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Who is onboard, and why?

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Santiago Martí
Who is onboard, and why?
on Aug 6, 2013 at 5:54:51 pm

I am onboard since CC launch. In my case, I found the continous upgrades and price a good deal. I had zero problems with activation and/or installation. I found Premiere CC the best ever. I am slicing R3D material as butter. Still, y completely understand why is not an option for everybody.

Anyway, who is onboard and what are your thoughts?

Santiago Martí
http://www.robotrojo.com.ar
Red One M-X, Red Epic X, Red Pro Primes, Adobe CS6, Assimilate Scratch


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Morten Ranmar
Re: Who is onboard, and why?
on Aug 6, 2013 at 7:33:23 pm

I was in the middle of a 2 year subscription plan for CS6 Prod. Bundle, which was suddenly not going to bring any more updates. Adobe were fair and treated me with a one year free subscription for CC, so I have embrassed it so far, and am enjoying the much improved Premiere Pro.

But when this year ends, I will reconsider the whole Adobe thing,unless they loosen up on pricing and offer a method to access files after stopping the service. Will probably keep Premiere on CC, but stay on CS6 for everything else.

- No Parking Production -

2 x Finalcut Studio3, 2 x Prod. bundle CS6, 2 x MacPro, 2 x ioHD, Ethernet File Server w. X-Raid.... and FCPX on trial


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Steve Brame
Re: Who is onboard, and why?
on Aug 6, 2013 at 9:06:08 pm

Was already on a CS6 subscription plan, so there wasn't a question about continuing. I make my living with Adobe products. If an extra $20/month is the knife edge that will put me out of business, then perhaps I should look for another career.

Asus P6X58D Premium * Core i7 950 * 24GB RAM * nVidia Quadro 4000 * Windows 7 Premium 64bit * System Drive - WD Caviar Black 500GB * 2nd Drive(Pagefile, Previews) - WD Velociraptor 10K drive 600GB * Media Drive - 2TB RAID5 (4 - WD Caviar Black 500GB drive) * Matrox MX02 Mini * Creative Cloud
-------------------------------------------
"98% of all computer issues can be solved by simply pressing 'F1'."
Steve Brame
creative illusions Productions


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Morten Ranmar
Re: Who is onboard, and why?
on Aug 7, 2013 at 9:36:07 am

Mind you on the long run 20$ per month is not even going to give you a single App subscription, if you live in Europe. And you still loose access to your work if you quit.

- No Parking Production -

2 x Finalcut Studio3, 2 x Prod. bundle CS6, 2 x MacPro, 2 x ioHD, Ethernet File Server w. X-Raid.... and FCPX on trial


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Steve Brame
Re: Who is onboard, and why?
on Aug 7, 2013 at 1:22:02 pm

[Morten Ranmar] "Mind you on the long run 20$ per month is not even going to give you a single App subscription"

Nor here in the USA. It's merely the increase between what I was paying for my CS6 subscription and the CC subscription.



[Morten Ranmar] "And you still loose access to your work if you quit"

And if I stop paying for gas, or petrol, I would not be able to drive, that is, until I decide I need to drive again.

Asus P6X58D Premium * Core i7 950 * 24GB RAM * nVidia Quadro 4000 * Windows 7 Premium 64bit * System Drive - WD Caviar Black 500GB * 2nd Drive(Pagefile, Previews) - WD Velociraptor 10K drive 600GB * Media Drive - 2TB RAID5 (4 - WD Caviar Black 500GB drive) * Matrox MX02 Mini * Creative Cloud
-------------------------------------------
"98% of all computer issues can be solved by simply pressing 'F1'."
Steve Brame
creative illusions Productions


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Morten Ranmar
Re: Who is onboard, and why?
on Aug 7, 2013 at 1:43:42 pm

Yes it all works out perfectly if you are a professional who uses the products every day. Unfortunately there are people who cannot afford, or do not need, all the latest gadgets and smart-tools that Adobe will be filling into their products in the future...

