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Been Using Adobe for Over a Decade - I'll Never Go CC

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Carl Sollenberger
Been Using Adobe for Over a Decade - I'll Never Go CC
on Aug 2, 2013 at 7:25:29 am

I always upgraded my Adobe simply because I loved the software and enjoyed keeping current. It was about fun - not necessity. I liked Adobe back then. New versions excited me. Now, not so much.

For starters I don't care for Adobe at all as a company anymore. Their new business approach shows a major shift in who they are at their core. From their crappy over-seas phone support, to their horrible rent to never own your work model, it is clear that customer satisfaction takes a back seat to profit - that never ends well long term for any company by the way.

They could have done both.... Perpetual licenses for people like me and CC for the people that prefer that method. Anyhow, this isn't a wrong or right issue as much as it is an issue of what customers want. See, I'm not saying Adobe is wrong... I'm just saying they are missing the boat with people like me, and that will cost them a few bucks.

And when the rest of the software world decides to fleece the planet with this approach, people will use a lot less software cause they won't want to shell out $600 a month for Adobe, Pro Tools, C4d, Plug Ins like Particular and Shine, Microsoft Office, Windows, (insert your favorites here)....

Renting software is great for the company (perhaps) - bad for the consumer. I'm not even going to start down that road. Not with Adobe - not with any of them.


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Bernard Newnham
Re: Been Using Adobe for Over a Decade - I'll Never Go CC
on Aug 2, 2013 at 8:58:19 am

The rental model is an excellent opportunity for other companies who have waited in the wings for their chance to supply non-rental software. This particular market has been dominated by Adobe, but there are others out there. For them, Photoshop will be the one to beat - at the moment there is no real substitute.

Bernie


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: Been Using Adobe for Over a Decade - I'll Never Go CC
on Aug 2, 2013 at 12:00:05 pm

I would be really surprised if there weren't one or more software teams focused directly on a PS competitor at this point. You've got to figure the potential benefits are gigantic.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Rich Rubasch
Re: Been Using Adobe for Over a Decade - I'll Never Go CC
on Aug 2, 2013 at 2:45:22 pm

I agree...I've used Adobe products since 1993 (and used AfterEffects when it was still Cosa) and I am not budging on the CC model. A head scratcher for us old dogs. I'm not on board.

I have no plans to adopt the software rental model, regardless of how many updates I might get, and the frequency of them. I buy software and use it until it's usefulness requires an upgrade or another product comes along to replace it.

BUT, at least with that model, I could still use the older version of the initial software if I needed to update a project etc. This new rental model doesn't (easily) allow me to do that. I have to get out a credit card and pay Adobe to update a client file. Not cool.

Adobe is really forcing us to go "all in" on their products, making in my opinion a major commitment going forward, rather than a perpetual which allows me to use the software in the way that I choose.

Bewildering that we are having this discussion about Adobe, one of the most beloved software developers in our industry. Unbelievable really.

Rich Rubasch
Tilt Media Inc.
Video Production, Post, Studio Sound Stage
Founder/President/Editor/Designer/Animator
http://www.tiltmedia.com


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Andy Field
Re: Been Using Adobe for Over a Decade - I'll Never Go CC
on Aug 2, 2013 at 3:04:19 pm

Have to say that the new version of Premiere is so superior to previous incarnations that I'm happy to pay the monthly subscription rate.....it is an enormous time saver and has finally replaced FCP as our every day NLE -- so similar to FCP that the learning curve is virtually non existent...no rendering no transcoding (yes this was in earlier versions..but this is so much better)

Am i happy with subscription only? No -- but but for the price of the yearly upgrade we were paying, we get everything Adobe makes -- and we use most of it - Photoshop, After Effects, Audition, Premiere....

Adobe definitely must pay attention to it's "overseas" phone support that more often than not creates cranky dissatisfied customers...however their US Tech support, in my experience, has been stellar.

