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cc and the big enterprises

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Ricardo Marty
cc and the big enterprises
on Jun 18, 2013 at 4:54:43 pm

I wonder if outfits like CNN,BBC,Hearst and other big players will embrace cc as some smaller players have?.

They have the cash but will they want their content potentially locked by an outside company or has adobe made exceptions with these companies?

Ricardo Marty


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Oliver Peters
Re: cc and the big enterprises
on Jun 18, 2013 at 5:36:07 pm

[Ricardo Marty] "I wonder if outfits like CNN,BBC,Hearst and other big players will embrace cc as some smaller players have?"

They already have. It's simply a utility cost from their POV and backwards project compatibility is completely irrelevant for them. Plus these large players get "off rate card" deals.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Joseph W. Bourke
Re: cc and the big enterprises
on Jun 18, 2013 at 8:16:01 pm

I can tell you one specific example of a Hearst station where they haven't gone to the Cloud, specifically for hardware reasons rather than software ones. They are not currently running robust enough systems for Production, Promotion, or News to enable the upgrade to CS6, let alone CC Whatever. They are still on CS5.5, and are waiting for budgets to enable an upgrade to their computers. They already own the CS6 disks, but as yet, are unable to implement them.

Joe Bourke
Owner/Creative Director
Bourke Media
http://www.bourkemedia.com


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Jim Wiseman
Re: cc and the big enterprises
on Jun 18, 2013 at 9:23:03 pm

News operations often need to open old projects. Historic stories are often topical. Can't see them wanting to lock in to software that could disappear. Adobe is mortal, after all.

Jim Wiseman
Sony PMW-EX1,Pana AJ-D810 DVCPro, DVX-100, Nikon D7000, Final Cut Studio 2 and 3, Media 100 Suite 2.1.3, Premiere Pro 5.5 and 6.0, AJA ioHD, AJA Kona LHi, Avid MC, Hexacore MacPro 3.33 Ghz 24Gb RAM GTX-285 120GB SSD, Macbook Pro 17" 2011 2.2 Ghz Quadcore i7 8Gb SSD, G5 Quadcore PCIe


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Walter Soyka
Re: cc and the big enterprises
on Jun 19, 2013 at 12:30:14 am

[Jim Wiseman] "News operations often need to open old projects. Historic stories are often topical."

Do they actually go back to editorial project files, or back to assets stored and organized in a DAM?

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Oliver Peters
Re: cc and the big enterprises
on Jun 19, 2013 at 12:46:58 am

[Walter Soyka] "Do they actually go back to editorial project files, or back to assets stored and organized in a DAM?"

Don't know about others' experiences, but when I've worked with news operations, they either went back to archived footage (such as via Avid Interplay) or they went back to saved, self-contained packages (files or tapes).

Actual edit project files weren't important. In fact, they probably didn't even exist, because few have mechanisms in place to save these. Remember, saving project files - where an original package could be altered or re-edited - can pose certain legal issues. In most case, it just wasn't that important.

My point, though, when I originally made the statement, is that in station operations, wholesale equipment and software changes are often made. Immediate working files are changed over and then the old stuff is gone. Or, obviously, as long as a station is in business, they are going to continue to pay the subscription. It would be unlikely that they would stop paying, unless they decided to make a complete change. After all, they have quite a few systems for which they pay regular maintenance contracts.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Dennis Radeke
Re: cc and the big enterprises
on Jun 19, 2013 at 9:28:00 am

[Jim Wiseman] "News operations often need to open old projects."

And they can of course Jim. Premiere Pro will open older projects with no difficulty.


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Dennis Radeke
Re: cc and the big enterprises
on Jun 19, 2013 at 9:30:07 am

Having worked with Hearst I would say that the issue is not the hardware unless they're waiting for a cap-ex hardware upgrade. Most stations if not all have adequate hardware. There are other reasons to date that some stations are on 5.5


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Joseph W. Bourke
Re: cc and the big enterprises
on Jun 19, 2013 at 2:47:48 pm

Hi Dennis -

I know you've worked with Hearst - I was art director at WMUR for 14 years, and I can tell you specifically (I still talk to Terry M. every couple of weeks; he's been a friend and colleague of mine for years) that it's due to hardware budgets. Being in the fringes of the Boston ADI means that ad dollars are in short supply, and those drive the hardware purchase engine. It will be interesting to see how the CC works for Hearst, especially in terms of rolling out new software. The IT department runs a tight ship, but they're also much more experienced in speccing out business machines, not graphics and editing machines. It was always a battle there when we needed new boxes - the standard was to just buy the almost latest off the shelf hardware, which, as you well know, doesn't float the boat when it comes to editing and graphics.

Joe Bourke
Owner/Creative Director
Bourke Media
http://www.bourkemedia.com


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: cc and the big enterprises
on Jun 18, 2013 at 9:28:18 pm

to my knowledge AP and a very large london post house (500+ employees globally) are already on board.
Anywhere looks to be an extremely powerful argument at a certain budgeting scale.

this really is the inverse of X you would think? - adobe are pretty forcefully heading north as opposed to south.

the issue they might have would be whether they lose too much blood pulling away from the mid ground. the subscriber base can only be so small.

there are only so many little guys/education/charities they can realistically throw over board?

past a certain point, they turn into the black knight?







http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Joseph W. Bourke
Re: cc and the big enterprises
on Jun 18, 2013 at 11:15:27 pm

And it looks like quite a few potential users are saying "Ni"!

