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Ricardo Marty
Avid DS
on Jun 9, 2013 at 6:31:11 pm

I avid ds comparable thp PPro and A/E?

Ricardo


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Oliver Peters
Re: Avid DS
on Jun 9, 2013 at 8:10:27 pm

In what way? DS is more like Smoke than PPro+AE.

It's a full-blown NLE with powerful track-based and node-based compositing. Good color correction tools, too. PC-only. AFAIK, there's less overall support for native camera codecs, so you'll do more importing. I think DS still comes with a seat of Media Composer included in the price.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Ricardo Marty
Re: Avid DS
on Jun 9, 2013 at 10:21:56 pm

I got mc 6. Ds comes as a software program so I thought it something like AE.

ricardo


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Greg Andonian
Re: Avid DS
on Jun 10, 2013 at 12:07:58 am

[Oliver Peters] It's a full-blown NLE with powerful track-based and node-based compositing. Good color correction tools, too.

That actually sounds pretty cool. I didn't know there was node-based stuff in it. I haven't heard much of anything about DS, beyond an occasional mention with very few details about what it does. I imagine the fact that it's PC-only has a lot to do with that.

Out of curiosity, anyone know what the 'DS' stands for?

Greg Andonian, a.k.a. Derek

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Walter Soyka
Re: Avid DS
on Jun 10, 2013 at 12:35:29 am

[Greg Andonian] "Out of curiosity, anyone know what the 'DS' stands for?"

Digital Studio.

DS was an old Softimage application. IIRC, Softimage was bought by Microsoft (hence the tight Windows dependencies). DS was sold to Avid, and the Softimage 3D application ended up with Autodesk.

I evaluated DS the same time I evaluated Smoke. DS had a lot of great ideas, but the product is sadly behind the times now. I chose Smoke, both for its current feature set and the fact that Autodesk seems interested in improving the product; I'm not sure Avid is actually aware they own DS.

It's a pity. I really wanted to like DS. It must have been amazing 12 years ago.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Greg Andonian
Re: Avid DS
on Jun 10, 2013 at 1:39:58 am

[Walter Soyka] I'm not sure Avid is actually aware they own DS.

This made me laugh.

Greg Andonian, a.k.a. Derek

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Walter Soyka
Re: Avid DS
on Jun 10, 2013 at 2:01:06 am

[Greg Andonian] "This made me laugh."

Yet it makes DS artists cry...

There is a learning edition available if you have a PC and want to see want DS is all about.

As Oliver mentions, Fusion is kind of a big deal now for Avid -- it seems it could fill in a lot of the gaps in DS.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Simon Ubsdell
Re: Avid DS
on Jun 10, 2013 at 8:37:30 am

[Walter Soyka] "It's a pity. I really wanted to like DS. It must have been amazing 12 years ago."

It was - back then while Softimage still owned it, it was seriously amazing.

Then AVID bought it and did everything necessary to starve it of oxygen in order to protect "Symphony" - the only new idea they brought to the table was trying to make it more like Media Composer which was a typical piece of idiocy.

Simon Ubsdell
http://www.tokyo-uk.com


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Oliver Peters
Re: Avid DS
on Jun 10, 2013 at 12:35:53 pm

[Simon Ubsdell] "the only new idea they brought to the table"

Actually I believe it was Avid who added the node tree, which was brought over from Illusion (also owned by Avid at the time).

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Simon Ubsdell
Re: Avid DS
on Jun 10, 2013 at 1:13:06 pm

[Oliver Peters] "Actually I believe it was Avid who added the node tree, which was brought over from Illusion (also owned by Avid at the time)."

Shows how the memory plays tricks on you - I could have sworn it was there in the original Softimage version.

In which case, hats off to AVID for that - it was one of the features that really made DS standout at the time. You could do some really powerful stuff that was only otherwise available on much more expensive systems then. Not that DS was remotely cheap by today's standards.

Simon Ubsdell
http://www.tokyo-uk.com


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Oliver Peters
Re: Avid DS
on Jun 10, 2013 at 1:23:22 pm

[Simon Ubsdell] "I could have sworn it was there in the original Softimage version."

IIRC the Softimage version only used effects containers (the equivalent to nests or compound clips), but might have had some basic nodes. I seem to recall the earliest version was more standard NLE-style compositing.

Softimage also had a software product called Eddie, if memory serves me right. That was a sort of compositing add-on to work in conjunction with their 3D animation software. It might have had nodes.

The big selling point for the first DS versions was that this was the first software-based, uncompressed 601 NLE. It also featured gestural editing and hardware control surface support.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Simon Ubsdell
Re: Avid DS
on Jun 10, 2013 at 2:39:36 pm

[Oliver Peters] "IIRC the Softimage version only used effects containers (the equivalent to nests or compound clips), but might have had some basic nodes."

I started using DS in early 1999 when it had only recently been bought by AVID and presumably the original Softimage team were still the guys working on it (it wasn't rebranded as AVID DS until September 2000).

I'm pretty sure it already had the node architecture in place at that point so it might be giving AVID too much credit to attribute this to them rather than the original developers.

Another great feature about the early DS was the sophisticated project management which was very advanced for the time.

Once it became AVID DS we certainly never saw anything like the same level of innovation in the product - to say the least.

Simon Ubsdell
http://www.tokyo-uk.com


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Oliver Peters
Re: Avid DS
on Jun 10, 2013 at 1:34:46 am

[Greg Andonian] "That actually sounds pretty cool. I didn't know there was node-based stuff in it."

Here's an older story I did on a DS project with some screen schematics.

http://digitalfilms.wordpress.com/2010/09/16/avid-ds-shines-for-metric/

[Greg Andonian] "I haven't heard much of anything about DS, beyond an occasional mention with very few details about what it does."

They have a very loyal fan base who will argue that it is still better than Smoke in many ways. It has not received the "love" it deserves from Avid. OTOH, Avid tried to make it more like Media Composer, which never caught on with the MC editors and wasn't very popular with the DS users, either. However, it is now software unbundled from the hardware and Avid's only resolution-independent application. I have heard that the newest version breaks some of the older 3rd party plug-ins, though.

If you want to go down that route on the PC, I would also suggest looking at Media Composer/Symphony, plus the option to add EyeOn Fusion.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Joseph W. Bourke
Re: Avid DS
on Jun 10, 2013 at 3:15:12 pm

That seems to be the AVID way - buy the competition, and then slowly kill it off. That's what they did with the Pinnacle TypeDeko line. The broadcast facility I worked at went all the way back to the Dubner days - when the fist of the TypeDeko machines came out, they included the scripting language (I think it was called "K"), and all of the TypeDeko graphics could be converted to K language, thus enabling me to easily create an interface for CG creation (weather full screens, lower thirds, etc.), which could lock down the font sets, colors, and sizes, so that our station graphics were "monkey proof". CG operators loved to change the typefaces in our graphics package to fit their own taste - this made it harder to do. As time went on, software versions of Deko were developed, and there was a whole family of powerful, easy to use, solutions for broadcast.

At any rate, when AVID purchased Pinnacle, this great platform basically went 'poof'.

Joe Bourke
Owner/Creative Director
Bourke Media
http://www.bourkemedia.com


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