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After Effects CC Purchase question.

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Don Lonhes
After Effects CC Purchase question.
on Aug 14, 2013 at 8:44:02 pm

Hey there...

I've always hated getting software.Its such a pain.Tons of different versions,tons of different contracts,licenses...etc etc...

I am planning on getting Adobe After Effects CC but I have a couple of questions that I could not find an answer to on adobe's website.

1) How much does After Effects Only cost? At first on their site it said 24.99 Euro, then I changed the currency to dollars and it became 19.99 Dollars. Now as far as I am aware 24.99 Euro is larger than 19.99 dollars. So what is the catch?

2) If I get After Effects CC Only will I receive a copy of Cinema 4D lite as well?

I am sorry if these questions have been answered elsewhere, but I couldn't find it. If you have a link it will help as well.

PS: Thanks in advance, and have a nice day.


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: After Effects CC Purchase question.
on Aug 14, 2013 at 9:22:01 pm

not sure on AE and C4D - best bet try the straight creative cloud forum, kevin keeps a pretty close eye on it.

as to currency differentials in fundamental pricing - that's just adobe raping overseas customers like its going out of style. they barely even try to deny it.
the australian government is giving them hell for it.

http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20130729/13090023989/australian-government...

adobe in the australian scenario, is deliberately targeting and preying on specific customers, because apparently, they quite like to. For more nice cash.
And they really don't care about the press.

You'd have to think that goes to the company's soul - any company that giggles and gouges under the cover of currency differential is likely a bit dodgy -
there have been pretty careful comparisons between other software companies and adobe on what they do with international pricing.
Adobe - more specifically its current CEO and his team - have quite a serious taste for gouging the customer.

How that might make you think about their future conduct with any long term locked rental subscriber base...

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Todd Kopriva
Re: After Effects CC Purchase question.
on Aug 14, 2013 at 10:01:42 pm

Yes, Cinema 4D Lite is part of the After Effects installer.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Todd Kopriva, Adobe Systems Incorporated
After Effects quality engineering
After Effects team blog
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: After Effects CC Purchase question.
on Aug 14, 2013 at 11:58:28 pm

hey Todd,

vis-a-vis single licenses there, do you believe there is any assessment going on with the current rental licensing model?
Is it correct that you are modifying terms and guaranteeing future years as in the post below? Is that only for teams?

you are pitching a five year adobe balloon for investors - Shantanyu Narayen meets Lazaridis and Balsillie say.

is adobe's position now to to shift to a high revenue, reduced market, quasi-enterprise subscription base?
correct me, but you are actually projecting a halving of your customer base by 2016 right?

How exactly is this supposed to work?
Enforcing rental terms on your software for a fraction of your customer base - in an attempt to produce locked scarcity?

that really could get funny in retrospect. What with software and all.

sure thanks for reading, we all do of course get, canadian style, that you can't reply on this stuff.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Chris Pettit
Re: After Effects CC Purchase question.
on Aug 15, 2013 at 2:07:22 am

[Aindreas Gallagher] "is adobe's position now to to shift to a high revenue, reduced market, quasi-enterprise subscription base?
correct me, but you are actually projecting a halving of your customer base by 2016 right?"


God, I hope this is not what they are doing....


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Don Lonhes
Re: After Effects CC Purchase question.
on Aug 15, 2013 at 9:15:10 am

Well thank you for the info... My question now is ... since with the dollar currency I will pay less for the same, is it up to me to choose how I want to pay my subscription or does adobe make me use a currency that is fitted to where I live?

(I live in Bulgaria,Southeastern Europe and our currency is lev (BGN))

I guess this is more of a question that I should ask adobe about, but I am hoping that someone with similar experience has the answer to it. Thanks


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Rainer Schubert
Re: After Effects CC Purchase question.
on Aug 15, 2013 at 12:12:00 pm

Related to their business plans it is...


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Oliver Peters
Re: After Effects CC Purchase question.
on Aug 15, 2013 at 2:17:29 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "is adobe's position now to to shift to a high revenue, reduced market, quasi-enterprise subscription base? "

I think the short answer is 'yes'. Truthfully, they've always been there, if you delve past their content tools and into their back-office web and marketing middleware. If your exposure to Adobe is only Photoshop, Premiere, AE, etc. then you are missing a large part of the company - and a part that makes a lot of money.

