgroup.com
facebook.com/dlawrence
twitter.com/dhl
vimeo.com/dlawrence/albums


Return to posts index

Gary Huff
Re: Adobe expands Photoshop and Lightroom offer till 2 dec.
on Dec 2, 2013 at 8:51:09 pm

[David Lawrence] "
Your point being?"


That Adobe's marketshare of its Creative Tools isn't quite like Office.


Return to posts index

David Lawrence
Re: Adobe expands Photoshop and Lightroom offer till 2 dec.
on Dec 2, 2013 at 8:56:43 pm

[Gary Huff] "That Adobe's marketshare of its Creative Tools isn't quite like Office."

Irrelevant. There's a reason Photoshop is a verb.

_______________________
David Lawrence
art~media~design~research
propaganda.com
publicmattersgroup.com
facebook.com/dlawrence
twitter.com/dhl
vimeo.com/dlawrence/albums


Return to posts index

Gary Huff
Re: Adobe expands Photoshop and Lightroom offer till 2 dec.
on Dec 2, 2013 at 10:16:38 pm

[David Lawrence] "Irrelevant. There's a reason Photoshop is a verb."

How many people do you think use Photoshop as a verb who have never touched Photoshop?


Return to posts index

David Lawrence
Re: Adobe expands Photoshop and Lightroom offer till 2 dec.
on Dec 2, 2013 at 10:29:14 pm

[Gary Huff] "How many people do you think use Photoshop as a verb who have never touched Photoshop?"

Honestly Gary, I really don't get your point. If you're trying to suggest that Adobe is a small, struggling software company that has no choice but to force their new rental-only model on customers, you're grasping at straws.

Fact - Adobe is the seventh largest software company in the world.
Fact - Adobe's rental-only business model is a choice.
Fact - a lot of customers think it's a bad one.

_______________________
David Lawrence
art~media~design~research
propaganda.com
publicmattersgroup.com
facebook.com/dlawrence
twitter.com/dhl
vimeo.com/dlawrence/albums


Return to posts index

Chris Pettit
Re: Adobe expands Photoshop and Lightroom offer till 2 dec.
on Dec 2, 2013 at 11:39:56 pm

[David Lawrence] " If you're trying to suggest that Adobe is a small, struggling software company that has no choice but to force their new rental-only model on customers, you're grasping at straws.

Fact - Adobe is the seventh largest software company in the world.
Fact - Adobe's rental-only business model is a choice.
Fact - a lot of customers think it's a bad one."


That's it. +1


Return to posts index

Walter Soyka
Re: Adobe expands Photoshop and Lightroom offer till 2 dec.
on Dec 2, 2013 at 8:37:21 pm

[Rainer Schubert] "If I have 10.000 of files, I only can open with Adobe SW it´s a strange dependency."

I understand. I have quite a few files I can only open on Apple software, which only runs on Apple hardware. For years, I also made the questionable choice of mastering with a proprietary Apple codec.

Interdependence is a fact of life, and the future is always uncertain. I don't feel that my perpetual licenses to old or dead software insulate me against this, or that subscription software significantly increases this.

More valuable to me than a perpetual license for an app is access to the data I made using the app in the first place. Editors, if EDL/XML/AAF isn't enough, file requests for scripting in Premiere. Designers, be aware that Ae/Ps/Il/Id already have extensive scripting capabilities that can make your projects more portable than you think.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


Return to posts index

Aindreas Gallagher
Re: Adobe expands Photoshop and Lightroom offer till 2 dec.
on Dec 2, 2013 at 3:36:33 am

given what they are trying to do Gary. Long term. you are rental for the software. how stupid are you supposed to be.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


Return to posts index

Aindreas Gallagher
Re: Adobe expands Photoshop and Lightroom offer till 2 dec.
on Dec 2, 2013 at 4:09:00 am
Last Edited By Aindreas Gallagher on Dec 2, 2013 at 11:04:24 am

[Rainer Schubert] "es, Pixelmator, iDraw, Motion."

Wether the Pixelmator to PS nor iDraw to illustrator comparison is valid.
Pixelmator doesn´t have the CMYK support as PS has (What is absolutely a fundamental lack & a deal-breaker)
3D Functions and many other Std. Features missing also.
iDraw has not 50% of Complexity as Illustrator.
Is on it´s way & very fast and userfriendly to use.
But also no CMYK (as far as I know), which is a necessity for professional Artist (print)

AE & Motion can be compared, but with low success (as they are really different and both have their advantages and disadvantages).
I think, it´s hard to find a/the conclusion. And the question, which one is better to use, belongs to the projects.

