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Bob Zelin
you can't make this stuff up !
on Oct 3, 2013 at 9:56:46 pm

http://forums.creativecow.net/readpost/335/59048

Bob Zelin
Rescue 1, Inc.
maxavid@cfl.rr.com


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Shane Ross
Re: you can't make this stuff up !
on Oct 3, 2013 at 10:08:38 pm

Certainly makes me think twice about subscribing. Funny thing is, I TRIED to subscribe (finally caving because of a couple projects it would be perfect for)...but my payment never was processed...the web site wouldn't do it, two reps couldn't do it. The bank stated that no attempts were made, so that gave me pause in subscribing...what if a payment tried to go through but never made it?

And then this...another reason to look at this release sideways.

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Oliver Peters
Re: you can't make this stuff up !
on Oct 3, 2013 at 10:12:42 pm

Your account would still have been compromised if you had purchased a perpetual product from Adobe. But... I wonder if the subscription model encouraged these crooks.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Oliver Peters
Re: you can't make this stuff up !
on Oct 3, 2013 at 10:16:05 pm

[Shane Ross] "Certainly makes me think twice about subscribing."

Your account would still have been compromised with a perpetual product from Adobe, since you'd have to set up an account and use a credit card. But... I wonder if the subscription model encouraged these crooks.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Andrew Kimery
Re: you can't make this stuff up !
on Oct 3, 2013 at 10:32:40 pm

[Shane Ross] "Certainly makes me think twice about subscribing."

Cable TV, Internet, banks, credit cards, cell phone, Apple ID, payroll companies/corporate HR, Dropbox, online stores (Amazon, etc.,)... all these business and more have clients' personal and/or payment info living on servers in the cloud. This doesn't scare me away from CC anymore than car accidents keep me from driving (or riding my bike around town).

When I was at MTV Viacom's HR servers were compromised and some employee information was stolen. It happens.




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Shane Ross
Re: you can't make this stuff up !
on Oct 3, 2013 at 11:15:33 pm

Yeah...true true true. And my bank card had to be exchanged because that account was hacked as well. Happens all over. I over-reacted.

Why would hackers do this? Pissed off at the subscription? What do they care? They can hack the apps in a matter of hours and have them working without the cloud tether.

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Ryan Holmes
Re: you can't make this stuff up !
on Oct 4, 2013 at 3:49:50 am

I think the hackers were more after the intellectual property than anything else. If they can get their hands on the source code of Acrobat, Flash, Coldfusion, etc then they can figure out how to exploit the apps for far more information than some encrypted credit card numbers. The credit card information is small potatoes compared to intellectual source code of applications.

http://usat.ly/1fMHupb

Ryan Holmes
http://www.ryanholmes.me
@CutColorPost


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Rainer Schubert
Re: you can't make this stuff up !
on Oct 4, 2013 at 7:04:18 pm

Very true.
And a big risk.
Fast delivered updates and more...


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Chris Pettit
Re: you can't make this stuff up !
on Oct 4, 2013 at 7:46:54 pm

[Ryan Holmes] " If they can get their hands on the source code of Acrobat, Flash, Coldfusion, etc then they can figure out how to exploit the apps for far more information than some encrypted credit card numbers. "

I believe you're right. The following is from the New York Times, and is another indication of what the downsides can be when companies like Adobe become so big and control so much of how things get done:

One of the products that had its source code stolen is ColdFusion, which, according to Adobe, is used by the United States Senate, 75 of the Fortune 100 companies and more than 10,000 other companies worldwide.

Adobe security officials said they were not aware of any specific risks to customers. But because the source code contains the DNA of the software program, computer experts said it could allow hackers to find and exploit any other potential weaknesses in its security.


http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/04/technology/adobe-announces-security-breac...


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Rich Rubasch
Re: you can't make this stuff up !
on Oct 4, 2013 at 1:54:48 pm

But those are single purchases...hackers know that Adobe is going to routinely deduct from accounts on a regular basis, rather than my once every 2 years upgrades of the past, so the likelihood of getting info taken is greatly reduced.

