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Mike Chambers falls to the ground - begins to have visions.

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Aindreas Gallagher
Mike Chambers falls to the ground - begins to have visions.
on Jun 13, 2013 at 6:59:35 pm

Some of this stuff was put up previously, But Mike has expanded on the vision for Adobe as remote software as a service over at the adobe forums,
it's part of a lengthy exchange with seriously irate customers:
http://forums.adobe.com/thread/1206294?start=720&tstart=0

let's have a read:

However, more practically, over time more and more functionality in the desktop app will be based on, and or require access to services made available via Creative Cloud.... [that] eventually could include advanced image manipulating algorithms, or other image apis (in the case of photoshop).

this next bit is new:

It is this last point that I am particularly excited about. Because access to the APIs would require a Creative Cloud account, it would be in Adobe’s interest to allow anyone to use and build on top of those APIs (even traditional competitor’s to Adobe apps). This is a model good for Adobe (more Creative Cloud members), good for non-Adobe app creators (get access world class Adobe technology for their apps) and to users (have a wider range of apps and solutions). This is a huge change in incentives around Adobe technologies, as before, our incentive was to keep it as closed as possible so competitors don’t use it and eat into sales of individual products.

What's going on now? what the hell are adobe talking about? Does anyone buy that? have they put this in the investor prospectus? That they are going to start selling key software algorithms to other companies through these open API's? But just to be clear again - cutting through that - this half baked notion is a form of early justification for holding key adobe software API's remotely from the customer: that it, you know, enriches choice, or some sh*ite like that.

seriously - what the hell is going on. Does anyone have a clue what adobe's mid term goals are at this point? does anyone actually feel good about where this is going? Who, as a freelancer, wants to get aboard the CC mystery train?

At this point, anyone who doesn't think adobe will have non-functioning desktop software without continuous access to their servers for core API's inside five years is, you would have to feel, almost fooling themselves.

Man, Bad to worse, and worse again - does anyone even actually think adobe are competent to manage that scenario to begin with? Given file sync fell over and has been pulled until CC launch? or the fact that support is a bombsite? Seriously - don't look here for that - just go through the adobe forums. I really recommend a browse. CC support is a car crash. Adobe customer support is a kafkaesque nightmare of guys who generally have no clue what you are talking about - its more a cheap ramshackle direct sales group.

this. is. going. to be. a nightmare. I honestly suspect its going to turn into total FUBAR - I mean, everything could go swimmingly, but oh sweet dearie me, I'm not so sure about that at all.

http://www.adobe2014.tumblr.com
#adobe2014

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Rob Brandreth-Gibbs
Re: Mike Chambers falls to the ground - begins to have visions.
on Jun 13, 2013 at 8:20:53 pm

Just another sign that these are the End Days.

Rob Brandreth-Gibbs
Bravo Zulu Productions
Vancouver, Canada


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Chris Harlan
Re: Mike Chambers falls to the ground - begins to have visions.
on Jun 13, 2013 at 8:56:58 pm

[Rob Brandreth-Gibbs] "Just another sign that these are the End Days.
"


So this whole odd debacle has simply been a well executed promotion for a Seth Rogen film? After the release, is the perpetual license coming back?


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Rob Brandreth-Gibbs
Re: Mike Chambers falls to the ground - begins to have visions.
on Jun 13, 2013 at 9:43:30 pm

Up there, it's called the "Eternal License," but Adobe was having none of that.

Rob Brandreth-Gibbs
Bravo Zulu Productions
Vancouver, Canada


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: Mike Chambers falls to the ground - begins to have visions.
on Jun 13, 2013 at 9:23:55 pm

not really - just a company taking a position forcefully against the interests and best welfare of long term customers. Adobe aren't the worst people in the world, they're just a company gone to seed.

their web tools are increasingly dis-regarded - who doesn't think that is at the root of this corralling lock-in? Given where they are with flash?

there is a notion that a move like adobe are making here is a fait accompli - it bloody well is not. corporations can be pushed back.

so maybe, demand say at least the security of, for instance, a form of security inherent in a lease buyout - the five year loyalty scheme of tim dowse. I do not understand why anyone is confused here - adobe are unilaterally removing software ownership, being brutally bullish "we understand you may not go with this and that is fine" said mike chambers to the point of stultification at the above adobe link - adobe are literally daring their customers to confront them.

being serious - who doesn't like the idea of shoving back at this point? Cutting off the air for a bit?

see how adobe are then?

