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Thoughts about Adobes earning report...

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Rainer Schubert
Thoughts about Adobes earning report...
on Jun 24, 2013 at 7:45:47 pm

might be interesting for the one or other:
http://beta.fool.com/markhibben/2013/06/24/adobes-candy-coated-earning s-report/38244/?source=eogyholnk0000001


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David Lawrence
Re: Thoughts about Adobes earning report...
on Jun 24, 2013 at 7:50:08 pm

Here's the fixed link:

http://bit.ly/11Zt8pB

_______________________
David Lawrence
art~media~design~research
propaganda.com
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Rainer Schubert
Re: Thoughts about Adobes earning report...
on Jun 25, 2013 at 1:30:09 am

ups


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Tim Vaughan
Re: Thoughts about Adobes earning report...
on Jun 24, 2013 at 7:51:14 pm

"I'm pointing out the deficiencies in Adobe's financial performance not to argue that Creative Cloud is a failure but that its success has not been demonstrated."

Pretty much says it all right there....

Tim
Apple XRAID, XServe, 2008 2x3 GHz Quad-Core MacPro, Macbook Pro, XSAN, Dell Studio xps PC's
FCP Studio (7), AVID Media Composer, Adobe Production Premium, Maxon Cinema 4d, AJA Kona 3, Flanders Scientific Monitors, Panasonic HPX250's, Kessler Crane, Glidecam.....
Beer fridge fully loaded.


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Mark Dobson
Re: Thoughts about Adobes earning report...
on Jun 24, 2013 at 8:23:39 pm

The thought that by withholding joining the CC for a year customers might get Adobe to reconsider its determination to steamroll its software subscription model onto it's custom base is an interesting one.

However I think most people have already gone for the short term reward of acquiring the shiny baubles being offered as an inducement to sign their consumer rights away. But it certainly stopped me in my tracks, finger on the button, until the situation either resolves itself or as the article Rainer Schubert provided a link to implies, Adobe implodes, hoist by it's own petard.


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: Thoughts about Adobes earning report...
on Jun 24, 2013 at 9:37:52 pm

I really can't overstate how incredibly good an idea it is for people to hold off for a while - Adobe are extremely investor/analyst sensitive to the subscription sign up rate right now.

If people can manage to put, and keep, their hands in their pockets until the close of november, the terms of the adobe offering might well noticeably improve.
(correct me if I'm wrong - but as part of the last investor release - my reading was that Q4 closes out at the end of november.)

It's not rocket science - if they don't hit 1.25M at the end of Q4, they are going to start getting some probably rather serious, probing questions from analysts and investors about this whole zany scheme.

http://www.adobe2014.tumblr.com
#adobe2014

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Ridley Walker
Re: Thoughts about Adobes earning report...
on Jun 24, 2013 at 9:56:12 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "I really can't overstate how incredibly good an idea it is for people to hold off for a while - Adobe are extremely investor/analyst sensitive to the subscription sign up rate right now."

I know the conversation here has diminished because there's not much more to say. After upgrading loyally each cycle for more than 20 years, I am holding off.

Adobe won't be getting any more of my money until I know which way the wind blows.

I'm quite content to use CS6 and explore other options for the next 12 months.


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Tim Vaughan
Re: Thoughts about Adobes earning report...
on Jun 24, 2013 at 11:51:50 pm

I agree. For the first time in quite a many years, I'm not upgrading to this credit card or creative cloud or whatever. 6 does what is needed and it sucks that to get a more stable and updated version requires constantly inserting more coin in to the slot, but whatever. I probably have 4 years before I'd absolutely need to upgrade, and that's a bit of change in my pocket. More money to the other vendors and plugins....

Tim
Apple XRAID, XServe, 2008 2x3 GHz Quad-Core MacPro, Macbook Pro, XSAN, Dell Studio xps PC's
FCP Studio (7), AVID Media Composer, Adobe Production Premium, Maxon Cinema 4d, AJA Kona 3, Flanders Scientific Monitors, Panasonic HPX250's, Kessler Crane, Glidecam.....
Beer fridge fully loaded.


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Ricardo Marty
Re: Thoughts about Adobes earning report...
on Jun 25, 2013 at 1:00:28 am

Until adobe comes down to earth i will not give them a penny.