I'm not sure about the math of actual users increasing or decreasing. Remember, that many of the folks who potentially would drop off do not generate any revenue for Adobe. From a customer point-of-view, any company would hate to alienate anyone. But from a practical sense, those customers have no skin in the game and don't represent any value to the company's R&D.

The middle ground of individual users who own and pay for a single product and aren't enterprise customers is the unknown. That would be photographers, for example. Most of these folks are still more than adequately serviced by the CS6 products (and others) that they can purchase.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Rainer Schubert
Re: After Effects CC Purchase question.
on Aug 15, 2013 at 2:25:15 pm

When I read their (own) business plans right - only 15% of their users are enterprise users...
!!! ?


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James Culbertson
Re: After Effects CC Purchase question.
on Aug 16, 2013 at 5:10:02 pm

[Oliver Peters] "I'm not sure about the math of actual users increasing or decreasing. Remember, that many of the folks who potentially would drop off do not generate any revenue for Adobe. From a customer point-of-view, any company would hate to alienate anyone. But from a practical sense, those customers have no skin in the game and don't represent any value to the company's R&D."

I can kind of understand this. It's just business after all. But I don't understand giving up large parts of the educational market. I am going to be teaching part time CTE classes in Video Production and Graphic Arts and Design at our local high school on Vashon Island. We cannot afford current Adobe CC educational pricing in any of its forms. So we'll be teaching FCPX and Motion instead of Premiere and After Effects. I don't know what we will do for Illustrator and Photoshop in the long term (perhaps Photoshop Elements) but eventually we will move to something else when our current versions are no longer viable on newer hardware/OS. In talking to other teachers I am finding I am not alone (Adobe doesn't seem to have a clue about the state of educational funding currently). I don't see how this can be beneficial for Adobe's long term profitability.


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Gary Huff
Re: After Effects CC Purchase question.
on Aug 16, 2013 at 6:50:24 pm

[James Culbertson] "I don't know what we will do for Illustrator and Photoshop in the long term (perhaps Photoshop Elements)"

I think it would be quite a trip if you taught Pixelmator. They might be so impressed that you'd get a lot of nice cooperation from them too!

What are the specific differences between Photoshop and Express? Can you still use plugins?


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Herbert van der wegen
Re: After Effects CC Purchase question.
on Aug 16, 2013 at 7:23:16 pm

Photoline is an excellent replacement for Photoshop. However, it does not support video or 3d stuff. A good replacement for Illustrator is Xara Designer.

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Bernard Newnham
Re: After Effects CC Purchase question.
on Aug 19, 2013 at 9:25:14 am

[Herbert van der wegen] "Photoline is an excellent replacement for Photoshop"

I hadn't heard of that before - it looks good. And only €59.

Thanks for that.

Bernie


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Oliver Peters
Re: After Effects CC Purchase question.
on Aug 16, 2013 at 11:32:40 pm

[James Culbertson] "Adobe doesn't seem to have a clue about the state of educational funding currently"

I'm not sure, but here's a case in point. I advise a local state college's film technology program. They co-produce feature films with working pros - i.e. no student films. We looked at which software to use on a current project, with an eye towards using the project to upgrade their workstations from FCP 7 to something newer.

Adobe was an option and they were interested, but 4 computers in the department means their annual budget would have immediately increased by $1440 each year. Their funding is via annual cap-ex requests and often covered by grants, which are unpredictable. Although they are still interested in Adobe, making this decision became impossible, because it would have to go up through a lengthy chain-of-command. In the end we added MC7, FCP X/Motion5 and Photoshop Elements.

There is also a digital media department on campus that also wants to go CC. Right now they are holding at CS6 until the issue gets resolved.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: After Effects CC Purchase question.
on Aug 16, 2013 at 11:53:18 pm

[James Culbertson] "I am going to be teaching part time CTE classes in Video Production and Graphic Arts and Design at our local high school on Vashon Island. We cannot afford current Adobe CC educational pricing in any of its forms. So we'll be teaching FCPX and Motion instead of Premiere and After Effects."

does anyone understand what's happening to adobe?

unless lots of people are lying, they are financially squeezing themselves out of education, they are disposing of about half the customer base, they have also, for kicks, invested in an avid level heavy iron edit interplay system; before they got anyone to believe in the edit system itself? That in itself is beginning to feel like a joke -

does anyone understand what is going on at this point? What are adobe actually trying to achieve? besides killing off education? Where do they see themselves in five years?

what in the hell is happening to this company?

