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Chopped Liver

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Tim Vaughan
Chopped Liver
on May 6, 2013 at 6:49:32 pm

So let me get this straight: I'm currently paying $350/375 per year to upgrade my computer. I have both a Mac and PC, so I take the hit and upgrade both. So my cost per year is $750 to upgrade both machines. And that $750 gets me production premium, which has all the programs I use and (quite honestly) need.
Now, Adobe has this grand idea to charge me $49.99/month (Think about it, after the introductory rate, this is what it'll most likely jump too. A year flies by quick), which comes to $599.88/year. For one machine. So now I'm going to be paying $1199.76 to run 2 machines at the same time. And I get access to all those programs I don't use. (I'm in video production, not print production. Not web--other than simple stuff. I only NEED video production programs)
Now, if I ever do close up shop, what happens if, in a month or year after, I get called upon to make a minor change? It'll cost $60 just to open the program? Really???
Seriously, I don't lease cars, I don't rent houses, and my lawnmower is also paid for. No why would I think renting software is what I need?

Sorry Adobe, but this is absolute BS.

Tim
Apple XRAID, XServe, 2008 2x3 GHz Quad-Core MacPro, Macbook Pro, XSAN, FCP Studio (7), AVID Media Composer, Adobe Production Premium, Maxon Cinema 4d, AJA Kona 3, Flanders Scientific Monitors, Panasonic HPX250's, Kessler Crane, Glidecam.....
Beer fridge fully loaded.


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Tom Daigon
Re: Chopped Liver
on May 6, 2013 at 6:52:57 pm

As I understand it , current CS6 owners have an upgrade special offer whereby they can join the cloud for the next year at $29.95 a month. You can have it installed on 2 machines. (Mac & PC)

Tom Daigon
PrP / After Effects Editor
HP Z820 Dual 2687
64GB ram
Dulce DQg2 16TB raid
http://www.hdshotsandcuts.com


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Tim Vaughan
Re: Chopped Liver
on May 6, 2013 at 6:57:43 pm

Yes, you can install it on two machines (Mac and PC). However, they cannot be run simultaneously. I use the PC for rendering out wmv's and other forms of renders, all the while working on the Mac. This would not work for me--or at least, it'll just slow down the whole work process. And really, why "upgrade" to slow down??? LOL

Tim
Apple XRAID, XServe, 2008 2x3 GHz Quad-Core MacPro, Macbook Pro, XSAN, FCP Studio (7), AVID Media Composer, Adobe Production Premium, Maxon Cinema 4d, AJA Kona 3, Flanders Scientific Monitors, Panasonic HPX250's, Kessler Crane, Glidecam.....
Beer fridge fully loaded.


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Tom Daigon
Re: Chopped Liver
on May 6, 2013 at 7:00:45 pm

Good point.

Tom Daigon
PrP / After Effects Editor
HP Z820 Dual 2687
64GB ram
Dulce DQg2 16TB raid
http://www.hdshotsandcuts.com


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Steve Connor
Re: Chopped Liver
on May 6, 2013 at 7:09:25 pm

[Tim Vaughan] "Yes, you can install it on two machines (Mac and PC). However, they cannot be run simultaneously"

They mentioned on the webcast that they CAN be run at the same time

Steve Connor

There's nothing we can't argue about on the FCPX COW Forum


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Tim Vaughan
Re: Chopped Liver
on May 6, 2013 at 7:19:30 pm

I've only heard of it being able to be one machine running at a time. (A long standing Adobe tradition) However, if they alleviate that and allow any/everyone to use 2 machines per license, then I'd say that was at least a small step forward.

Tim
Apple XRAID, XServe, 2008 2x3 GHz Quad-Core MacPro, Macbook Pro, XSAN, FCP Studio (7), AVID Media Composer, Adobe Production Premium, Maxon Cinema 4d, AJA Kona 3, Flanders Scientific Monitors, Panasonic HPX250's, Kessler Crane, Glidecam.....
Beer fridge fully loaded.


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Sean Bates
Re: Chopped Liver
on May 6, 2013 at 7:23:40 pm

It's also worth noting that it's easy to deactivate and reactivate your license without uninstalling the software. That means you can have a "floating license" of sorts with CC installed on several machines as long as only two are active at once.