http://www.adobe2014.tumblr.com
#adobe2014

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Ricardo Marty
Re: Mike Chambers falls to the ground - begins to have visions.
on Jun 13, 2013 at 10:33:16 pm

If adobe wants to cloud they should exclude the video and photo people and cloud only the print and web people. I think that's probably there biggest user base and there files are not as problematic as ours.(I think)

Ricardo


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Jim Wiseman
Re: Mike Chambers falls to the ground - begins to have visions.
on Jun 14, 2013 at 5:03:01 pm

I read a thread, I think it was this one actually, on Adobe Forums, of a printer who has to deal with deadlines etc., as we all do. But in print, if something goes wrong, it can be hugely expensive. His point was what if one of these wonderful updates, that gets little testing in the wild, causes problems in a very large catalog job, something like prices, or the images of products, he could be stuck for $250,000 (his example) and the loss of his business. If less expensive, severe loss of reputation, and certainly clients. So it is not just the photo and video people who don't like it. I used to do work in print, photo books, and if anything, the print industry is much more resistant to change than photo and certainly video.

The natives are very restless.

Jim Wiseman
Sony PMW-EX1,Pana AJ-D810 DVCPro, DVX-100, Nikon D7000, Final Cut Studio 2 and 3, Media 100 Suite 2.1.3, Premiere Pro 5.5 and 6.0, AJA ioHD, AJA Kona LHi, Avid MC, Hexacore MacPro 3.33 Ghz 24Gb RAM GTX-285 120GB SSD, Macbook Pro 17" 2011 2.2 Ghz Quadcore i7 8Gb SSD, G5 Quadcore PCIe


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Rainer Schubert
Re: Mike Chambers falls to the ground - begins to have visions.
on Jun 14, 2013 at 10:10:07 pm

Be sure: Print designers are also pis.ed off.
There are many archived files you have to use.
Think of catalogues, Image brochures, Newsletters, ...
Very often, you have to take a part of an old project and modify it or put it into the new version.
Video editing is only a part of my business. And I think it´s like the opposite: I more often have to edit old print files than video files.
There is no difference. And also the hazel is the same.
I really have not one day in my business where I don´t have to open an file between 1-3 years old.
And there is also no great competition for the CS apps.
Worst thing in my eyes is Photoshop, as there is no real competitor after all for the moment.
But let´s hope, that the market takes it´s chance.
Adobe´s plan (to force nearly all users into cloud till the end of 2016!) will only work, if not too many users will walk away.
A first horizon will be seen to the end of 2013. From there on Adobes income is (nearly) only based on subscriptions.
The amount of Cloudies will dictate the price of fees :) - let´s wait and see.
They know and are in full knowledge, that they will lose income next years, but they don´t know how much income they will lose.
All is based on estimations. And it seems, they even wonder themselves about the users response.
----------
CC = Cash Cow = Terminating the word "Archive" in digital future = Lifelong dependency = NoGo = Never


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Rob Brandreth-Gibbs
Re: Mike Chambers falls to the ground - begins to have visions.
on Jun 13, 2013 at 11:45:07 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "see how adobe are then?"

And Microsoft. M$ Office by subscription and now its new Xbox such that the downloaded software can not be resold. It's like paying real money to buy property in a virtual reality game.

It's a Brave New World.

Can there be any doubt that all software companies relish this model? Presumably pricing will rise to just below the point of out-and-out rebellion. Like gas prices. And hockey tickets in Vancouver. The subtext being: If you don't like our products and pricing, please do not buy them (as there are plenty of people who will).

My belief is that Adobe is positioning itself strictly as software for professionals who view this as a simple cost of doing business. Much like Avid did (and perhaps still does).

You almost have to admire the way Adobe can pull up their own bootstraps to create this natural monopoly.

But Adobe is different. They'd never take advantage of their loyal customers.

OMG. Repent sinners. The end is near. June 17.

RBG
CC subscriber

Rob Brandreth-Gibbs
Bravo Zulu Productions
Vancouver, Canada


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Rainer Schubert
Re: Mike Chambers falls to the ground - begins to have visions.
on Jun 14, 2013 at 10:17:05 pm

I think, we - clients - are on a border to say "yes" or "no" to rental software.
As I read in threats, Adobe is still influenced by MS. MS owns parts of stock and has a member in the steering board.
No wonder, that MS is the next giant to force us.
As long as there are alternatives, I will not going into dependency.
CashCow or Xbox - they are unacceptable. And there is no advantage for the user (when thought to the end).
Can say: They try to fix us on.
It´s up to us getting in dependency or not.
Not a very mighty position, but a position we have to use, I think.
----------
CC = Cash Cow = Terminating the word "Archive" in digital future = Lifelong dependency = NoGo = Never


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David Lawrence
Re: Mike Chambers falls to the ground - begins to have visions.
on Jun 14, 2013 at 12:01:56 am

[Aindreas Gallagher] "there is a notion that a move like adobe are making here is a fait accompli - it bloody well is not. corporations can be pushed back."

