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One of the best things about the Mac Pro finally getting upgraded...

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Derek Andonian
One of the best things about the Mac Pro finally getting upgraded...
on Jun 12, 2013 at 7:55:07 am

...Is now we won't keep seeing the word 'iMac' coming up in threads about high-end professional editing.

I know it's a highly-capable machine for a lot of things, but it just feels out of place here- especially that new pregnant anorexic version that comes with a 5400 rpm laptop drive standard. :P

Greg Andonian, a.k.a. Derek

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Jim Wiseman
Re: One of the best things about the Mac Pro finally getting upgraded...
on Jun 12, 2013 at 8:51:17 am

I agree. While very capable, the iMac isn't up to what we are seeing from the new Mac Pro. It also shows a major commitment from Apple. This thing wasn't thrown together in a short period of time. Looks as if they were doing something for the last couple of years.

http://www.adobe2014.tumblr.com
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Jim Wiseman
Sony PMW-EX1,Pana AJ-D810 DVCPro, DVX-100, Nikon D7000, Final Cut Studio 2 and 3, Media 100 Suite 2.1.3, Premiere Pro 5.5 and 6.0, AJA ioHD, AJA Kona LHi, Avid MC, Hexacore MacPro 3.33 Ghz 24Gb RAM GTX-285 120GB SSD, Macbook Pro 17" 2011 2.2 Ghz Quadcore i7 8Gb SSD, G5 Quadcore PCIe


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Walter Soyka
Re: One of the best things about the Mac Pro finally getting upgraded...
on Jun 12, 2013 at 1:53:00 pm

[Derek Andonian] "...Is now we won't keep seeing the word 'iMac' coming up in threads about high-end professional editing."

Now that editors have become accustomed to spending $2,000-$4,000 on capable iMac systems for editorial, I think that getting them to spend $6,000- $10,000 on Mac Pro systems again may be challenging.

I'm sincerely curious: who do you guys think will buy this new system? Who needs more than an iMac and less than a sizzle-core HP Z-series?

I understand how Apple will differentiate the Mac Pro from the iMac on the spec sheets, but how will they differentiate them in terms of actual real-world capability?

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Clint Wardlow
Re: One of the best things about the Mac Pro finally getting upgraded...
on Jun 12, 2013 at 2:26:05 pm

[Walter Soyka] "I'm sincerely curious: who do you guys think will buy this new system? Who needs more than an iMac and less than a sizzle-core HP Z-series?"

Those of us who had to hang our heads in shame whenever we told fellow editors we were using an imac (or other arty types that didn't know squat but somehow knew a real pro would never stoop to an imac).

When I decided to switch from my ancient mac pro to an imac, my social standing dropped through the floor. I was no longer invited to the posh parties with with fashion models, brie, caviar, and wine in a bottle. It was all sordid affairs with car show models, cheese whiz, and boxed wine.

I was considering attaching a few blinking lights to my old mac box and telling folks that my imac was only a monitor.

But now, I will be able to proudly say: "I use a mac pro and it is shaped like a tube!" The doors to the glitterati will once again open up and the sun will finally break through the clouds basking me in the warm glow that only a mac pro can provide.


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Lance Bachelder
Re: One of the best things about the Mac Pro finally getting upgraded...
on Jun 12, 2013 at 2:54:33 pm

Nice!

Lance Bachelder
Writer, Editor, Director
Downtown Long Beach, California
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1680680/?ref_=fn_al_nm_1


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Kevin Monahan
Re: One of the best things about the Mac Pro finally getting upgraded...
on Jun 12, 2013 at 3:50:40 pm

[Clint Wardlow] "But now, I will be able to proudly say: "I use a mac pro and it is shaped like a tube!" The doors to the glitterati will once again open up and the sun will finally break through the clouds basking me in the warm glow that only a mac pro can provide."

Thank you for the best laugh I've had in weeks!

Kevin Monahan
Social Support Lead
Adobe After Effects
Adobe Premiere Pro
Adobe Systems, Inc.
Follow Me on Twitter!