Adobe will be wise to listen to people who want a choice.....but lacking that right now, the new upgraded programs are outstanding

Andy Field
FieldVision Productions
N. Bethesda, Maryland 20852


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Chris Pettit
Re: Been Using Adobe for Over a Decade - I'll Never Go CC
on Aug 2, 2013 at 3:33:48 pm

What about the lack of an "exit strategy"?

What are your thoughts on loosing control and access to your work if payments stop at some point in the future?

That's my big issue. I won't ever subscribe until there is a way to protect the work.


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Dave LaRonde
Re: Been Using Adobe for Over a Decade - I'll Never Go CC
on Aug 2, 2013 at 5:17:37 pm

[Chris Pettit] "I won't ever subscribe until there is a way to protect the work."

I'm well aware of the phrases, "Rome wasn't built in a day" and "Don't count your chickens before they're hatched", but I still can't help but think there is at least one and perhaps more software developers who see Adobe's myopia and intransigence as a golden opportunity to create new applications that do the same things as Adobe applications.

I guess it's a question of how long people can hold out using their legacy Adobe software.

I can hold out for a LONG time, for one.

Dave LaRonde
Former Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Chris Pettit
Re: Been Using Adobe for Over a Decade - I'll Never Go CC
on Aug 2, 2013 at 5:45:46 pm

[Dave LaRonde] " I still can't help but think there is at least one and perhaps more software developers who see Adobe's myopia and intransigence as a golden opportunity to create new applications that do the same things as Adobe applications.

I guess it's a question of how long people can hold out using their legacy Adobe software.

I can hold out for a LONG time, for one."


I really hope you're right, market alternatives changes this whole equation.

And I agree on holding out. I can wait a LONG time. I've put both clients and my vendors on notice that I am not moving to CC, and that if they decide to, that we will need a strategy for how to work around the myriad of issues that presents. So far, I've had no concerns or push back at all.

Time will tell if, and for how long, I can get away with that. So far I have total agreement and understanding from everyone I've talked to. Even from some people who were road-testing CC before it was mandatory.


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Andy Field
Re: Been Using Adobe for Over a Decade - I'll Never Go CC
on Aug 2, 2013 at 9:00:59 pm

As i do this for a living, I'm not concerned about losing my work....even at 50 dollars a month this is cheaper than handing over 1500 for the entire suite at once....and about even with the yearly upgrade we purchased.....and our work is the finished product...not the software....you build a house -- you can rent a hammer ...and you still have the house. Want to build another house 5 months late...rent the same hammer.

Yes there are recurring projects, AE projects you re-use....you can also export XML to other NLE's -- FCP or AVID......and keep that work product on another platform.

I agree that losing the choice of cloud vs perpetual license stinks....and Adobe may have to re-consider if it turns out to be a bad business decision..but in the meantime we have a suite of mature extraordinary products...and if you don't need the enhancements....then simply buy the CS6 perpetual license.

The fact that competitors haven't met or beaten some Adobe's signature products (AE and Photoshop) is a testament to the hard work Adobe software engineers have put into those products.....the company deserves a return on that investment...it's up to customers to decide whether they want to fund those profits AND ongoing development in a way that Adobe thinks will grow their bottom line.....or boycott and force them to reconsider

Andy Field
FieldVision Productions
N. Bethesda, Maryland 20852


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Chris Pettit
Re: Been Using Adobe for Over a Decade - I'll Never Go CC
on Aug 2, 2013 at 9:49:45 pm

[Andy Field] "As i do this for a living, I'm not concerned about losing my work...."

That seems to be one of the biggest differences between people who are opposed and those who are not. Yes, we all do this for a living, but I'm also an artist for the sheer joy of it. I love what I do. If and when I retire, or if business gets slow, I have no intention of being prevented from creating animation, or never producing video, never working on photography simply because I've been locked out of the tools and my body of work because perpetual payments stop. It's simply unacceptable.