Rich Rubasch
Tilt Media Inc.
Video Production, Post, Studio Sound Stage
Founder/President/Editor/Designer/Animator
http://www.tiltmedia.com


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Oliver Peters
Re: you can't make this stuff up !
on Oct 4, 2013 at 1:57:38 pm

[Rich Rubasch] ".hackers know that Adobe is going to routinely deduct from accounts on a regular basis, rather than my once every 2 years upgrades of the past"

Explain the discrepancies in numbers. Adobe does not have 2.9 million CC subscribers yet. Those compromised accounts were most likely also single purchase (or upgrade) accounts.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Rainer Schubert
Re: you can't make this stuff up !
on Oct 4, 2013 at 7:06:38 pm

...but in case of corrupted software code, it is delivered now much faster now than before.
And I´m also of the opinion, that Adobes Updates will not be as proven as before.
All the hazel on the Web forums is showing already.


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Ridley Walker
Re: you can't make this stuff up !
on Oct 4, 2013 at 12:52:19 am

Ouch!


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Ricardo Marty
Re: you can't make this stuff up !
on Oct 4, 2013 at 1:03:38 am

say ouch when they enter your system and mess with it and your project.

ricardo


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Tim Kolb
Re: you can't make this stuff up !
on Oct 4, 2013 at 3:08:59 am

[Ricardo Marty] "say ouch when they enter your system and mess with it and your project."

Yes, exactly...that's what the hackers are after...messing with your projects.

Everyone...guard your presets.

TimK,
Director, Consultant
Kolb Productions,

Adobe Certified Instructor


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Charlie Austin
Re: you can't make this stuff up !
on Oct 4, 2013 at 4:17:27 am

[Tim Kolb] "Everyone...guard your presets."

:-D

-------------------------------------------------------------


~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Ridley Walker
Re: you can't make this stuff up !
on Oct 4, 2013 at 4:43:02 am

To paraphrase Adobe's Chief Security Officer:

"One of the unfortunate realities of renting software these days is that large corporations like Adobe are unable to guard against these sorts of sophisticated cyberattacks."


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Andrew Kimery
Re: you can't make this stuff up !
on Oct 4, 2013 at 5:20:22 am

[Ridley Walker] "To paraphrase Adobe's Chief Security Officer:

"One of the unfortunate realities of renting software these days is that large corporations like Adobe are unable to guard against these sorts of sophisticated cyberattacks.""


More like:

"One of the unfortunate realities of living in a connected world these days is that all companies are vulnerable to sophisticated cyberattacks."

It's not like Adobe is the only company to get hacked and it's not like renting software is the only thing that puts your personal info out into the cloud. Hell, just having a CC or bank account means your personal and financial data is sitting out on a server somewhere.




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Jim Wiseman
Re: you can't make this stuff up !
on Oct 4, 2013 at 8:48:12 am

But the reality is that by participating in a software rental system you are required to place your information in the gun sights of people who are of a mind to bring the whole enterprise down because they have nowhere else to place their frustrations. Unfortunately, that puts everyone subscribing to the CC model in the line of fire of those totally at odds with the CC model. I'll be getting a new card number for the one I used to purchase the perpetual license for CS6. Adobe won't be getting that number, or any other from me.

If that is their primary motivation, software rental companies like Adobe could be a very risky place to register your credit cards.

Jim Wiseman
Sony PMW-EX1,Pana AJ-D810 DVCPro, DVX-100, Nikon D7000, Final Cut Studio 2 and 3, Media 100 Suite 2.1.3, Premiere Pro 5.5 and 6.0, AJA ioHD, AJA Kona LHi, Avid MC, Hexacore MacPro 3.33 Ghz 24Gb RAM GTX-285 120GB SSD, Macbook Pro 17" 2011 2.2 Ghz Quadcore i7 8Gb SSD, G5 Quadcore PCIe


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Andrew Kimery
Re: you can't make this stuff up !
on Oct 4, 2013 at 9:40:01 am

[Jim Wiseman] "But the reality is that by participating in a software rental system you are required to place your information in the gun sights of people who are of a mind to bring the whole enterprise down because they have nowhere else to place their frustrations."