Absolutely true.

CC = New Coke, XBOX One, Sim City 2013

#adobe2014
http://adobe2014.tumblr.com

_______________________
David Lawrence
art~media~design~research
propaganda.com
publicmattersgroup.com
facebook.com/dlawrence
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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: Mike Chambers falls to the ground - begins to have visions.
on Jun 14, 2013 at 12:50:19 am

quite - you could argue that there is actually a short public window for a demonstrable response.

an immediate wholesale rejection of the subscription offering through 2013 could turn out be the smartest thing any creative ever did.


basically this needs to be wholesale - a clean customer blockade for six short months.

http://www.adobe2014.tumblr.com
#adobe2014

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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David Lawrence
Re: Mike Chambers falls to the ground - begins to have visions.
on Jun 14, 2013 at 2:17:19 am

[Aindreas Gallagher] "but this needs to be wholesale - a clean customer blockade for six short months."

Agreed. The next six months are very important. I don't think it'll be that hard, especially judging from that thread you linked to. People are not happy. Not at all.

I posted my reply to Mike C. here:
http://forums.adobe.com/message/5407574#5407574

_______________________
David Lawrence
art~media~design~research
propaganda.com
publicmattersgroup.com
facebook.com/dlawrence
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Herb Sevush
Re: Mike Chambers falls to the ground - begins to have visions.
on Jun 14, 2013 at 4:07:09 pm

[David Lawrence] "I posted my reply to Mike C. here:"

My word, things are pretty toxic over at the Adobe forums, makes me appreciate how civilized and calm our Cow brethren are. Aindreas is an absolute milquetoast in comparison. Nothing like having a huge corporation take a public dump on its user base to inspire such vitriol. The past is prologue I guess.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: Mike Chambers falls to the ground - begins to have visions.
on Jun 14, 2013 at 4:38:23 pm

hilariously - adobe are now manipulating the landing page for the CC forums. that thread has hundreds of replies, but it never turns up anymore on the main page anymore - I though that was just a sad move on adobe's part.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Jim Wiseman
Re: Mike Chambers falls to the ground - begins to have visions.
on Jun 14, 2013 at 7:11:34 pm

The thread No perpetual licenses are you serious? Seems to be jumping up and down between "Trending Questions" and "Unanswered Questions" on the Creative Cloud Forum. Unanswered Questions seems a particularly appropriate category. 949 posts there as of now. Good one, David.

Jim Wiseman
Sony PMW-EX1,Pana AJ-D810 DVCPro, DVX-100, Nikon D7000, Final Cut Studio 2 and 3, Media 100 Suite 2.1.3, Premiere Pro 5.5 and 6.0, AJA ioHD, AJA Kona LHi, Avid MC, Hexacore MacPro 3.33 Ghz 24Gb RAM GTX-285 120GB SSD, Macbook Pro 17" 2011 2.2 Ghz Quadcore i7 8Gb SSD, G5 Quadcore PCIe


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Ricardo Marty
Re: Mike Chambers falls to the ground - begins to have visions.
on Jun 15, 2013 at 1:39:12 pm

The sad news is that despite all the uproar they will continue head on into the cloud at least until the end of 2013 then hopefully the cloud will condense.

Ricardo


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Derek Andonian
Re: Mike Chambers falls to the ground - begins to have visions.
on Jun 14, 2013 at 3:31:55 am

[Aindreas Gallagher] an immediate wholesale rejection of the subscription offering through 2013 could turn out be the smartest thing any living creative ever did.
(full private trendy group emails would/are actually a start.)

but this needs to be wholesale - a clean customer blockade for six short months.


As I mentioned before, I made a Facebook page to help get the word out about this boycott movement- and I think it could be very helpful in building momentum. If someone who is on the fence about all this sees that a lot of people have liked this page that is encouraging Adobe users to avoid creative cloud, I think that could help influence them to also avoid it.