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: After Effects CC Purchase question.
on Aug 16, 2013 at 10:13:11 pm

[Oliver Peters] "Aindreas Gallagher] "is adobe's position now to to shift to a high revenue, reduced market, quasi-enterprise subscription base? "

I think the short answer is 'yes'."


I'm not completely sure that's going to work - adobe has an incredibly long pro customer tail. the extent to which they're looking to cut it off feels risky?
It's a lot of built up body mass. I'm not sure it's been fully internalised by the company where they are going here. That's why I kept making crude blackberry comparisons in the post. Simply saying "we're off to enterprise" doesn't necessarily make it so.

On the last terrance and howard show they both acknowledged that medium sized businesses they are aware of are balking at the new rental teams cost structure.
that might as well largely be enterprise in adobe coded software terms. It also might explain some pretty hurried moves relative to teams.

My own irritation with the subscription aside, their strategic shift to say adobe anywhere - which works out no cheaper than interplay, again citing T&H - how did they think that was actually going to work?

What strategic vision are adobe engaged in here? they are projecting retaining a bit less than half their prior customer base by 2016. And that is possibly seriously optimistic. What if the subscriber base to revenue doesn't work? Also, seriously - is there no issue where their tools fail to remain predominant in any sector in the interim? Are they just presuming that will be the case to shareholders? Over three to four years? particularly in the area of image adjustment?

where are adobe actually going here in the end? Phillip Terrance hinted in the podcast that there were misgivings within the company and that there was consideration being given internally to a re-positioning. He doesn't think its going to happen.

Ultimately, for a company that isn't apple, to burn such an incredibly large historical volume of (sure - low value) creatives in an attempt to move house to a semi-enterprise space, a space that then also turns out to also have misgivings (adobe teams)
either way, adobe are basically burning the village as we speak.

adobe are exiting 8-9 million CS installs - they currently hold around eight hundred thousand subscribers, in total they are projecting some four million new subscribers by 2016. Sort of a cambodian year zero moving forward.
I'm incredibly curious how adobe broke this move down across their various software target markets when they determined this shift. how did they view the impact to their remaining areas of expertise? Exactly how did they model this forced rental shift to their remaining valid markets?

I think some really smart money people, with very careful mid term spreadsheets, might be driving an unusually long lived artistic software company into what amounts to existential trouble. If adobe are willing to hive off nearly half their deadbeat customer base to move up in the world, and it doesn't play up there, then whatever marketing PDF CRM something software aside, you wonder are they going to make anywhere near enough money there to justify killing the hoi polloi brand.

which they are in the process of doing. I'm really curious how much adobe are willing to see the popular conception of them fade away - as they say become an IBM services style semi-invisible company - rarely popularly encountered by the public. that photoshop stops being google.

Or sure, you know, everything is completely fine, and the stockholder analysts aren't going to start asking pretty direct, subscriber revenue/brand management stewardship questions inside six months.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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James Culbertson
Re: After Effects CC Purchase question.
on Aug 16, 2013 at 11:46:02 pm

My assumption is Adobe went to CC because in looking over the long term they realized that continuing to find new compelling features for each release wasn't a sustainable sales model.

I don't know that CC will be sustainable either over the long term. My guess over the longer term is that Adobe (and other larger software-only companies) will either have to diminish their sales expectations drastically and embrace much more lower cost sales or similar maintenance status, or more realistically sell themselves to a hardware company.


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: After Effects CC Purchase question.
on Aug 17, 2013 at 1:07:29 am

[James Culbertson] "My assumption is Adobe went to CC because in looking over the long term they realized that continuing to find new compelling features for each release wasn't a sustainable sales model.
"

nearly feels like we're talking about other media, given the appstore is death to supposed high value scarcity.
If the appstore ends up as the craigslist of software..

