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Would Adobe please comment...

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Ron Pestes
Would Adobe please comment...
on May 31, 2013 at 6:58:34 pm

Would someone from Adobe please come on this forum and answer all our questions. Don't give us the normal BS but tell us why we can't have a choice and what we are supposed to do with old projects that don't open anymore. Enough of the gossip and guessing, step up and face the music with some REAL solutions to our questions.

ronpesteshdvideo.com
JVC GY-HM600
Dell M6600
Adobe CS6 Production Premium
MacBook Pro
Apple Certified Master Pro FCS 2




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David McGavran
Re: Would Adobe please comment...
on May 31, 2013 at 8:53:25 pm

Please search this forum for responses from myself, Todd Kopriva, Dennis Radeke, and Kevin Monahan. I think you will find that we are very willing to have open conversations.

Cheers

Dave

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
David McGavran, Adobe Systems Incorporated
Senior Engineering Manager Adobe Premiere Pro
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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Ron Pestes
Re: Would Adobe please comment...
on May 31, 2013 at 9:07:24 pm

I appreciate your response David but my questions still stand. Why can't we have a choice to buy and what are we supposed to do with old projects? I have heard numerous guesses from other users but not anything from Adobe itself on these two questions. I have looked but did not see anything.

ronpesteshdvideo.com
JVC GY-HM600
Dell M6600
Adobe CS6 Production Premium
MacBook Pro
Apple Certified Master Pro FCS 2




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Gary Huff
Re: Would Adobe please comment...
on May 31, 2013 at 9:02:36 pm

[Ron Pestes] "Don't give us the normal BS but tell us why we can't have a choice"

Adobe makes more money via subscription services, and also evens out the flow of capital into the company.

[Ron Pestes] "what we are supposed to do with old projects that don't open anymore."

Pay $70 (currently) to open them.


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Andrew Kimery
Re: Would Adobe please comment...
on May 31, 2013 at 10:04:09 pm

[Gary Huff] "Adobe makes more money via subscription services, and also evens out the flow of capital into the company."

It also frees them potential SOX accounting problems, allows the teams to roll out updates when they are ready (as opposed to an arbitrary date when all the apps must get updated at one time), and avoids the versioning headache of perpetual license users and CC users having incompatible versions of the same software since CC users would get access to upgrades that perpetual license users would not.

Todd from Adobe has also hinted that they are working on a solution for opening up project files if are no longer subscribing to CC. Maybe it will be some sort of read-only option where you can open the project file, make changes, do exports, etc., but you just won't be able to save the new work that you've done.

Honestly, after the major CC announcement at Adobe MAX, the negative reaction, and preparing for the big launch of CC apps in a couple of weeks I'm surprised people are surprised that Adobe hasn't made another major announcement. The'll take customer feedback, try and tweak things so people are less pissed, and present it when the new apps release on June 17th, IMO.




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Rainer Schubert
Re: Would Adobe please comment...
on Jun 1, 2013 at 11:27:01 am

They ever had the possibility to do upgrades on the functions of their Apps. They only couldn´t implement new functions.
We always handled updates here in that way: Installing it first on only ONE machine and see what happens for 1 to 3 month.
There were so many workflow-breaking facts in the past. Not supported PlugIns... . I even don´t want an automatic upgrade mechanism.
Upgrades don´t mean real, useful innovation sometimes and not for all (FinalCut / Vista / OS X / WIN8 /...).
Avoiding problems between CS and CC? As they tell us also, that CC files will be compatible with CS? I don´t think, that this argument justifies this move. In that case I would accept an export/convert solution as in the past.

