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Will CC Kill Off Adoption of After Effects by the Next Generation of Motion Graphics Artists?

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Scott Clements
Will CC Kill Off Adoption of After Effects by the Next Generation of Motion Graphics Artists?
on Oct 24, 2013 at 5:11:16 pm

I am wondering what the next generation of young motion graphics artists will be using to learn their craft in their bedrooms. I think CC will make it very difficult for them to get off the ground with After Effects. I also wonder if CC is going to kill off the massive After Effects culture out there, with free tutorials left, right and centre. I was actually starting to wonder if this might be a good thing for Apple Motion?"

Film Editor, London UK
http://www.scottclementseditor.com


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Conrad Olson
Re: Will CC Kill Off Adoption of After Effects by the Next Generation of Motion Graphics Artists?
on Oct 24, 2013 at 6:17:26 pm

Why would CC make it harder for people to learn AE? $50/month is pretty affordable for a bedroom setup.

Are you assuming that there will be less pirate versions going around?

---

conradolson.com


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Shane Ross
Re: Will CC Kill Off Adoption of After Effects by the Next Generation of Motion Graphics Artists?
on Oct 24, 2013 at 8:15:18 pm

That is one thing I think is good about the CC. Makes it very affordable for the up and comers, the beginners. Students and the like. Small monthly fee rather than the huge payment.

I just don't like it being the only option.

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Richard Herd
Re: Will CC Kill Off Adoption of After Effects by the Next Generation of Motion Graphics Artists?
on Oct 25, 2013 at 6:43:49 pm

[Shane Ross] "Students and the like. "

Irony is that the Universities and High Schools are having problems affording CC.


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Todd Kopriva
Re: Will CC Kill Off Adoption of After Effects by the Next Generation of Motion Graphics Artists?
on Oct 24, 2013 at 8:32:27 pm

The student price is a lot lower than that. It's $19.99/mo.

details:
https://creative.adobe.com/plans

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Todd Kopriva, Adobe Systems Incorporated
After Effects quality engineering
After Effects team blog
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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Shawn Miller
Re: Will CC Kill Off Adoption of After Effects by the Next Generation of Motion Graphics Artists?
on Oct 24, 2013 at 8:24:47 pm

[Scott Clements] "I was actually starting to wonder if this might be a good thing for Apple Motion?"

Probably not, IMO Motion would have to be cross platform to gain as wide of an audience as AE amongst aspiring Mograph and VFX artists. I think AE, Cinema 4D Lite and Mocha AE are powerful enticements for those just getting into the field.

Shawn



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Chris Pettit
Re: Will CC Kill Off Adoption of After Effects by the Next Generation of Motion Graphics Artists?
on Oct 24, 2013 at 8:45:01 pm

[Shawn Miller] "I think AE, Cinema 4D Lite and Mocha AE are powerful enticements for those just getting into the field. "

Yeah, I reluctantly agree. If I was a new user I'd be all over it, particularly for the student price that Todd mentions.

One good argument for CC (not the mandatory part) is that it really has opened up availability to users that previously couldn't afford it. CC has in a sense democratized the software, which I think is a great thing. The problem is people like me have subsidized that democratization, and now no longer have options for how WE use the software.

Alas, as stated so many time before, WHY make it mandatory????? (rhetorical question, no need for a re-hash)

PS: a lot will depend on the education sector as well. If schools and colleges continue to have objections to the new model, they could go elsewhere for new standards to teach to.


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Scott Clements
Re: Will CC Kill Off Adoption of After Effects by the Next Generation of Motion Graphics Artists?
on Oct 24, 2013 at 9:42:40 pm

Everyone makes valid points, but getting to the stage where one is good enough to be a professional motion graphics artist could take years. While $19.99 per month (only in America) may seem like a deal for a few months, it would very quickly become cost prohibitive for a teenager or college age person. In my case (I was much older), I bought CS4 and invested subscription money in Lynda.com. I see on the creative cloud they have some Lynda videos, but not enough. If Adobe cut a deal to work all of Lynda.com's Adobe courses in there, that could really help make the cloud more appealing - especially to students. I just don't buy that students will accept being locked into paying for something for the rest of their lives. I think other platforms will spring up in retaliation. This whole creative cloud thing is very, very stressful.