- No Parking Production -

2 x Finalcut Studio3, 2 x Prod. bundle CS6, 2 x MacPro, 2 x ioHD, Ethernet File Server w. X-Raid.... and FCPX on trial


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Paul King
Re: Who is onboard, and why?
on Aug 7, 2013 at 2:07:03 pm

I dont think it matters what Adobe do with the software in the future, the subscription model means you have no choice whether you want new features or not.

You have no choice but to pay for the upgrades they decide to give you.
If you dont like what's on offer you have no choice to stay put with what you have. They continually get revenue no matter what they deliver.

This in itself is a bad deal, it doesn't matter what the price is.
I think the monthly fee is too cheap for those that never paid for the perpetual license and most who didn't are very happy - it's a soft in for them.

Time will tell, Adobe now control the value proposition.

PS - I think Premiere CC is by far the best yet and it works great, but it still has serious CUDA/quality issues that have not been addressed by the linear color space switch.



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Steve Brame
Re: Who is onboard, and why?
on Aug 7, 2013 at 2:10:57 pm

I understand...however, I can only post for myself, which was the focus of this thread.

Asus P6X58D Premium * Core i7 950 * 24GB RAM * nVidia Quadro 4000 * Windows 7 Premium 64bit * System Drive - WD Caviar Black 500GB * 2nd Drive(Pagefile, Previews) - WD Velociraptor 10K drive 600GB * Media Drive - 2TB RAID5 (4 - WD Caviar Black 500GB drive) * Matrox MX02 Mini * Creative Cloud
-------------------------------------------
"98% of all computer issues can be solved by simply pressing 'F1'."
Steve Brame
creative illusions Productions


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Morten Ranmar
Re: Who is onboard, and why?
on Aug 7, 2013 at 2:14:13 pm

... and what a busy tread it is... ; )

- No Parking Production -

2 x Finalcut Studio3, 2 x Prod. bundle CS6, 2 x MacPro, 2 x ioHD, Ethernet File Server w. X-Raid.... and FCPX on trial


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Walter Soyka
Re: Who is onboard, and why?
on Aug 7, 2013 at 2:34:56 pm

I'm onboard, because I really like the software. Ae CC and Pr CC are both really good upgrades.

There are some good benefits to CC today (syncing preferences and bouncing licenses across machines and across platforms), and I think that in the future, CC, being an offering of products plus services, can solve problems around collaboration and mobility that CS could not.

Subscription pricing doesn't really bother me. I feel I was on a de-facto subscription anyway, upgrading at each release to keep current.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Michael Hoefler
Re: Who is onboard, and why?
on Aug 7, 2013 at 3:50:41 pm

I am onboard and a lot of my colleagues, too. My theory is, that editors like I am, working for non broadcast/TV projects (corporate) are not posting so often in these forums and are happy with all what the subscription model offers. I suppose, that the majority of editors worldwide have not these problems with subscription like the smaller community of film/broadcast editors. It is cheap (no high investment) and if Adobe will rise the price much more than already here in Europe and will stop with innovations and refinements, then I will go back to FCP X. I can open old projects anytime with a monthly fee. No problem with this.

But I understand that some editors have a problem with subscription. For me and a lot of others it works fine.

Michael


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Lance Bachelder
Re: Who is onboard, and why?
on Aug 7, 2013 at 8:59:09 pm

Onboard here too - mainly because, like Walter said, CC is really good. I have done a complete 180 since Premiere CS6 and Premiere CC is now my NLE of choice.

Lance Bachelder
Writer, Editor, Director
Downtown Long Beach, California
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1680680/?ref_=fn_al_nm_1


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Santiago Martí
Re: Who is onboard, and why?
on Aug 8, 2013 at 12:22:44 am

Thank you for TVE answers, I was starting to feel weird actually enjoying CC.
For me, the real test will be the plugin to open Red Epic Dragón footage. If Adobe pulls that fast, then i believe them. I remember waiting a whole cycle for compatubility with Red’s latest color science.

Santiago Martí
http://www.robotrojo.com.ar
Red One M-X, Red Epic X, Red Pro Primes, Adobe CS6, Assimilate Scratch


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Greg Jones
Re: Who is onboard, and why?
on Aug 8, 2013 at 1:54:04 am

I'm mostly on board. Really enjoying Adobe CC. Subscription model doesn't bother me even though I Would like to see a cheaper bundle option, such as $29.99 for a production bundle that only includes video apps. I have no need for the web apps. Premiere Pro CC is incredible.

