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Anyone used this new efx program

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Ricardo Marty
Anyone used this new efx program
on Oct 13, 2013 at 2:29:55 am

from what I read sounds very capable. can anyone compare it with AE?

http://www.sgo.es/2013/09/sgo-unleashes-mamba-fx-accelerating-compositing-t...

Ricardo Marty


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Gary Huff
Re: Anyone used this new efx program
on Oct 13, 2013 at 3:08:37 am

Nothing released now will be very comparable to AE, especially if it's new. AE is a pretty mature platform, and any new piece of software that comes along is going to have some significant gaps, probably to the point where it's not a viable substitute.

It's still a good thing, but I think we're a good couple of years away from having something that can be called a replacement.


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Oliver Peters
Re: Anyone used this new efx program
on Oct 13, 2013 at 1:23:28 pm

I'm not so sure Mamba is starting out as that immature. It's based on Mistika, whose heritage goes back to the Jaleo days.

But, if you are looking for alternative to AE, then it's [Boris] RED, Smoke, Fusion, Nuke or Motion. However, don't look for project compatibility.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Walter Soyka
Re: Anyone used this new efx program
on Oct 16, 2013 at 1:27:08 pm

Oliver mentioned Fusion -- they are announcing Fusion 7 today:

http://eyeonline.com/PreludeFusion7.html

There's some nice (single-shot) mograph work on the user-produced countdown reel.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Billy Payn
Re: Anyone used this new efx program
on Oct 13, 2013 at 3:03:13 pm

Thanks for posting this, I'm getting this and am going to learn it, perhaps it's not a replacement for AE yet, but by embracing it seeing how it does things and what it can be persuaded to do and giving feedback to the makers, we are getting closer to being able to walk away from the Adobe debacle.



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Oliver Peters
Re: Anyone used this new efx program
on Oct 13, 2013 at 3:50:45 pm

When looking for AE alternatives, you have two directions to go in - tracks or nodes. As long you don't need to exchange project material with any clients or freelancers using AE, any program, will work. If interchange with AE is important, then there are no acceptable alternatives, other than purchasing CS6.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Billy Payn
Re: Anyone used this new efx program
on Oct 13, 2013 at 7:46:12 pm

I'm thinking ahead to a time when my CS6 just doesn't cut it anymore, though I do think that's likely to be a few years, it's pretty powerful software and CS6 is the most stable incarnation yet it seems.
I've never used a nodal package though have seen them in hi end post houses I'm going to have a look, and believe the more people who do this the better.
In a way I'm lucky not to need sharing potential, I can render out and work on a clip then render it out again, just like we used to do before Adobe's integration, and sometimes since, when it's proven wobbly.
The move Adobe has made to subscription only has put them in a place where I can't see me giving them any more of my business, the trust has gone, and even though I love using the software, I now find myself hoping they will fail. Even if they suddenly backtrack and start selling perpetual licences again, I don't want to be tied to a monopoly that thinks it's ok to ride rough over a large portion of their userbase, the true colours are flying, and if they've done it once they will do it again, that's some pretty ugly karma.
C'mon competition! Show us what you've got.



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Sandeep Sajeev
Re: Anyone used this new efx program
on Oct 14, 2013 at 10:18:24 am

Mamba is a comp station. If your focus is compositing only then it's great value. But if you need to knock out Motion Graphics then it won't do any of what you're used to in AE.

If you're on a Mac the Smoke and Motion are terrific.
Smoke is a great option if your work requires both comping and mograph, while Motion 5 is a phenomenally good, tragically unappreciated Motion Graphics package.

There's a 25% discount on Smoke until the October 25th I think. Download the trial and see if you like it.


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Gary Huff
Re: Anyone used this new efx program
on Oct 14, 2013 at 12:05:18 pm

[Sandeep Sajeev] "otion 5 is a phenomenally good, tragically unappreciated Motion Graphics package."

Motion probably has the most promising outlook of combining both composting and animation, but I don't know if Apple cares enough to get it where it needs to be, especially if there's still no "Send to Motion" option in the next update of FCPX.


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Walter Soyka
Re: Anyone used this new efx program
on Oct 15, 2013 at 1:15:43 am

[Ricardo Marty] "from what I read sounds very capable. can anyone compare it with AE?"

Mamba FX is a single-shot, node-based, real-time compositor based on SGO's Mistika. Sandeep turned me on to Mamba when it was announced at IBC, so I bought in and I've been noodling with it for a few weeks.

The performance is awesome. Mamba is CUDA-accelerated. If you've got a good card, you can throw a surprising amount of computation at it and it happily blazes along in real-time.