Film Editor, London UK
http://www.scottclementseditor.com


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Dustin Lawhorn
Re: Will CC Kill Off Adoption of After Effects by the Next Generation of Motion Graphics Artists?
on Oct 24, 2013 at 10:09:26 pm

[Scott Clements] "If Adobe cut a deal to work all of Lynda.com's Adobe courses in there, that could really help make the cloud more appealing - especially to students. I just don't buy that students will accept being locked into paying for something for the rest of their lives. I think other platforms will spring up in retaliation. This whole creative cloud thing is very, very stressful."

Nicely put. That is the issue that I've been hearing from students. Some really think they can sign up for the duration of a class (semester) or perhaps a full year; then, just drop the subscription when they are done with the courses. That kind of logic works well on paper; and makes sense with their pocketbooks. However, after a few weeks of working with AE most of them begin to realize that their time with the program really needs to be more of a long term commitment. The result has been that a lot of students that were interested in pursuing motion graphics and special effects are starting to go in other directions saying they'll leave the graphics and effects to other folks. Also, (much to my surprise), FCPX is becoming more of a preferred alternative to Premiere--a year ago B.C. (Before CC), the CS suite was the winner... It's been an interesting "turning of the tables" to watch.

-dl


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Conrad Olson
Re: Will CC Kill Off Adoption of After Effects by the Next Generation of Motion Graphics Artists?
on Oct 24, 2013 at 10:16:27 pm

[Dustin Lawhorn] "However, after a few weeks of working with AE most of them begin to realize that their time with the program really needs to be more of a long term commitment. The result has been that a lot of students that were interested in pursuing motion graphics and special effects are starting to go in other directions saying they'll leave the graphics and effects to other folks."

But that's the case regardless of how much the software costs. If they are going to quit because of that then they wouldn't have made it into the industry anyway.

---

conradolson.com


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Dave LaRonde
Re: Will CC Kill Off Adoption of After Effects by the Next Generation of Motion Graphics Artists?
on Oct 24, 2013 at 10:23:22 pm

Hasn't Microsoft tried palming off their Office applications as software as a service?
I wonder how that's going on all those new Windows 8 laptops & tablets out there?

Dave LaRonde
Promotion Producer
KGAN (CBS) & KFXA (Fox) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Shawn Miller
Re: Will CC Kill Off Adoption of After Effects by the Next Generation of Motion Graphics Artists?
on Oct 24, 2013 at 11:12:21 pm

[Dave LaRonde] "Hasn't Microsoft tried palming off their Office applications as software as a service?
I wonder how that's going on all those new Windows 8 laptops & tablets out there?"


Not exactly. Office 365 was never the sole licensing option for Office. You can still get Office 2013 if you want a perpetual license. You can even use free cloud based versions of the software if you have a skydrive account, which is also free and platform agnosic.

Shawn



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Dustin Lawhorn
Re: Will CC Kill Off Adoption of After Effects by the Next Generation of Motion Graphics Artists?
on Oct 25, 2013 at 4:13:59 am

[Conrad Olson] "But that's the case regardless of how much the software costs. If they are going to quit because of that then they wouldn't have made it into the industry anyway."

In regards to your first point: Exactly.
In regards to the second point: Not exactly. But, I should clarify my thought. What I meant to convey is that the students that were 'somewhat interested' in those career paths are now opting to not pursue further education on their own with the current subscription model. I guess that they believe that they have a choice: either they resort to piracy or they start looking other directions--they seem to leave the option of paying for software subscriptions completely out.
Besides, concluding that they wouldn't make it into the industry because they choose to use programs that don't force subscriptions doesn't hold weight either. Who's to say what programs the industry will be using in 15 years? I'd be surprised to find AE (with the subscription model as the only option they offer) still holding the lion's share of the market.

-dl


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Shawn Miller
Re: Will CC Kill Off Adoption of After Effects by the Next Generation of Motion Graphics Artists?
on Oct 24, 2013 at 11:13:36 pm

[Chris Pettit] "[Shawn Miller] "I think AE, Cinema 4D Lite and Mocha AE are powerful enticements for those just getting into the field. "

Yeah, I reluctantly agree. If I was a new user I'd be all over it, particularly for the student price that Todd mentions.

One good argument for CC (not the mandatory part) is that it really has opened up availability to users that previously couldn't afford it. CC has in a sense democratized the software, which I think is a great thing. The problem is people like me have subsidized that democratization, and now no longer have options for how WE use the software.

