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Ron Pestes
CC already pirated
on Jun 22, 2013 at 5:06:38 am

So now that we know that Photoshop CC was pirated the day after release does this mean PP will be next? And if so, does this mean that CC has already failed? Comments...

ronpesteshdvideo.com
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Daniel Ludwig
Re: CC already pirated
on Jun 22, 2013 at 6:22:04 am

the entire suite is hacked! isn´t this some kind of ironie? the bad guys just needed arround 12h.


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Andrew Kimery
Re: CC already pirated
on Jun 22, 2013 at 6:28:34 am

CC will prevent casual "Hey can I 'borrow' your copy of AE?" type pirating but it will never, ever stop piracy by people willing to tinker w/their software and it's not intended too, IMO. Downloadable hacks have been around for years to 'unlock' the fully functioning Adobe demos by basically preventing the software from counting how many days since it was installed. Even programs sold via Apple's Mac App store and iOS App store can be pirated. A buddy of mine had pirated copies of FCPX, Motion and Compressor all running on his Mac the day after FCPX launched.




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Bernard Newnham
Re: CC already pirated
on Jun 22, 2013 at 8:52:51 am

Everything gets hacked. I assume Adobe etc measure success by the ratio of payers to non-payers.

Inevitably, Photoshop especially has always had a high proportion of ripped-off copies, given the price and popularity. Now that the whole suite has become non-available to those who would either impulse buy, or buy when they are temporarily rich, it seems likely that the pirates are going to be the ones who get rich.

Bernie


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Paul Neumann
Re: CC already pirated
on Jun 22, 2013 at 11:37:27 am

It may get you the software but I would think it doesn't get you into the Creative Cloud.


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Morten Ranmar
Re: CC already pirated
on Jun 22, 2013 at 1:21:32 pm

OMG does that mean pirated software sends you to CREATIVE HELL?

- No Parking Production -

2 x Finalcut Studio3, 2 x Prod. bundle CS6, 2 x MacPro, 2 x ioHD, Ethernet File Server w. X-Raid.... and FCPX on trial


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Joseph W. Bourke
Re: CC already pirated
on Jun 22, 2013 at 2:02:05 pm

No, you have to buy that separately - it's Adobe CH...

Joe Bourke
Owner/Creative Director
Bourke Media
http://www.bourkemedia.com


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Ricardo Marty
Re: CC already pirated
on Jun 22, 2013 at 2:08:29 pm

I have seen ppro,ae,audition cc hacked and running.


Ricardo


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Gary Huff
Re: CC already pirated
on Jun 22, 2013 at 1:23:59 pm

[Paul Neumann] "It may get you the software but I would think it doesn't get you into the Creative Cloud."

And we all know that Creative Cloud is the future of creative.


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Morten Ranmar
Re: CC already pirated
on Jun 22, 2013 at 2:50:57 pm

More than that - it is our FAITH...

- No Parking Production -

2 x Finalcut Studio3, 2 x Prod. bundle CS6, 2 x MacPro, 2 x ioHD, Ethernet File Server w. X-Raid.... and FCPX on trial


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: CC already pirated
on Jun 22, 2013 at 2:13:13 pm

[Paul Neumann] "It may get you the software but I would think it doesn't get you into the Creative Cloud.
"


well lets forget about it then.

because if I can't have a file sync service that doesn't work, and some stupid colour wheel settings - I'm not willing to carry on.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Brett Sherman
Re: CC already pirated
on Jun 22, 2013 at 3:11:24 pm

CC doesn't solve any problems that weren't already solved. They already prevented borrowing by requiring online check-in when you install. Believe me, I know. Every had a computer die on you before unregistering your Adobe software? It is a PITA. But still better than CC.



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Chris Kenny
Re: CC already pirated
on Jun 22, 2013 at 5:39:41 pm

[Ron Pestes] "So now that we know that Photoshop CC was pirated the day after release does this mean PP will be next? And if so, does this mean that CC has already failed? Comments..."

CC is about getting more (and more consistent) revenue from legitimate customers, not about preventing piracy. Not even casual piracy, since the old activation system already prevented that.

