FORUMS: list search recent posts

Introducing the Photoshop Photography Program

COW Forums : Adobe Creative Cloud Debate

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
Todd Kopriva
Introducing the Photoshop Photography Program
on Sep 4, 2013 at 5:30:38 pm

The link below is to an announcement that I think shows that we are listening to feedback and finding ways to serve folks who were not well served by the initial offerings for Creative Cloud. Keep the feedback coming, so that we know how to adjust. Changes don't happen immediately with a large company, but we will make changes when we've gotten lots of feedback and have had some time to work through the possibilities.

http://blogs.adobe.com/creativelayer/introducing-the-photoshop-photography-...

"Since introducing Photoshop CC, we’ve listened to feedback from a spectrum of our customers, from advanced professionals to casual enthusiasts. One common request was a solution specifically tailored for photographers. We listened, and at Photoshop World we’re announcing a special offer for our loyal Photoshop customers. Beginning today, customers who own Photoshop CS3 or higher are eligible for a special Creative Cloud membership offer that includes all of the following for just $9.99/month:

- Photoshop CC
- Lightroom 5
- 20 GB of online storage
- Behance ProSite
- Access to Creative Cloud Learn’s training resources
- Ongoing upgrades and updates

To be clear, $9.99 is not an introductory price. It is the price for those of you who sign up by December 31, 2013. This offer will be available at the same time we introduce the new version of Lightroom 5.2 in a couple weeks."

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Todd Kopriva, Adobe Systems Incorporated
After Effects quality engineering
After Effects team blog
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Return to posts index

Mike Parfit
Re: Introducing the Photoshop Photography Program
on Sep 4, 2013 at 6:50:58 pm

Hi, Todd,

This is very appealing. Very.

However, it still does not provide a solution to why I think many of us react negatively to Adobe's effort to lock us into a subscription system.

It's the lock. It's not just about dollar amounts, though an offer like this is much more attractive than the whole Creative Cloud because it feels less risky. To me it's all about subservience.

As so many have said, the subscription system changes the fundamental relationship between the independent creative person or team and Adobe by depriving us of choice. When we "own" the software, our choices feel open-ended. We can stay in the Adobe camp, or we can move on. And when we own, if we chose to move on, the past work we have done remains intact and malleable if we need to revise it or revisit it. And that's what the creative side of one's personality demands. (How many of us have some unfinished or unrealized favourite project we can't wait to tweak a bit when we retire?)

The present subscription model makes us much more subservient to Adobe. Choice is diminished. It feels like the Creative Constraint. We've spent the money, but years later we're in the same place we were the day we signed up. We're locked in. We're at the mercy of a capricious price change or Apple-like top-down forced innovation, because we can't vote with our feet and move without losing tools that give us access to our past work (libraries organized in Lightroom, for instance, or, of course, project files in Premiere).

Yeah, maybe this is mostly perception. But why are so many of us independent in the first place -- in some form even if just through a prickly personality that provides elbow-room in the corporate enclosure? Because of the perception of freedom. We hunger for it. We fight for it. We know it is imperfect but we think it matters.

As artists in one form or another, so many of us tend to cling to bits and pieces of independence because it gives us that sense -- some say illusion -- of freedom. The kind of work we do requires that perception of independence because the creative beast thrives best when its pastures are unfenced. We demand the ability to explore, to experiment, or to say no. God knows we exercise that right very seldom because of the realities of making a living, but we hang on to any vestiges of freedom that we can because, well, freedom matters.

Adobe is demanding, fundamentally, that we give up some of our freedom. That's why some reactions are intense. If Adobe is set on this complete subscription-only service, without some way out (like a lease-purchase system, say, which has worked pretty well in the car-sales business), then our instincts tell us that you want to lock us in because of what you want your own freedom to do later -- like dramatically raising the rent or going out of business -- and we are unwilling to give up our freedom on behalf of yours.