Greg Jones
D7,Inc.


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Michael Hendrix
Re: Who is onboard, and why?
on Aug 8, 2013 at 2:14:46 am

Onboard here as well. I have to upgrade every cycle for compatibility and I am actually getting into Muse for some simple website stuff. Moving my website over to Business Catalyst soon since that is part of the package.



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Chris Harlan
Re: Who is onboard, and why?
on Aug 10, 2013 at 8:51:50 am

[Walter Soyka] "I'm onboard, because I really like the software. Ae CC and Pr CC are both really good upgrades.
"


Me too. Plus, I'm on Avid.


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Dale Hersh
Re: Who is onboard, and why?
on Aug 13, 2013 at 3:20:27 am

Hi all,

to continue the subject, I am more concerned about the future pricing than anything. Further more, Adobe is getting really specific on hardware and will be able to control that. For example I have Titan vid card and had to hack the list on CS6 to get CUDA. What's up with that. They could start getting in bed with other manufacturers and that's just not good. Limits competition.

I just don't like the fact that if I stop using "my" software, I loose access to all of "their" projects.

Just my thoughts...years from now... and you will be locked in. NOT GOOD business plan.


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Rainer Schubert
Re: Who is onboard, and why?
on Aug 13, 2013 at 10:16:21 am

Wonder why the "Requirements" - Argument (Hard- & Software) is not discussed as one of the main concerns (as I see it).
Yes it´s true - As Adobe can do everything it´s easy for them to get in relation with hardware-developers.
As a scenario: If Apple needs more MACs been sold - Adobe can help them with switching to new requirements...
Beside all the other hazels ... No, not on board. Never.


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Walter Soyka
Re: Who is onboard, and why?
on Aug 13, 2013 at 12:35:11 pm

[Rainer Schubert] "Yes it´s true - As Adobe can do everything it´s easy for them to get in relation with hardware-developers. As a scenario: If Apple needs more MACs been sold - Adobe can help them with switching to new requirements..."

Conspiracy theory?

Apple and Autodesk have very specific hardware requirements. Avid is a bit looser, but they still have their own storage systems. Adobe is the only software-only company of the bunch.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Rainer Schubert
Re: Who is onboard, and why?
on Aug 13, 2013 at 12:46:15 pm

That´s not the problem. You are right for the moment.
The problem is - in my eyes - that Adobes new EULA allows them to do nearly everything.
They can modify whatever they want. They can throw away hardware-specs, Apps of the bundle (like Encore), etc.
With the old model you could decide (to follow or not) - with CashCow not (or paying for the newest version while using an old one).


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Walter Soyka
Re: Who is onboard, and why?
on Aug 13, 2013 at 2:18:01 pm

[Rainer Schubert] "The problem is - in my eyes - that Adobes new EULA allows them to do nearly everything. They can modify whatever they want. They can throw away hardware-specs, Apps of the bundle (like Encore), etc. With the old model you could decide (to follow or not) - with CashCow not (or paying for the newest version while using an old one)."

Do you think that Adobe is alone in their ability to radically change their offering? Look at Apple with FCP7/FCPX. Look at Autodesk with Smoke 2012/2013. Some call Avid -- it's their turn next.

With CC, you can still choose to follow or not. You just unsubscribe. Re-rent if you have to in the future for specific projects. In terms of time and money, this may even be easier than maintaining old systems to run that legacy software.

Having used Avid, Media 100, and Apple solutions before using Adobe (and Autodesk and The Foundry), I am very confident in my ability to transition. If CC doesn't meet my needs in the future, I'll transition again, but in the meantime, I'm not going to avoid really good software because of something that might or might not happen sometime in the future. In my opinion, the future of any software is too hard to predict to base all my decisions based exclusively on what I might want five years from now.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Rainer Schubert
Re: Who is onboard, and why?
on Aug 13, 2013 at 7:38:13 pm

Seems you are only (or main) interested in Video-Editing.
So here it´s right - you have some choices to change.
But if you also use the Vector- & Pixel- & Web-Tools (AI, PS, DW & Co) it´s not that easy to change.
And if you also have a large archive it´s also not easy (I would have to Re-subscribe every day, for many years...;)


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Walter Soyka
Re: Who is onboard, and why?
on Aug 13, 2013 at 8:36:23 pm

[Rainer Schubert] "Seems you are only (or main) interested in Video-Editing."