You might think that, given what that really means - that in that context, large scale combined publishers of software, like adobe, might almost immediately pursue a more inclusive, aggressive path setting out a non-traditional story, reaching into industry wide good faith partnerships founded on software excellence, allowing for highly visible, broadly understood, subscription buy ins that become legend - with famously unused designated off ramp points based on revolutionary trust and engagement across all disciplines -

as opposed to, of course, a horribly blank bullshit PR drive attempting to hold a gun to customers heads, jettisoning half their customer base, and destroying their partnership in education, at the exact worst moment in time.

so that was adobe then.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Ricardo Marty
Re: After Effects CC Purchase question.
on Aug 17, 2013 at 3:37:40 am

how stupid, adobe is giving the future to other companies. in 5 years when these young people go out into the world they will have very little experience if any with adobe.

ricardo


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Walter Soyka
Re: After Effects CC Purchase question.
on Aug 20, 2013 at 5:39:11 pm

[James Culbertson] "My assumption is Adobe went to CC because in looking over the long term they realized that continuing to find new compelling features for each release wasn't a sustainable sales model."

If I thought that, I'd be pretty down on Adobe, too. Raising prices without delivering features would cause a death spiral: as more users left CC, Adobe would have to raise prices and/or cut development more, causing more users to leave CC...

I just don't think that's what's going on here.

I think instead that Adobe is positioning themselves for new kinds of innovations with Creative Cloud, just as they did with Creative Suite a decade ago. I think there's more to this than just marketing-speak.

10 years ago, the disconnected app wasn't a very interesting place. We wanted to use our apps together, so Creative Suite focused on making these separate apps work better together on the same desktop.

Today, the disconnected desktop PC isn't a very interesting place anymore. Look at iCloud, Gmail, DropBox, Shotgun, Basecamp, Facebook, LinkedIn, Twitter and Vimeo. These services let you do all kinds of things that you just can't do on the desktop alone.

"Cloud" may be the buzzword du jour, but I think its basic underlying premise that you can use technology to connect people and resources is the biggest shift (or arguably swing of the pendulum) we've seen since the personal computer revolution put these amazing machines on our desks.

I'm not saying that the CC offering is perfect, and just like with CS1, it's still hard to see where it will go in future versions -- but I really like that Adobe is trying to build a new platform to solve the problems around collaboration and mobility and help us take advantage of our increasing connectivity.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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James Culbertson
Re: After Effects CC Purchase question.
on Aug 20, 2013 at 6:41:07 pm

[Walter Soyka] "
I think instead that Adobe is positioning themselves for new kinds of innovations with Creative Cloud, just as they did with Creative Suite a decade ago. I think there's more to this than just marketing-speak."


Two comments regarding my initial comment:

1. 20 "versions" in the future is Adobe going to be innovating like they are now or is there a point where our needs as video/media makers will be saturated fairly fully? What about in 100 versions? I understand that innovation is in some sense endless, but I still wonder if the pace of innovation won't slow naturally with time.

2. What does your comment have to do with Adobe switching to CC subscription? They could continue to sell CC perpetual and still be just as innovative. The switch to subscription is a business decision, that they have covered with a sweet veneer of happy happy goodness for consumers... just be honest about it. Adobe wants to make more money and thinks this is the best way to do it. I can't blame them, who doesn't want to make more money. Some of us will buy into it and some of us won't. Their decision has opened up the marketplace to other software companies, and that is the market working at its best.


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Walter Soyka
Re: After Effects CC Purchase question.
on Aug 20, 2013 at 7:48:52 pm

[James Culbertson] "1. 20 "versions" in the future is Adobe going to be innovating like they are now or is there a point where our needs as video/media makers will be saturated fairly fully? What about in 100 versions? I understand that innovation is in some sense endless, but I still wonder if the pace of innovation won't slow naturally with time."

I believe Edison that "there is always a better way." I don't believe the (apocryphal) patent commissioner who declared that "everything that can be invented has been invented."


[James Culbertson] "What does your comment have to do with Adobe switching to CC subscription? They could continue to sell CC perpetual and still be just as innovative. The switch to subscription is a business decision, that they have covered with a sweet veneer of happy happy goodness for consumers... just be honest about it. Adobe wants to make more money and thinks this is the best way to do it."

This has been discussed at length here before -- and please remember, I had initially hoped for perpetual licenses plus maintenance like Autodesk and Maxon do.

That said, offering subscription-only is certainly a business decision, and while I'm sure that revenue factors in heavily, I think there are a lot of other factors at play, too.

Splitting CC into subscription and perpetual offerings would also require splitting development and support resources across multiple branches of the software. Adobe did this for a little while, running separate releases of CS6 for perpetual customers and subscription customers.