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Franz Bieberkopf
Re: Chopped Liver
on May 6, 2013 at 7:27:24 pm

[Sean Bates] "It's also worth noting that it's easy to deactivate and reactivate your license without uninstalling the software."

Sean,

I had issues last week with precisely this - there's little help on the Adobe site, and it took me the better part of an hour in Adobe "chat" to find out that I had to deactivate all licenses and then reactivate the ones I wanted (that is relatively easy, but this dance isn't stated anywhere in the FAQ).

Franz.


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Sean Bates
Re: Chopped Liver
on May 6, 2013 at 7:40:14 pm

As far as I know, you just deactivate your Creative Cloud license on one machine (by picking any CC app, going to Help and selecting "deactivate"). Software is still on your machine but won't launch until you reactivate your license. Then when you launch any CC on the new machine you are presented with an option to activate one of your available licenses. Did Adobe chat tell you to deactivate programs individually?


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walter biscardi
Re: Chopped Liver
on May 6, 2013 at 7:42:04 pm

[Sean Bates] "As far as I know, you just deactivate your Creative Cloud license on one machine (by picking any CC app, going to Help and selecting "deactivate"). Software is still on your machine but won't launch until you reactivate your license."

Yep, that's precisely how it works here. I usually pick Photoshop because it launches the quickest. If I deactivate that app, that deactivates the entire cloud. Then just activate on another machine.

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Editor, Colorist, Director, Writer, Consultant, Author, Chef.
HD Post and Production
Biscardi Creative Media

Foul Water Fiery Serpent, an original documentary featuring Sigourney Weave...
MTWD Entertainment - Developing original content for all media.
"This American Land" - our new PBS Series.
"Science Nation" - Three years and counting of Science for the People.

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Franz Bieberkopf
Re: Chopped Liver
on May 6, 2013 at 7:52:05 pm

[Sean Bates] "Did Adobe chat tell you to deactivate programs individually?"

[walter biscardi] "Yep, that's precisely how it works here."

Sean, Walter,

The catch was that we had tried to activate on the third machine first (before deactivating), and so the only way forward became:
- activate on third machine (which deactivates all others)
- re-activate the primary machine again.

There may have been another deactivation step in there (can't recall) but it was a bit of dance with "trial activation" dialogs and lots of restarts.

Sounds simple enough, but again, it took the better part of an hour to get that info (had to be transferred from chat to tech support, re-explain the issue, etc.). Also, this info isn't posted anywhere (that I can find) - if you make this mistake, you need Adobe to walk you through it.

It's particularly annoying when you think that adobe have an Application Manager installed on my machines, and also a central control point (Creative Cloud) which I can sign into - why there isn't simple, centralized activation management is beyond me.

Franz.


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Sean Bates
Re: Chopped Liver
on May 6, 2013 at 7:54:06 pm

Agreed, it would be a lot simpler to do all this through the Application Manager. I think I had to google the info to figure out how to transfer licenses the first time I did. Still, my point is that the option is available and pretty simple to use once you figure out how.


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Gerald Goldman
Re: Chopped Liver
on May 6, 2013 at 7:24:02 pm

I have run my current cloud license on 2 machines at once. Both Macs. On and off the same network.

Gerald Goldman
Director of Post Production
Grace Creek Media
http://www.gracecreek.com
http://www.sportskool.com


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walter biscardi
Re: Chopped Liver
on May 6, 2013 at 7:13:11 pm

[Tim Vaughan] "Yes, you can install it on two machines (Mac and PC). However, they cannot be run simultaneously."

It works here simultaneously. Has ever since i installed the Cloud.

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Editor, Colorist, Director, Writer, Consultant, Author, Chef.
HD Post and Production
Biscardi Creative Media

Foul Water Fiery Serpent, an original documentary featuring Sigourney Weave...
MTWD Entertainment - Developing original content for all media.
"This American Land" - our new PBS Series.
"Science Nation" - Three years and counting of Science for the People.

