FORUMS: list search recent posts

AE Alternatives?

COW Forums : Adobe Creative Cloud Debate

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
Richard Cardonna
AE Alternatives?
on May 9, 2013 at 2:27:53 pm

I will not be joining the cloud (which in reality is not a cloud) because i will not be subject to a greedy overlord. However i was really looking forward to AE intergration with Cinema 4 but will forgo this. I still have cs6 and combustion but would like to know about alternatives. like fusion,toxic and other out there.

I mostly use Ae for effects and graphics was hoping to dwelve more deeply into compositing and 3d which i can still do in part with cs6 but would like to know what else is out there.

Richard


Return to posts index

Tim Vaughan
Re: AE Alternatives?
on May 9, 2013 at 3:03:07 pm

Motion... And I think it's like $50 or something. I do know C4d integrates with Motion--similar to how it does with Ae. I'm not sure how well, and I doubt it's as great, but the option to save as a motion file is available in c4d. I've seen some great things done in motion. Check out Simon's motionvfx.com for a bunch of really good stuff. It's templates, but it'll give you an idea of capability.

Tim
Apple XRAID, XServe, 2008 2x3 GHz Quad-Core MacPro, Macbook Pro, XSAN, FCP Studio (7), AVID Media Composer, Adobe Production Premium, Maxon Cinema 4d, AJA Kona 3, Flanders Scientific Monitors, Panasonic HPX250's, Kessler Crane, Glidecam.....
Beer fridge fully loaded.


Return to posts index

Petros Kolyvas
Re: AE Alternatives?
on May 9, 2013 at 3:55:34 pm

Motion for simple things. It can do much more complex things (we've rotoscoped and comped a whole video in it!) but it isn't ideal.

If you're really adventurous for more complex work, there's always Blender. It has a steep learning curve but can work as a node-based compositor, already has a pretty stellar camera tracker, and modelling is well, it's bailiwick.
Blender link 1: http://www.redsharknews.com/post/item/590-blender-jack-of-all-trades,-but-i...
(Video):





I imagine, with those two, you really could have many bases covered. Whether we like CC or not, open-source software may end up becoming where it's at sooner than later.

In my opinion, Adobe should have ported their software to a Linux platform (Ubuntu Studio or Linux Mint or something similarly accessible) before forcing us into the Cloud. One option benefits everyone, the other, more them than us in the long run.

At least there are options!

--
There is no intuitive interface, not even the nipple. It's all learned. - Bruce Ediger


Return to posts index


Dan Stewart
Re: AE Alternatives?
on May 9, 2013 at 7:18:34 pm

Is that a penis at 2.41?



Return to posts index

Petros Kolyvas
Re: AE Alternatives?
on May 9, 2013 at 8:25:46 pm

Kind of looks like it doesn't it. Never noticed before.

Still Blender power is pretty cool no? All the grading was done in Blender as well.

--
There is no intuitive interface, not even the nipple. It's all learned. - Bruce Ediger


Return to posts index

Dan Stewart
Re: AE Alternatives?
on May 10, 2013 at 3:01:15 pm

yes it's much more impressive than I thought - I'll be having a closer look at it. The software.



Return to posts index


Craig Seeman
Re: AE Alternatives?
on May 9, 2013 at 4:16:11 pm

Hopefully Apple will rise to the opportunity and make some improvements to Motion that would make some AE artists happy. Apple would have to believe it would push Mac sales I suspect since I think that's their business model. It would probably have to be strong enough to motivate some PC AE users who are looking for an alternative to move to the Mac.

Another big issue is there are some that are handed AE projects so someone may have to step forward with a translator to the extent that could happen. None of this will happen quickly but just as FCPX has come a long way in two years, Apple has a moment to show Motion is important. Let's hope for a significant improvement with a Motion X in the next few months.



Return to posts index

Carl Sollenberger
Re: AE Alternatives?
on May 9, 2013 at 4:49:09 pm

It's going to happen.
I may even switch back to Mac if Apple provides software that can compete with AE. I'm not upset with Adobe offering the creative cloud option, but I am very upset that they took away the ownership option...
But here's the deal. Software is only getting better and better. There will be other options for folks that don't want to rent software. Why, because they will see a huge opportunity to make money.