That makes it harder to move forward with CC which doesn't have the same restrictions that CS did (related to Sarbanes Oxley rules about revenue recognition in the US). At the MAX conference, they said they wanted to focus their energies on one offering going forward, and while I know not everyone agrees with that, at least it might be understandable.

Basically, I do think there's consumer value in the CC offering as it stands today. I don't think it's a total money grab, and I don't think it's a sign that Adobe is out of ideas for improving their products.

But it's not my position that CC is better for everyone. Clearly there are many here in this forum alone who would prefer a CS-style offering. It is my position that CC is different (better for some, neutral for some, worse for some versus CS), but I do expect to see it become more compelling over time, not less, as it's developed.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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James Culbertson
Re: After Effects CC Purchase question.
on Aug 20, 2013 at 8:34:33 pm

[Walter Soyka] "[James Culbertson] "1. 20 "versions" in the future is Adobe going to be innovating like they are now or is there a point where our needs as video/media makers will be saturated fairly fully? What about in 100 versions? I understand that innovation is in some sense endless, but I still wonder if the pace of innovation won't slow naturally with time."

I believe Edison that "there is always a better way." I don't believe the (apocryphal) patent commissioner who declared that "everything that can be invented has been invented.""


Let me put it another way. At what point do most users not need further innovations for the most part?

For instance, Illustrator and Photoshop are enough for everything I am asked to do professionally currently. After Effects is the one application (I don't use Premiere) that I might benefit from the upgrade, though again for almost all of what I am asked to do professionally CS6 is perfectly fine. I like to have the latest software but from a business perspective I don't always need it; CC subscription has force-ably brought this reality to the forefront of my consciousness.


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David Lawrence
Re: After Effects CC Purchase question.
on Aug 20, 2013 at 8:50:23 pm

[Walter Soyka] "Splitting CC into subscription and perpetual offerings would also require splitting development and support resources across multiple branches of the software. Adobe did this for a little while, running separate releases of CS6 for perpetual customers and subscription customers. "

Except they're already splitting development and support resources across multiple branches of the software. I got a significant PrCS6 update last week. They intend to sell CS6 indefinitely and have publicly committed to supporting it in the next Mac and PC OS versions:

http://forums.adobe.com/message/5379085#5379085

It would actually be easier for them to support perpetual and subscriptions versions of the current applications because right now (and for who know how long into the future), they actually are same codebase, the only difference being DRM.

Sorry Walter, I really don't buy the argument that split development costs have left Adobe no choice except except to stop selling software and force their entire customer base to rent.

_______________________
David Lawrence
art~media~design~research
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Todd Kopriva
Re: After Effects CC Purchase question.
on Aug 20, 2013 at 9:04:33 pm

> Except they're already splitting development and support resources across multiple branches of the software. I got a significant PrCS6 update last week. They intend to sell CS6 indefinitely and have publicly committed to supporting it in the next Mac and PC OS versions:


Committing to crucial bug-fix updates is a much more constrained commitment than developing and releasing new features under both models.

> Sorry Walter, I really don't buy the argument that split development costs have left Adobe no choice


It's not that we've been left no choice... It's that we saw that we had a choice: A) develop and release features under two different models with very different regulations or B) develop and release features under one business model.

Option A is far less efficient, and splitting our finite resources would have led to less progress in making improvements that our customers want. We chose option B. We have already found that it is working wonders for freeing us up to make the right improvements at the right time, without the constraints that shackled us in the past and prevented us from delivering improvements to you for a year or more.

The new model may not make everyone happy; it may not make you happy. But it makes the greatest number of people happy. It's working for the people who are continuing to be our customers under this model, since they are already getting more improvements faster. (We have some Premiere Pro and After Effects updates coming out in September that will make this clear to After Effects users.)

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Todd Kopriva, Adobe Systems Incorporated
After Effects quality engineering
After Effects team blog
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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Rainer Schubert
Re: After Effects CC Purchase question.
on Aug 20, 2013 at 10:00:51 pm

I estimated that answer from Adobe - LOL.