I've also done status updates that are related to Creative Cloud issues- a couple of which have refuted claims that Adobe has made about why the move to all-cloud was a great thing to do (with more to come).

It would be really cool if I could talk you and David into adding the address for the page to your signatures alongside that other adobe2014 stuff. I think it would be a great asset to our cause if more people knew about it...

https://www.facebook.com/creativecloudboycott

Greg Andonian, a.k.a. Derek

______________________________________________
Facebook.com/creativecloudboycott

adobe2014.tumblr.com

#adobe2014


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Chris Pettit
Re: Mike Chambers falls to the ground - begins to have visions.
on Jun 14, 2013 at 4:15:44 pm

100 percent agree. Unless Adobe announces something new in regard to buyouts. Which I doubt


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Ricardo Marty
Re: Mike Chambers falls to the ground - begins to have visions.
on Jun 14, 2013 at 12:54:11 am

add netflix and ms 360.

Ricardo


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Derek Andonian
Re: Mike Chambers falls to the ground - begins to have visions.
on Jun 14, 2013 at 5:33:02 am

[Ricardo Marty] add netflix

Ah, yes- Who could forget the great Qwikster debacle of 2011...

But as bad as it was, that one showed us that consumer backlashes CAN make a difference- so let's keep the pressure on. ;)

#adobe2014

Greg Andonian, a.k.a. Derek

______________________________________________
Facebook.com/creativecloudboycott

adobe2014.tumblr.com

#adobe2014


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Andrew Kimery
Re: Mike Chambers falls to the ground - begins to have visions.
on Jun 14, 2013 at 3:42:55 pm

[Derek Andonian] "Ah, yes- Who could forget the great Qwikster debacle of 2011...

But as bad as it was, that one showed us that consumer backlashes CAN make a difference- so let's keep the pressure on. ;)"


Netflix still got their price hikes (almost doubling the price of their most popular plan) which I think is what they really wanted. In hindsight Qwikster could've been a pre-planned concession to users in order to take heat off the price hike. Pre-planned or not it worked pretty well for Netflix as I see many people reference the backpedaling on Qwikster as a consumer victory but they seem to have forgotten about the price hikes.




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Ricardo Marty
Re: Mike Chambers falls to the ground - begins to have visions.
on Jun 14, 2013 at 3:48:53 pm

Most of us are only concerened with not having aa perpetual lic. and losing access to oour files. Price is important but not the main issue.

Ricardo


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Andrew Kimery
Re: Mike Chambers falls to the ground - begins to have visions.
on Jun 14, 2013 at 5:17:21 pm

[Ricardo Marty] "Most of us are only concerened with not having aa perpetual lic. and losing access to oour files. Price is important but not the main issue.
"


My response was just to point out that Netflix got what it wanted in the end (which in this case was a price hike) so citing that as an example of consumer backlash winning is dubious, IMO.




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Daniel Frome
Re: Mike Chambers falls to the ground - begins to have visions.
on Jun 14, 2013 at 2:00:22 pm

I can't imagine the Premiere Pro and AE teams being in favor of this. Using the cloud on big video files will counter all the processing efficiency they've spent a decade working on. It sounds like the Flash team needed a new gig and the marketing department bought it.


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Tim Wilson
Re: Mike Chambers falls to the ground - begins to have visions.
on Jun 17, 2013 at 12:03:06 am

[Daniel Frome] "I can't imagine the Premiere Pro and AE teams being in favor of this."

I know nothing insidery, and I'm speaking for myself as a former developer, and NOT as a member of the COW team....but I'd think that the opposite is true. They'll be able to move much more quickly by not having to wait for every application in the suite to update. "Need a new camera format? Then no need to wait for a new version of Illustrator. We'll get it to you as quickly as we can."

More broadly, I'd think that these are the applications with the most moving pieces, and would therefore benefit from more frequent updates to components than the current methods allow. Being freed from DVDs, massive installers, and inflexible schedules would be a blessing.

This has nothing to do with pricing, of course, and we'll see how this works out in practice. But from a technology point of view, I'm betting the AE and Premiere development teams see this as a big win. I'd have killed for something similar back in the day.


[Daniel Frome] "Using the cloud on big video files will counter all the processing efficiency they've spent a decade working on"

Don't forget, the USE of Creative Cloud isn't web-based. That is, neither the software nor your files reside in the cloud. The software is DEPLOYED over the interwebs, rather than via DVD, but the software itself, and your files, live locally on your computers or on YOUR servers, not Adobe's, working the way you've always used them. You'll just need to connect to the web once a month to ping the license validation. That's it.