Ricardo


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david aretsky
Re: Thoughts about Adobes earning report...
on Jun 25, 2013 at 7:46:08 pm

The day Adobe sells a perpetual license for CS7 is the day they will get my upgrade $$$, until then they will get nothing from me again.

Hopefully enough people will not buy into CC.

dangerd


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Rich Rubasch
Re: Thoughts about Adobes earning report...
on Jun 25, 2013 at 9:25:34 pm

NOT UPGRADING...I have 6 Mac seats of Production Premium right now.

Rich Rubasch
Tilt Media Inc.
Video Production, Post, Studio Sound Stage
Founder/President/Editor/Designer/Animator
http://www.tiltmedia.com


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Paul King
Re: Thoughts about Adobes earning report...
on Jun 26, 2013 at 9:37:21 am

I dont see how Adobe can turn this around now. Even if they completely back-flipped they upgrade version on offer probably isn't strong enough to get any momentum.

They just didn't do enough to warrant an upgrade to CC was the logical choice for their revenue stream.

All talk and no action. Business as usual.



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T. Brown
Re: Thoughts about Adobes earning report...
on Jun 26, 2013 at 2:34:54 pm

I, unfortunately, jumped in thinking that it would make my life easier with not having to deal with updates, serials and such on our small network only recently realizing that there is currently no support for enterprise environments.

I'm still trying to wrap my head around that one. What was going on at Adobe for them to completely overlook their enterprise customers and not have considered firewalled/proxy situations in writing their management tools!?!?


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Kevin Monahan
Re: Thoughts about Adobes earning report...
on Jun 26, 2013 at 10:27:40 pm

HI T. Brown,
We do support enterprises with Creative Cloud. Please see this link: http://www.adobe.com/products/creativecloud/enterprise.html

Thanks,
Kevin

Kevin Monahan
Social Support Lead
Adobe After Effects
Adobe Premiere Pro
Adobe Systems, Inc.
Follow Me on Twitter!


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T. Brown
Re: Thoughts about Adobes earning report...
on Jun 27, 2013 at 12:54:10 am

Thanks for responding Kevin.

Let me clarify; I'm well aware of Adobe's support for enterprise groups, but I think C.C. doesn't quite live up to expectations in that regard.

I have been in contact with Adobe and they are looking for solutions for us, but it raises the question: how can support for proxies be left out of C.C.? That doesn't really lend itself to being enterprise friendly.

With the documentation that I've received that have had glaring omissions to peculiar troubleshooting tips, "disable authentication proxy servers" I'm beginning to think that C.C. was released a bit half-baked. Combine that with the slideshow that's circulating the web showing Adobe's focus may or may not be on their creative products in the future, and it has me wondering if the F.U.D. that's been rising to the surface lately doesn't have some merit.


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Kevin Monahan
Re: Thoughts about Adobes earning report...
on Jun 28, 2013 at 6:58:29 pm

Hi T. Brown,
I'm not an expert of all it takes for Creative Cloud to support every enterprises need. Sorry I can't provide you more info on proxies or whatever problems you may be having.

Regarding the future direction of creative software, I think you might be worrying too much. David Simons, founder of After Effects said he has features for After Effects for 20 more years.

See at about 9 minutes into this video:



Kevin Monahan
Social Support Lead
Adobe After Effects
Adobe Premiere Pro
Adobe Systems, Inc.
Follow Me on Twitter!


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Chris Pettit
Re: Thoughts about Adobes earning report...
on Jun 28, 2013 at 7:47:45 pm

Also not upgrading.

Will not spend ANY money with Adobe until they announce changes to policy. CS6 will do for a long time even though I want Cineware a great deal


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Tim Kolb
Re: Thoughts about Adobes earning report...
on Jun 29, 2013 at 4:03:20 am

Time will tell.

Adobe is a business and if customers don't buy in to CC, Adobe will have to alter course.

The issue will be how fast they can do that if it comes down to it. All the public company protocols that made this a stress-relieving move for their business will still be in place should they have to reverse back into the old arrangement.