Making greatest number of people happy? Making greatest number of people happy?
I think you had 12.5 K users before CashCow and now estimating a max. of users of 8 K in 2016 (According your own business papers).
Only 700,000 are comfortable with CashCow (within 18 month) according to last official statements
(but there are also mails send out by Adobe last days talking of 650.000 ?)
How do you define "greatest number" ?
Or did you mean greatest amount (of money for Adobe)?

And if I take all your words for true:
Why no (unsupported if it has to be) BuyOut?
Why no Upgrades as PlugIns?
Why no Upgrades on base of Beta-Versions (as for example e-onsoftware [VueXStream] offers to their users)?
Why not building fixed, numbered Versions (of CashCow) which can be bought CS-Style?

My trust in Adobe is simply zeroed and it´s hard to believe, that words are true.


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: After Effects CC Purchase question.
on Aug 22, 2013 at 8:35:18 pm

[Todd Kopriva] "the new model may not make everyone happy; it may not make you happy. But it makes the greatest number of people happy. It's working for the people who are continuing to be our customers under this model, "

"the greatest number of people?"
What in the hell is he talking about?

Is this not beginning to sound at all weird to anyone?
What greatest number is todd kopivra talking about?
wow that sounded strange.

Does he actually realise that he's talking about less than one ninth of the current customer base?

this just keeps getting weirder. Doesn't the above sound even a tiny bit like bunker mentality on their part?

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Jim Wiseman
Re: After Effects CC Purchase question.
on Aug 22, 2013 at 8:50:46 pm

Strange math. Doesn't appeal to me.

Jim Wiseman
Sony PMW-EX1,Pana AJ-D810 DVCPro, DVX-100, Nikon D7000, Final Cut Studio 2 and 3, Media 100 Suite 2.1.3, Premiere Pro 5.5 and 6.0, AJA ioHD, AJA Kona LHi, Avid MC, Hexacore MacPro 3.33 Ghz 24Gb RAM GTX-285 120GB SSD, Macbook Pro 17" 2011 2.2 Ghz Quadcore i7 8Gb SSD, G5 Quadcore PCIe


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: After Effects CC Purchase question.
on Aug 22, 2013 at 8:54:50 pm

It's just weird - the way adobe are starting to talk about this is getting odd. I'm not sure what's going on.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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James Culbertson
Re: After Effects CC Purchase question.
on Aug 22, 2013 at 9:08:52 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] ""the greatest number of people?"
What in the hell is he talking about?"


It makes sense if you replace "the greatest" with "a"

James


"The new model may not make everyone happy; it may not make you happy. But it makes [a] number of people happy. It's working for the people who are continuing to be our customers under this model,..."


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: After Effects CC Purchase question.
on Aug 22, 2013 at 10:50:25 pm

I still don't know what the company is doing - I don't know how they understand the small to medium shops are moving, and I don't think that adobe have internalised the ability to sit on software ala FCP7.

There is a bit of a centrifugal argument to it - lots of different parts of the suite are moving at different rates to this point, but it feels like adobe are mostly doing this to force visibility to parts of the suite that are underperforming. that would be the web -

but adobe are failing there because its not currently in their make up. muse is pretty awful, and the sites load badly.
Adobe are kind of fooling themselves there - the problem is that they are lynching their entire suite to attempt to force those tools to prominence. that's what I got from the VP interview in the UK:

"Beyond this though, Sharma says that there will be more emphasis on brand-new, razor-focused applications – such as the Edge line – rather than adding more and more functionality (and, some would say, bloat) to mature products."

Adobe are basically acknowledging here that they are doing two things - forcing the web apps into rental master suite visibility across the customer base, and forcing the base to pay for that move. the vp there is effectively saying that the rest of the suite is feature complete. that's a different customer conversation.

a little bit more

"Sharma [hilariously] describes this as “the futuristic model, where you have these small apps that are focused but they all work together and make sense together. That's definitely the direction. [These tools will also] not just being interconnected horizontally but connected with your touch applications and with Creative Cloud [for asset sharing and storage].”

so that last bit is just bulls**t. - the bottom line is that there is a latter day management distorting their entire customer base on a play to see if they can jigger up the near dead post flash software play.
the short answer is they can't, they might as well be icloud sync for how truly useful they are online.

but hey sure - its capitalism - and this is more or less the adobe endgame in process - as suite parts presumably tear away centrifugal style under such a ludicrously, ludicrously broad locked subscription - (who actually advised them that was going to work? across all those disciplines?)

that this might not end up entirely pretty is half an understatement.
Again - small reminder - a lot of the board members are near actively stock sold out of this company.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Walter Soyka
Re: After Effects CC Purchase question.
on Aug 20, 2013 at 9:19:59 pm

[David Lawrence] "Except they're already splitting development and support resources across multiple branches of the software. I got a significant PrCS6 update last week. They intend to sell CS6 indefinitely and have publicly committed to supporting it in the next Mac and PC OS versions:"

I think their continuing support for CS6 is a special case to support users like you who are declining subscription. They're standing by their product with a bug fix, and that's a good thing.