Adobe may also be hoping that the lack of a large up-front purchase price might convert some pirates into subscribers. I find this plausible. Most of the discussions of CC pricing here ignore the up-front cost of Creative Suite, because pretty much everyone in these forums already paid it years ago. But MSRP on Master Collection was $2599. It's very possible some people who never previously bought legit copies will find $50/month more palatable than $2599 up front + periodic upgrades.

--
Digital Workflow/Colorist, Nice Dissolve.

You should follow me on Twitter here. Or read our blog.


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Rainer Schubert
Re: CC already pirated
on Jun 22, 2013 at 6:29:20 pm

2599$ = CashCow after 52 month. Afterwards it gets more and more and more and more... expensive.
Don´t forget! You have to pay lifelong if you want full access to your archive.
It´s 6240$ after 10 years.
Short thought, or?
What if you can´t pay (whatever reason, but if you have not much money - as your argumentation...) the slavery fees one day and your client is at the door?
----------
CC = Cash Cow = Terminating the word "Archive" in digital future = Lifelong dependency = NoGo = Never


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Gary Huff
Re: CC already pirated
on Jun 22, 2013 at 6:42:56 pm

[Rainer Schubert] "What if you can´t pay (whatever reason, but if you have not much money - as your argumentation...) the slavery fees one day and your client is at the door?"

Then you charge them whatever the single month cost is on top of whatever else you need to get their product revamped after such a long period of dormancy.


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Chris Kenny
Re: CC already pirated
on Jun 22, 2013 at 7:09:44 pm

[Rainer Schubert] "2599$ = CashCow after 52 month. Afterwards it gets more and more and more and more... expensive.
Don´t forget! You have to pay lifelong if you want full access to your archive.
It´s 6240$ after 10 years. "


That assumes no upgrades for the perpetual license. Realistically on a 12-18 month upgrade cycle pro-rating the cost of upgrades on a monthly basis, you're talking about something like $30/month on to stay current anyway. Saving $20/month vs. the current cloud price, you're looking at nearly 11 years before you come out ahead on price with perpetual licensing.

For many businesses at least, blowing a $2599 (per seat) hole in this month's cash flow to start saving money in 11 years is not a very attractive proposition.

Of course this does ignore the fact that cloud prices will likely rise. Upgrade prices would likely have risen as well, but with cloud licensing your entire cost is "at risk" for price increases, whereas with the previous licensing scheme Adobe couldn't retroactively raise your initial purchase price. So a 10% increase in cloud subscription fees is a larger increase than a 10% increase in upgrade pricing would have been. I suppose this fundamentally doesn't matter, since Adobe can just set these prices wherever it likes, however.

All of this said, I think Adobe really should still offer perpetual licensing options, for those who want them. And they should also make Creative Cloud a bit less of a bad deal for existing Creative Suite owners. What they're doing right now feels a little like double-dipping. Adobe has clearly set CC pricing at a level at which they're comfortable not receiving $2599 up-front anymore. By charging that price to people who have already paid them up front, they are, effectively, charging us for the same software twice.

The $30/month discount for CS6 owners for the first 12 months gives back some of that, but it's a small fraction. If you assume the new CC versions of apps otherwise would have been packaged into a $600 upgrade, and subtract that from a $2599 Master Suite license, you get a hypothetical current value of $1999 for a CS6 license. Adobe's discount offer is 'refunding' only $360 of that.

--
Digital Workflow/Colorist, Nice Dissolve.

You should follow me on Twitter here. Or read our blog.


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Paul Neumann
Re: CC already pirated
on Jun 22, 2013 at 9:42:57 pm

I'm seriously trying to devalue the Creative Cloud like you guys, but I can't. $600 a year for all those tools? That's amazing. Don't want them all? Whatever. There's $600 a year worth of value in PPro/Ae alone.

Pay for it. Write it off. Move on. If you quit Adobe then you can rebuild your edits in your new software of choice. It'll be good for you. You'll still have the elements.

I've got CC Debate fatigue. This is all getting really silly.