On the contrary, the bulk of my work is motion graphics and my main Adobe application is After Effects. (I also use Autodesk Smoke and The Foundry's Nuke, and I have used Apple Motion extensively in the past.) I talk about Premiere a lot here because I assume most here are interested in editorial unless they specify otherwise.

In my opinion, After Effects is the best motion graphics application on the market today -- by a wide margin. If subscription is the way for me to get the best app on the market, that's what I'll do. If your conspiracy theory holds true and CC development slows while its price skyrockets, then Ae will quickly cease being the best app on the market and I'll switch to something else.

However, I don't think your supposition that development will stagnate while prices skyrocket will prove true. Raising the prices and slowing development will drive users away; the more they raise the prices, or the more development slows, the fewer users will be interested in CC. If they raised prices more or slowed development more to compensate, then more users would leave.

You are describing the recipe for a death spiral. That's not in Adobe's best interest. I am pretty sure they understand that they need to earn their customers' business by providing a good value.

If Creative Cloud is just a new way to pay for Creative Suite, it will fail. I don't believe that Adobe has as much power over customers via their project files as you do. Too many other near-monopolies have failed because their users switched away when pricing was too high or development too slow. It was once unthinkable that you could edit on something other than Avid or layout with something other than Quark, yet here we are.

Instead, I think that Creative Cloud could eventually address some problems (specifically around collaboration and mobility) that Creative Suite could not because CS was desktop-only with no networked services component. It'll take some time, but I am betting that future versions of CC will be a lot more compelling than you're envisioning. I think CC is the beginning of the next generation of advances, not an attempt to squeeze some profit out of sun-setting products.

I guess we'll see in a couple years.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Rainer Schubert
Re: Who is onboard, and why?
on Aug 13, 2013 at 9:48:43 pm

Well, the problems in the field of Video-Editing are not as strange as with Photoshop (which has no competitor for the moment) or Vector-Graphics.
Or with Workflows in the Printing-Sector, which are nearby based 100% on Adobe/PDF-Workflows.
And I don´t have the trust to Adobe you have.

I think they know exactly, how mature their Apps are & how difficult to bring in, real amazing advantages in the future.
(And how difficult to sell upgrades like "changed GUI-color")
They know about their monopoly-state and how difficult it is for users like me (who used all the apps), to change the complete Application-Mix.
And I also do not believe, that this kind of distribution is a great motivation for this Company to develop more than necessary.
Their side-philosophy, to become an Marketing-App-Provider also, shows, that they are at an "end" with their Core-Apps - looking for new business fields.
The radical Change of distribution, the quietness to eligible concerns like loosing archive, missing buy-out - all showing that Adobe has changed.
In my eyes they are not longer acting to the needs of their customers.
They try to maximize the profit of their main Apps. As long as they be able to, and as long as there are no real competitors.
Nothing against maximizing profits - But the users must have real advantages.

But jop - we will see in the future.
I can only speak for myself: As long as I can base my workflows on foreseeable, "owned" software I will do so.
As long as possible I will not subscribe to any Software renting like that (May be if there is a buy-out solution could change my mind. But Adobe is RIP for me)


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Walter Soyka
Re: Who is onboard, and why?
on Aug 13, 2013 at 12:30:55 pm

[Dale Hersh] "to continue the subject, I am more concerned about the future pricing than anything."

Fair. The price could go up -- but they would risk losing customers. I believe that if Adobe is able to profitably charge more for CC than I can profitably pay to use it, I'm running my business wrong.

In general, the price for all this software has gone down. After Effects cost a lot more 20 years ago than it does now.


[Dale Hersh] "Further more, Adobe is getting really specific on hardware and will be able to control that. For example I have Titan vid card and had to hack the list on CS6 to get CUDA. What's up with that. They could start getting in bed with other manufacturers and that's just not good. Limits competition."