But that's two branches, total. I think that's a totally separate conversation from supporting multiple different branches within multiple major versions for perpetual licensees versus subscribers.


[David Lawrence] "It would actually be easier for them to support perpetual and subscriptions versions of the current applications because right now (and for who know how long into the future), they actually are same codebase, the only difference being DRM."

Premiere 7.0.1 was a feature-bearing update that would have to have separate branches for perpetual licensees (bug fixes only) and subscribers (bug fixes plus new features).


[David Lawrence] "Sorry Walter, I really don't buy the argument that split development costs have left Adobe no choice except except to stop selling software and force their entire customer base to rent."

David, I'm not arguing that they have no choice at all. They could continue developing both, but as they said at MAX, they chose to focus on one offering. I know it's not what you want, but I can understand why that choice is good for the development teams and CC subscribers.

I'm not trying to sell CC, and I'm not trying to suggest what CC should be. You're certainly well-justified in your disapproval of software subscriptions, but I think there's a lot of nuance here, and I'm just trying to explain what is.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Rainer Schubert
Re: After Effects CC Purchase question.
on Aug 20, 2013 at 9:46:01 pm

I can´t see (and was angered about that for many years) that Adobe made all their bought Apps a "One world".
Layer functionalities are different in all the Apps (PS, AI, InD,...) Path-Handles are different, GUIs, Menüs, Windows are all not consequent simultaneous named.
And that years after they found their home under the Flag of Adobe.
All the Apps are still "Single Apps" and not familiar.

And yes, Cloud is a buzzword for the moment. And like CC there is so much Abuse of that.
There are interesting features, web connected PCs can afford.
But I can´t see where they are within CashCow to call the whole thing "cloud"
(So many users where confused by that, and Adobe was mollifying with terms like "nothing has changed to Core Apps, all running local as before..." - LOL)
Nothing against connecting PCs, nothing against bringing in cloud-based features.
But that must make sense.
For the Moment the Core Apps are simply the core Apps.
Cloud features are simply some added features.
As they would add an "Cloud-App" to the former CS Suites.
To take this and call it a great innovation is misleading to the border to call it a lie.

Nothing against that Adobe will offer Cloud-features.
But all against the strategy to change the business-model with that.


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Herbert van der wegen
Re: After Effects CC Purchase question.
on Aug 22, 2013 at 11:18:12 pm

The new CC subscription only model offers LESS freedom, is MORE expensive for the average Adobe user, and is LESS flexible.

I've been a loyal Adobe customer since Photoshop v3. This new business model caused me to drop ALL of their software, and replace with alternatives.

No-one would have imagined this only two years ago - If you had told me at that time that I'd moved away from Adobe by now, I would have laughed in your face. And yet it happened.

As for the great "update cycle of CC": Photoshop CC introduced an extremely frustrating behaviour that hidden layers are selected with the move tool; Flash CC removed essential animation tools and removed more features than it added (http://forums.adobe.com/message/5420124#5420124), Dreamweaver CC removed more features than it added, Premiere CC introduced some show-stopping bugs, FireWorks was killed, and so on.

If this is an indication of how the new subscription model is going to affect development of these apps, well... Sign on the wall?

In the meantime I am very happy with my alternatives that are less expensive and are on par or superior in features. I do miss the interoperability of the Adobe apps sometimes, but that is offset by the freedom I now experience in my workflow. And the fact I actually OWN my software. Also, the support of these privately owned businesses is LIGHTYEARS ahead of the silly Adobe support. Anecdotal example: in six months time since I have started using it, the Photoline devs implemented nearly ten of my suggestions to improve the applications (including support for multi-layered EXR out of the box)! Truly a breath for fresh air.

Except After Effects - still looking for a good alternative.

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