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Rainer Schubert
Re: CC already pirated
on Jun 22, 2013 at 10:19:02 pm

Rebuild files after subscription???
Nice for an hobbyist. May be.
In my case we are talking about a few 100.000 files after a couple of years. Or X0 Terabyte of Data.
I´m wondering about, what all the Cloud subscribers are working on, that losing file access is so easy to accept.
I have to guaranty all of my industrial clients a 3 years access to their files (Not to have a look on them - I must be able to open and edit these files. Also to convert them into formats, they can use.
And there is nearly not one day in my business, where I don´t have to open and edit old files.
May be it´s because in video-editing it´s a little bit different than in print and web design.
But I never will be in a situation, where I MUST go on and go on and go on... . It´s simply dependency.
And I will never subscribe under these conditions. Beside all the other hazels.
If I want to change the software - I want to have the choice to do that. Without losing access to my archived files.
(Please, No response post, that I will not lose my files, or that I can re-subscribe, or that I can convert my files in some other not full editable formats, or that I can bill my clients for that hazel - I heard all that arguments already, and they make no sense to me)
Or to pay for the use of my archive.

I REALLY don´t understand, why there are people/users that will not understand this kind of concern.


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Gary Huff
Re: CC already pirated
on Jun 22, 2013 at 11:52:17 pm

Yes, all that hazel nearly brings out a violet streak in me.

(sorry, couldn't resist!)


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Chris Pettit
Re: CC already pirated
on Jun 23, 2013 at 2:11:02 am

Paul: Then don't post anymore. If you're happy with everything CC, don't you have other things to do?

Stating how easy it is to move on to other NLE tools, while ignoring the much more complex issues surrounding software like AE is a wasted comment anyway, it sidesteps the really complex issues of access and ownership


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Paul Neumann
Re: CC already pirated
on Jun 23, 2013 at 3:27:32 am

Wow. Sorry to ruffle so many feathers. Seriously. It just seems like a great value to me.

And I've been editing since the late 80's. CMX, Montage, Avid, Henry, Fire, Smoke and Hal, Flame and on and on.

Thanks for the snarky hobbyist remark and suggesting I should have something better to do.

Some debate.


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Gary Huff
Re: CC already pirated
on Jun 23, 2013 at 3:27:26 pm

[Paul Neumann] "Thanks for the snarky hobbyist remark"

Not sure where you got that.


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Joseph W. Bourke
@ Chris Petit
on Jun 23, 2013 at 4:20:49 pm

Paul: Then don't post anymore. If you're happy with everything CC, don't you have other things to do?


Wow - so you're saying, unless we're all negative toward CC, and agree with you, we should just move along...that sort of defeats the "forum" aspect of the COW, doesn't it? My guess is that the anti-CC (and I'm honestly on the fence) crowd are so small and loud, that since they can't drown out, or out post those who are happy with the CC, then they'll bully them to go elsewhere. Mob psychology at its finest. As I said, I'm on the fence, but there's really no place here for your attitude, on either side of the debate!

Joe Bourke
Owner/Creative Director
Bourke Media
http://www.bourkemedia.com


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Chris Pettit
Re: @ Chris Petit
on Jun 23, 2013 at 4:43:09 pm

Joseph, I'll re-post Paul' comments for your review:

"Pay for it. Write it off. Move on. If you quit Adobe then you can rebuild your edits in your new software of choice. It'll be good for you. You'll still have the elements.

I've got CC Debate fatigue. This is all getting really silly."


When you post comments like "move on" and "getting really silly" you're intent isn't to debate but belittle.

But I must admit, my skin is a little thin at the moment. I've had so many people use language like this for weeks when referencing issues that affect how I intend to put my kids through college, I'm a little burned out on it. Nobody attacked Paul, he choose to make his comments of his own volition.

This is serious business what Adobe has done. It affects many peoples livelihoods in very negative and threatening ways.

I'm completely respectful of people who's particular perspective see's the benefits of CC. I've read quite a few comments that make a some sense in this regard. I have a couple of illustrators I work with who think CC is great because they can get access to tools they would never have paid for prior to CC. No problem.

But when people, unprovoked, post comments like: ...Move on...Get over it....tired of the whining...the usual haters... it's going to provoke a response.


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Joseph W. Bourke
Re: @ Chris Petit
on Jun 23, 2013 at 7:43:59 pm

You know, Chris, when re-reading it, I should have aimed my missive at both you and Paul - I firmly believe that there should be no place in this forum for attacks and dismissive posts, and, in retrospect, Paul threw the first stone. I'm just as guilty of this when something hits close to a sore spot, so I guess I should just shut up...everyone has a valid voice in these forums, and, although I was firmly in the "for the CC" camp at the start of the fray, I've realized that it may not be the right thing for me, either. I'm on the fence...