Blog Twitter Facebook


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Petros Kolyvas
Re: Chopped Liver
on May 6, 2013 at 7:45:15 pm

[Tom Daigon] "As I understand it , current CS6 owners have an upgrade special offer whereby they can join the cloud for the next year at $29.95 a month. You can have it installed on 2 machines. (Mac & PC)
"


But that's only for the first year - and for volume license customers it's $39.99 with the real cost being $70/month per user. That's $840/seat annually where the upgrades were, at most, $350-$400.

--
There is no intuitive interface, not even the nipple. It's all learned. - Bruce Ediger


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Tom Daigon
Re: Chopped Liver
on May 6, 2013 at 7:47:37 pm

Yup.

Tom Daigon
PrP / After Effects Editor
HP Z820 Dual 2687
64GB ram
Dulce DQg2 16TB raid
http://www.hdshotsandcuts.com


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Petros Kolyvas
Re: Chopped Liver
on May 6, 2013 at 7:50:30 pm

It's a bit of a sad day. Thankfully my CS6 apps continue to work.

--
There is no intuitive interface, not even the nipple. It's all learned. - Bruce Ediger


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Paul Neumann
Re: Chopped Liver
on May 6, 2013 at 7:51:56 pm

Already got CS6? It's only $19.99 a month the first year. Just did the deal.


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Petros Kolyvas
Re: Chopped Liver
on May 6, 2013 at 8:01:06 pm

Two errors in your response (and most).

It's not $19.99.

Adobe want you to say that.

It's $19.99 for the first year and something else thereafter. Because the service is a PERPETUAL PAYMENT service in lieu of a PERPETUAL LICENSE, the cost is infinite and the future cost could be more. It could, to be fair, also be less. But that's a stretch.

I wish people would stop quoting the introductory pricing since it's shortsighted at best to use those numbers when costing out any business expense.

Also, I'm a Volume License user: it's $49.99 for my first year and $69.99 for my second if prices stay the same, and that's times 3 for us. $2500+ a year. Over 100% increase in what we would forecast for a CS upgrade.

--
There is no intuitive interface, not even the nipple. It's all learned. - Bruce Ediger


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Mike Chambers
Re: Chopped Liver
on May 6, 2013 at 8:03:44 pm

The upgrade offer for CS6 users is $19.99 / month for the first year. $29.99 is for CS3 - 5 users.

mike chambers

mesh@adobe.com


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Petros Kolyvas
Re: Chopped Liver
on May 6, 2013 at 8:08:28 pm

[Mike Chambers] "The upgrade offer for CS6 users is $19.99 / month for the first year. $29.99 is for CS3 - 5 users.

mike chambers

mesh@adobe.com
"


What about a longer-term price guarantee?

And you're saying that users of the existing Volume Licensing system are eligible for those prices if don't care about the arguably useless "Teams" benefits?

--
There is no intuitive interface, not even the nipple. It's all learned. - Bruce Ediger


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Tom Daigon
Re: Chopped Liver
on May 6, 2013 at 8:09:45 pm

Here are the current options for purchasing the cloud.

http://www.adobe.com/products/creativecloud/buying-guide.html

Tom Daigon
PrP / After Effects Editor
HP Z820 Dual 2687
64GB ram
Dulce DQg2 16TB raid
http://www.hdshotsandcuts.com


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Petros Kolyvas
Re: Chopped Liver
on May 6, 2013 at 8:11:33 pm

The backlash on various other forums is loud and clear.

--
There is no intuitive interface, not even the nipple. It's all learned. - Bruce Ediger


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Stephen Bakopanos
Re: Chopped Liver
on May 6, 2013 at 8:27:20 pm

As a sole operator (freelance mostly), I don't have an issue with CC. I really like the fact idea that Adobe will be able to push updates and upgrades out to PP on a more regular basis, without having to wait for major CS releases. The price really isn't prohibitive. I mean FFS, even at the full price of $49.95/month it still costs less than a hour of my billable time. I'm happy to pay that in order to have access to the tools that will allow me to generate pure income for the other 99% of my billable hours.


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Petros Kolyvas
Re: Chopped Liver
on May 6, 2013 at 8:32:22 pm

But the argument isn't just about dollars. Although my beef is currently with dollars.