Now, if you're talking about Adobe Anywhere, that's an extension of technologies that Adobe bought with Macromedia in 2005 and, perhaps even importantly, and certainly less known, Amicima in 2006. (Very interesting article about the hardcore back end of Adobe Anywhereat Creative Impatience, one of the best blog names ever.) They've been tuning performance on this stuff for a very long time, and with the Mercury Streaming Engine on the front end, real-world performance appears to be very, very impressive, even with massive files.

At least to me. As is well known, I don't actually DO video for a living anymore, but SEEING it has been pretty sweet.

Adobe is also not the first to do this. Quantel started shipping their QTube solution in 2011. I saw Avid Interplay Sphere demoed at NAB 2012, and I seem to recall very public technology demos in prior years, even before the product had a name.

So yeah, optimizing this part of the process has been underway for a long time.


Hopping back to the beginning of the thread...:

[Aindreas Gallagher] [quoting Adobe:] " ...it would be in Adobe’s interest to allow anyone to use and build on top of those APIs (even traditional competitor’s to Adobe apps)."

[Aindreas Gallagher] "does anyone even actually think adobe are competent to manage that scenario to begin with? "

I apologize if I've misunderstood the relationship between these two sentences, Aindreas, but I would say yes, absolutely. Adobe has been doing this for over 20 years.

Working at both Boris FX and Avid, I was on development teams that both worked WITH Adobe on key TECHNOLOGIES, as well as competed AGAINST Adode on key PRODUCTS, including Adobe Premiere and Adobe After Effects. The Media Composer family was one such team I worked on -- bunches of support from Adobe on a number of fronts to improve interop with Adobe products and technology, while also competing for some of the same customers with NLEs.

In that sense, beyond products OR technologies, Adobe has endeavored to create PLATFORMS. You've surely been around long enough to remember when the best reason to buy After Effects was so you could run Final Effects. LOL Flash, AIR, and other Adobe technologies have also been prospering as platforms for a very long time.

Now if APPLE was the one claiming to support open APIs that allowed competitors to prosper, I'd laugh out loud. But Apple doesn't even joke about that stuff when they're smoking weed. And nobody would believe them, even if THEY were smoking weed. That's not what Apple has ever done. It's what Adobe has ALWAYS done.


As complicated as some of the questions around Creative Cloud and Adobe Anywhere can be, these seem like some of the simplest to address, because Adobe has already been addressing them for a long time. Apologies if I've misunderstood your issues, Aindreas or Daniel, or have sounded condescending in what I hope is an even-handed attempt to clarify things as I see them.

And BIGGEST apologies if I've misunderstood the basics of Creative Cloud and Adobe Anywhere, and have extolled the wrong virtues. Wouldn't be the first time. LOL

Did I mention that I'm only speaking for myself and not the COW? Perhaps I should mention again that I'm only speaking for myself and not the COW.


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David Lawrence
Re: Mike Chambers falls to the ground - begins to have visions.
on Jun 17, 2013 at 12:13:54 am

[Tim Wilson] "Don't forget, the USE of Creative Cloud isn't web-based. That is, neither the software nor your files reside in the cloud. The software is DEPLOYED over the interwebs, rather than via DVD, but the software itself, and your files, live locally on your computers or on YOUR servers, not Adobe's, working the way you've always used them. You'll just need to connect to the web once a month to ping the license validation. That's it."

Quite correct. That's why calling Creative Cloud a service is a bogus marketing fabrication. If it lives on my hard drive and runs on my CPU, it's software. Period.

Adobe Anywhere could actually turn into a real service that I'd gladly subscribe to when needed. But
CC in its current form is a candy-coated DRM lock-in scheme.

I'm curious Tim -- what do you think of the loyalty buy-out idea that's been floating around?

_______________________
David Lawrence
art~media~design~research
propaganda.com
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facebook.com/dlawrence
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Tim Wilson
Re: Mike Chambers falls to the ground - begins to have visions.
on Jun 18, 2013 at 7:58:54 am

[David Lawrence] "That's why calling Creative Cloud a service is a bogus marketing fabrication."

Well, I dunno about that. Do you expect there to be either grapes or nuts inside a box of Grape Nuts? I certainly don't expect a Dodge Ram truck to have anything to do with an actual ram. Or RAM, for that matter. Like all branding, it's just a name that's intended to elicit an emotional response.