Return to posts index

Petros Kolyvas
Re: AE Alternatives?
on May 9, 2013 at 5:00:32 pm

And if you look at where Lightworks (and Blender above) are heading, it's amazing those tools are available for little to no cost; this only reaffirms your point that for those willing to sell viable alternatives, there's a giant, wide-open opportunity here.

--
There is no intuitive interface, not even the nipple. It's all learned. - Bruce Ediger


Return to posts index

Gary Huff
Re: AE Alternatives?
on May 9, 2013 at 5:01:01 pm

[Petros Kolyvas] "And if you look at where Lightworks (and Blender above) are heading, it's amazing those tools are available for little to no cost"

Lightworks requires a $60/year subscription to be useable for most people.


Return to posts index

Petros Kolyvas
Re: AE Alternatives?
on May 9, 2013 at 5:04:36 pm

[Gary Huff] "Lightworks requires a $60/year subscription to be useable for most people."

Lightworks has a reason for their "pro" subscription: ProRes and other 3rd party support aren't free (neither are a ton of other codecs we require for our daily work that they simply couldn't offer "for free.") But you're right the model is the same if you "need" those options and some of "those options" I couldn't live without (hardware support / OMF/AAF/ etc.).

I do wonder how they'll make the Pro version viable on the Mac where once you can decode Quicktime you can decode ProRes and DNxHD if you have it installed but that's for another thread.

Back to AE: It would be nice if Motion really stepped up to the plate - I find it much quicker for simple things as opposed to AE. It doesn't scale really well and I've never found it to be as stable (even though AE isn't the most stable software I've ever used) as AE once you start to push it.

--
There is no intuitive interface, not even the nipple. It's all learned. - Bruce Ediger


Return to posts index

Jim Wiseman
Re: AE Alternatives?
on May 9, 2013 at 5:13:59 pm

I think the only thing about the Lightworks model that is the same is that you are paying on a schedule for the codecs. They are passing on their costs. You are not being asked to rent their software. Their software will not disappear if you don't pay forever. That is a very important distinction.

Jim Wiseman
Sony PMW-EX1,Pana AJ-D810 DVCPro, DVX-100, Nikon D7000, Final Cut Studio 2 and 3, Media 100 Suite 2.1, Premiere Pro 5.5 and 6.0, AJA ioHD, AJA Kona LHi, Avid MC, Hexacore MacPro 3.33 Ghz 24Gb RAM GTX-285 120GB SSD, Macbook Pro 17" 2011 2.2 Ghz Quadcore i7 8Gb SSD, G5 Quadcore PCIe


Return to posts index

Gary Huff
Re: AE Alternatives?
on May 9, 2013 at 5:18:21 pm

[Jim Wiseman] "I think the only thing about the Lightworks model that is the same is that you are paying on a schedule for the codecs. They are passing on their costs. You are not being asked to rent their software. Their software will not disappear if you don't pay forever. That is a very important distinction."

You are correct...however the license fee includes decoding. I primarily work with ProRes, AVCHD, and XD Cam. I wouldn't be able to open an old project with Lightworks if I didn't have decoding of these formats working once I stopped paying yearly.

I do occasionally shoot DVCPRO HD, so that would work.


Return to posts index

Petros Kolyvas
Re: AE Alternatives?
on May 9, 2013 at 5:31:44 pm

I fully agree, I just didn't want to engage in a semantic "how is this different from CC" debate. :)

--
There is no intuitive interface, not even the nipple. It's all learned. - Bruce Ediger


Return to posts index

Gary Huff
Re: AE Alternatives?
on May 9, 2013 at 5:17:18 pm

[Petros Kolyvas] "Lightworks has a reason for their "pro" subscription: ProRes and other 3rd party support aren't free (neither are a ton of other codecs we require for our daily work that they simply couldn't offer "for free.") But you're right the model is the same if you "need" those options and some of "those options" I couldn't live without (hardware support / OMF/AAF/ etc.)."