For my part, I seem quite willing to avoid something like this that is appealing financially but promises future constraints. I've done that -- sometimes foolishly -- again and again in a career of trying to maintain independence, and have often wondered why, because there are plenty of costs in that attitude. I honestly believe it is because of something intangible that has great power: that sense of freedom.

Cheers,

Mike

http://www.thewhalemovie.com


Return to posts index

Morten Ranmar
Re: Introducing the Photoshop Photography Program
on Sep 4, 2013 at 8:23:36 pm

To be fair to Adobe, the Photoshop file format is an open standard, and backward compatible.

NOW LET US HAVE A VIDEOGRAPHERS PROGRAM with at least; Pr, Ae, and Au...

- No Parking Production -

2 x Finalcut Studio3, 2 x Prod. bundle CS6, 2 x MacPro, 2 x ioHD, Ethernet File Server w. X-Raid.... and FCPX on trial


Return to posts index


Eric Michael Cap
Re: Introducing the Photoshop Photography Program
on Sep 4, 2013 at 8:43:32 pm

I too would like to see "Creative Cloud for Videographers" i.e. Production Premium @ a reduced rate with Premiere, After Effects, Photoshop, Audition, SpeedGrade, Prelude, AME etc., plus Lightroom & Muse replacing Flash & Illustrator. $30/month incl. 20G Cloud Storage + Behance Prosite seems fair.



Return to posts index

Aindreas Gallagher
Re: Introducing the Photoshop Photography Program
on Sep 4, 2013 at 9:16:21 pm

[Eric Michael Cap] "like to see "Creative Cloud for Videographers" i.e. Production Premium @ a reduced rate with Premiere, After Effects, Photoshop, Audition, SpeedGrade, Prelude, AME etc., plus Lightroom & Muse replacing Flash & Illustrator. $30/month incl. 20G Cloud Storage + Behance Prosite seems fair."

never going to happen unless there is withheld subscription base adobe testicular restriction difficulties. So - it would be great if that happened.
because then we might get the above.

http://adobe2014.tumblr.com/

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


Return to posts index

Eric Michael Cap
Re: Introducing the Photoshop Photography Program
on Sep 5, 2013 at 2:42:39 am

"O ye of little faith" Aindreas. I'm hopeful Adobe will provide a more compelling subscription plan for Video Professionals with a price reduction & perhaps a buy-out option @ IBC, but we'll see. Cheers!



Return to posts index


Chris Pettit
Re: Introducing the Photoshop Photography Program
on Sep 5, 2013 at 3:24:15 am

[Eric Michael Cap] " I'm hopeful Adobe will provide a more compelling subscription plan for Video Professionals with a price reduction & perhaps a buy-out option"

I'd like to remain hopeful as well. But I must say while a 'Video Pro' option may be possible, I've lost hope that a buyout is EVER going to happen without extreme market forces involved.

It would seem that the only way Adobe provides an off-ramp is if enough people flat out refuse to subscribe, as Aindreas suggests. I really wish we could just work with Adobe to find a solution, but I don't believe in their management team at all, (notable exceptions to Todd and others at the development team at Adobe).

I wish it wasn't true, but I'm finding very little reason to believe that an exit strategy will be forthcoming unless market disaster is forced on Adobe.

Make careful subscription decisions everyone...


Return to posts index

Paul Neumann
Re: Introducing the Photoshop Photography Program
on Sep 4, 2013 at 9:28:48 pm

In any given week I will use Bridge, Prelude, Story, PS, AI, ID, AE, PPRO, Audition, Speed Grade, Lightroom, Media Encoder and Acrobat Pro. And now I'm getting going with Muse. How much for all that?


Return to posts index

Aindreas Gallagher
Re: Introducing the Photoshop Photography Program
on Sep 4, 2013 at 9:47:16 pm

[Paul Neumann] "given week I will use Bridge, Prelude, Story, PS, AI, ID, AE, PPRO, Audition, Speed Grade, Lightroom, Media Encoder and Acrobat Pro. And now I'm getting going with Muse."

excellent well done - you're a class of a mozart - and yes, you pay the current price.