Alas, as stated so many time before, WHY make it mandatory????? (rhetorical question, no need for a re-hash)

PS: a lot will depend on the education sector as well. If schools and colleges continue to have objections to the new model, they could go elsewhere for new standards to teach to."


I agree completely. :-)

Shawn



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Conrad Olson
Re: Will CC Kill Off Adoption of After Effects by the Next Generation of Motion Graphics Artists?
on Oct 24, 2013 at 11:20:07 pm

You are all making the assumption that students pay for their software. I never did while I was at university. I either used the university machines, or found 'other' ways to get the software. That's always been pretty easy for Adobe stuff, and things like FCP, and I think that makes it easier to learn.

If CC makes it harder to find 'other ways' then that might affect student uptake.

---

conradolson.com


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Chris Pettit
Re: Will CC Kill Off Adoption of After Effects by the Next Generation of Motion Graphics Artists?
on Oct 24, 2013 at 11:30:28 pm

[Conrad Olson] "If CC makes it harder to find 'other ways' then that might affect student uptake."

It hasn't.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-1009_3-57590213-83/that-was-quick-adobes-creative...


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Conrad Olson
Re: Will CC Kill Off Adoption of After Effects by the Next Generation of Motion Graphics Artists?
on Oct 24, 2013 at 11:31:20 pm

I don't think we need to worry about it then.

---

conradolson.com


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Andrew Kimery
Re: Will CC Kill Off Adoption of After Effects by the Next Generation of Motion Graphics Artists?
on Oct 24, 2013 at 11:50:55 pm

Considering how hackable the fully functioning demos are (and have been for years) I don't think Adobe ever thought CC would impact that kind of pirating. What I think it does do is impact casual/inter-office sharing of discs/downloads and serial numbers. I've stopped being surprised when I go to offices where one legit version of AE (or whatever) is up and running on multiple machines. I guess they spent too much money on the nice leather couches. lol




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Chris Pettit
Re: Will CC Kill Off Adoption of After Effects by the Next Generation of Motion Graphics Artists?
on Oct 25, 2013 at 1:52:34 am

[Andrew Kimery] "I don't think Adobe ever thought CC would impact that kind of pirating."

That's for sure. I think that CC only put a dent in pirating in the sense that a lot of people who were previously using hacked versions see little reason to continue to steal the software now that they can make monthly payments. I've seen a lot of posts from people who admit to previously illegal use, but glad to pay for CC now, and a lot of them are telling the truth. I suspect Adobe planned for that to happen. Again, I think that's another benefit of the CC model. If you can't beat them, join them.

What blows me away though is all the official 'advocates' claiming that ending pirating was a major benefit and goal to Adobe's move. That narrative was promoted for months until it became embarassingly silly to continue to advance.

And what also appalls me is all the former thieves and pirates condescending to those of us trying to secure a buyout or exit strategy through legitimate protest to Adobe policy. The shear balls of these guys talking down to opponents of mandatory CC, now that they've decided to quit stealing what I've paid for since 1997 is nothing short of breathtaking.


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Andrew Kimery
Re: Will CC Kill Off Adoption of After Effects by the Next Generation of Motion Graphics Artists?
on Oct 25, 2013 at 2:34:36 am

[Chris Pettit] "What blows me away though is all the official 'advocates' claiming that ending pirating was a major benefit and goal to Adobe's move. That narrative was promoted for months until it became embarassingly silly to continue to advance.

And what also appalls me is all the former thieves and pirates condescending to those of us trying to secure a buyout or exit strategy through legitimate protest to Adobe policy. The shear balls of these guys talking down to opponents of mandatory CC, now that they've decided to quit stealing what I've paid for since 1997 is nothing short of breathtaking."


Yeah, there certainly has been a lot of talk that causes one to do a double take.




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David Lawrence
Re: Will CC Kill Off Adoption of After Effects by the Next Generation of Motion Graphics Artists?
on Oct 25, 2013 at 4:55:31 am

[Chris Pettit] "And what also appalls me is all the former thieves and pirates condescending to those of us trying to secure a buyout or exit strategy through legitimate protest to Adobe policy. The shear balls of these guys talking down to opponents of mandatory CC, now that they've decided to quit stealing what I've paid for since 1997 is nothing short of breathtaking."