[Andy Field] "you build a house -- you can rent a hammer ...and you still have the house. Want to build another house 5 months late...rent the same hammer."

I'm pretty sure carpenters and framers own their hammers, never heard of renting one.

Hammers and software are both tools. Owning tools is the standard way most business works, with the exception of highly specialized and prohibitively expensive tools that you rent for specific tasks (like a boring rig to use the construction analogy).

[Andy Field] "and if you don't need the enhancements....then simply buy the CS6 perpetual license."

Already own CS6. And CS5.5 And CS5 And CS4 And CS3 and.......

The reason we pay for upgrades is because the software looses relevance and compatibility over time. In 5 years I don't know what I'll be using, but it wont be CS6, it wont be usable by then. It's not a viable long term solution. Adobe knows this btw:

Adobe VP Mala Sharma: "The community is telling us is that what we have in place today – where you can export from your CC apps to CS6 – is not an acceptable solution," admits Sharma. "There are other ideas and expectations that customers have that we are actively discussing internally – but more importantly with our advisors and customers (on the forums)."


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Ricardo Marty
Re: Been Using Adobe for Over a Decade - I'll Never Go CC
on Aug 2, 2013 at 11:01:33 pm

And its in adobes best interest to stop compatibilty of cs with future os upgrades. then they will think that we would have no choices. i think that win 8 will be the last os for cs6, unless the cc suddenly condenses due to the freeze caused by potential not renting.


Ricardo


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Chris Pettit
Re: Been Using Adobe for Over a Decade - I'll Never Go CC
on Aug 2, 2013 at 11:09:56 pm

Yep. Of all of my concerns, OS is the biggest. It's foolish to gamble that any software will be even "installable" over the long run


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Dave LaRonde
Re: Been Using Adobe for Over a Decade - I'll Never Go CC
on Aug 2, 2013 at 11:57:22 pm

Hmmmm. For the amount and complexity of the work I do, it might not be bad to think of my current hardware setup as my Adobe Legacy System.

Dave LaRonde
Former Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Ridley Walker
Re: Been Using Adobe for Over a Decade - I'll Never Go CC
on Aug 2, 2013 at 11:58:28 pm

[Chris Pettit] "Of all of my concerns, OS is the biggest. "

Agreed. Didn't Adobe say they'd make sure CS6 worked with Win 8 and OS X Mavericks?

Of course the rumour is that they also agreed to make all current CC apps save files backward to CS6, which hasn't been the case I believe.


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Carl Sollenberger
Re: Been Using Adobe for Over a Decade - I'll Never Go CC
on Aug 3, 2013 at 1:26:35 am

I can go a very long time before I need to upgrade OS - years and years.
By the time I NEED to upgrade OS or software, there may more choices for me then - or Adobe will finally have their nasty way with me and I'll be forced to go CC.
Till then, CS6 and win8 is fine.

Like I said in my OP - I mainly stayed up on the upgrades cause it was fun for me. I make a living doing TV and Radio spots, and I can do a great job of it with CS6 for at least another three to five years if I must.

I refuse to upgrade if it isn't fun, cause if you can't have fun in life what the hell is it all for!



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Chris Pettit
Re: Been Using Adobe for Over a Decade - I'll Never Go CC
on Aug 4, 2013 at 4:12:38 am

[Carl Sollenberger] "I refuse to upgrade if it isn't fun, cause if you can't have fun in life what the hell is it all for!"

That sums it up.

For me, the joy of upgrading to new Adobe tools, of getting my hands on cool new features, the new creative possibilities, and the sense of community with the thousands of other developers and artists who share that passion has been drained by mandatory CC. What on earth were they thinking?

I upgraded to CS5.5 from CS5.0 JUST to get warp stabilizer. Just that one cool tool. I paid for the upgrade just because I wanted to have fun with WS (and because I have always wanted to encourage, AND pay for continued innovation at Adobe).