The fact, that they "...are working on a solution" for open files after subscription is ridiculous. That should have been done before putting that Sh.t into our feeding bowls. Else if they don´t think about that before... I never would trust a company like that.
Not be able to change my work (and they will not offer something else, take every bet) is an absolute NoGo. I´m responsible for many ten thousands of client files. I have to guaranty my industrial clients a three year access by contract. That doesn´t mean: Having a look on them. I have to be able to open AND change AND save. I create 1,5 TB of client data a year as a single person (not multiplicated to employees). Nearly not one day, where I don´t have to open an file, that´s between one and three years old (and sometimes very much older). Ever heard the word: Archive? That means: I have to pay a min. of 3 years paying only to be able to use my own creations...!? Converting 4,5 TB into useless "only open" files after 3 years of subscription!? A Workaround, where I save every file into Adobe-Format AND useless "only-open"-Format?! I even wonder what all these cloudies do (after sub.), as all of my colleagues have similar problems and their concerns are also.

And I take every bet: They will not change this point. And for me that´s the main fact. I take care of my customers and I will never subscribe under this conditions. It´s three weeks after their horrible coming out. Absolute no reaction to all the concerns, suggestions, begs. Only praying their sugar glossy BS again and again. My point is made behind Adobe. Already investing time and money in alternative workflows and most of my business partners too.
I don´t think, they will take care of cutomers feedback (btw, as I read it - it´s not feedback it´s hate).

Possible, they will make a solution for the photoshop-community which is totally pissed of (and a big part of income. The concern there is unbelievable). A kind of PS very light and cheap as standalone. And that´s it. We still will hear the same pinky announcements and that´s it. They tell their stake-holders that they will rise income, also they lose many long-time users and us that everything will become cheaper!?

With me (and many many others) they lost an 22 years user. Always paid. Always upgradet. Many ten thousands of Euros till the last decades.
Never had trouble with Adobes prices. And I would even pay a multiple of the cloud fee, without losing file-access & freedom of choice.
I wouldn´t make any investments in workflows, plugins, etc. under this conditions. Never!
I also don´t want to be the door opener for the others to follow. I don´t like a world of Apple and (B) Gates - Deciding what´s good for me.
(BtW: They even have no time to make changes, as it seems, all of their employees spend their time with mollifying the protests and concerns...)


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Rainer Schubert
Re: Would Adobe please comment...
on Jun 1, 2013 at 11:42:36 am

As I have to open a file one to three years old nearly every day (ever heard the word: Archive?) that does not mean, pay $70 - Thats a min. of 3 (years) x 12 (month) x $70 (fee) = $ 2520 for only opening my own creations after subscription (and sometimes the files I have to use are very much older...).
Never!


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Suzann Fulbright
Re: Would Adobe please comment...
on Sep 16, 2013 at 5:03:44 pm

Pay $70 dollars for something you have already paid over and over again for a perpetual software license to open? I think there are serious intellectual property issues here, where Apple and Adobe are assuming ownership of OUR intellectual property. Our work belong to us. I suspect someone is going to get angry enough to sue. Time to look for alternative software.


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Rainer Schubert
Re: Would Adobe please comment...
on Jun 1, 2013 at 10:09:22 am

I don´t think, that Adobe will come to this forum, answering questions, terminating confusion.
If they would like to, there are so many blogs and forums around the world, that they would be busy till the rest of their lives.
And I also think, Adobe was in a clear knowledge of the fact, how harmful their decision was for the most of us, when they put their Sh.t into our feeding bowls.
They will not declare anything, and they will not change anything till the end of 2013.
For that one, who like to go on with Adobe, the only chance is: Let them feel an lose of income.
Inform as many people as possible about the evil behind the cloud. Tell the truth wherever you can (at all blog, friends...).
Don´t subscribe. Quit subscriptions.
They made lovely plans, how many Cloudies they will catch till the end of the year. They told their stack-holders how glorious this business model is.
They also told that there will be loses in 2013/14 in the period of change.
ONLY if their targets are not reached, and the stack-holders will see, that there is something wrong with that plans will even cause Adobe to move.
That´s the only way. They will not listen to words, suggestions or begs.
So don´t wait till the end of the "catching Cloudies" period will change to the "Yeah, we got them! Milking time" period.
AND: Adobe is the first real great monopolist, who tries to do implement such an incredible, binding business model - bringing their users in dependency.
If their plans will not been stopped, others will follow. Guarantied. Take every bet.
And in a near future, all of your Apps will have to be paid monthly. If you can´t pay or are not able to - you will be kicked out of the race.
May be, your PC only will start, if your bank account is in plus, one day in the future.
Our world is more and more divided in people with money, who can do everything and that without.