[Gary Huff] "[Dave LaRonde] "The features and program files used or created with them become non-functional if payment is stopped."

Yeah, you can't open .PROJ or .AEP files in other software, but you can export .XML. Not ideal, but can happen in a pinch. Illustrator you can export to PDF and Photoshop can be opened by others. So still not sure what your ultimate point is."

May be you will be satisfied with XML export of PREM, AE (For me it´s absolutely not).
But please don´t tell me (mostly an Print Designer) an PDF (converted from Illustrator) is a working thing for a print professional.
Ever edited text line by line or word by word? I think.....
[Gary Huff] "You are trying really hard to make this work, and it simply isn't."
And: There is NO Application, which can open .psd Files with FULL ACCESS to all features. There are many, that can open .psd, but they kill many of the features (so you can´t work like with the original file) - 3D etc. Sometimes, the images are manipulated with opening by other Apps - they don´t look the same.

[Gary Huff] "[Dave LaRonde] " Do you know of alternative applications that can do the same jobs as them? Alternatives that won't break the bank for most individuals? No? How about that."

So? Whose fault is that? It's the fault of someone who decided that since those three programs were already doing a good job, why try to compete? I fail to see what you are insinuating here. It also doesn't fit with your drug dealer analogy ("Has anyone made a drug as addictive as crack cocaine? No? How about that." - see? doesn't work)."

The discusion here is about the dependency, the use of this so called "cloud" will bring with.
"Adobe" (may be) couldn´t be called a monopolist legally, but they are nearby that (espec. for print-Design).
Professionals are dependend, because most workflows in the Graphical industry are based on software from "Adobe".
(PDF Workflows between Printing Companies and Artists, PlugIns you invested in in the past, ...)
They may be also dependend already, because they have to be uptodate withe the agencies they are working with or related companies.
And (estimated by myself) the Classical Industry of PaperDesign is absolutely dominated by "Adobe" - 90% or more in my eyes.
(Illustrator, InDesign, Photoshop)
Also in Web-Design there is yet domination (but not that much) of "Adobe" (Flash, Dreamweaver) but droping.
Many of these users have to jump on this cloud, if they don´t want to lose clients, work. It´s no choice to do so.
And again: It´s not discussed, if the Apps themselves are good or not.
Drug Dealer:
No question, that you bring your files in a dependency, with the use of the so called "cloud", or?
If I use a hammer (for rent) and create a ladder with that...
I can use the ladder after that with no further costs (CS and most otther Sofware-licensing. I own the right to use the software lifelong)
With the CashCow licensing I would have to pay again and again for the rent of a hammer if I want to use my ladder!?!
So. After a few years of "cloud" use - I´m in a strange dependency. I´t will be hard to change my tools, If I know, that I lose the full access to all my creations.
I have to open files, which are between 1 to 5 yrs old every day. Sometimes the files are very much older.
If I jump of the cloud, I have to pay, for nothing else, than open my own creations.
Doesn´t matter if I only want to open, print, convert or change them.
For many newcomers the "small" monthly fee, some of your friends "can cough up" (that´s also 100% correct human discusion?) will be an entrance to that dependency.
And may be, they are not aware, of which strange dependency they are getting in.
(Times of low income = No tools)
So I´m not of the opinion, that the drug dealer comparison is that wrong.

And the worst: There is NO written guaranty from "A", what the use of your own creation will cost in the future!
For the moment they have to work like hell with bringing users into dependency or if you prefer: bringing users on the cloud.
They sell with discounts.
They must bring this to success.
They need to reach their targets as WallStreet is watching.
BUT: If they really want to reach the incomes they are dreaming of till 2016 with losing nearby half of their users...
(http://www.adobe.com/investor-relations.html?promoid=JOPDL)
It´s leagl to be afraid of the costs you have to add if you ever want to quit your subscription.
(In my case I would have to stay in the cloud for a min of 3 to 5 yrs - only to have access to the Apps, which will enable me to use my archive)

At least, i forgot, don´t use that little advantages of the so called "cloud" like the Adobe Fonts: If you ever plan to jump of one day in future, you will have also Xtra costs by doing so. If you like to open and change files (you once created) with other Apps."



Seriously, for the curious,

try reading the above as a quote.

Doesn't it sound odd?

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


Return to posts index

Rainer Schubert
Re: Adobe expands Photoshop and Lightroom offer till 2 dec.
on Dec 2, 2013 at 6:23:47 am

Uups - here the right place:

[Aindreas Gallagher] Doesn't rainer sound ludicrously weird?