And somehow Adobe is the only place on the planet, er, interwebs that is a target? No one is miffed at cable/sat companies? Credit card companies? Banks? Email providers? ISPs? Global conglomerates? Apple gets hacked. MS gets hacked. Yahoo gets hacked. Companies get hacked, people die daily in car accidents and occasionally planes fall out of the sky.

I'd much rather someone steal my CC number than someone hack my email accounts. I can always get a new CC number and I won't be held responsible for fraudulent charges but if someone takes over my email accounts and downloads and/or deletes them they'll have enough personal and financial info on me to wreck my life if they want.

Like I've said before, unless you live off the grid w/money stuffed in shoe boxes you already have a ton of personal and/or financial info floating around in the cloud. Suddenly being scared because Adobe got hacked is ridiculous.




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Dave LaRonde
Re: you can't make this stuff up !
on Oct 4, 2013 at 4:10:22 pm

[Andrew Kimery] " No one is miffed at cable/sat companies? Credit card companies? Banks? Email providers? ISPs? Global conglomerates"

Who says we're NOT? Does this mean we have no right to complain about insecure service? Do we just roll over, take it and say, "thank you"?

Dave LaRonde
Former Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Rainer Schubert
Re: you can't make this stuff up !
on Oct 4, 2013 at 7:08:50 pm

Yes, who says we´re Not? 100% agree


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Andrew Kimery
Re: you can't make this stuff up !
on Oct 4, 2013 at 7:30:49 pm

[Dave LaRonde] "Who says we're NOT? Does this mean we have no right to complain about insecure service? Do we just roll over, take it and say, "thank you"?"

Sure, complain about IT security then. All these posts talking about Adobe as the boogeyman w/it's horrible, horrible subscription policy that hangs your financial info out to dry are just ridiculous. Nothing that happened here is unique to Adobe. Adobe isn't the only company that holds peoples' data. Adobe isn't the only company that's been hacked. Adobe isn't the only company that offers a subscription service.




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Steve Connor
Re: you can't make this stuff up !
on Oct 4, 2013 at 7:37:02 pm

[Andrew Kimery] "All these posts talking about Adobe as the boogeyman w/it's horrible, horrible subscription policy that hangs your financial info out to dry are just ridiculous."

Why are they? Being forced into CC means you HAVE to give Adobe your Credit Card info to store so you can make payments. Buying with a one off payment and choosing to not let Adobe store your CC info for future use doesn't have the same risk.

Steve Connor

There's nothing we can't argue about on the FCPX COW Forum


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Andrew Kimery
Re: you can't make this stuff up !
on Oct 4, 2013 at 7:52:51 pm

[Steve Connor] "Why are they? Being forced into CC means you HAVE to give Adobe your Credit Card info to store so you can make payments. Buying with a one off payment and choosing to not let Adobe store your CC info for future use doesn't have the same risk."

Who is forced into buying CC? Adobe isn't the only company that keeps CC info on file and Adobe isn't the only company that operates a subscription business.

Dollars to donuts everyone in this thread has CC numbers (among other sensitive info) floating around in the cloud on various companies' servers. Trying to make this hack a problem unique to Adobe's business model is what I find laughable.




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Steve Connor
Re: you can't make this stuff up !
on Oct 4, 2013 at 8:00:05 pm

[Andrew Kimery] "Dollars to donuts everyone in this thread has CC numbers (among other sensitive info) floating around in the cloud on various companies' servers. Trying to make this hack a problem unique to Adobe's business model is what I find laughable."

What is laughable is Adobe's security, clearly. Make light of it all you want, defend them blindly but their inability to keep my and a couple of million other peoples data along with their own source code is a BIG issue.

Not a great advert for the CC model is it?