Mission accomplished. LOL

But I think the name is genius. The Creative Suite created a new product category that left everyone scrambling to catch up. Adobe introduced Creative Suite in September 2003. Both Avid and Apple had "suite" offerings the following NAB. Avid's was Xpress Studio, which I helped launch and manage. I'm not giving any secrets away to say that it was in direct response to Adobe.

Apple left NO doubts about the direct connection when they named their new release "Production Suite." They actually used the word SUITE in response to Adobe's Suite!

Apple changed the name (and tweaked the concept) in 2005 to: a) re-emphasize Final Cut Pro, and b) steal something from another company TWO YEARS IN A ROW:

Adobe SUITE (2003) leads to Apple SUITE (2004)
Avid STUDIO(2004) leads to Apple STUDIO(2005)

Always gotta admire that Apple innovation. Awesome. LOL

I'm not going to apologize for a joke at Apple's expense, but I will point out the seriousness of the challenge that Adobe posed with the Creative Suite: Apple's first response so strongly mirrored Adobe that it actually took Apple out of its own game. It took Apple TWO revs to figure out its own proper response to the Creative Suite, and they were ultimately nowhere nearly as successful as Adobe.

So what's Adobe do for their next chapter? Define a new category again, and pose a potentially bigger challenge.

The fact is that "cloud" has many meanings -- which is different (to me anyway) than saying it means nothing. It's unfortunate that people are objecting to aspects of Creative Cloud that don't actually exist -- but again, far different than saying that no aspect of the word Cloud can rightly apply to what Adobe is doing.

Quite the contrary. I think they're doing with the word Cloud what they did with the word Suite: staking a claim, and, frankly, throwing down on the rest of the industry. Again! I admire them for it.

I can summarize what was probably a month of whiteboarding in San Jose in a couple of sentences: the nature of the "Suite" is the part that's changing, and NOT the "Creative" part, so you keep the name "Creative" and figure out the noun from there. "Hmmm, COW is taken, so what's a name that kinda sounds LIKE Creative COW? Hmmmm...."

I'M KIDDING.

Anyway, the specifics of how I see the NAME of Creative Cloud both reflecting the current state, and predicting the future NATURE of Creative Cloud belong on their own thread, but I wanted to be really clear on this point. I think it's a great name. I hope whoever named it got a cake that Friday.



[David Lawrence] "I'm curious Tim -- what do you think of the loyalty buy-out idea that's been floating around?"

I appreciate that you allowed me to answer the previous post in my personal persona, so I'm going to answer this one in my personal persona too: I'm liking what Adobe is doing, and I don't feel a need to change any of it.

That's ME.

In general though, I'm all about options. If Adobe can solve a lot of the world's problems by offering customer options that still allow Adobe to meet its own goals for Creative Cloud -- sure, go for it. ALL companies can turn GOOD choices into BETTER choices with customer insight.

Maybe it's because I came up in the days when a single call to a company support line cost far more than a year of Creative Cloud. Depending on the company, more than a couple of years of Creative Cloud. So when it comes to prices, licenses, etc. I feel like I don't have anything helpful to contribute to that aspect of the conversation.

I'm also aware that my experience in software development is coloring my response as a software customer. (And yes, I buy my own software.) I'd have killed to be able to work like this.

I hope that doesn't sound like a dick answer. I only meant to be a dick about Apple. LOL Otherwise, I'm gladly yielding the floor to smart people like you who've been motivated to think about it more deeply than I have.

And again, expressing my gratitude to you for letting me step outside my official role to talk person to person.

But believe me when I say that I'm intently following the conversation, regardless of my own feelings or the eventual outcome. :-) I have no doubt there's plenty of interesting stuff ahead.



PS. As I've been typing this off and on for the past couple of hours while I'm doing some cooking, I've been parked next to a Media Composer banner whose only words besides the name of the software and the price are "Own It." Good for them! Always gonna love me some throwdown.

And to my earlier point about YOUR point, some problems can have more than one solution, even if they don't happen to be a problem for ME. Carry on!


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: Mike Chambers falls to the ground - begins to have visions.
on Jun 19, 2013 at 7:53:03 pm

do you know, it is very possible to forget that you have been upside and around from every angle on all this stuff Tim.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Tim Wilson
Re: Mike Chambers falls to the ground - begins to have visions.
on Jun 19, 2013 at 9:06:29 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "it is very possible to forget that you have been upside and around from every angle on all this stuff Tim."

Believe me, I wish that I could forget more of it than I have. LOL


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