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Ridley Walker
Re: One of the best things about the Mac Pro finally getting upgraded...
on Jun 12, 2013 at 3:30:29 pm

[Walter Soyka] "I'm sincerely curious: who do you guys think will buy this new system? Who needs more than an iMac and less than a sizzle-core HP Z-series?
"


As usual Walter has nailed it. Its not clear who Apple is targeting with this machine. I'm a current MacPro owner and I'm non-plussed. I'd need to hang dozens of cables from the back of my current rig to duplicated its capabilities. The power of the new MacPro can be matched by a BTO PC, which can be 'hackintoshed' if you want the OS.

I just don't get it.


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Steve Connor
Re: One of the best things about the Mac Pro finally getting upgraded...
on Jun 12, 2013 at 3:44:13 pm

[Ridley Walker] "I'd need to hang dozens of cables from the back of my current rig to duplicated its capabilities. "

I'm confused why people are finding this an issue, ever since the early days of Avid there have always been cables hanging out of the back of my computers. If it affects the way the system works then the concern is understandable, but beyond that I don't see the problem. One or two cables to a PCi Chassis and another to an iO box and you have the same as the current Mac


[Ridley Walker] "The power of the new MacPro can be matched by a BTO PC, which can be 'hackintoshed' if you want the OS. "

Nothing new here, that has always been the case with the MacPro

Steve Connor

There's nothing we can't argue about on the FCPX COW Forum


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Ridley Walker
Re: One of the best things about the Mac Pro finally getting upgraded...
on Jun 12, 2013 at 4:42:49 pm

[Steve Connor] "I'm confused why people are finding this an issue, ever since the early days of Avid there have always been cables hanging out of the back of my computers. If it affects the way the system works then the concern is understandable, but beyond that I don't see the problem. One or two cables to a PCi Chassis and another to an iO box and you have the same as the current Mac
"


True, I currently have 5 drives in the MacPro plus the DVDR as well I have several boxes attached and therefor cables to my MacPro, external RAIDs, a Matrox MXO, a USB hub and 7 USB devices hanging off it. Add to that couple of Monitors, a few eSata drives. All this to say its already a tangled rats nest of cables despite my best efforts to keep things organized and tidy. The new MacPro necessitates moving several devices into their own external boxes adding to the confusion. I'd prefer not to have to add a PCI chassis at an extra cost, what would I gain?

I can have all that in a hackintosh. Though I've never had one this new MacPro design is making me look seriously at building one.


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Steve Connor
Re: One of the best things about the Mac Pro finally getting upgraded...
on Jun 12, 2013 at 5:31:33 pm

[Ridley Walker] "True, I currently have 5 drives in the MacPro plus the DVDR as well I have several boxes attached and therefor cables to my MacPro, external RAIDs, a Matrox MXO, a USB hub and 7 USB devices hanging off it. Add to that couple of Monitors, a few eSata drives. All this to say its already a tangled rats nest of cables despite my best efforts to keep things organized and tidy. The new MacPro necessitates moving several devices into their own external boxes adding to the confusion. I'd prefer not to have to add a PCI chassis at an extra cost, what would I gain? "

What do you currently have in your MacPro that would need a PCi chassis?

Steve Connor

There's nothing we can't argue about on the FCPX COW Forum


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Ridley Walker
Re: One of the best things about the Mac Pro finally getting upgraded...
on Jun 12, 2013 at 6:19:54 pm

[Steve Connor] "What do you currently have in your MacPro that would need a PCi chassis?
"


nVidia Card. I need the CUDA. I also have an MXO board but they have TB option for that now, eSata card as well but that could also transition to TB.


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Herb Sevush
Re: One of the best things about the Mac Pro finally getting upgraded...
on Jun 13, 2013 at 11:48:30 am

[Steve Connor] "What do you currently have in your MacPro that would need a PCi chassis?"

2 raid controller cards, 1 Areca, 1 Atto, and a Blackmagic i/o.