Well said, I'm tired of this new self-righteousness too. All we're asking for is a freaking choice in how we give Adobe our money and the assurance that we won't have to pay Adobe for the rest of our lives to access to our project files. It really makes me sad when Adobe's new business model generates so much unnecessary animosity among digital creatives.

_______________________
David Lawrence
art~media~design~research
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Richard Herd
Re: Will CC Kill Off Adoption of After Effects by the Next Generation of Motion Graphics Artists?
on Oct 25, 2013 at 6:55:06 pm

[Chris Pettit] "CC has in a sense democratized the software"

It has done the opposite of democratized the software. It has rented the software.

I'm not trying to bust anyone's ball(oon)s here. I think it's important to point out the difference between important words like democracy, capitalism, and rent. Making the software available for rent at a low price is definitely not democratic.

I also get the meaning that "because the software is at a low price point, it is potentially attractive to a wide audience." And I understand also how that can be a type-of connotation for democracy. But it actually isn't.

All bait and switch promotions work like this. The questions asked over and over are (a) what's the exit strategy? and (b) when will the switch happen?


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Andrew Kimery
Re: Will CC Kill Off Adoption of After Effects by the Next Generation of Motion Graphics Artists?
on Oct 25, 2013 at 8:55:09 pm

[Richard Herd] "I'm not trying to bust anyone's ball(oon)s here. I think it's important to point out the difference between important words like democracy, capitalism, and rent. Making the software available for rent at a low price is definitely not democratic.

I also get the meaning that "because the software is at a low price point, it is potentially attractive to a wide audience." And I understand also how that can be a type-of connotation for democracy. But it actually isn't."


I think you are taking the "democratized" buzz word too literally. There's nothing democratic about what any of these companies are offering other than the broad strokes notion that lowing the cost of entry gives more 'power to the people' to shoot, edit and distribute their videos. It's an analogous terms in this sense.




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Chris Pettit
Re: Will CC Kill Off Adoption of After Effects by the Next Generation of Motion Graphics Artists?
on Oct 25, 2013 at 8:58:31 pm

[Richard Herd] " I think it's important to point out the difference between important words like democracy, capitalism, and rent. Making the software available for rent at a low price is definitely not democratic. "

You're right of course, I used that word too broadly. I meant that the rental pricing puts the tools potentially within reach for students, that's all.

And of course we all know democracy is not Adobe's motivation anyway, profit is


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Todd Kopriva
Re: Will CC Kill Off Adoption of After Effects by the Next Generation of Motion Graphics Artists?
on Oct 25, 2013 at 9:16:35 pm

> And of course we all know democracy is not Adobe's motivation anyway, profit is


That's an oversimplification.

Sure, we need to get people to pay for our software in order for us to get our paychecks and feed our families, but everyone (really, everyone) with whom I work does this job because we want to help people to communicate and make art. As many people as possible. If we wanted to make as much money as possible, we'd be doing different jobs. (Finance pays a lot better than testing and designing software.)

I've talked before about how I like the new Creative Cloud model because it 1) gets more people to use the software because the barrier to entry is lower and 2) because the subscription model changes the way that we can deliver and talk about features (rapidly and openly now).

Regarding #1, more people using the software: I can't share exact numbers publicly, but I can say that far, far more people are using After Effects now than were using it before Creative Cloud. That is what I interpreted by the use of "democratize" earlier in this thread... and it is very much happening.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Todd Kopriva, Adobe Systems Incorporated
After Effects quality engineering
After Effects team blog
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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Conrad Olson
Re: Will CC Kill Off Adoption of After Effects by the Next Generation of Motion Graphics Artists?
on Oct 25, 2013 at 9:21:41 pm

[Todd Kopriva] " If we wanted to make as much money as possible, we'd be doing different jobs. "

As a visual effects artist I know exactly what you mean :)

---

conradolson.com


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Chris Pettit
Re: Will CC Kill Off Adoption of After Effects by the Next Generation of Motion Graphics Artists?
on Oct 25, 2013 at 9:39:46 pm

[Todd Kopriva] "That's an oversimplification."

I'm batting about 0 today in the use of specific words. First 'democratize', then 'profit'. I'm getting it from both ends. I didn't mean to be sloppy with words.