? Not a compiment, or?
You kow: Not a native speaker, bu I don´t think so.
Like Gary said: that comes off as racist.


Return to posts index

Gary Huff
Re: Adobe expands Photoshop and Lightroom offer till 2 dec.
on Dec 2, 2013 at 12:35:04 pm

[Rainer Schubert] "Like Gary said: that comes off as racist."

I don't think that's it. It seems like you write in German and then use Google Translate to go to English and then copy and paste the result.

It reads a lot like Google Translate. But it does make it hard to understand, because Google Translate isn't exactly accurate.


Return to posts index

Aindreas Gallagher
Re: Adobe expands Photoshop and Lightroom offer till 2 dec.
on Dec 2, 2013 at 11:07:02 pm

[Rainer Schubert] "You kow: Not a native speaker, bu I don´t think so.
Like Gary said: that comes off as racist."



You know its weird though rainer, even in that sentence above, you leave the N out of know and the t out of but, your syntax is tortured at times,

but then you produce a completely fluent use of english vernacular:

Like Gary said: that comes off as racist.

Its really strange - that's a very confident line. you're suddenly using colon punctuation and producing a perfect line of english referencing another post to make the point.

You're from nuremburg you said right? because there's an odd mix of sudden fluency and then tracts of other stuff. Is Gary right? Are you using google translate at times?

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


Return to posts index

Rainer Schubert
Re: Adobe expands Photoshop and Lightroom offer till 2 dec.
on Dec 2, 2013 at 11:37:17 pm

only leo.org for the words I don´t know. No google translations.
But I like foreign documentations, which are done this way.
Or menu Cards where the german translation is done automatically.
(Once in Portugal we found a meal - try to say with my poor English: "The dropping of a camel". We didn´t order (naturally) and don´t know, what was meant till today)
I try hard to bring my english up to yours.
(ever better in physics & math than in languages)
But difficult, if there is none kicking me for my mistakes - like you.

Btw: Difficult to find a translation: "ludicrously weird"
so what?


Return to posts index

Aindreas Gallagher
Re: Adobe expands Photoshop and Lightroom offer till 2 dec.
on Dec 3, 2013 at 12:15:10 am

well, come on, german is an excellent language that can handle thoughts and concepts way better than english - the sister is a professor of english, but she carried german through to masters - she's full bore fluent, and she respects it more than any other language. I didn't study as hard -

Mochten sie ein Apfelsaft? Warum habe ich schlecht deutsch? Aber Ja, es ist naturlich! Ich bin Irischer!

the ludicrously weird thing, which was crass, is that there are passages of fluency, and then really odd runs - whereabouts in nuremberg are you from?

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


Return to posts index

Aindreas Gallagher
Re: Adobe expands Photoshop and Lightroom offer till 2 dec.
on Dec 3, 2013 at 1:22:06 am

also, looking back - I think I used the neutral case wrong in that sentence - did I? Five years wasted!

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


Return to posts index

Rainer Schubert
Re: Adobe expands Photoshop and Lightroom offer till 2 dec.
on Dec 3, 2013 at 2:14:19 am
Last Edited By Rainer Schubert on Dec 3, 2013 at 2:33:58 am

Didn´t understand what is meant (exactly) with "ludic..."
Wanted a description - but meanwhile I don´t (better, or?) .

Not exactly Nueremberg. 18 Miles away, a suburb of Erlangen (South of Nbg).

Wow. Only so few people are able to write in german...
Mochten sie ein Apfelsaft? Warum habe ich schlecht deutsch? Aber Ja, es ist naturlich! Ich bin Irischer!
Google can´t do better...

Also Ass done (we are quit now)?

And, yes, German is a perfect Language.
There are so many possibilities between the lines and letters...
(PS.: The ungoogled Version:
Möchten Sie einen Apfelsaft?
Warum habe ich schlechtes Deutsch? Besser: Wieso ist mein Deutsch schlecht?
Aber ja, natürlich! Ich bin ein Irischer! Viel besser: Ach ja, klar, ich bin ja Ire! Or in your case: irre! (Now it´s 2:1 for me))


Return to posts index

Aindreas Gallagher
Re: Adobe expands Photoshop and Lightroom offer till 2 dec.
on Dec 3, 2013 at 2:44:30 am
Last Edited By Aindreas Gallagher on Dec 3, 2013 at 3:36:22 am

[Rainer Schubert] "Wow. Only so few people are able to write in german...
Mochten sie ein Apfelsaft? Warum habe ich schlecht deutsch? Aber Ja, es ist naturlich! Ich bin Irischer!
Google can´t do better...