Drug dealers are punished when they bring people into dependency with their stuff, doing them a harm with that.
Adobe not.
Why?


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Kris Merkel
Re: Would Adobe please comment...
on Jun 1, 2013 at 4:38:58 pm

My understanding from this thread and many others is that adobe is responding to questions in a very forthcoming way, but some here are not listening to what they are saying because they do not like the answers.

I could be wrong, of course, but I don't thinks so.

"Think of everything in terms of building capacity."

Kris Merkel
twitter: @kris_merkel
Product Manager, Flanders Scientific Inc.
http://www.shopfsi.com
Co-Founder, Atlanta Cutters Post Production User Group
http://www.atlantacutters.com

2.2Ghz MBP core i7
16Gb RAM
CS6/FCP7
AJA T-Tap
AJA IO XT
FSI LM-2461W/CM-170W







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Ron Pestes
Re: Would Adobe please comment...
on Jun 1, 2013 at 5:13:50 pm

Kris, my two questions listed above are still not addressed. Why can't we have a choice and how are we supposed to open old projects? I am wanting an answer from Adobe, not a guess from the user base.

ronpesteshdvideo.com
JVC GY-HM600
Dell M6600
Adobe CS6 Production Premium
MacBook Pro
Apple Certified Master Pro FCS 2




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Kris Merkel
Re: Would Adobe please comment...
on Jun 1, 2013 at 6:20:44 pm

Those 2 questions have been answered by adobe many times over. If you go back and re read posts in this forum the answers from adobe are there. They just might not be the answer you were hoping to get, but yet they are answered .

"Think of everything in terms of building capacity."

Kris Merkel
twitter: @kris_merkel
Product Manager, Flanders Scientific Inc.
http://www.shopfsi.com
Co-Founder, Atlanta Cutters Post Production User Group
http://www.atlantacutters.com

2.2Ghz MBP core i7
16Gb RAM
CS6/FCP7
AJA T-Tap
AJA IO XT
FSI LM-2461W/CM-170W







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Tim Kolb
Re: Would Adobe please comment...
on Jun 2, 2013 at 5:47:48 pm

[Ron Pestes] "Why can't we have a choice and how are we supposed to open old projects? I am wanting an answer from Adobe, not a guess from the user base."

How are these questions unaddressed?

Adobe has decided to switch the entire portfolio over to subscription...whether or not you like the rationale they've presented is one thing, but the reason you can't have a buyout option is because they eliminated that option. It's kind of straightforward actually...

How are you supposed to open old projects? You have CS6...which you own...new subscription software doesn't retroactively zap the software you already bought...so how is Adobe depriving you of that capability?

TimK,
Director, Consultant
Kolb Productions,

Adobe Certified Instructor


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Jim Wiseman
Re: Would Adobe please comment...
on Jun 2, 2013 at 7:01:55 pm

Tim, please read my post in the NAB thread to see why CS6 is not a very long lived solution for Mac users. Potential CS6 obsolescence after about 14 months on new Macs beyond 10.9 due this summer. Adobe has promised only one major OS update for compatibility of CS6. OSX updates annually.

Jim Wiseman
Sony PMW-EX1,Pana AJ-D810 DVCPro, DVX-100, Nikon D7000, Final Cut Studio 2 and 3, Media 100 Suite 2.1.3, Premiere Pro 5.5 and 6.0, AJA ioHD, AJA Kona LHi, Avid MC, Hexacore MacPro 3.33 Ghz 24Gb RAM GTX-285 120GB SSD, Macbook Pro 17" 2011 2.2 Ghz Quadcore i7 8Gb SSD, G5 Quadcore PCIe


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Ron Pestes
Re: Would Adobe please comment...
on Jun 2, 2013 at 7:58:55 pm

I meant if I stop subscribing how do I open those projects. CS6 won't do it under the new rules.

ronpesteshdvideo.com
JVC GY-HM600
Dell M6600
Adobe CS6 Production Premium
MacBook Pro
Apple Certified Master Pro FCS 2




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Tim Kolb
Re: Would Adobe please comment...
on Jun 2, 2013 at 9:39:39 pm

OK...I see...