That kind of partnership with Adobe, a sense that we're all working together to make the work, the tools we use, and the industry overall as good as it could be has been seriously injured by the shoddy way all this has been handled, the dysfunctional communication from Adobe in regards to it's loyal long term customers, and an overall feeling that Adobe's executives have no connection at all to the people who have supported their products for all these years.

It's just no fun anymore.


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Todd Kopriva
Re: Been Using Adobe for Over a Decade - I'll Never Go CC
on Aug 3, 2013 at 2:56:00 am

>
Of course the rumour is that they also agreed to make all current CC apps save files backward to CS6, which hasn't been the case I believe.


Show me where anyone from Adobe said that all current CC applications would save back to CS6.

Of course, several of the applications---like After Effects, which I work on---do save back from CC versions to CS6. But if someone promised that all applications would do this, I need to know who said that so that I can correct their misinformation.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Todd Kopriva, Adobe Systems Incorporated
After Effects quality engineering
After Effects team blog
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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Ridley Walker
Re: Been Using Adobe for Over a Decade - I'll Never Go CC
on Aug 3, 2013 at 5:19:00 am

[Todd Kopriva] "Show me where anyone from Adobe said that all current CC applications would save back to CS6.
"


Todd, I've read this several times in this forum and have no idea where it originated. That's why I said it was rumoured.

However, my faith in Adobe doing the right thing for its customers has never been lower in 25 years.


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Dustin Lawhorn
Re: Been Using Adobe for Over a Decade - I'll Never Go CC
on Aug 5, 2013 at 5:16:17 pm

[Ridley Walker] "Todd, I've read this several times in this forum and have no idea where it originated. That's why I said it was rumoured.

However, my faith in Adobe doing the right thing for its customers has never been lower in 25 years.
"


Exactly, and this is where the "return on investment" arguments fall apart. Where are our (established long term customers) returns from investing in Adobe products? From sending others to your products?

-dl


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Todd Kopriva
Re: Been Using Adobe for Over a Decade - I'll Never Go CC
on Aug 3, 2013 at 2:59:15 am

> Didn't Adobe say they'd make sure CS6 worked with Win 8 and OS X Mavericks?


Most of the CS6 applications already work on Mac OSX v10.9 (Mavericks). After Effects doesn't. We need to update a library to make it compatible. While we're at it, we're fixing around a dozen other bugs in a CS6 update that we hope to have out in September.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Todd Kopriva, Adobe Systems Incorporated
After Effects quality engineering
After Effects team blog
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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Todd Kopriva
Re: Been Using Adobe for Over a Decade - I'll Never Go CC
on Oct 4, 2013 at 12:23:31 am

Adobe After Effects CS6 (11.0.3) has been released. This update fixes many crashes and other bugs.

Details: http://adobe.ly/AE_CS6_1103

This update is required to run After Effects CS6 on Mac OSX v10.9 (Mavericks).

After Effects CC (12.1) is due for release soon, and it includes the same fix to enable operation on Mac OSX v10.9 (Mavericks):
http://adobe.ly/AE_CC_12dot1_details

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Todd Kopriva, Adobe Systems Incorporated
After Effects quality engineering
After Effects team blog
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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Todd Kopriva
Re: Been Using Adobe for Over a Decade - I'll Never Go CC
on Oct 22, 2013 at 12:38:06 am

We just released the fix for the After Effects CC (12.0) crash on Mac OS X v10.9 (Mavericks):
http://adobe.ly/AE_CC_1201_Mavericks

IMPORTANT: The After Effects CC (12.0.1) update fixes a crash on Mac OS X (v10.9). There is no need to install this update on any other operating system. After Effects CC (12.1) is coming soon for all operating systems and includes this same fix plus many more features and bug fixes.