Also Ass done (we are quit now)?

And, yes, German is a perfect Language. "


Wow. Only so few people are able to write in german

that sounded so weirdly fluent in english.

indeed, for kicks lets do a german back and forth. I'll lose! lets do this. the joke topic is secondary school standards where female teachers have discrimination against red headed spotty sons from cologne.

you start there rainer - go on - my five years of german will go badly!

lets do this right now the second you read this post. You will begin this topic immediately in german.

wie gehen sie am besten zur schule mate? :) it's language fun!

please respond with the fearful teacher, the acne, and the social difficulties implicit in cologne within a paragraph of your german. Have fun!

Wo bist du??? Ich konnte nicht. Bist du nicht deutsch?

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


Return to posts index

Rainer Schubert
Re: Adobe expands Photoshop and Lightroom offer till 2 dec.
on Dec 3, 2013 at 4:25:38 am

hihi

[Aindreas Gallagher] "You will begin this topic immediately in german"

Ey, Aindreas, it´s very late here (5 am) & I´m just ready with my work...
You really like to abuse the Cow this way?
Now?
Immediately?

OK. Dann erklär mir doch als erstes mal, was Du unter "secondary school standards" verstehst.
Oder noch besser. Fang Du doch einfach schon mal an, und ich versuche dann morgen weiter zu machen...
(Ich weiss nicht so genau, was Du vor hast)
Und erklär mir doch auch gleich mal was Du mit "Wo bist du??? Ich konnte nicht. Bist du nicht deutsch?"meinst.


Return to posts index

Aindreas Gallagher
Re: Adobe expands Photoshop and Lightroom offer till 2 dec.
on Dec 3, 2013 at 2:20:49 am

was wollen sie sagt am deutsch Rainer? Bis Adobe? Ich spreche schlecht Irische deutsch? Wo bist du? Meine Schwester ist heute am minuten mit mir am internet!

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


Return to posts index

Dave LaRonde
Re: Adobe expands Photoshop and Lightroom offer till 2 dec.
on Dec 2, 2013 at 6:31:46 pm
Last Edited By Dave LaRonde on Dec 2, 2013 at 6:41:08 pm

[Gary Huff] " ...Pixelmator, iDraw, Motion."

Seriously? Those are your viable alternatives to Photoshop, Illustrator and After Effects in the same way that FCP or Avid are viable alternatives to Premiere? Wow.


[Gary Huff] " ...Only that you smile to yourself, pump your fist in the air, and exclaim, "I got you, Adobe!" only you look foolish."

Glad to know that you're able to add clairvoyance to your list of talents.

The issue for myself and many has always been about the ability to access and modify one's past work without the necessity to pay a monthly fee to do so. As it stands, the moment you use either Creative Cloud software or a new feature within Creative Cloud software, that ability is gone. You become reliant on it.

Apparently, this doesn't bother you. It bothers many.

On a totally different topic, I see this is posted on the expiration date of the Adobe offer that prompted this thread. I wonder how it worked out for Adobe? Poorly, I hope.

Dave LaRonde
Promotion Producer
KGAN (CBS) & KFXA (Fox) Cedar Rapids, IA


Return to posts index

Gary Huff
Re: Adobe expands Photoshop and Lightroom offer till 2 dec.
on Dec 2, 2013 at 6:41:55 pm

[Dave LaRonde] "
Seriously? Those are your viable alternatives to Photoshop, Illustrator and After Effects in the same way that FCP or Avid are viable alternatives to Premiere? Wow."


For some of those, they are perfectly reasonable alternatives, for others they are not. But they are alternative, no matter how much you'd like to argue matters of degree.

[Dave LaRonde] "Glad to know that you're able to add clairvoyance to your list of talents."

If you don't wish to give that impression, then perhaps you should lay off the comparisons to drug dealers?

[Dave LaRonde] "Apparently, this doesn't bother you. It bothers many."

It doesn't bother enough for Adobe to be unable to reach their subscription goals though.


Return to posts index

Dave LaRonde
Re: Adobe expands Photoshop and Lightroom offer till 2 dec.
on Dec 2, 2013 at 8:07:05 pm

[Gary Huff] "For some of those, they are perfectly reasonable alternatives, for others they are not. But they are alternative, no matter how much you'd like to argue matters of degree."

Using that same logic, iMovie would be an alternative to FCP. Good luck with that one. But perhaps you use iMovie yourself for paying projects, if it's simply a matter of degree.