Yeah, I'm not faulting them at all. There's a reason why it's very difficult to make low cost NLE software...it's not sexy, it's difficult, and you have to pay licensing fees out the ass.

But I think people aren't aware that Lightworks Free Edition isn't very useable.


Return to posts index

Andy Field
Re: AE Alternatives?
on May 9, 2013 at 6:24:59 pm

nothing is free -- people need to pay their bills, feed their families -- open source is crippled to entice you into paying full freight if you need the professional add ons...does anyone on this forum give away their work?

Andy Field
FieldVision Productions
N. Bethesda, Maryland 20852


Return to posts index

Tim Kolb
Re: AE Alternatives?
on May 9, 2013 at 5:41:24 pm

[Gary Huff] "Lightworks requires a $60/year subscription to be useable for most people."

If you're against the subscription concept, it's still a subscription...but 5.00/mth for one application vs 30.00/mth for 19 applications...even though most users would legitimately utilize 4 or 5 of them...

I bought the Lightworks license...but then, Creative Cloud isn't freaking me out either...

TimK,
Director, Consultant
Kolb Productions,

Adobe Certified Instructor


Return to posts index

Gary Huff
Re: AE Alternatives?
on May 9, 2013 at 6:19:53 pm

[Tim Kolb] "I bought the Lightworks license...but then, Creative Cloud isn't freaking me out either..."

I've been on Cloud since last year, so I'm not freaked out either. I'm simply pointing it out for those who aren't aware that Lightworks really isn't an alternative if you have a thing about paying a subscription.


Return to posts index

Tim Kolb
Re: AE Alternatives?
on May 9, 2013 at 6:30:30 pm

[Gary Huff] "I'm simply pointing it out for those who aren't aware that Lightworks really isn't an alternative if you have a thing about paying a subscription."

I should have made it clearer that I was agreeing with you...

TimK,
Director, Consultant
Kolb Productions,

Adobe Certified Instructor


Return to posts index

Richard Cardonna
Re: AE Alternatives?
on May 9, 2013 at 8:46:29 pm

Its not the ssme as cc. Think $60 per year vs $50 prr month.

No montly activation vs monthly activation

Keep the software vs losing it.

Its not the subscription its the the of subscription.

Richars


Return to posts index

John Heagy
Re: AE Alternatives?
on May 9, 2013 at 8:25:40 pm

The best way for Apple to entice people to move to Motion over AE is to roll Motion into FCPX.

People will give it a chance if all the tools are at their finger tips instead of round tripping or endless export/imports.

John


Return to posts index

Richard Cardonna
Re: AE Alternatives?
on May 9, 2013 at 8:51:16 pm

What about fusion or toxic? How do they fare?

Richard


Return to posts index

Petros Kolyvas
Re: AE Alternatives?
on May 9, 2013 at 8:54:40 pm

Toxik was integrated into Maya, which puts it in the league of Nuke price-wise I think.

--
There is no intuitive interface, not even the nipple. It's all learned. - Bruce Ediger


Return to posts index

Shawn Miller
Re: AE Alternatives?
on May 10, 2013 at 1:16:47 am

[Petros Kolyvas] "Toxik was integrated into Maya, which puts it in the league of Nuke price-wise I think."

Toxic is called Maya Composite now. I think it ships with every version of Maya... so the minimum price is $3,500.00 I think.

Shawn



Return to posts index

Joseph W. Bourke
Re: AE Alternatives?
on May 10, 2013 at 1:47:31 am

It also shipped free with 3DS Max 2011 - I have a copy of it installed, but haven't played around with it enough to have any solid opinion on it. It certainly looks cool, and has some navigation features which are, shall we say, futuristic...

Joe Bourke
Owner/Creative Director
Bourke Media
http://www.bourkemedia.com


Return to posts index

Shawn Miller
Re: AE Alternatives?
on May 10, 2013 at 2:54:49 am

[Joseph W. Bourke] "It also shipped free with 3DS Max 2011 - I have a copy of it installed, but haven't played around with it enough to have any solid opinion on it. It certainly looks cool, and has some navigation features which are, shall we say, futuristic..."