Joe Bourke
Owner/Creative Director
Bourke Media
http://www.bourkemedia.com


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Chris Pettit
Re: @ Chris Petit
on Jun 23, 2013 at 8:47:21 pm

Joseph, my apologies for probably reacting too emotionally, thanks for your input


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Rainer Schubert
Re: CC already pirated
on Jun 22, 2013 at 10:07:00 pm

This math works with the Master Collection ONLY!

Let´s be fair (also we know, that only a few - like me - took all the upgrades)
So, let´s add upgrades to the old distribution:
10 years / 1,5 years upgrade periods = 6 * 600 upgrade fee = 3600$ + 2600$ price = 6200$ total / Classical distribution 10 years.

CashCow: 10 years * 12 month * 50$ slavery fee = 6000$ in 10 years.

After that Adobe is the winner. And it´s ONLY in case of MASTER SUITE.

22 Years - like me:
Classic: 22/1,5=14,6*600 uprgades = 8760$ & 2600$ price = 11360
CashCow: 22*12*50 = 13200
A 1840$ Plus for Adobe in their worst case: Master Suite user.

For all smaller Suites or single, double, ... Apps: You are the loser after a few couple of years.
Design Suite Std Classic after 10 years = 1300 price + (6*300 upgrades) 1800 = 3100$. CashCow = 6000$. A nearby doubled income for Adobe: +2900.
And that´s under the condition the user took every update under classical distribution (Reality: More than the half of users are below CS6 - CC included - today)

AND bee sure: After Catch Cloudies period prices MUST rise tremendous.
They made their bill with a lose of more than half of their users.
They have to/are willing to rise income. How should that work with keeping prices on this level.
And I even don´t believe, hat they can ever press 4,5 K into their horrible cloud.
So if there will be less: Prices will rise a little bit more.
And the game will be easy for them, once they got Cloudies in their jail of "Adobe edit only files".

Simply no chance to make a math, where the CashCow will be cheaper than regular and user friendly distribution.


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Chris Kenny
Re: CC already pirated
on Jun 23, 2013 at 12:28:26 am

[Rainer Schubert] "This math works with the Master Collection ONLY! "

Yes, and I've complained about this elsewhere. Adobe should offer options other than individual apps and (the equivalent of) Master Collection.

[Rainer Schubert] "AND bee sure: After Catch Cloudies period prices MUST rise tremendous. "

That's not entirely clear. As you just pointed out, they're already making more money per user, by getting everyone paying Master Collection scale upgrade prices (or even a little more) and making it impossible to skip upgrades. I suspect even with half the users (vs. the CS installed base) they'll still make more money. Much of that installed base simply wasn't producing regular revenue for them.

--
Digital Workflow/Colorist, Nice Dissolve.

You should follow me on Twitter here. Or read our blog.


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Rainer Schubert
Re: CC already pirated
on Jun 23, 2013 at 2:32:00 pm

They already explained, that the CashCow distribution only works for them, if they can press 4,5 k of users into cloud till 2016.
If they don´t get this amount of users, it will not work. And they even didn´t lose one word about the prices on 2016 level.

So let´s make a little math on estimations:

Actual they have nearby 8,5 CS Suites outside and 4,4 Single Apps.
Let´s say a CS Suite product is only the half income as a CC-Slavery - so it´s 25$/mth
And a Single App is a Quarter income = 12,5$/mth
8,5 k * 25$ = 212,5 k$ and 4,4 k * 12,5$ = 55 k$
Complete: 267 k$ income/mth

CashCow 2016: 4,5 k* 50$ = 225 k$ income/mth

BUT:
That´s 2016 !!! (estimated by them).
In 2014 it will be (no or nearly no income of CS products): 1,25 k (estim. users) * 50$ = 62,5 k$ against a 267 k$ of classical distribution.

So in 2014 and in 2015 (...and until they reach their goal of 4,5 k Cloudies) they have a big lose of income, if prises DON´T rise.
For the moment they have income of both: CS and CC. But this will end soon.