[Gary Huff] "If you don't wish to give that impression, then perhaps you should lay off the comparisons to drug dealers?"

I'll be glad to when Adobe decides to abandon this foolish notion of renting software. Until then, let the comparisons fly. I'm not the only one who uses them. Some people use "renting one's tools", for example. Others talk use the term "exit strategy". It's basically the same thing.



[Gary Huff] "It doesn't bother enough for Adobe to be unable to reach their subscription goals though."

Subscription goals? Perhaps, I don't have the numbers. Revenue goals? That could be iffy. Oh, wait -- once you have Adobe Creative Cloud software, you're stuck using it unless you like doing work over from scratch in another developer's application. Maybe people will see through the rental model, bite the bullet and do just that.

Dave LaRonde
Promotion Producer
KGAN (CBS) & KFXA (Fox) Cedar Rapids, IA


Return to posts index

Gary Huff
Re: Adobe expands Photoshop and Lightroom offer till 2 dec.
on Dec 2, 2013 at 8:45:11 pm

[Dave LaRonde] "
Using that same logic, iMovie would be an alternative to FCP. Good luck with that one. But perhaps you use iMovie yourself for paying projects, if it's simply a matter of degree."


You started off strong, but completely lost it at the end.


Return to posts index

Ricardo Marty
Re: Adobe expands Photoshop and Lightroom offer till 2 dec.
on Dec 2, 2013 at 10:35:41 pm

[Gary Huff] "It doesn't bother enough for Adobe to be unable to reach their subscription goals though."

Do you actually believe that adobe is reaching their goals?

What are there goals?

1- reach a pre-estimated amount of subscribers
2- Make money

Lets see:

1- They have had to make bargain basement offers to increase the numbers

2-They are not making the amount of money because they are selling so cheap.

Do you still think they are making the goals?

Ricardo


Return to posts index

Chris Pettit
Re: Adobe expands Photoshop and Lightroom offer till 2 dec.
on Dec 2, 2013 at 11:30:17 pm
Last Edited By Chris Pettit on Dec 2, 2013 at 11:32:54 pm

[Ricardo Marty] "Do you still think they are making the goals?"

Something else they're not making: Widespread acceptance in the Enterprise and Education sectors. They may get there at some point, but not yet. (thus all the discounts for teams etc)

Discounts, discounts discounts.

If discounts dry up after the first of the year it seems to me that Adobe will feel like it's on track to win this battle. If after the first of the year we continue to get bombarded with more "offer good till..." "sign up by" and "good thru..." eblasts and web ads, then its game on. Continued lowered profits in return for artificialy inflated subscription numbers

Next year is a big deal everyone. If Adobe succeeds in winning over enterprise and education, we're stuck with slowly migrating to other tools, no matter how painful that is. If they fail, then they will keep offering endless discounts until Wall Street wakes up one morning and realizes the return on investment is not quite what they bargained for.


Return to posts index

Ricardo Marty
Re: Adobe expands Photoshop and Lightroom offer till 2 dec.
on Dec 3, 2013 at 3:43:23 am

You need to remember that those that subscribed before the announcement in may 2013 (Jan through Aptil 2013)will be ending and it remains to be seen if they continue with the noose around there necks. Those numbers could mount to oover 250K subscribers.

Remember not everyone needs to go back to previous projects so these could easaly stop the subscription and move on.

My guess is that they will continue with even greater bargain basement offers cause they think that once they got them they have no choice but to continue. They want critical mass to show the investers.

At the moment they are lucky to have the "marketing Cloud" which is whats keeping them afloat specially with investors.



Hopefully fcpx will stand up to adobe with further development.


Ricardo Marty


Return to posts index

James Culbertson
Re: Adobe expands Photoshop and Lightroom offer till 2 dec.
on Nov 28, 2013 at 12:20:56 am

[Gary Huff] "Terrible analogy as well. Premiere isn't "addictive". I can, and do, stop using it from time to time to work in, say FCPX."

I think many of us find certain applications addictive in some sense. For me, Photoshop, After Effects and FCPX are addictive (perhaps it would be better to say that I am addicted to visual media, particularly film). My father was an alcoholic so I understand the limits of the analogy. On the other hand, I am glad that my addictive tendencies are limited to things like After Effects...


Return to posts index

Jim Wiseman
Re: Adobe expands Photoshop and Lightroom offer till 2 dec.
on Nov 28, 2013 at 3:15:54 am

Except indentured servitude had a time limit to freedom. CC does not.