Steve Connor

There's nothing we can't argue about on the FCPX COW Forum


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Shawn Miller
Re: you can't make this stuff up !
on Oct 4, 2013 at 11:09:20 pm

[Steve Connor] "[Andrew Kimery] "Dollars to donuts everyone in this thread has CC numbers (among other sensitive info) floating around in the cloud on various companies' servers. Trying to make this hack a problem unique to Adobe's business model is what I find laughable."

What is laughable is Adobe's security, clearly. Make light of it all you want, defend them blindly but their inability to keep my and a couple of million other peoples data along with their own source code is a BIG issue.

Not a great advert for the CC model is it?"


I'm inclined to agree with Andrew. Big, transactional systems are always under threat of attack, and there isn't a company that processes or stores personal data or credit card information that hasn't been hacked. It's not as if a perpetual license model would have kept these hackers from attacking Adobe in the first place. Security wise, Adobe isn't a slouch by any stretch of the imagination... but hackers are smart, motivated and relentless (and sometimes state sponsored). They lose ten thousand times before they win once... but they only HAVE to win once. Adobe will patch their systems and button up their procedures... and hackers will try again, and again, and again until they breach Adobe's systems again... and you know what? The SAME thing is happening RIGHT NOW, to Apple, to Microsoft, to ING, to Piggly Wiggly and to the device you're reading this message on right now. I don't think Adobe is the security pushover you make it out to be, but I do think that you underestimate how vulnerable your personal and financial data really is out on the World Wide Web. :-)

Shawn



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Andrew Kimery
Re: you can't make this stuff up !
on Oct 4, 2013 at 11:25:05 pm

[Steve Connor] "What is laughable is Adobe's security, clearly. Make light of it all you want, defend them blindly but their inability to keep my and a couple of million other peoples data along with their own source code is a BIG issue. "

Who's defending Adobe? Not me. Adobe's security obviously failed. It has nothing to do with a subscription based business model though. And I'm more worried about the code that was stolen then the possible CC numbers. I'm on my 3rd CC number in 4 years (CC skimmers are a big problem in SoCal) and while inconvenient it's not life altering. The bank waves fraudulent charges and I get a new CC. The hardest part is redoing a dozen auto-pay accounts.

Anyway... I'm making light of the people that are illogically slamming Adobe while ignoring every other company out there that houses user info on Internet connected servers and/or has a subscription based business model. People like to dog pile on Adobe in this forum, I get it. I'm just foolishly trying to curb the insanity.




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Jim Wiseman
Re: you can't make this stuff up !
on Oct 4, 2013 at 8:00:31 pm

I'm not laughing.

Jim Wiseman
Sony PMW-EX1,Pana AJ-D810 DVCPro, DVX-100, Nikon D7000, Final Cut Studio 2 and 3, Media 100 Suite 2.1.3, Premiere Pro 5.5 and 6.0, AJA ioHD, AJA Kona LHi, Avid MC, Hexacore MacPro 3.33 Ghz 24Gb RAM GTX-285 120GB SSD, Macbook Pro 17" 2011 2.2 Ghz Quadcore i7 8Gb SSD, G5 Quadcore PCIe


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Steve Connor
Re: you can't make this stuff up !
on Oct 4, 2013 at 8:14:42 pm

Before I cancel my CC subscription can anyone from Adobe tell me if you can buy a years CC subscription for one upfront cost without Adobe storing my credit card information on their leaky servers.

It may be the only way I will continue using the service.

Steve Connor

There's nothing we can't argue about on the FCPX COW Forum


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Rainer Schubert
Re: you can't make this stuff up !
on Oct 4, 2013 at 8:17:15 pm

I just don´t want to help Adobe, but I want to help you:
So, I think you can buy it via Amazon (have a look to the Star rating there compared to Adobe - LOL?)


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Tim Kolb
Re: you can't make this stuff up !
on Oct 4, 2013 at 9:42:32 pm

[Rainer Schubert] "So, I think you can buy it via Amazon (have a look to the Star rating there compared to Adobe - LOL?)"

