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50% Cancellation Fee? REALLY?

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Mike Jackson
50% Cancellation Fee? REALLY?
on Jul 31, 2013 at 8:47:49 pm

So I've been pretty cheezed about the whole mandatory CC thing since day one. So many things about it, which have been debated repeatedly on this forum, are just Not Cool. But I have a discount offer that expires today, so in a moment of weakness, knowing I'll probably have to knuckle under eventually, I went to their site and started the process to sign on for a year.

And I stopped dead when I read in big bold letters that if you cancel after the first month, Adobe will continue to charge you 50% OF THE RENTAL COST FOR THE REST OF THE YEAR. Just typing that kind of makes me want to throw up.

First up, how dare they.

Secondly, I need to call them out on how they've been obfuscating a lot of this. As an editor, I was REALLY looking forward to switching to Premiere from FCP Classic. And Adobe's two biggest answers to people like me who don't like the Cloud are a) you can cancel any time, and b) you can save backwards-compatible files and open them in CS6.

Well in fact you get charged 50% for cancelling, and Premiere is one of their apps that does NOT support transferring back to CS6. So that's a load of *expletive*, and makes Premiere a non-starter in my books.

All that, plus Adobe's promise they were going to 'fine-tune' the business model to try to address some of their customers' concerns has still failed to materialize.

What the hell Adobe? Never before have I seen such a wide divergence between the quality of a company's products (fantastic) and the way the suits treat their customers (horrific). Before today I was just depressed about the idea of going to Adobe CC. Today it actually makes me feel disgusted and furious.


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: 50% Cancellation Fee? REALLY?
on Jul 31, 2013 at 10:27:08 pm

[Mike Jackson] "As an editor, I was REALLY looking forward to switching to Premiere from FCP Classic. "

god but yes and let's all please quietly shed a tear for that one.
That dream is done mate.
Someone pointed out that it was always a loss leader - but whatever complex arguments were put to management around PPro, its proximity to AE, the anywhere proposition for heavy iron money - once the brass decided to force subscription, adobe were instantly at a core strategy of legacy asset rent.

They're not renting muse, they're not renting edge, they're not renting dreamweaver even, they're definitely not renting premiere - they are renting photoshop, indesign, vector sort of, and motion graphics - adobe are scrunched up in a ball trying to squeeze out an identifiable hard core subscription base number that lack mobility.

Adobe are, as we speak, in the process of trying to figure out who they can definitively sit on and shaft for cash.
They have a really grandiose board who were robbed of flash hegemony - and so hello identifying the remaining mugging prospects.

Such a grand company in the best traditions of John Knoll. How proud he must be of this left over creature.

But - that is this year's exercise for adobe under Shantanyu Narayen. It is, for better or worse, their goal.

whittling out the people who can actually leave.

So fun times - all that said - the editing advancement we watched grow under mooney, along with anywhere goes up in flames off the back of the retreat to the available, turn the screws, rental monopoly position.

We're shagged frankly - premiere is a thing dying a market death for the absolute worst reasons.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Paul King
Re: 50% Cancellation Fee? REALLY?
on Jul 31, 2013 at 11:47:07 pm

Premiere only just became a reasonably good piece of software.

It constantly crashed when it was 32bit.
If was a work in progress from CS4 to CS5.5 and was finally finished by CS6.

So it's not like it has a history of being a competent editor, other so many people wouldn't have been using FCP.

So now that it works, they want to rent it. And as you say Mike, doing a really bad job of it. I would actually have no problem renting it if they were The Foundry. Those guys know how to make an app without quality issues or caveats. But Adobe? They can not be trusted to do the right thing to put all your eggs in their basket.



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Tyler Wiethorn
Re: 50% Cancellation Fee? REALLY?
on Aug 1, 2013 at 12:24:59 am

[Aindreas Gallagher] "premiere is a thing dying a market death for the absolute worst reasons."

Because AVID is a shining star of success and FCPX is growing leaps and bounds in market share?

Point is, none of this has any affect on the actual operation of the application. I use the one that best fits my needs on a given day or project.


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Tyler Wiethorn
Re: 50% Cancellation Fee? REALLY?
on Aug 1, 2013 at 12:20:23 am

How is this different from any other long term commitment for service?

Your apartment or car lease, your cellphone contract, your satellite TV and internet service, gym membership... All of these come with steep penalties for canceling the agreement early. Adobe does offer a month-to-month option, but of course it costs more. Just as it would for a month-to-month lease, an un-subsidized cellphone plan, and gym membership.

If you don't agree with the CC model, that's a completely fair opinion. But outrage over a very standard cancellation penalty is like getting angry about the sticky floors in the movie theater instead of the $8 dollar bag of pop corn.