Jim Wiseman
Sony PMW-EX1,Pana AJ-D810 DVCPro, DVX-100, Nikon D7000, Final Cut Studio 2 and 3, Media 100 Suite 2.1.3, Premiere Pro 5.5 and 6.0, AJA ioHD, AJA Kona LHi, Avid MC, Hexacore MacPro 3.33 Ghz 24Gb RAM GTX-285 120GB SSD, Macbook Pro 17" 2011 2.2 Ghz Quadcore i7 8Gb SSD, G5 Quadcore PCIe


Return to posts index

Aindreas Gallagher
Re: Adobe expands Photoshop and Lightroom offer till 2 dec.
on Nov 27, 2013 at 10:10:30 pm
Last Edited By Aindreas Gallagher on Nov 27, 2013 at 10:20:15 pm

[Gary Huff] "And b) actual slavery still happens, and so my comment still stands. To toss around the term so easily in reference to Adobe Creative Cloud is callous to the actual situation that certain members of human society have unfortunately found themselves in."

will you kindly stop histrionically masking the basic point.

Adobe are engaged in rentier capitalism. It's a really bad idea.

In the 21st century, we're not supposed to be, at tiny scale, turning up at the door of the behometh tool maker at the end of every month to hand them money for tools made twenty years ago. Particularly if we already paid for those tools ten times over.

I might as well put on an Olive Twist cap for that one. Say I broke my leg, Gary, but I really need after effects this month to finish that job. I need that money, but I magically can't own the tool. I mightn't be a slave, but it definitely doesn't look like anything I recognise from recent centuries. Small scale, secured tool ownership is an underpinning of the society we're currently sitting in. Mate. Gary. Comprende Vous?

Adobe are attempting to assert a direct power relationship to millions of small traders that software companies haven't dared try on at this scale, to this point.

Creative Cloud my ass. They almost need a top hat and a cigar for this one.

It's crappy, crappy predatory capitalism this, and quite the trip back in time.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


Return to posts index

David Lawrence
Re: Adobe expands Photoshop and Lightroom offer till 2 dec.
on Nov 28, 2013 at 12:28:42 am

[Aindreas Gallagher] "Adobe are attempting to assert a direct power relationship to millions of small traders that software companies haven't dared try on at this scale, to this point.

Creative Cloud my ass. They almost need a top hat and a cigar for this one.

It's crappy, crappy predatory capitalism this, and quite the trip back in time."


This ^.

_______________________
David Lawrence
art~media~design~research
propaganda.com
publicmattersgroup.com
facebook.com/dlawrence
twitter.com/dhl
vimeo.com/dlawrence/albums


Return to posts index

Walter Soyka
Re: Adobe expands Photoshop and Lightroom offer till 2 dec.
on Nov 28, 2013 at 1:20:11 am

[Aindreas Gallagher] "Adobe are engaged in rentier capitalism. It's a really bad idea. In the 21st century, we're not supposed to be, at tiny scale, turning up at the door of the behometh tool maker at the end of every month to hand them money for tools made twenty years ago. Particularly if we already paid for those tools ten times over."

I don't think Creative Cloud is rentier capitalism (defined at Wikipedia as "parasitic monopolization of access to any (physical, financial, intellectual, etc.) kind of property and gaining significant amount of profit without contribution to society").

I don't think you think that, either. Exhibit A [link]:

[Aindreas Gallagher] "and it [Premiere Pro]is a reliable cross platform editing system advancing, under Al Mooney, at an insane rate of knots... anyone who doesn't take a long look at the PPro that is now developing is kind of out of their minds. It matches and exceeds FCP in practise, and it is forcibly trying to eat avid heavy iron with anywhere etc. Adobe really are not messing around. "

As I look at these tools, I don't want to go back to the versions I had two years ago, let alone twenty years ago. I get that you don't think subscription is a good idea, but I don't think it's fair to suggest that Adobe is exploiting something they made twenty years ago without massive continuing contributions. I think they have thus far made continuous material improvements, and that CC subscribers have easily gotten their money's worth.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


Return to posts index

Gary Huff
Re: Adobe expands Photoshop and Lightroom offer till 2 dec.
on Nov 28, 2013 at 2:09:31 am

[Aindreas Gallagher] "I might as well put on an Olive Twist cap for that one. Say I broke my leg, Gary, but I really need after effects this month to finish that job. I need that money, but I magically can't own the tool. I mightn't be a slave, but it definitely doesn't look like anything I recognise from recent centuries. Small scale, secured tool ownership is an underpinning of the society we're currently sitting in. Mate. Gary. Comprende Vous?"