Also bridge? Who uses bridge? that is the worst piece of crud in human history. Its some schonky under the hood flash/air runtime something.
It's crud. I don't know a soul with taste who would touch it. I think if you check, utility for starring items aside, its godawful.

carry on.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


Return to posts index


Paul Neumann
Re: Introducing the Photoshop Photography Program
on Sep 4, 2013 at 10:40:14 pm

Aw now Bridge is damn handy when you've got a set of 300 .pdf icons that are used over and over and needed in many different projects. There's a lot of time saving things you can do in there when it comes to previewing effects and quick color corrections of images. Plus it's got a great style sheet creator.

I'm happy with the subscription model for the record. If they want to keep lowering the price than I'm for that too. For me personally, it's just the cost of doing business.

The point I was trying to make was that I'd be hard pressed to choose just a few apps to get a $9.95 price point like they do for the photogs.

I'd be curious to see what video bundle would look like now in comparison to the old Production Premium (which I OWN and have since its inception).


Return to posts index

Aindreas Gallagher
Re: Introducing the Photoshop Photography Program
on Sep 4, 2013 at 11:19:43 pm

[Paul Neumann] "I'm happy with the subscription model for the record."

Fine - personally? I'm not willing to adopt a rental only access model for prior works in perpetuity. There is absolutely no way I'm doing that.
For the record - I think anyone would be completely out of their minds to go along with that proposition.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


Return to posts index

Paul Neumann
Re: Introducing the Photoshop Photography Program
on Sep 5, 2013 at 12:31:37 am

Cool then, call me crazy. I'll gladly take a lower price though for the record.


Return to posts index


Tim Kolb
Re: Introducing the Photoshop Photography Program
on Sep 6, 2013 at 3:23:46 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "I'm not willing to adopt a rental only access model for prior works in perpetuity. There is absolutely no way I'm doing that.
For the record - I think anyone would be completely out of their minds to go along with that proposition."


Therein lies the problem.

You assume that everyone on the entire planet has exactly the same circumstances as you do and therefore this model works for nobody and those that adopt it do so against reason.

I'd say we're far enough past the initial shock to be able to say that it's working for some people...and that Adobe has been making a clear effort to deliver on their rolling update plans.

There are people who have started to migrate to other software...there are those who have pledged to ride CS6 until it sinks beneath the waves...customers have options. If enough people exercise their options, businesses take notice and consider how to better address customer concerns.

TimK,
Director, Consultant
Kolb Productions,

Adobe Certified Instructor


Return to posts index

Joseph W. Bourke
Re: Introducing the Photoshop Photography Program
on Sep 5, 2013 at 2:06:11 am

Wow - Aindreas - that's some in-depth review of Bridge! I've been using it for years, many of them to manage tens of thousands of broadcast assets at a television facility. It's not a matter of taste - it's a matter of know-how...

Joe Bourke
Owner/Creative Director
Bourke Media
http://www.bourkemedia.com


Return to posts index

Eric Michael Cap
Re: Introducing the Photoshop Photography Program
on Sep 5, 2013 at 2:34:48 am

As per Joseph's comments: http://library.creativecow.net/bourke_joseph/magazine_27-Adobe-Bridge/1

Also a very useful tool for batch renaming files, resizing stills via PS image processor & exporting.



Return to posts index


Chris Pettit
Re: Introducing the Photoshop Photography Program
on Sep 5, 2013 at 4:13:49 am

Hmmm..... Here we go again Joseph.

Paul Neumann parachutes in to belittle and bicker with people who have problems with mandatory CC, and behold: here you are again defending his posts. And then I assume your will repeat how your are 'on the fence', right?

I have no horse in the race with Bridge, don't use it. But what gives with you two?