I didn't know that. I was interested in Toxik from the beginning, but waited too long... I thought Autodesk was going to use it to replace Combustion... bad guess huh? :-) If you do get curious and try it out, I hope you'll let us know what you think of it.

Shawn



Return to posts index

Joseph W. Bourke
Re: AE Alternatives?
on May 10, 2013 at 1:46:39 pm

I'll do that, Shawn. I was a Combustion beta tester for the first two versions, and got burned on that EOL, but fortunately it was a corporate license at the facility I worked at, and I didn't lose any money. We were also in the early stages of moving to AE, so it wasn't a catastrophe.

Joe Bourke
Owner/Creative Director
Bourke Media
http://www.bourkemedia.com


Return to posts index

Shawn Miller
Re: AE Alternatives?
on May 10, 2013 at 1:06:56 am

[John Heagy] "The best way for Apple to entice people to move to Motion over AE is to roll Motion into FCPX.

People will give it a chance if all the tools are at their finger tips instead of round tripping or endless export/imports.

John"


This might be a sound strategy for editors, but motion graphics and VFX artists don't generally care that much about editing applications. That's why so many of them have adopted Premiere Pro over the years; many of the same plugins work in both Ae and Pr, and the integration between the two is very good. Cutting and comping VFX sequences between those applications is about as good as you're going to get in the sub 20k space. If Apple wants to woo AE users, Motion has to become a lot more flexible and a lot more powerful, IMO. Not saying that Apple can't do it, I'm just not sure they're that interested. Why else kill shake and virtually abandon Motion?

Shawn



Return to posts index

Shawn Miller
Re: AE Alternatives?
on May 10, 2013 at 12:48:54 am

[Tim Vaughan] " I do know C4d integrates with Motion--similar to how it does with Ae. I'm not sure how well, and I doubt it's as great, but the option to save as a motion file is available in c4d."

C4D can create a special .motn project that puts rendered passes (layers) in a comp with blend modes properly applied. It can do the same for Nuke, Fusion, shake and AE projects as well. However, AE CS6 can actually write out .C4D files complete with cameras, lights, animation, 2d planes and 3D coordinate data. So, live action scenes tracked in AE can be exported directly into Cinema4D... that's with CS6 and Cinema4D r14.

Shawn



Return to posts index

Shawn Miller
Re: AE Alternatives?
on May 10, 2013 at 12:32:23 am

[Richard Cardonna] "
I mostly use Ae for effects and graphics was hoping to dwelve more deeply into compositing and 3d which i can still do in part with cs6 but would like to know what else is out there."


Truthfully it depends on what you do and how far you want your AE replacement to scale. The short answer is that there really isn't a reasonably priced replacement for AE, as most similar applications are good at motion graphics OR compositing. AE is great at motion graphics and very good at VFX. Motion gets close in MoGraph capability up to an intermediate level, but falls short when you need to extend it's capabilities via scripting. AE's scripting engine is where the real power of the application is, that, combined with it's built in tools and extensive ecosystem of 3d party plugins... that's what makes it the industry standard for motion graphics work. On the VFX side, AE gets a lot of use for UI simulation, noise and grain simulation, keying, finishing and animation. There's not doubt that Motion is powerful, but it has a long way to go to catch up with AE... and now that AE ships with Cinema4D Lite, it's even more powerful.

For straight VFX work, Blender 3D is powerful and free, but the learning curve is a bit steep and doesn't really have many plugins. Nuke and Fusion are probably the next most affordable packages at $2,500.00 + $1,000.00 per year maintenance plans. They are both very powerful with some motion graphics capability, and they both have pretty decent plugin ecosystems. You might consider Smoke... but I don't think it's nearly as powerful as AE for motion graphics... I believe most people use it for editing and finishing. I think that's pretty much it for anything under 20k.

Shawn



Return to posts index

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
© 2017 CreativeCOW.net All Rights Reserved
[TOP]