(Besides, do a little math. I don't know what your discount is, but I will guess it's the $30 per month offer. If you cancel at 6 months, you'll pay a fee of $90, plus your monthly fee totaling $180, that's $270. That comes to an actual payment of $45 a month for 6 months. Cheaper than the regular price of $50, and much cheaper than the month-to-month price of $75. If you think you will keep it at least 6 months, then it's still a good deal.)


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Mike Jackson
Re: 50% Cancellation Fee? REALLY?
on Aug 1, 2013 at 2:55:32 am

Well, here's one major difference between Adobe and utilities - The services most utilities provide have continuing costs: The gas that flows to my house, the employees working at your gym, these are ongoing expenses. Adobe doesn't HAVE ongoing expenses to keep the current version of a piece of software functioning on my computer. It's DONE, it costs Adobe nothing to *maintain* it on my system. I'm not bleeding pennies from Adobe every day that I use CS6. The only costs they incur are for technical support, and developing the next version. And those are expenses that every other software company does just fine maintaining without a subscription service.

Frankly I think cancellation fees are bogus for ANY of these companies. It's a straight-up cash grab, a method to strong-arm you into not switching service providers. I think the only companies that have a leg to stand on with it are cellphone providers, if they subsidized your phone. But once that's paid off, they have NO justification for coninuing to charge cancellation fees, other than greed.



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Dustin Lawhorn
Re: 50% Cancellation Fee? REALLY?
on Aug 1, 2013 at 3:14:09 am

[Tyler Wiethorn] "Your apartment or car lease, your cellphone contract, your satellite TV and internet service, gym membership... All of these come with steep penalties for canceling the agreement early. "

Yes. And you can pretty easily figure out where they justify those cancellation fees on those items you listed.

Your apartment
The reason you pay a fee for breach of contract is because you have interrupted their lease periods and left the space unoccupied. You pay the cleanup fees, maintenance and also left them unexpectedly without a tenant, etc.

or car lease,
You are paying a penalty based upon wear and tear on the car. The car is no longer in the condition it was in when you began the lease. You are really paying the difference of the two separate price points. (when you signed the lease, vs current value after you breached the lease). There is devaluation there.

your cellphone contract,
You have amassed fees and used the bandwidth of the corporation that you bought airtime (data limits) from. That is a 2 year contract (usually) that includes the negotiation of the ownership of that phone, too. After that, they really have no justification for the steep fees they charge for breach of contract (the fee should be a lot less severe IMHO)

your satellite TV and internet service,
Again, you’ve bought data limits and bandwidth. And they usually are reinvesting that money into increasing their infrastructure. My internet has tripled in speed in the past year but my negotiated monthly fee has stayed the same.

gym membership...
You are paying partially for access to the facilities, partially for wear and tear on the equipment and maintenance of the facilities, partially for space in the facility (lockers and whatnot), and of course paying something towards their utilities (Lights, A/C, water, etc.)

All of these come with steep penalties for canceling the agreement early.

Exactly, and the fees make some kind of sense to me. But you’re not paying for anything towards the value of the software with Adobe. You’re ONLY paying for access to your work. That's a horse of a different color...

-dl


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Tom Sefton
Re: 50% Cancellation Fee? REALLY?
on Aug 1, 2013 at 8:46:40 am

Hate to say it, but if you purchased cs6 master collection outright, you wouldn't get 50% back from adobe in the first year if you decided you didn't like it.

I'm not defending a subscription based model, and it's looking more and more likely that we will move to being a smoke and fcpx house. 15 years of adobe and I'm keeping cs6 until it becomes unusable or obsolete and then leaving.

I really hope someone changes something in adobe.


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Rainer Schubert
Re: 50% Cancellation Fee? REALLY?
on Aug 1, 2013 at 10:07:15 am

...right: No 50% back from Adobe
...but: Ability to sell the complete box for 100%


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Tom Sefton
Re: 50% Cancellation Fee? REALLY?
on Aug 1, 2013 at 10:10:05 am

Very true. Residual values in cs6 boxsets should be steadily climbing....


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David Smith
Re: 50% Cancellation Fee? REALLY?
on Aug 1, 2013 at 9:38:03 pm

[Tom Sefton] "Hate to say it, but if you purchased cs6 master collection outright, you wouldn't get 50% back from adobe in the first year if you decided you didn't like it."

That's true, but you could sell that copy of CS6 on eBay, probably for more than 50% of what you paid for it. I'm pretty sure you can't sell or transfer a remaining subscription (and who'd want to buy it anyway?) Among the other problems I have with it, the subscription model circumvents the "First Sale Doctrine".

I'm keeping my copy of CS6 until it no longer works too. I also really hope something changes in Adobe soon.


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