Adobe After Effects CS6 (11.0.3) was released a little while ago with this fix, plus fixes for many other crashes and bugs. Details: http://adobe.ly/AE_CS6_1103

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Todd Kopriva, Adobe Systems Incorporated
After Effects quality engineering
After Effects team blog
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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Todd Kopriva
Re: Been Using Adobe for Over a Decade - I'll Never Go CC
on Nov 1, 2013 at 12:28:15 am

Today, we released the After Effects CC (12.1) update, which is now available to all Creative Cloud members.

Among many other changes and fixes, this updates enables After Effects CC to run on Mac OS X v10.9 (Mavericks). This full update makes it unnecessary to install the previous After Effects CC (12.0.1) patch. Unlike the After Effects CC (12.0.1) patch, the After Effects CC (12.1) update can be used to update the trial version of After Effects CC (12.0).

This update also fixes an issue for Spanish users on Windows 8.1. We are working on a patch for After Effects CS6 to fix that same issue for Spanish users on Windows 8.1.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Todd Kopriva, Adobe Systems Incorporated
After Effects quality engineering
After Effects team blog
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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Todd Kopriva
Re: Been Using Adobe for Over a Decade - I'll Never Go CC
on Aug 3, 2013 at 3:02:04 am

> i think that win 8 will be the last os for cs6


I think that is a very premature statement. We are still working on After Effects CS6 to fix bugs and ensure OS compatibility.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Todd Kopriva, Adobe Systems Incorporated
After Effects quality engineering
After Effects team blog
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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Rainer Schubert
Re: Been Using Adobe for Over a Decade - I'll Never Go CC
on Aug 3, 2013 at 5:49:10 pm

And I think, it´s the philosophy and strategy we have to see Adobe in future.
My trust in that "company" is zeroed.


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Dustin Lawhorn
Re: Been Using Adobe for Over a Decade - I'll Never Go CC
on Aug 5, 2013 at 5:06:27 pm

[Andy Field] "As i do this for a living, I'm not concerned about losing my work..."

I am. That's why I back everything up.

[Andy Field] "even at 50 dollars a month this is cheaper than handing over 1500 for the entire suite at once....and about even with the yearly upgrade we purchased.....and our work is the finished product...not the software....you build a house -- you can rent a hammer ...and you still have the house. Want to build another house 5 months late...rent the same hammer."

You could; but, what a bone-headed way to work. No one rents hammers.
Besides, if you decided to not pay for the annual subscription you’re actually paying $75 per-month not $50. If you are paying $50 you are stuck in the annual payment. If you cancel after the first month, Adobe will continue to charge you 50% of the rental cost for the rest of the year. Of course, financially, that means I would stick with the year plan for the entire year--to get the most product from my money. Only downside is there is no exit strategy.

[Andy Field] "Yes there are recurring projects, AE projects you re-use....you can also export XML to other NLE's -- FCP or AVID......and keep that work product on another platform."

Sort of. We all know (from experience) that its clearly not as simple as that sentence makes it look. It’s actually kind of ugly. Even updating premiere projects from CS3 to CS5 is kind of ugly. We did just that for one of our releases. We had to go back through everything edit by edit. What theoretically should have taken a few minutes really took an entire day. Besides, things like “session” files are proprietary and don’t work in other programs at all.

[Andy Field] "a testament to the hard work Adobe software engineers have put into those products.....the company deserves a return on that investment...it's up to customers to decide whether they want to fund those profits AND ongoing development in a way that Adobe thinks will grow their bottom line.....or boycott and force them to reconsider"

Totally agree. I’ve stated before that I love the signature products. As far as the “return on that investment,” isn’t that really what I was already giving them? I was happy with perpetual licensing. I was a returning customer. Isn’t a returning customer really a “return on an investment”? I was even sending customers to Adobe products. How’s that for a return?!? When teaching, every student that walked out of my Motion Graphics classes left hooked on AE. That’s not going to happen anymore... They’ll leave knowing how to run AE CS6, Chyron, Motion, Smoke but when they ask me which one is the smartest investment, I literally cannot say "AE" anymore. I could say “AE CS6” but that is not beneficial for the student in the long run. Instead, I have to say, "sorry, I wish I could help you."