TimK,
Director, Consultant
Kolb Productions,

Adobe Certified Instructor


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Chris Pettit
Re: Thoughts about Adobes earning report...
on Jun 29, 2013 at 4:34:47 am

Assuming that there is a possibility that this could backfire for Adobe (quite hypothetical):

Isn't that why some kind of a buyout option makes so much sense? In theory, Adobe could proceed with most of it's strategy regarding subscriptions and the commitment of income from core users...

While giving back to those same users the one most central part of what they're asking for: SECURITY. Give us some form of security after a period of subscription, and I believe that this get much easier...

Blow us off, and we become life-long advocates for the opposition.


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Tim Kolb
Re: Thoughts about Adobes earning report...
on Jun 29, 2013 at 4:57:59 am

That's the problem...the "option".

It's not an "option"...it's a product.

A perpetual license, frozen in time, software release requires different development timelines, different installers, different licensing systems, completely separate patches for small defects and problems, while the feature updates for the subscription (cloud) apps are built and auto-released into the wild...not to mention the reporting and revising of separate earnings, profit and loss, etc.

While I'm not saying the current subscription system is, or should be, ideal for everyone, I suspect that Adobe takes a look at the cost of supporting both ways of product development and finds that the additional costs would actually be far more than the revenue lost by what they expect to lose in customer head-count...

Whether or not it ultimately stocks or not is yet to be known, but I can see why they would have just made a clean switch, as different as all this is for everyone involved.

TimK,
Director, Consultant
Kolb Productions,

Adobe Certified Instructor


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David Lawrence
Re: Thoughts about Adobes earning report...
on Jun 29, 2013 at 5:52:57 am

[Tim Kolb] "A perpetual license, frozen in time, software release requires different development timelines, different installers, different licensing systems, completely separate patches for small defects and problems, while the feature updates for the subscription (cloud) apps are built and auto-released into the wild...not to mention the reporting and revising of separate earnings, profit and loss, etc. "

This is incorrect. There's no need for separate versions or separate development. The only difference between a perpetual or subscription version of CC applications is a DRM check and optional internet features. That's it. The technology is trivial and the infrastructure is already in place to easily allow Adobe to offer both, if they want to.

I explain how it could work here:

http://forums.creativecow.net/readpost/378/2803

A system like I describe would actually be easier for Adobe, because right now, their commitment to CS6 means really do have to support two totally different development branches.

_______________________
David Lawrence
art~media~design~research
propaganda.com
publicmattersgroup.com
facebook.com/dlawrence
twitter.com/dhl


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Tim Kolb
Re: Thoughts about Adobes earning report...
on Jun 29, 2013 at 9:09:24 am

[David Lawrence] "This is incorrect. There's no need for separate versions or separate development. "

You explained the mechanics...now get a CFO and 3 attorneys to explain the bookkeeping...the accounting is the bigger problem.

Ever lease a piece of business equipment with a fixed term and fixed buyout price? Tax law sees that as a scheduled purchase and not a lease, which means now that you have an asset to carry on the books and an asset to amortize as opposed to a payment that is 100% expense.

The same comparison applies to Adobe selling a product vs leasing one.

Those lease payments establish one kind of business transaction, which in the case of a buyout, would get into a gray area of whether those were payments against a purchase or a no obligation lease. If Adobe tells you that there is a certain period at a certain price after which you can purchase the same product that you've been leasing for some predetermined amount...under US tax law at least, that is not a lease.

The nature of the transaction is different, and Adobe loses the accounting and reporting gains they got by doing this in the first place.

TimK,
Director, Consultant
Kolb Productions,

Adobe Certified Instructor


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Rainer Schubert
Re: Thoughts about Adobes earning report...
on Jun 29, 2013 at 9:56:34 am

Can´t really believe, that´s the main fact and justifies the behavior of Adobe.
There are other software packages with buyout too.
May be a solution, where you get an special buy-bonus after a time of subscription.
(You payed three years & get the bonus/discount).
So you leased the software for 3 years (-> bookhold "lease") and than you buy the product for a symbolic $1 (-> bookhold "buy").
Don´t think, that this is the clip they can´t come around.


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Chris Pettit
Re: Thoughts about Adobes earning report...
on Jun 29, 2013 at 3:33:44 pm

So then charge us a nominal fee on top of the subscriptions, at the end of the term, and call it a different transaction.

You make good points here, but I don't believe that tax law that's standing between Adobe and the users that are oppossed Mandatory CC


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