Return to posts index

Paul Neumann
Re: Introducing the Photoshop Photography Program
on Sep 5, 2013 at 11:55:29 am

So sorry Chris! Not sure who I belittled here, but let me pass along my apologies to them as well. As far as "parachuting" in I've stayed away from this discussion for a while as the "debate" part seems pretty slanted, but I saw the Photography Offer as legitimate news on the CC Front as opposed to the same old same old.


Return to posts index

Joseph W. Bourke
Re: Introducing the Photoshop Photography Program
on Sep 5, 2013 at 12:33:02 pm

Sorry Chris - I didn't realize you were in charge here. I don't appreciate your condescending attitude; I was merely stating my opinion and my extensive experience with Bridge. Not that I have any need to explain my position...

Joe Bourke
Owner/Creative Director
Bourke Media
http://www.bourkemedia.com


Return to posts index


Chris Pettit
Re: Introducing the Photoshop Photography Program
on Sep 5, 2013 at 1:48:49 pm

Joseph you have selective outrage. I've seen a number of times and said nothing. This time I called you on it.

Weeks ago, Lance dropped by to call people sissy's, crybabys and all kinds of rude things, not a word from you. But you commented on how you agreed with his assessment of software.

But somebody dares to comment negatively regarding bridge of all things and we hear from you? please


Return to posts index

Joseph W. Bourke
@ Chris
on Sep 5, 2013 at 5:43:07 pm

So Chris - why don't you just pre-empt me altogether and write my comments for me? I weigh in where I choose to weigh in, and I felt that Bridge deserved a better shake. No more, no less. I'm actually working in this field, so there are going to be days and maybe even weeks where you won't have to put up with my posts at all. And if you consider my comment on Bridge as outrage - you might want to consider some anger management training...

Joe Bourke
Owner/Creative Director
Bourke Media
http://www.bourkemedia.com


Return to posts index

Chris Pettit
Re: @ Chris
on Sep 5, 2013 at 6:20:05 pm

The anger management crack is a bit much coming from someone who gets in to these scrapes with fairly regular frequency with other people.

You have numerous times dropped in to discussions to admonish people for either real or perceived bad behavior, and that includes me on a previous occasion (the last time I did this). My point was that I assumed originally that you did so with equal balance between the 2 sides of this particular debate, I no longer feel that way.

But I concede I have again (second time in 4 months) started a discussion I probably shouldn't have. I should probably resist posting at the end of a long workday. I know better than to engage endlessly with someone who simply sees the world, and this debate differently than I do. From that perspective I apologize.


Return to posts index

Aindreas Gallagher
Re: @ Chris
on Sep 6, 2013 at 6:44:49 pm

will ye both shake hands for god's sake. We're only on here for the rant.

Also - I care not I tell you: bridge is crud, I care not how useful it is, its just janky bloody software. I watched a whole hour on its various wonderments - I don't care.

Its slow to load and its an awful place to be. Its some of the worst janky software stuff adobe has. I wouldn't dirty my shoes.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


Return to posts index

Aindreas Gallagher
Re: Introducing the Photoshop Photography Program
on Sep 4, 2013 at 9:09:51 pm

God but you have been telegraphing that you were scared of photography for months. I will hazard that adobe have absolutely no intentions of moving an inch further unless subscription numbers get genuinely disturbing. I rather hope they do.

We want some kind of off ramp - you are refusing it, we want the prior sub tier offerings - you are refusing it.

About the only crowd you are properly scared of is the immensely deep photoshop crowd apparently.

I was CS6 paid up, and I could have had the first year for buttons until the turn of the month.
You are not getting a dime until you figure out a way to make this work - and please Todd don't go on that line where you're serving more AE customers than you've ever had before. Absolutely no one believes it.

Also, apparently, you are getting push back on your large scale corporate deals as well. I've had two sizable fixtures, one with an australian boss, say at a happily communicated low level, that they are holding off until well later in the year because of "financial licensing" issues.