-dl


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Walter Soyka
Re: Been Using Adobe for Over a Decade - I'll Never Go CC
on Aug 6, 2013 at 3:13:42 pm

[Dustin Lawhorn] "No one rents hammers."

Firstly, people DO rent (or lease) tools all the time. You're right that no one rents cheap hand tools like hammers, but they do rent more specialized tools like rotary hammers. Check out the United Rentals catalog sometime.

Secondly, I think the traditional tool analogy is false. The "software is a hammer" analogy misses a really important distinction: hammers don't need updates. My little boy will use my hammer someday, and it'll work just as well for him as it worked for me. The same cannot be said of the software I'm using today. Wood and nails aren't changing; hardware and OSes and camera and deliverable formats are.

I'm not saying that there's no value in the "I want to own my tools" argument, but I don't think the analogies that are used so often to dismiss the subscription model really apply.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Dustin Lawhorn
Re: Been Using Adobe for Over a Decade - I'll Never Go CC
on Aug 6, 2013 at 5:30:42 pm

[Walter Soyka] "Firstly, people DO rent (or lease) tools all the time. You're right that no one rents cheap hand tools like hammers, but they do rent more specialized tools like rotary hammers. ...

Secondly, I think the traditional tool analogy is false. ...
I'm not saying that there's no value in the "I want to own my tools" argument, but I don't think the analogies that are used so often to dismiss the subscription model really apply."


Walter, I've been saying this exact thing for weeks now (edit: I should add that I don't think the "utility" analogies floating around work either). I think we've been saying the same things but somehow have not been coming to the same conclusions.

I've been asking for accessibility and an exit strategy that I can control. The subscription model does not currently offer what I need. Hopefully, Adobe will address our concerns.

-dl


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Kevin Hanley
Re: Been Using Adobe for Over a Decade - I'll Never Go CC
on Aug 6, 2013 at 6:35:53 pm

Apologies if this has been covered, but Adobe saying that $50/mo. or $75/mo. is a better deal than buying the full suite is a blatant lie. You don't buy the full suite each time it's released. You buy it once, and like most of you, I did that forever ago and have bought every upgrade since, adding more seats each time. But the upgrades are what, $400 for Production Premium, maybe a little under that? And....they don't release annually, so putting out the idea that they have been on a 12 month release cycle is incorrect.

I was quoted $70/mo. recently by Adobe, so let's go with that. $840 per year. So that would cost double what an upgrade seat cost, and more than double since they aren't on 12 month release cycles.

Sound like a good deal now?

Kevin
CVWmedia
Norman, OK


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Todd Kopriva
Re: Been Using Adobe for Over a Decade - I'll Never Go CC
on Aug 6, 2013 at 6:41:38 pm

> And....they don't release annually, so putting out the idea that they have been on a 12 month release cycle is incorrect.


CS5 was released in spring of 2010.
CS5.5 was released in spring of 2011.
CS6 was released in spring 2012.
CC was released in spring 2013.

Additional CC update releases are coming frequently, including (according to the current plan) one each this fall, winter, and spring for After Effects---the only product that I can speak for.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Todd Kopriva, Adobe Systems Incorporated
After Effects quality engineering
After Effects team blog
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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Kevin Hanley
Re: Been Using Adobe for Over a Decade - I'll Never Go CC
on Aug 6, 2013 at 6:44:46 pm

>CS5 was released in spring of 2010.
>CS5.5 was released in spring of 2011.
>CS6 was released in spring 2012.
>CC was released in spring 2013.

5.5 wasn't a full version release, and I have no idea about CC (and won't any time in the near future) but I suspect it's not either.