It is true that if I were starting from scratch I could have Tblt raids and i/0, but the fact is I have over 10K worth of Raids and i/o that are PCIe and I'm not about to throw them out. I believe many Mac Pro owners are in the same boat. If anything I was hoping the new MacPro would have increased the # of PCIe lanes, not gotten rid of them altogether.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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Shawn Miller
Re: One of the best things about the Mac Pro finally getting upgraded...
on Jun 12, 2013 at 3:42:20 pm

[Walter Soyka] "I'm sincerely curious: who do you guys think will buy this new system? Who needs more than an iMac and less than a sizzle-core HP Z-series?

I understand how Apple will differentiate the Mac Pro from the iMac on the spec sheets, but how will they differentiate them in terms of actual real-world capability?"


That's a really good question. From all reports, FCPX and Motion already "scream" on the iMac. For those who are buying, how much are you willing to pay for this new beast?

Shawn



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Steve Connor
Re: One of the best things about the Mac Pro finally getting upgraded...
on Jun 12, 2013 at 3:45:45 pm

[Shawn Miller] "That's a really good question. From all reports, FCPX and Motion already "scream" on the iMac. For those who are buying, how much are you willing to pay for this new beast?
"


They might "scream" with HD but we're shooting 4K now and that's going to need more GPU power to get as much realtime as possible

Steve Connor

There's nothing we can't argue about on the FCPX COW Forum


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Shawn Miller
Re: One of the best things about the Mac Pro finally getting upgraded...
on Jun 12, 2013 at 3:52:24 pm

[Steve Connor] "[Shawn Miller] "That's a really good question. From all reports, FCPX and Motion already "scream" on the iMac. For those who are buying, how much are you willing to pay for this new beast?
"

They might "scream" with HD but we're shooting 4K now and that's going to need more GPU power to get as much realtime as possible"


So it's really the prospect of more GPU power that's the draw. What's the ideal price point for you? If it's a 6k machine, will you bite?

Shawn



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Steve Connor
Re: One of the best things about the Mac Pro finally getting upgraded...
on Jun 12, 2013 at 4:19:33 pm

[Shawn Miller] "So it's really the prospect of more GPU power that's the draw. What's the ideal price point for you? If it's a 6k machine, will you bite?
"


Probably, if performance is very good.

Steve Connor

There's nothing we can't argue about on the FCPX COW Forum


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Walter Soyka
Re: One of the best things about the Mac Pro finally getting upgraded...
on Jun 12, 2013 at 5:03:00 pm

[Steve Connor] "They might "scream" with HD but we're shooting 4K now and that's going to need more GPU power to get as much realtime as possible"

Forgive me, Steve, but I don't have a Sandy Bridge iMac. What's the current 4K editorial performance like in FCPX?

(BTW, I work with large format [>4K] rasters all the time, but on the 3D/mograph side, and that's exactly the reason I want more CPU!)

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Charlie Austin
Re: One of the best things about the Mac Pro finally getting upgraded...
on Jun 12, 2013 at 5:17:35 pm

[Walter Soyka] " What's the current 4K editorial performance like in FCPX?"

You may have seen these, but check the filmmakers comments in the second post. He likes it. :-) I thought he did a followup, but I can't find it...

http://www.fcp.co/render-fodder/videos/39-videos/1148-three-beautiful-examp...

http://www.fcp.co/render-fodder/videos/1069-marty-knapp-a-beautiful-short-f...

-------------------------------------------------------------


~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Steve Connor
Re: One of the best things about the Mac Pro finally getting upgraded...
on Jun 12, 2013 at 5:29:44 pm

[Walter Soyka] "Forgive me, Steve, but I don't have a Sandy Bridge iMac. What's the current 4K editorial performance like in FCPX?"

I've only had a couple of edit days with one as I'm still on 2008 MacPro in the office, but 4K XAVC in FCPX works well in single streams but starts to creak a little after 3 or 4 layers, especially if you switch on higher quality.