Joe Bourke
Owner/Creative Director
Bourke Media
http://www.bourkemedia.com


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Walter Soyka
Re: cc and the big enterprises
on Jun 19, 2013 at 1:17:24 am

It's just a flesh wound.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Lance Bachelder
Re: cc and the big enterprises
on Jun 19, 2013 at 2:55:01 pm

Exactly... I expect Anywhere to be pretty much, everywhere in the near future:

http://www.adobe.com/products/adobeanywhere.html#nerolimedia_split_adobe-an...

Lance Bachelder
Writer, Editor, Director
Downtown Long Beach, California
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1680680/?ref_=fn_al_nm_1


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Oliver Peters
Re: cc and the big enterprises
on Jun 19, 2013 at 3:20:34 pm

[Lance Bachelder] "Exactly... I expect Anywhere to be pretty much, everywhere in the near future"

Only customers that can afford an Avid Interplay/ISIS level of infrastructure will be able to afford an installation of Anywhere. It requires a serious server-side investment.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Lance Bachelder
Re: cc and the big enterprises
on Jun 19, 2013 at 5:52:01 pm

True but this thread was asking if big enterprise might go Premiere which the video clearly shows they are - at least for now. None of the Avid stuff can come close to what Adobe is attempting to do - I mean we looked at the Avid stuff years ago and each seat, which only had the ability to view and make some notes, was 5 grand - after a 25 grand start fee just to turn the stuff on - not even talking hardware...Anywhere uses whatever infrastructure you have andother than some Tesla gear you're not locked into proprietary hardware/storage like Avid.

My thought is if Adobe can really get this to work well Premiere could become ubiquitous much the way Avid and FCP were years ago...

Lance Bachelder
Writer, Editor, Director
Downtown Long Beach, California
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1680680/?ref_=fn_al_nm_1


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Oliver Peters
Re: cc and the big enterprises
on Jun 19, 2013 at 7:02:55 pm

[Lance Bachelder] " mean we looked at the Avid stuff years ago and each seat, which only had the ability to view and make some notes, was 5 grand - after a 25 grand start fee just to turn the stuff on - not even talking hardware"

Here's more current info. Avid had a package price at NAB for $50K for a "starter system". This got you a small ISIS storage package, basic Interplay, hardware (server, storage), installation and support for the aforementioned, plus 3 seats of Media Composer (software license only). I doubt you will be able to touch a starting Anywhere installation for $50K.

Remember Anywhere will require shared storage and an associated server, a Windows server with redundancy to drive the software (and Mercury Streaming engine), server-based NVIDIA GPUs, Adobe Anywhere software and professional services to configure and install the system. Adobe told me at NAB that a minimum of 3 servers would be required and this would support 3-10 connections.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Lance Bachelder
Re: cc and the big enterprises
on Jun 19, 2013 at 7:46:40 pm

Avid pricing has come way down to earth - but to compete with Anywhere you'd have to get the Sphere package which starts at 89 grand and you're still locked into proprietary hardware.

I think the benefit of Anywhere to an IT person is they can use their favorite vendor for all the hardware - Isilon for instance - with the exception of the required Tesla cards and integrate it into the existing infrastructure.

It's gonna end up being a 6 figure purchase whether Avid or Adobe so it's still for larger companies for now...

Lance Bachelder
Writer, Editor, Director
Downtown Long Beach, California
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1680680/?ref_=fn_al_nm_1


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Oliver Peters
Re: cc and the big enterprises
on Jun 20, 2013 at 1:40:50 am

[Lance Bachelder] "but to compete with Anywhere you'd have to get the Sphere package which starts at 89 grand and you're still locked into proprietary hardware."

Well, yes, if you assume that Anywhere will be used for remote editing over the internet. I doubt you'll see many applications of that. Anywhere is far more likely to be deployed within a fixed facility or across a larger campus via their own WAN. If that's the comparison, then Sphere doesn't actually enter into the picture.

Furthermore, Avid with Sphere enables a hybrid of local and remote editing, including local ingest and transfer of media between locations. Anywhere doesn't allow anything to happen locally AFAIK.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Chris Harlan
Re: cc and the big enterprises
on Jun 20, 2013 at 4:46:01 am

[Oliver Peters] "Furthermore, Avid with Sphere enables a hybrid of local and remote editing, including local ingest and transfer of media between locations. Anywhere doesn't allow anything to happen locally AFAIK.
"


That was actually a pretty cool part of the Avid demo at NAB.


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Chris Harlan
Re: cc and the big enterprises
on Jun 19, 2013 at 3:07:26 am

[Ricardo Marty] "They have the cash but will they want their content potentially locked by an outside company or has adobe made exceptions with these companies?
"


I get that this is an annoying thing, but you guys are making way too much out of it. Backup of project files is a relatively recent thing. Many large entertainment corporations currently rely on no more than that child of tape, the stemmed backup file. And, XML/AFF are really terrific backup tools. Yes, you might have to reinterpret a few effects or transitions, and--wow, what happened to that slomo?--but really, its incredibly effective, and so incredibly much more than .edls. Its just not a viable argument.


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Paul Neumann
Re: cc and the big enterprises
on Jun 19, 2013 at 3:33:47 am

It's easier and cheaper than ever to archive a project nowadays. No digital tape costs, no individual graphics discs scattered about, no DLT. I don't ever remember clients bitching about the D5 tape and optical disc they had added to their bill at the end of every Henry session I did. Nowadays you can stick 100 times as much footage on a $80 drive and let them walk with it. Throw their project files on their and let them sort it out. Honestly, if all you had was the master and the footage you'd figure it out.


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