Amazon was just hacked in August.

The "pay for a year up front" system would definitely make things easier for many...not sure why the option doesn't exist.

TimK,
Director, Consultant
Kolb Productions,

Adobe Certified Instructor


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Rainer Schubert
Re: you can't make this stuff up !
on Oct 4, 2013 at 11:31:52 pm

Yes, You are right Amazon was also attacked... Didn´t they use the same infrastructure as Adobe (don´t know exactly, but I think so).
So no way to pay Adobe secure.
But I wouldn´t also never give my credit card data to Adobe again.
Had to change it today (got that nice mail from this "company" today. Very amused about all the hazel.
The first abuses are known if we can trust the Adobe Forums.


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Jim Wiseman
Re: you can't make this stuff up !
on Oct 4, 2013 at 7:40:43 pm

Well, Adobe has infuriated more people for longer than any other company over subscription with no exit. This security debacle is just the exclamation point. They even stole major chunks of program source code. Just think of the damage hackers can do with that. Wake up people. If you follow insider stock sales, you know how their executives feel about it. See Rainer's link below.

Jim Wiseman
Sony PMW-EX1,Pana AJ-D810 DVCPro, DVX-100, Nikon D7000, Final Cut Studio 2 and 3, Media 100 Suite 2.1.3, Premiere Pro 5.5 and 6.0, AJA ioHD, AJA Kona LHi, Avid MC, Hexacore MacPro 3.33 Ghz 24Gb RAM GTX-285 120GB SSD, Macbook Pro 17" 2011 2.2 Ghz Quadcore i7 8Gb SSD, G5 Quadcore PCIe


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Tim Kolb
Re: you can't make this stuff up !
on Oct 4, 2013 at 12:00:12 pm

[Ridley Walker] "To paraphrase Adobe's Chief Security Officer:

"One of the unfortunate realities of renting software these days is that large corporations like Adobe are unable to guard against these sorts of sophisticated cyberattacks.""


um yeah...that's a paraphrase of what now?

Obviously everyone will now make this about renting software, but I have to buy (not rent) console video games for my teenage son...and how many times have those networks been hacked? Obviously having an iPhone or iPad is a proven security risk...

Every time I order something from any equipment dealer or eBay or Amazon (all purchased, not rented), I'm transmitting my credit info and it has the potential to be stolen...

Obviously, Adobe probably couldn't think of a worse time to have this happen...but the software has been downloadable for years now, and we had to use our credit cards before to buy a perpetual license as well.

Customers getting on Adobe's case for letting their info get hacked is completely warranted, but implying this is part and parcel of subscription licensing vs perpetual licensing instead of just plain, old fashioned, embarrassing, corporate IT vulnerability that needs to be addressed, is really spinning it.

TimK,
Director, Consultant
Kolb Productions,

Adobe Certified Instructor


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Ridley Walker
Re: you can't make this stuff up !
on Oct 4, 2013 at 1:40:41 pm

[Tim Kolb] "um yeah...that's a paraphrase of what now?
"


Adobe's Blog states:

"Cyber attacks are one of the unfortunate realities of doing business today. Given the profile and widespread use of many of our products, Adobe has attracted increasing attention from cyber attackers. Very recently, Adobe’s security team discovered sophisticated attacks on our network, involving the illegal access of customer information as well as source code for numerous Adobe products. We believe these attacks may be related."

From this source:

http://blogs.adobe.com/conversations/2013/10/important-customer-security-an...


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Tim Kolb
Re: you can't make this stuff up !
on Oct 4, 2013 at 2:01:42 pm

[Ridley Walker] "Adobe's Blog states:

"Cyber attacks are one of the unfortunate realities of doing business today. Given the profile and widespread use of many of our products, Adobe has attracted increasing attention from cyber attackers. Very recently, Adobe’s security team discovered sophisticated attacks on our network, involving the illegal access of customer information as well as source code for numerous Adobe products. We believe these attacks may be related.""