That said, I draw a very big distinction between people like you Todd and your executives. I know how dedicated you and your team are, and it really is appreciated, more than you know. And as I posted before, I agree about the tools being used more people, and that is a great thing.

But Adobe as a corporation is motivated by the same thing as every other corporation, expanding market share, protecting profits. That is a very different thing than the paycheck you guys so richly deserve.


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Andrew Kimery
Re: Will CC Kill Off Adoption of After Effects by the Next Generation of Motion Graphics Artists?
on Oct 25, 2013 at 10:45:41 pm

[Chris Pettit] "I'm batting about 0 today in the use of specific words. First 'democratize', then 'profit'. I'm getting it from both ends. I didn't mean to be sloppy with words."

October 25th, National Beat Up on Chris Day! ;)




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Walter Soyka
Re: Will CC Kill Off Adoption of After Effects by the Next Generation of Motion Graphics Artists?
on Oct 25, 2013 at 2:16:13 pm

[Scott Clements] "I am wondering what the next generation of young motion graphics artists will be using to learn their craft in their bedrooms. I think CC will make it very difficult for them to get off the ground with After Effects."

Like a few of the other posters, I think the new pricing could be attractive to new users. I know when I was starting out, $50 monthly would have been a lot more affordable than the thousands of dollars upfront I spent to buy my licenses.

As an aside, I'm curious if there's any generational difference on subscription pricing. With a new generation growing up on services like Netflix and Spotify, maybe CC won't seem so alien.


[Scott Clements] " I also wonder if CC is going to kill off the massive After Effects culture out there, with free tutorials left, right and centre."

I'm don't think it would -- CC lowers the barrier to entry. If anything, I think CC has the ability to put After Effects in more users' hands, growing the community even more.


[Scott Clements] "I was actually starting to wonder if this might be a good thing for Apple Motion?"

I'm sure a few more people are looking at Motion. This forum is evidence of that. Motion is a nice application, and its integration with FCPX makes it a really compelling option, especially for editors invested in the Apple ecosystem.

Motion's realtime "moving scratchpad" philosophy is great, but I think it was designed to solve different problems than Ae was. I used to use Motion quite a bit, and I could do most of my work today with it -- but I wouldn't want to. Ae's toolset is a much better fit for my needs.

This is also not to say that Ae is better in every way; rather, it has different weaknesses. Ae is not real-time. Ae does not have intuitive behaviors. Ae does not have rigging and publishing. As project complexity increases, though, I think these disadvantages become less significant.

It's more than just inertia that has put Ae where it is today. Workflow is everything. Ae's own broad first-party capabilities, broad third-party support, compatibility with Windows and OS X, and extensive expression and scripting features make it not just an application, but practically a platform in and of itself, able to be molded to the needs of any particular workflow.

I'm not sure Apple intends for Motion to compete with Ae in these areas. I think that if Apple were to develop Motion to compete with Ae here, they would have to give up a lot of the speed and simplicity that made Motion unique and special in the first place.

To be perfectly clear, I am not saying you can't do good or involved work with Motion; I am saying that, by design, Motion doesn't cope with complexity as well as After Effects does. I have said elsewhere that I consider Motion to have a high floor and a low ceiling. I can see that it would be easier to get from 0 to 80% on a comp in Motion, but I think it's harder to get from 80 to 100%.

Taking another example: Blender is very good, Blender is open and Blender is free, but it's not even making a dent in the production niches for Maya, Max, Houdini, or C4D. It's not enough to be very good and very cheap; you have to be able to offer a massive advantage over another product to unseat it.

When I wear my beret, I like the Ae toolset. When I wear my green eyeshades, I like the CC pricing. Both my inner artist and my inner accountant are really pleased with CC. While I understand and sympathize with David's and Chris's objections to Adobe's model, I don't think that it poses a practical threat to my livelihood, and I'd be unwilling to give up all the good stuff I've got now and move to Motion just to avoid subscription.

As long as Ae continues to enjoy real, massive production advantages over Motion, I think that its community and talent pool will continue to thrive.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Scott Clements
Re: Will CC Kill Off Adoption of After Effects by the Next Generation of Motion Graphics Artists?
on Oct 25, 2013 at 2:30:35 pm

Thanks for the very well thought out response, Walter. CC still scares me, but I see your points.

Film Editor, London UK
http://www.scottclementseditor.com


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