$30 is really going to be the make-or-break difference for you? Most people I know can cough that up if they really need to. I've been there and yet the idea doesn't bother me (by the way, can anyone actually give up their $100-ish per month cell phone bill either?)

I don't know if any of this ridiculous nonsense has been able to persuade anyone who was on the fence about Creative Cloud, but it definitely pushed me away from standing in any kind of solidarity, as the remaining detractors have resorted to complete nonsense. So I don't know if anyone here as pushed anyone away who wasn't already not going to subscribe, but it certainly pushed me towards subscribing.

So congrats.


Return to posts index

David Lawrence
Re: Adobe expands Photoshop and Lightroom offer till 2 dec.
on Nov 28, 2013 at 6:13:35 pm

[Gary Huff] "I don't know if any of this ridiculous nonsense has been able to persuade anyone who was on the fence about Creative Cloud, but it definitely pushed me away from standing in any kind of solidarity, as the remaining detractors have resorted to complete nonsense."

Gary, with all due respect, this forum is a polite tea party compared to the vitriol all over the internet, especially on Adobe's own social media platforms. People are pissed and for good reason. This is not and has never been about cost to those of us who object. Feel free to subscribe and enjoy your subscription. We'll continue to push Adobe management to make us a better offer.

_______________________
David Lawrence
art~media~design~research
propaganda.com
publicmattersgroup.com
facebook.com/dlawrence
twitter.com/dhl
vimeo.com/dlawrence/albums


Return to posts index

Billy Payn
Re: Adobe expands Photoshop and Lightroom offer till 2 dec.
on Nov 29, 2013 at 11:21:20 pm

Divide and conquer, the Executives who dreamed up the subscription only plan are watching with sweaty palms, and when they read this thread they will gain heart. Each time they extend an offer, their unhappy monolith lumbers forward an inch. I stand fast.



Return to posts index

Chris Pettit
Re: Adobe expands Photoshop and Lightroom offer till 2 dec.
on Nov 30, 2013 at 1:01:05 am

[Billy Payn] " I stand fast."

So do I.


Return to posts index

David Mathis
Re: Adobe expands Photoshop and Lightroom offer till 2 dec.
on Dec 2, 2013 at 10:26:38 am

Same here. I am more than happy to upgrade every year or perhaps every two years. I then have an older version to go back to in case the current one has any issues and not need to worry about another monthly expense. The subscription model does benefit some people but not everyone benefits from it.


Return to posts index

Ricardo Marty
Re: Adobe expands Photoshop and Lightroom offer till 2 dec.
on Nov 30, 2013 at 1:50:09 am

[Billy Payn] "Each time they extend an offer, their unhappy monolith lumbers forward an inch. I stand fast."

yes but at what price. giving it away in hopes that the user will be stuck with them. I dont think that most will.

Ricardo Marty


Return to posts index

Aindreas Gallagher
Re: Adobe expands Photoshop and Lightroom offer till 2 dec.
on Dec 2, 2013 at 1:16:27 am
Last Edited By Aindreas Gallagher on Dec 2, 2013 at 2:07:25 am

gary - we are supposed to be able to own our tools as a basic writ. At our scale, given the utility and our likely income, we're not supposed to rent them for a lifetime.

If you are ok with it good luck to you - but it is deeply problematic that software power centres are driving to a system that demands monthly payments from the tool user.

That stuff is not on. The last moron in the world could see that that is not what current society looks like - I can overdo this, but adobe are producing a logic argument for all trades, under their influence, that states that the craft worker does not have the right to the tool.

It is beyond crazy that this is happening.

And notable that it is happening under the aegis of a CEO very familiar, geographically, with caste societal stratification. you could say he was born from it. It is impossibly strange to me that the entire worth of all the industry encompassed by adobe tools is being reduced to rental labour. Why exactly is that happening?

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


Return to posts index

Gary Huff
Re: Adobe expands Photoshop and Lightroom offer till 2 dec.
on Dec 2, 2013 at 4:02:59 am

[Aindreas Gallagher] "At our scale, given the utility and our likely income, we're not supposed to rent them for a lifetime."

Well, Adobe is trying to change that. Frankly, I wouldn't be able to purchase a new Production Premium outright. It would have been on credit and paid off in monthly installments anyway. Then upgrading is a continuing cost. I couldn't be running CS3 very well right now either (and I doubt most people on here are on anything lower than the last perpetual version, CS6). However, a desire to not have to constantly rent is legitimate, but after a typical lifetime of software upgrades until you retire, I fail to see what the difference will be.

[Aindreas Gallagher] " but it is deeply problematic that software power centres are driving to a system that demands monthly payments from the tool user."