OK...but how exactly do you "paraphrase" that to how renting software has caused Adobe's vulnerability? Ineffective corporate IT security is undoubtedly an issue no matter how the software is licensed...my son doesn't rent his Xbox games...but that was hacked in May.

The subscription arrangement...and the exposure of credit information...connecting the two in this case is convenient for some...but the implication of cause and effect ignores countless other cases of corporate hacking on companies who don't rent software.

TimK,
Director, Consultant
Kolb Productions,

Adobe Certified Instructor


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Jim Wiseman
Re: you can't make this stuff up !
on Oct 4, 2013 at 5:28:22 pm

All of this discussion that other companies have been hacked does not change the fact that in order to subscribe to CC one is FORCED to have current credit card and personal information on file constantly. The rental model requires it. Adobe has not exactly shown competence to protect that information with this debacle. Ask 2.9 million people who should be at least changing passwords today. I'm even changing the credit card I used to purchase (ahh, that wonderful word) my Adobe software. I also had to change a dozen or so other passwords yesterday, as I use a complicated password I can remember for several accounts, including email, vendors, and others. Does not inspire confidence just to say it has happened to others.

You can't make this stuff up, indeed...

Jim Wiseman
Sony PMW-EX1,Pana AJ-D810 DVCPro, DVX-100, Nikon D7000, Final Cut Studio 2 and 3, Media 100 Suite 2.1.3, Premiere Pro 5.5 and 6.0, AJA ioHD, AJA Kona LHi, Avid MC, Hexacore MacPro 3.33 Ghz 24Gb RAM GTX-285 120GB SSD, Macbook Pro 17" 2011 2.2 Ghz Quadcore i7 8Gb SSD, G5 Quadcore PCIe


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Steve Connor
Re: you can't make this stuff up !
on Oct 4, 2013 at 7:33:40 pm

So how does Adobe plan to stop this happening again?, passwords and user data are one thing, access to our credit card info is another.

The fact it happens to other companies is no excuse.

Steve Connor

There's nothing we can't argue about on the FCPX COW Forum


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Andrew Kimery
Re: you can't make this stuff up !
on Oct 4, 2013 at 7:45:01 pm

[Jim Wiseman] "I also had to change a dozen or so other passwords yesterday, as I use a complicated password I can remember for several accounts, including email, vendors, and others. Does not inspire confidence just to say it has happened to others."

I'm not saying it to inspire confidence. I'm saying it because it's the reality of the connected world we choose to live in. I get that people like dumping on Adobe in this forum but some things are just ridiculous. A couple of years ago Sony got hacked, 77 million PSN users' data was exposed and the PSN service was shut down for nearly a month. It sucks. It happens. It is nothing unique to Adobe or subscription services.

I don't understand the "damnit Adobe and your making users keep a CC on file policies" when many other companies have the exact same info (if not more info) sitting on their Internet-connected serves.




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Ridley Walker
Re: you can't make this stuff up !
on Oct 4, 2013 at 8:51:55 pm

I suppose we can argue for aeons precisely which is the proximate cause.

Adobe holding on to our info? The cloud?
The cyber attack?
The company's inability to defend against the hackers and protect customer information?
Customers who trust that they can do so?

Its complicated.

Nonetheless, Adobe's position (like many other companies we do business with) seemed to be "trust us with your data, we'll keep it secure".

Its not unusual now that this just isn't the case. Yes as has been pointed out, others have been hacked with more far reaching consequences and higher numbers of customers compromised.

For me this is one more reason not to have faith in CC. Its risky. For many the risks are worth it. I'm not dumping on Adobe. I do find it amusing that the Chief Security Officer seems to say "darn it, s**t happens" get used to it.


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Al Bergstein
Re: you can't make this stuff up !
on Oct 30, 2013 at 12:33:50 pm

The subscription model is not the problem, the problem is storing my personal data and project data in the cloud when a supposed "security officer" (who likely will be forced out of his job in the next six months over this) tells me he can't protect his company and my assets. More local hard drives and off site storage!

Al


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