The interface and media management conventions are not traditional. It's built from Mistika, and other than the node graph, the UI is inherited from Mistika -- and the Mistika UI is pretty unique.

I do not view Mamba as a competitor to Ae, nor do I think it can or should become one. In my workflows, Mamba would compete with Nuke for single-shot compositing because that's where its strengths lie.

Everybody goes gaga over nodes, and for some problems (like complicated compositing), nodes are the right solution, with incredible power, flexibility, and relative simplicity. However, for dynamic animation and most motion graphics, layers are actually a better solution. Why? The graph or schematic that drives the compositing flow can't really change with time; layers in a timeline can.

I agree with Sandeep that Motion is the best competitor to Ae on the market today, but it's still a pretty distant second place in my opinion.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Oliver Peters
Re: Anyone used this new efx program
on Oct 15, 2013 at 1:29:30 am

[Walter Soyka] "I do not view Mamba as a competitor to Ae, nor do I think it can or should become one. In my workflows, Mamba would compete with Nuke for single-shot compositing because that's where its strengths lie. "

I think anyone who is firmly rooted in tracks and wants a replacement for AE is really saddled with two choices: Boris RED and Smoke (Mac). There are a few others, but these fall into a similar ballpark (sort of). Although Smoke has nodes, you can also do a lot in tracks.

I tend to discount Motion in this mix, because it really bogs down once you throw a lot of high-end video at it, add a lot of effects, move it into 3D space - and then expect any sort of acceptable performance. Granted, Smoke requires rendering, but the interaction is still better. Motion is nice for motion graphics and minimal video.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Walter Soyka
Re: Anyone used this new efx program
on Oct 15, 2013 at 1:55:48 am

[Oliver Peters] "I think anyone who is firmly rooted in tracks and wants a replacement for AE is really saddled with two choices: Boris RED and Smoke (Mac). There are a few others, but these fall into a similar ballpark (sort of). Although Smoke has nodes, you can also do a lot in tracks."

Ae is a big and capable app, so how you use it probably has a lot to do with whether you view Smoke as a capable replacement or not.

I do really like Smoke -- I bought a license last year and it's been fantastic for me on a few projects with heavy editorial compositing elements -- but it doesn't compare to Ae in my opinion in key mograph areas like direct vector graphic support, text animation, particles, and third-party effect support.

I could do my next mograph piece entirely in Smoke, but I'm glad I don't have to.

I'd also rather deal with Motion's limitations than the Boris RED interface, but RED's Avid/Premiere integration is really cool.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Oliver Peters
Re: Anyone used this new efx program
on Oct 16, 2013 at 3:13:16 pm

[Walter Soyka] "I'd also rather deal with Motion's limitations"

Of course, some folks are still successfully using Shake. Motion + Shake and you have a bit of both worlds. Chocolate + peanut butter! ;-)

Joking aside, Motion is a very fast renderer compared with AE.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Shawn Miller
Re: Anyone used this new efx program
on Oct 16, 2013 at 5:06:54 pm

[Oliver Peters] "
Of course, some folks are still successfully using Shake. Motion + Shake and you have a bit of both worlds. Chocolate + peanut butter! ;-)

Joking aside, Motion is a very fast renderer compared with AE.

- Oliver"


Well to be fair, just about every modern renderer is faster than AE's. :-) I was lead to understand that Motion's render speed advantage disappeared on complex projects though... is that true? Also, does Motion allow for network rendering (just curious)?

Shawn



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Oliver Peters
Re: Anyone used this new efx program
on Oct 16, 2013 at 5:24:33 pm

AE CC uses a new cache to disk operation. If you preview a lot and then don't change parameters before you render, then that will be faster in some cases for total time. In my experience, using comparable, native filters, with a straight first pass render, Motion is a faster render on the Mac. That's largely because it takes more advantage of GPU acceleration.

Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Shawn Miller
Re: Anyone used this new efx program
on Oct 16, 2013 at 8:38:28 pm

[Oliver Peters] "

AE CC uses a new cache to disk operation. If you preview a lot and then don't change parameters before you render, then that will be faster in some cases for total time. In my experience, using comparable, native filters, with a straight first pass render, Motion is a faster render on the Mac. That's largely because it takes more advantage of GPU acceleration."


Absolutely, AECC's caching system is a welcomed addition... though I don't benefit from it on final render because I tend to make changes up until the very end, that's why I still use network rendering for anything that takes more than a few minutes per frame to render. I was wondering if Motion also has a network render capability... if not, can frames be split up via Compressor?

Shawn



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