Kevin
CVWmedia
Norman, OK


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Todd Kopriva
Re: Been Using Adobe for Over a Decade - I'll Never Go CC
on Aug 6, 2013 at 6:48:47 pm

> 5.5 wasn't a full version release


Yes, it was. I acknowledge that it was poorly named.

Here are the new and changed features in After Effects CS5.5:
http://blogs.adobe.com/aftereffects/2011/04/after-effects-cs5-5-whats-new-a...

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Todd Kopriva, Adobe Systems Incorporated
After Effects quality engineering
After Effects team blog
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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Kevin Hanley
Re: Been Using Adobe for Over a Decade - I'll Never Go CC
on Aug 6, 2013 at 6:50:56 pm

Leaving 2/3/4 out, let's call you correct on this point. So you're conceding that Adobe is "only" doubling our price at these numbers.

By the way, we stuck with Premiere while Apple was killing you guys with Final Cut. You're welcome.

Kevin
CVWmedia
Norman, OK


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Carl Sollenberger
Re: Been Using Adobe for Over a Decade - I'll Never Go CC
on Aug 6, 2013 at 7:07:03 pm

Hey Dustin, I'm not most people - I don't rent my tools.
Not my core set of tools anyhow.... I own those.
I don't care how anyone spins it - I'm not in to what CC has to offer as far as packaging/price/renting.

I may one day HAVE to go CC... sure there's that. But instead of doing it with happiness and excitement - I'll do it pissed off. And all that loyalty that I had to Adobe - leaving Final Cut when Premier wasn't even considered a true pro program, using AE since basically it's conception, all that is out the window as soon a viable alternative comes along.

Why am I venting? I'm hoping that Adobe will listen to a VERY long time customer like me, and take my words into consideration. Don't try to debate with your customers - LISTEN to them and learn what you can.

I'm not a minority in this. And as for you guys who like renting CC - I am truly happy for you - and I mean that. Adobe is a smart company - they could service both people like you and people like me at the same time if they wanted - and they would make bank doing it.



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Dustin Lawhorn
Re: Been Using Adobe for Over a Decade - I'll Never Go CC
on Aug 6, 2013 at 7:55:52 pm

[Carl Sollenberger] "Hey Dustin, I'm not most people - I don't rent my tools.
Not my core set of tools anyhow.... I own those.
I don't care how anyone spins it - I'm not in to what CC has to offer as far as packaging/price/renting."


Carl, you've misquoted me somehow. I don't have CC and quite clearly said I will not have CC under their current subscription model. To quote myself from above: I've been asking for accessibility and an exit strategy that I can control. The subscription model does not currently offer what I need. Hopefully, Adobe will address our concerns.

In my defense, I simply agreed with Walter's statement that we shouldn't use the "rent your tools" metaphors.

-dl


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Alex Serban
Re: Been Using Adobe for Over a Decade - I'll Never Go CC
on Aug 9, 2013 at 3:47:12 pm

I appreciate all of the opinions and analogy breakdowns people are contributing to this thread. I see the merits of the subscription model in that it's cheaper than buying a license, always current, and it provides ALL the software in the Adobe family for me to use. Without this model, I would still be working in CS4 because I can't afford $1,800 every two years to upgrade.

Adobe provides a year long contract because from a business point of view, you need to reliably measure your income so that you can project for future growth. If everyone just paid monthly, a large number of people could drop Adobe at once, or only pay for a month at a time a few times a year, and that is not fair to Adobe.

I think the subscription model is innovative in that it provides more to consumers for less, combats piracy (the incentive to illegal acquire this software is significantly reduced), and has enabled people like me to continue to learn and grow in this amazing field. The rather hyperbolic views of distrust expressed on this thread are pretty unfair.

With all that said, Adobe should listen to its customers and provide what some want - full licenses - even though it is a poorer deal for them. Also backwards compatibility between CC and CS6 sounds like a must-have.


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