If you came to me today as my supplier for editing, and you told me your price doubled and that, in addition to that, I'd have to pay you a retainer, I'd look elsewhere.

It's the retainer part that's the most concerning. A business would have to maintain a CC membership at whatever the current cost is, to have access to old projects. This isn't ideal. Even software with a support agreement will work in it's last-updated state if the support agreement elapses, like Autodesk Smoke.

This new service only serves Adobe, it is not Adobe serving it's customers. The "we can update it more frequently" is pure none-sense. This is Adobe's SimCity. ;)

--
There is no intuitive interface, not even the nipple. It's all learned. - Bruce Ediger


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Stephen Bakopanos
Re: Chopped Liver
on May 6, 2013 at 9:04:11 pm

[Petros Kolyvas] "It's the retainer part that's the most concerning. A business would have to maintain a CC membership at whatever the current cost is, to have access to old projects."

That argument doesn't really make sense to me. It's not like you're going to be paying the monthly fee to just access old projects - presumably you'll be using it to edit too? And if you don't want to fall into that "trap" (as you see it), simply stick with CS6 or switch to another set of tools - no one is forcing you to use CC.

And in any case, even if you did need to access an old project and weren't currently using CC to edit, you could always just freeze the subscription when not needed and pay the $49.95 when it is needed. I'm sure most of us would be able to find a way to add the cost to the bill... But I reckon that would be a pretty rare scenario for most (I can count the amount of machines I've used that haven't included Adobe software on no hands...I can't see this changing any time soon)


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Gerald Goldman
Re: Chopped Liver
on May 6, 2013 at 9:09:56 pm

With a yearly commitment required, it would appear that you can't just turn on and off the cloud when needed.

Gerald Goldman
Director of Post Production
Grace Creek Media
http://www.gracecreek.com
http://www.sportskool.com


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Stephen Bakopanos
Re: Chopped Liver
on May 6, 2013 at 9:27:10 pm

[Gerald Goldman] "With a yearly commitment required, it would appear that you can't just turn on and off the cloud when needed"

Single app subscriptions can be cancelled at any time.


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Nevin Styre
Re: Chopped Liver
on May 6, 2013 at 11:53:16 pm

there is no yearly commitment required, you can license the software month to month. It's $20 more than the rate you get with the yearly commitment but the option is there for those not needing access year-round.


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Petros Kolyvas
Re: Chopped Liver
on May 6, 2013 at 9:16:15 pm

I never said anyone is forcing us to use CC. We don't plan on it and since we got wind Adobe was moving exclusively in that direction we've been evaluating alternatives. We moved our entire (and entirely tiny) 3-seat operation to CS5.5 after the FCP7/FCPX debacle and will most likely not become CC users.

I also never indicated CS6 would stop working - in fact, I'm glad I didn't switch to CC sooner because all our projects will continue to be workable as they stand. New projects will migrate to whatever we decide.

--
There is no intuitive interface, not even the nipple. It's all learned. - Bruce Ediger


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Ernest Ratliff
Re: Chopped Liver
on May 6, 2013 at 8:28:15 pm

Not digging this, the collaborative features are of no benefit to me, and the subscription model is going to cause fits with the purchasing department.


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Ryan Pratzel
Re: Chopped Liver
on May 6, 2013 at 9:31:01 pm

We've had a single subscription with Adobe even before CC when you could subscribe to just Production Premium. Back then it was $85/mo, before Adobe lowered it to $49.99.

Last year when CC launched they "upgraded" our subscription and it was a disaster. So much so Adobe gave us 6 months of free service. I was on many locations where the apps wouldn't launch due to no Internet connection. They must have fixed this because I haven't experienced this in a while.

Three of our other machines run on boxed software. The subscription in theory isn't the worst thing in the world, but I have concerns about not owning a license and being tied to Adobe monitoring what we use.

We have learned to budget for annual software updates. This has become the reality in today's world. I know people are up in arms, but I'm not sure the masses will defect. I just hope the transition is smooth, because our experience last year was terrible.

Also keep this in mind, when you need creative cloud customer service, the 800 number goes to India. Food for thought.

Ryan Pratzel
Executive Producer | Creative Liquid Productions
creativeliquid.com


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