But... isn't Adobe actually getting less specific on hardware? Premiere Pro CS6 introduced OpenCL support, and Premiere Pro CC improves on it.

Adobe used to limit out-of-the-box functionality to the specific whitelisted cards they tested (while allowing a very easy "hack" to enable other cards), but Premiere Pro CC will run on any CUDA or OpenCL card that passes basic functionality tests.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Rainer Schubert
Re: Who is onboard, and why?
on Aug 13, 2013 at 7:34:40 pm

[Walter Soyka] "Fair. The price could go up -- but they would risk losing customers. I believe that if Adobe is able to profitably charge more for CC than I can profitably pay to use it, I'm running my business wrong.

In general, the price for all this software has gone down. After Effects cost a lot more 20 years ago than it does now."


Prices are low, because Adobe has to catch as many people as possible for the moment. And they also make special advertisements to get their targets.
Sure - Prices for Software are lower than decades before, but I don´t think, that Adobe will hold this level in future.
(Their plan is build on only the half of former users - how should that work without raised prices...!?)
My assumption is: As they try to bring as many people as possible to their "Take all not one" dependency, many of the users might stop using alternatives.
(As if they need PS, they take the whole CashCow with InDesign and stop using QuarkXPress for example)
After a while the escape of this is difficult or impossible, as you will loose your archive and files with that.
I don´t believe that Adobe will open doors to make their file-formats universal.
With building this universe of dependency the CashCow users will have to stay.
Adobe can raise prices and stop creating updates.

May be a bit overdrawn, but in the main, I think that this is what they planned.


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Michael Hendrix
Re: Who is onboard, and why?
on Aug 14, 2013 at 3:53:02 am

The hardware argument is just not accurate. What Adobe is offering is accelerated performance on certain cards. They are using new technology to give you better performance. Premiere CC will still run on systems with other cards, you just will not get the great performance.

As far as Adobe being a monopoly, well if that is true, they built the monopoly on great software, not pricing the competition out of business and then having full control over software prices. It has actually been the opposite, because for the average person, Adobe software has been very expensive.

The funny part is, that is exactly what Apple did and no one really called them out on it. They were a company with lots of money that entered the professional video editing software business, undercut every competitor and ran many out of business in the process. If Apple would have continued to build on FCP, they truly could have dominated this industry. At the time they stopped development, they were over 50% of the market.

Would Avid still be here if Apple had spent the last 5 years developing FCP to it's full potential?



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Rainer Schubert
Re: Who is onboard, and why?
on Aug 14, 2013 at 10:37:49 am

Disagree.
Adobes is trying the same thing, they did with QuarkXPress, Freehand and others.
As they are nearby a monopolist, they play the competitors against the wall with prices (or buying them out of the market).
They try to strengthen their monopoly.
70 € a month (EU) = 840 € year = 1100 $ isn´t also something that could be called "cheap".
Especially if you think about, that most users don´t need all the stuff, they rent with this amount.
And: The concern is more about the fact, that they have the possibility (EULA) to change hardware requirements to what ever they want.
They can throw away Apps of the CashCow, they can kill functionalities.
I don´t think of Adobe as the welfare.


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walter biscardi
Re: Who is onboard, and why?
on Aug 18, 2013 at 3:04:12 pm

[Santiago Martí] "Anyway, who is onboard and what are your thoughts?
"


Pretty much the same as you. The efficiency of Premiere Pro CC vs. even CS6 is incredible. So much more responsive and fast via the interface and especially loading / using large project.

Subscription has been a non issue for us, near constant updates have been awesome.

Awesome upside for me is that we have 5 editing systems but not every single one is in use at all times. So we have one system that does not have anything onboard yet, but when it's needed, we'll just go month to month on that one. No need purchasing a full suite for a system that is on "standby" All the Trial versions are installed and we'll upgrade to the full subscription as necessary and then quit the subscription after the projects are done. Nice money savings there.

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Editor, Colorist, Director, Writer, Consultant, Author, Chef.
HD Post and Production
Biscardi Creative Media

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