I do wonder if that breaks past the brick wall Q4 adoption deadline?

http://adobe2014.tumblr.com/

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


Return to posts index

Mike Parfit
Re: Introducing the Photoshop Photography Program
on Sep 4, 2013 at 10:05:45 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "We want some kind of off ramp - you are refusing it, we want the prior sub tier offerings - you are refusing it."

Why not the damn cell-phone model?

Leave the present one-price system for those who like it, but add an a la carte, three-year contract, $20/month for 2 major programs of our choice plus two secondary; $30 for 5, $70 for 10, etc., and we get our off-ramp with a permanent copy of our self-selected suites at the end of the 3 years should we choose not to renew. Plus if we want to quit earlier we have a lump-sum payout to close out our contracts. For a two-year contract we pay more per month. The customer's safe from price increases and gets the off-ramp, but Adobe gets guaranteed years.

These things and more interesting ideas have all been suggested before. But the company that sold us all on its responsiveness to customer needs when it came to software design has been eroding that promise by stonewalling on its simplistic pricing model. This new photographer's thing shows some flexibility, but not on the core problem.

Come on, Adobe. This is not something airy about social responsibility, or even ethics. It's about maintaining any financial relationship with the very people you claim to be writing these programs for, those aggravating, idiosyncratic, temperamental, driven, independent people who willingly enslave themselves only to trying to be creative. Meaning all those early adopters who still love your products but are out there on the Internet right now searching for, and often buying, alternatives -- thus eroding your present dominance.

Mike

http://www.thewhalemovie.com


Return to posts index

Rainer Schubert
Re: Introducing the Photoshop Photography Program
on Sep 4, 2013 at 9:35:53 pm

More a sign that Adobe is NOT listening to all the needs of it´s customers, or?

That doesn´t adress any of my (and many others) concerns.
Price is one of the last lacks I´m thinking about.
(Would have payed double the price of your CashCow BS if there is a buy-out or any serious solution for my archive)
And btw: There is NO given guaranty for prices in future.
May be, you will decide to change the .psd Format into incompatibility and double the prices sometimes in the future.
Seems more, that Adobe looses customers. More than thought.
(I know so many Enthusiasts, who turned you their back)
Seems more, you do not get enough Cloudies (to tell Wall Street you where successful).

"Keep the feedback coming, so that we know how to adjust" ?????????????
Have a look to the web and you will have feedback, you can read the next years.

I won´t subscribe even if your CashCow is at 1 $ a year.
Loosing archive is absolutely not acceptable.


Return to posts index

Chris Pettit
Re: Introducing the Photoshop Photography Program
on Sep 4, 2013 at 10:50:52 pm

Thanks Todd for posting this.

One thing really jumps out at me:

If this is a solution derived to answer complaints from a specific market segment (photographers), and that solution is designed to solve the problem and make everyone happy:

Why does it expire on Dec 31st? If this is really answering the feedback, how could it possibly expire??


Return to posts index

Ricardo Marty
Re: Introducing the Photoshop Photography Program
on Sep 5, 2013 at 2:41:05 am

Dont tell Todd that we all know that adobe is just trying to rack up numbers to show wall street that it knows its business. They will do this even if they have to give it away for free.

Ricardo


Return to posts index

Florian Sepp
Re: Introducing the Photoshop Photography Program
on Sep 5, 2013 at 9:35:37 am

Hi Tod,

as you asked for feed back (I am quite frustrated and half way throu with adobe)

It is not about the price (ripping of foreign customers... well that is just unfriendly)
It is about:

- not being able to edit work after subscription (not just open. I want the whole software)

- not beeing able to archive older versions to enshure plugin compatibility and differences in render look (and you drop programs once in a while)

- customer service (looking at you facebook page I do not dare to make a renting contract with you..... not be able to cancel subscription on you website...bad canceling fee ... bad)

I have cinema 4d from maxon under MSA... and that is ok. I own the software and I can leave without loosing access to my work.

but must of that was mentioned a trillion times in the net. so If you realy want to listen.... easy.

besides that nothing ment personal as I dont think it is your desicion where things go.

best ragards
Florian

Florian Sepp visual arts
http://www.floriansepp.com


Return to posts index

Gary Huff
Re: Introducing the Photoshop Photography Program
on Sep 5, 2013 at 1:18:00 pm

[Florian Sepp] "- not beeing able to archive older versions to enshure plugin compatibility and differences in render look (and you drop programs once in a while)"

And around and around we go.