How do you guys open your FCP7 projects in perpetuity?

(I jumping to a conclusion that you guys left FCP...I don't know how far back Avid will open old projects)

TimK,
Director, Consultant
Kolb Productions,

Adobe Certified Instructor


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Jim Wiseman
Re: Would Adobe please comment...
on Jun 2, 2013 at 10:01:22 pm

For better or worse, FCP Legacy was EOL-ed. That move has been debated to death. CS6 Premiere, After Effects, Photoshop, etc. are in continuing development but only accessible via Creative Cloud. We just can't use them unless we submit to the rental (forever) model. More frustrating to me, actually. I can buy FCPX and use it for as long as I like with upgrades coming, 8 so far, free, perhaps a charge with a major release, on the AppStore. FCP7 projects can be moved to FCPX with 7toX, as well.

Jim Wiseman
Sony PMW-EX1,Pana AJ-D810 DVCPro, DVX-100, Nikon D7000, Final Cut Studio 2 and 3, Media 100 Suite 2.1.3, Premiere Pro 5.5 and 6.0, AJA ioHD, AJA Kona LHi, Avid MC, Hexacore MacPro 3.33 Ghz 24Gb RAM GTX-285 120GB SSD, Macbook Pro 17" 2011 2.2 Ghz Quadcore i7 8Gb SSD, G5 Quadcore PCIe


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Andrew Kimery
Re: Would Adobe please comment...
on Jun 2, 2013 at 11:11:18 pm

[Jim Wiseman] " CS6 Premiere, After Effects, Photoshop, etc. are in continuing development but only accessible via Creative Cloud. "

CS6 is available as a perpetual license but they are no longer in development in terms of getting new features. You can buy it now and use it forever as long as you have a machine that supports it. Which is true for everything computer related. I recently got rid of boxes of software (very old versions of FCP, Avid Express, games, MS Office, etc.,) that were useless to me because I didn't have a machine old enough to run said software. When people sold their Avid systems to switch to FCP how did they open their old projects? Answer is, they probably didn't. Maybe they exported EDLs before they got rid of their Avids and maybe those EDLs imported okay int FCP. For the most part though I'm sure the Avid projects just got mothballed and if they really had to go back to a project they probably rented an Avid for only as long as they needed it.

For those choosing to experiment with the first year discount of CC, if you decide it's not for you after a year just use the "Save as CS6" function that will be present in all the apps and continue using CS6.




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Jim Wiseman
Re: Would Adobe please comment...
on Jun 3, 2013 at 12:00:37 am

That doesn't solve the problem created after OS 10.9 is released going forward. That will be the last CS6/OSX supported, if you by a new computer, etc. as described below, could be out of luck by summer 2014. Hope to quell the comments of you always have CS6. Not if you want to keep your computer up to date.

My other point is, Adobe decided this, the user didn't. As I moved from Avid to other software it was my choice. And all of the Adobe software still exists. If they would update CS6 for new OSX releases, no problem. Of course they won't

Jim Wiseman
Sony PMW-EX1,Pana AJ-D810 DVCPro, DVX-100, Nikon D7000, Final Cut Studio 2 and 3, Media 100 Suite 2.1.3, Premiere Pro 5.5 and 6.0, AJA ioHD, AJA Kona LHi, Avid MC, Hexacore MacPro 3.33 Ghz 24Gb RAM GTX-285 120GB SSD, Macbook Pro 17" 2011 2.2 Ghz Quadcore i7 8Gb SSD, G5 Quadcore PCIe


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Andrew Kimery
Re: Would Adobe please comment...
on Jun 3, 2013 at 3:43:36 pm

[Jim Wiseman] "That doesn't solve the problem created after OS 10.9 is released going forward. That will be the last CS6/OSX supported, if you by a new computer, etc. as described below, could be out of luck by summer 2014. Hope to quell the comments of you always have CS6. Not if you want to keep your computer up to date."