Steve Connor

There's nothing we can't argue about on the FCPX COW Forum


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Charlie Austin
Re: One of the best things about the Mac Pro finally getting upgraded...
on Jun 12, 2013 at 3:50:50 pm

[Shawn Miller] "From all reports, FCPX and Motion already "scream" on the iMac."

They do. But I'd like them to "shriek". The tube fits the bill. :-)

-------------------------------------------------------------


~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Daniel Frome
Re: One of the best things about the Mac Pro finally getting upgraded...
on Jun 12, 2013 at 5:15:21 pm

This is just my personal opinion/story, but every damn time in the history of computing, mac or not, whenever I upgrade I am initially excited but also a little disappointed by the added speed and power. It's not that either of those factors are lacking, but it's the realization that I didn't need it in the first place, and that my brain remains the biggest issue on whether something gets done faster or not :p

Then I spend a few weeks enjoying some added efficiently, a mix of placebo and real-world performance boost, but eventually settle down into roughly the same time frame: whenever the client says it needs to be done, it somehow gets done but rarely a moment earlier :p

I think I'm finally catching on and realizing that I don't need this machine. I'll wait until my rMBP is tearing at the seams and possibly buy the 2nd gen 16 or 24 core version :p I still enjoy the giddiness of discussing new hardware though ;)


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Joseph W. Bourke
Re: One of the best things about the Mac Pro finally getting upgraded...
on Jun 12, 2013 at 7:23:57 pm

That's Moore's Law at its finest:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moore's_law

The only really huge jump in speed and efficiency for me has been the move to a 64-bit OS, along with CS6, both with Premiere and After Effects seeing a jump in performance. Everything else has been more or less a yawner, like you say.

Joe Bourke
Owner/Creative Director
Bourke Media
http://www.bourkemedia.com


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Jim Wiseman
Re: One of the best things about the Mac Pro finally getting upgraded...
on Jun 13, 2013 at 3:54:02 pm

It didn't sound as if Grant Petty was yawning when he tested it on Resolve 10. I think this is going to be an order of magnitude faster than anything available on the Mac before. And most towers in general in the price range. This is likely to remain a single CPU machine for an Intel cycle or most likely two. I have a 2010 and a 2012 Mac Pro now, and this is far beyond those. I don't want to wait another 18, 24 or who knows how many months for more cores. That is unfortunately up to Intel. My eye is on those incredible GPUs and the the 1250 MB/sec Flash storage. Probably get the LaCie Thunderbolt to eSata for my RAIDs. Other options are bound to come. Will make a decision when I see the price, but I would bet they come in close to the current Mac Pro scheme.

Jim Wiseman
Sony PMW-EX1,Pana AJ-D810 DVCPro, DVX-100, Nikon D7000, Final Cut Studio 2 and 3, Media 100 Suite 2.1.3, Premiere Pro 5.5 and 6.0, AJA ioHD, AJA Kona LHi, Avid MC, Hexacore MacPro 3.33 Ghz 24Gb RAM GTX-285 120GB SSD, Macbook Pro 17" 2011 2.2 Ghz Quadcore i7 8Gb SSD, G5 Quadcore PCIe


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David Lawrence
Re: One of the best things about the Mac Pro finally getting upgraded...
on Jun 14, 2013 at 2:53:32 am

[Jim Wiseman] "I think this is going to be an order of magnitude faster than anything available on the Mac before. And most towers in general in the price range. "

Yep, this will be a fast machine and aimed squarely at pros. I think price will be a big deal as far as sales, but I don't think Apple cares. This is Apple making a statement, telling pros they really do care. That makes me happy.

Even though it's probably not the best ft for me personally, I can think of many use cases where it would be great. In particular, as Bill D. mentioned in another thread, live performance. To that I'd add art installations and video walls. I could do a lot with three 4K real-time synced streams. I produced one piece in particular a few years ago this would be perfect for. Of course, getting three 4K projectors might be a bit of a challenge...

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