Or is my math wrong?
I think, we can see prices of cloud rise soon, or special offers to come in the cloud : )
----------
CC = Cash Cow = Terminating the word "Archive" in digital future = Lifelong dependency = NoGo = Never


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Lance Moody
Re: CC already pirated
on Jun 26, 2013 at 3:35:09 am

I am loving CC so far. I have had the Master collection perpetual license since they started offering it and have always updated, every time.

I wish that I could pay for CC a full year in advance (at a slight discount) but can't do that using their introductory rate (I understand that one can if paying the standard rate).

To me, the price (the standard price) is right in line with what I have been paying all along and negligible compared to the work I use it for.

Lance



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Rainer Schubert
Re: CC already pirated
on Jun 26, 2013 at 8:16:32 am

That will work for you - as former Master Collections user, who always updated (like you & me) are their worst case scenario:
This is the only case, where the CashCow distribution will only be more expensive after 10 years.
(BUT: You lose everything after your subscription - it is as you never had payed. With the CS license you own the right to use lifelong. So it´s not cheaper at all)
All other users have to pay more than before. Their bill is higher after a period of a couple of years.
And, what I tried to say was: Prises MUST and WILL rise after their period of catching customers to cloud.
BtW: Price was never my first concern with this CashCow BS - Losing full file access after quitting is a absolute NoGo.
I turnt my back to Adobe already.
But if you are happy with it & love it: Wish you all the best. Enjoy.


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igor carlier
Re: CC already pirated
on Jun 27, 2013 at 10:01:46 am

the math is so simple ..
50 us per month for a 2500 us dollar software package.

it would take 30 month for you to start losing money.

and then you start paying for upgrades witch are download only and start a serial number management database cose it will get confusing once you have updated 15 machines from CS2 to CS3 to CS4 to CS5 to CS6 ...

nightmare !!!

CC is a good deal and will solve keeping up to date issues.


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Gary Huff
Re: CC already pirated
on Jun 27, 2013 at 2:11:51 pm

[igor carlier] "50 us per month for a 2500 us dollar software package. it would take 30 month for you to start losing money."

Assuming, of course, that it remains $50 per month for all 30 of those.


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igor carlier
Re: CC already pirated
on Jun 28, 2013 at 4:32:33 am

the math was so simple i failed ... :S

its 50 months times 50 that will make 2500 USD

i think the price will go down in the future not up.

anyway aside from the monthly payments , you can still buy CS6 and they will still continue to make updates.


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Rainer Schubert
Re: CC already pirated
on Jun 28, 2013 at 11:55:23 am

Prices will go down?
Never!
Adobe has tremendous lose of income at the moment - nearby 2/3 in total.
And that under the condition, that there are many buyers of old perpetual licenses for the moment (that will stop soon).
And there are many hopping on the cloud, because for the moment there are discounts for former CS6 users.
And Adobe has startet to make this "cloud" forcing (don´t you wonder, why they did that that radical and rashly)
If they don´t raise the prices they will run out of money in a foreseeable future.
Their evil plan will only work, when they can fulfill their estimations...
And 700.000 users within a year - to such a "overwhelming solution" - do you really think it´s a good number???
Or is it a number good for Wall street.
In my eyes Adobe is playing a very risk game.
Bet, we will see new discounts in August (as they have to reach 1,25 k Cloudies till November....)


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Harold Brown
Re: CC already pirated
on Jul 7, 2013 at 5:27:14 am

A concern I have is the future cost of being connected to the internet. There is always going to be a push for charging more dollars or for metered usage. That is cash that somebody gets white knuckled over thinking about grabbing. Could even be related to world economy situation. The future costs of the Cloud is uncertain and, although an unknown, could put a cramp in your budget. I would like to see some type of cash-out where you get something for your money at some point in time, just as a safety valve.

Harold
__________________
BhagaVideo.com

Check out my published DVDs at
http://edellismagic.com/merchandise/


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Ron Pestes
Re: CC already pirated
on Jul 7, 2013 at 4:49:39 pm

My bottom line is why anyone likes being put in jail. People are marching off willingly to trap themselves. Reminds me of a bunch of sheep or lemmings.

ronpesteshdvideo.com
JVC GY-HM600
Dell M6600
Adobe CS6 Production Premium
MacBook Pro
Apple Certified Master Pro FCS 2




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