How is that different from all EOL software though? If I want to keep running FCP 7 I'll have to keep a machine around w/specific hardware and a specific version of OSX that are compatible w/FCP 7. If I decided to stick w/Avid MC 5.5 I should keep a machine with 10.7 because that's the latest version of OSX that MC 5.5 supports.




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Gary Huff
Re: Would Adobe please comment...
on Jun 3, 2013 at 4:09:32 pm

[Andrew Kimery] " If I want to keep running FCP 7 I'll have to keep a machine around w/specific hardware and a specific version of OSX that are compatible w/FCP 7"

Except I'm running FCP 7 with Mountain Lion. That CS6/FCP7 won't run on OSX 10.9 isn't exactly a foregone conclusion.


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Jim Wiseman
Re: Would Adobe please comment...
on Jun 3, 2013 at 7:53:54 pm

We can hope CS6/FCP7 will run on 10.9, but it might be in Apple's interest to make life difficult, especially for Adobe. Then perhaps not. They want to sell more Macs, but they have an opportunity with the FCPX suite to take a chunk out of Adobe. I plan to get FCPX and Compressor, already have Motion 5. I know they will run on any new Mac I buy, as well as my MacPro and MacBook Pro.


http://www.adobe2014.tumblr.com
#adobe2014

Jim Wiseman
Sony PMW-EX1,Pana AJ-D810 DVCPro, DVX-100, Nikon D7000, Final Cut Studio 2 and 3, Media 100 Suite 2.1.3, Premiere Pro 5.5 and 6.0, AJA ioHD, AJA Kona LHi, Avid MC, Hexacore MacPro 3.33 Ghz 24Gb RAM GTX-285 120GB SSD, Macbook Pro 17" 2011 2.2 Ghz Quadcore i7 8Gb SSD, G5 Quadcore PCIe


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Andrew Kimery
Re: Would Adobe please comment...
on Jun 3, 2013 at 9:01:27 pm

Jim,

Do you update your OS every time a new one comes out? I ask because you seem very concerned about 10.9 coming up and I'm wondering why. Is it because Apple doesn't let users roll the OS back on new machines?

I haven't even used a Mac with OS 10.8 on it and you seem very concerned about 10.9. I feel so behind the times, lol. That fact didn't even dawn on me until now, that I've work at a number of places the past 18 months and every one of them was on 10.6.8 or 10.7.x.




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Rainer Schubert
Re: Would Adobe please comment...
on Jun 3, 2013 at 1:28:46 am

The Adobe Product Page in the EU & the US tell the following:

The following applications support the ability to export to the CS6 version of the application:
Photoshop
InDesign®
Illustrator
Flash® Professional
Dreamweaver®
Applications not listed here may not support exporting to Creative Suite 6, and may not do so in future releases.
New features added to the above list after Creative Suite 6 may not be supported in the exported file, or by the Creative Suite 6 application.CC = Lifelong dependency.

So NO word about and NO guaranty for AE and Premiere. I think there will be problems after June 17th.
And btw: For me it doesn´t matter if its a reduced price for a year. Would pay a double of the price without the failures and lacks & a serious buy-out.
I have to use the years (where I can use my CS6 MC) to switch over to new workflows. So that I can replace it completely one day without the risc my hold machines for that will quit running. I think of that in a timeline of 2-3 years, so there isn´t much time for experiments.
So it´s no alternative for me. And I also don´t want to go on with Adobe. They lost my trust completely.
Most for that how they did that. Would ever live in fear what comes up next.

CC = Terminates the word "Archive" in further digital future
CC = A NoGO for me and others.
----------------------------
CC = Cash Cow.

It´s not (in the main) a matter of price.


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