That's not a problem. The Adobe Application Manager does not force you to install updates or new software. And you get an archive going back to CS6.

Now how that's going to work considering that it's all "CC" now (will it be "CC2"?) is anyone's guess (in case you like CC, but CC2 breaks your workflow or something).


Return to posts index

Florian Sepp
Re: Introducing the Photoshop Photography Program
on Sep 5, 2013 at 1:39:36 pm

[Gary Huff] "That's not a problem. The Adobe Application Manager does not force you to install updates or new software. And you get an archive going back to CS6."

If that works propperly then I have one reasons less to avoid CC.

To be honest I wouldn't have a problem with renting the stuff if my concerns (especially the use of the whole software when ending the subscription) where solved.

best regards
Florian

Florian Sepp visual arts
http://www.floriansepp.com


Return to posts index

Gary Huff
Re: Introducing the Photoshop Photography Program
on Sep 5, 2013 at 4:34:03 pm

[Florian Sepp] "
If that works propperly then I have one reasons less to avoid CC."


It works exactly like it did in CS3 and up. The same exact process for updates and then the Application Manager lists the apps + versions.


Return to posts index

Rainer Schubert
Re: Introducing the Photoshop Photography Program
on Sep 6, 2013 at 1:06:11 pm

Not sure, if I understood right, but:
There is no written guaranty from Adobe, that there will be backward-compatibility off CC (CC2, CC3, ...) to CS6 in the future.
It´s only for the latest Versions of CC (and not for all Apps and not for all Features. You can´t save back PPro-Files for example - you have to export with losing Features. Read the FAQ carefully.)
Also: If there are new Features in the CC Apps, they will not be convert-able to former Versions.
(Was the same in the past: InDesign new features couldn´t always be translated editable to former Versions.
You can´t save AE Files with Cinema 4D Connection completely back to CS6, because this doesn´t exist in CS6)
So for me "Saving backward to CS6" is NO solution (absolutely NO) for my archive.
And nobody knows, what Adobe plans next. This company lost trust and their behavior isn´t foreseeable any longer.
Seems, like they want to press us into cloud with compatibility, prices, ...
So it would be a logical next step to create some more "compatibility problems" between those in and out of the cloud.
Or?


Return to posts index

Herb Sevush
Re: Introducing the Photoshop Photography Program
on Sep 6, 2013 at 11:58:19 am

[Gary Huff] "And you get an archive going back to CS6."

This is only true for some applications, and definitely not for PPro. There is no backwards archiving for PPro.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


Return to posts index

Gary Huff
Re: Introducing the Photoshop Photography Program
on Sep 6, 2013 at 1:04:51 pm

[Herb Sevush] "This is only true for some applications, and definitely not for PPro. There is no backwards archiving for PPro."

Herb, I was responding to a mention about program versions, specifically older versions that might have better compatibility with certain plugins. Not about .PRPROJ compatibility.

Unless you intended to mean that you couldn't install Premiere CS6 through the Application Manager.


Return to posts index

Herb Sevush
Re: Introducing the Photoshop Photography Program
on Sep 6, 2013 at 1:06:06 pm

[Gary Huff] "Herb, I was responding to a mention about program versions, specifically older versions that might have better compatibility with certain plugins. Not about .PRPROJ compatibility."

Sorry, my bad.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


Return to posts index

Rainer Schubert
Re: Introducing the Photoshop Photography Program
on Sep 6, 2013 at 1:07:42 pm

So I think, my comment doesn´t fit also - sorry.


Return to posts index

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
© 2017 CreativeCOW.net All Rights Reserved
[TOP]