And I absolutely agree that this would be problematic for everyone to move to. But we'll see how it shakes out.

[Aindreas Gallagher] ", but adobe are producing a logic argument for all trades, under their influence, that states that the craft worker does not have the right to the tool."

First, as has been pointed out, you never really "owned" anything anyway. You still have to activate your copy of CS6, and it's not immune from activation issues, even after it's been working for a while. At any time Adobe could kill your copy of CS6, and what then? You trust them not to do it in the first place when you purchased CS6, did you not?

[Aindreas Gallagher] "And notable that it is happening under the aegis of a CEO very familiar, geographically, with caste societal stratification. you could say he was born from it."

Now matter how you have tried to phrase it, that comes off as racist.


Return to posts index

Aindreas Gallagher
Re: Adobe expands Photoshop and Lightroom offer till 2 dec.
on Dec 4, 2013 at 7:38:52 pm

[Gary Huff] "Aindreas Gallagher] "And notable that it is happening under the aegis of a CEO very familiar, geographically, with caste societal stratification. you could say he was born from it."

Now matter how you have tried to phrase it, that comes off as racist.
"


yes, possibly sailing close to the wind, lets just say that whenever he talks about the creative pursuits, he comes off incredibly inauthentic. And seriously - I've trawled quite a bit. He is the child of highly successful, wealthy high caste parents from Hyderabad.

Speaking as someone from a family which has high caste indian inlaws (or had until the marriage broke down), as someone who went out with a Jain for a bit a long time ago and talked about this quite a bit, I can't overstress the incredibly punitive class stratification of India into castes, and what kind of career is considered merit worthy.

I'll only say that shantanyu comes from a certain background that would have a very definitive view of the world, and it struck me that when he showed his sons photos as part of his max speech, he literally said something along the lines of fostering his interest - before he went to college. Shantanyu's son is incredibly unlikely to become a freelance photographer.

That's not racist - its a mortal lock fact. It would not feasibly represent a positive outcome for the Narayen family. I know reasonably whereof I speak here.

My basic contention is that Shantanyu is extremely unlikely to have an intrinsic deep measure of worth for free flowing unsecured creative freelance work. Watch twenty or thirty vids of the guy - particularly one of the bloomberg interviews that I can't find now - you do kind of get a feel for it.

His likely fundamental perceptions of the area are germane to an analysis of how he has decided to treat the small scale tool users of the software.
Given that he has decided to remove all tool ownership across the entirety of the creative industry under adobe's control.

It is fair game to question the basic motivations that would lead to such a sweepingly dismissive decision.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


Return to posts index

Gary Huff
Re: Adobe expands Photoshop and Lightroom offer till 2 dec.
on Dec 5, 2013 at 12:39:59 am

[Aindreas Gallagher] "My basic contention is that Shantanyu is extremely unlikely to have an intrinsic deep measure of worth for free flowing unsecured creative freelance work."

Considering that no one doing creative freelance work will ever make quite as much money as him, why would he? It's the same with any upper echelon management.


Return to posts index

Rainer Schubert
Re: Adobe expands Photoshop and Lightroom offer till 2 dec.
on Dec 2, 2013 at 5:27:10 am
Last Edited By Rainer Schubert on Dec 2, 2013 at 6:08:56 am

ludicrously weird?
No compliment, or?
Don´t think so.


Return to posts index

Aindreas Gallagher
Re: Adobe expands Photoshop and Lightroom offer till 2 dec.
on Dec 2, 2013 at 3:43:04 pm

ignore me - i was talking out my ass.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


Return to posts index

Rainer Schubert
Re: Adobe expands Photoshop and Lightroom offer till 2 dec.
on Dec 2, 2013 at 10:47:59 pm

Will do (what else?)
But your out of ass english better than mine out of mouth.
Sigh.


Return to posts index

Herbert van der wegen
Re: Adobe expands Photoshop and Lightroom offer till 2 dec.
on Dec 3, 2013 at 11:01:42 pm

I rather think Adobe's CC thing is akin to a digital version of serfdom. Which I do not agree with on any level.

/*----------------------------------------------------*/
System: Win7 64bit - i7 920@3.6Ghz, p6t Deluxe v1, 48gb (6x8gb RipjawsX), ATI 7970 3gb, EVGA 590 3GB, Revodrive X2 240gb, e-mu 1820. Screens: 2 x Samsung s27a850ds 2560x1440, HP 1920x1200 in portrait mode


Return to posts index

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
© 2017 CreativeCOW.net All Rights Reserved
[TOP]