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An Alternate Package

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Sandeep Sajeev
An Alternate Package
on May 31, 2013 at 7:05:47 am

FCPX - 299 OR Media Composer 7 - 999
Cinema 4D Prime - 999 + MSA 250
Resolve Lite - Free OR Resolve - 999 (or just buy one of the cameras!)
Motion - 50
Compressor - 50
Photoshop - 699 if you don't have it already.

Adding up the higher values, that works out to 4046. At 50 bucks a month, that's the cost of 80 months or 6 and a half years of Creative Cloud. Which is more than the 5 year buyout period that's being kicked around on this forum.

But, if you have Photoshop already, as I'm sure most of us do, and Resolve Lite is good enough and you're happy in FCPX then your cost works out to 1648. That's 32 months or 2 and a half years of Creative Cloud.

If you're not doing 3D and Cineware is not something you'll ever use, then it's even less. It's not an exact like for like switch with CC's Production Premium tools, but it's close enough and I'd say, good enough for most workflows.

So while Adobe's move dash to the Cloud may have disenfranchised some of it's user base, there are alternatives (on the Mac side anyway) that cost less in some scenarios and come without all the 'ownership' angst. This helped clarify things for me, so it's posted in that spirit - I'm not sitting in judgement on the whole it's great/it sucks thing.

PS: The usual caveats apply to upgrading Prime and Media Composer, but the cool thing is that you can skip upgrades if you want to. So your costs can stay the same until you're ready to shell out for an upgrade for a feature you absolutely must have. Kind of like how things used to be in the not so distant past.

PPS: you don't get all of the other software that comes with the Creative Cloud. Personally, I really like Story, and have no use for anything else, but there's no denying the quality of the tools that are available. But if your primary role is as a content creator for films/commercials/docus/broadcast and digital, then you may not need all of the other stuff.

Sandeep.


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Shawn Miller
Re: An Alternate Package
on May 31, 2013 at 7:58:16 am

Don't forget the other video related pieces :)

Mocha AE -> Slice X $149
Audition -> Logic Pro $199
Illustrator -> Pixelmator $15(?)
AE Camera Tracker -> Syntheyes $399.00 (intro version)

Shawn



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Shawn Miller
Re: An Alternate Package
on May 31, 2013 at 8:00:54 am

[Sandeep Sajeev] "FCPX - 299 OR Media Composer 7 - 999
Cinema 4D Prime - 999 + MSA 250
Resolve Lite - Free OR Resolve - 999 (or just buy one of the cameras!)
Motion - 50
Compressor - 50
Photoshop - 699 if you don't have it already."


Don't forget some of the other popular pieces. :)

Mocha AE -> Slice X $149
Audition -> Logic Pro $199
Illustrator -> Pixelmator $15(?)
AE Camera Tracker -> Syntheyes $399.00 (intro version)

Shawn

Sorry for the double post!


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Sandeep Sajeev
Re: An Alternate Package
on May 31, 2013 at 9:27:31 am

Right, and I just remembered I use Neat Video a LOT. So that's another 99. I guess if you shell out for Resolve then you can skip this. I also use Magic Bullet Grinder (49) and Better Finder Rename (19.95) for DSLR projects - the new Prelude makes this unnecessary.

I wonder how much the new Logic will cost. Audition as you say, is included in CC.

The big cost I didn't add in to the above post that's relevant to my workflow is Smoke - at a little over 4k including subscription. I've been holding off actually purchasing it as it's been pretty buggy (I prefer to use it at Post houses that can offer on-site support, which I can't at my Studio).

So in terms of just pure VALUE - CC is great. Looks like Adobe's going to rule the world after all.


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Shawn Miller
Re: An Alternate Package
on May 31, 2013 at 6:07:47 pm

[Sandeep Sajeev] " I've been holding off actually purchasing it as it's been pretty buggy (I prefer to use it at Post houses that can offer on-site support, which I can't at my Studio)."

That's interesting, do you have a backup plan if Smoke doesn't turn out to be a good fit for your studio?

[Sandeep Sajeev] "So in terms of just pure VALUE - CC is great. Looks like Adobe's going to rule the world after all."

Yeah, I've always thought that Adobe's suite of tools is incredibly hard to match in terms of value. That's my main beef with Apple for discontinuing their suite (that and Shake). It means less competition for Adobe, and as much as I like their technology, I just don't think the industry is well served by having fewer players on the field (as it were).

Shawn



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Sandeep Sajeev
Re: An Alternate Package
on May 31, 2013 at 6:36:04 pm

[Shawn Miller] "do you have a backup plan if Smoke doesn't turn out to be a good fit for your studio?"

Well, I use Smoke at least three days a week so I know it works for me. The issue I had was that one day I had a major crash and Smoke would take about 15-20 minutes to start up and would then just sit and refuse to let me export or archive. And as someone who's not worked on Linux based boxes before, I had no idea as to how to fix things so I could carry on working. And there was a deadline for the next day, the client was waiting to tweak something...it was rough. This is the sort of thing that made me hold off on actually buying Smoke, even though I love it and am confident that AD will fix things, but as it stands if for whatever reason it bails on me, I'm stuck.

So I prefer to work at bigger Post Houses, ones that have Flames, as they have people around who can make things work again (quickly) if it locks up. When I eventually pick up a license, I'll bank more of what I bill, but at the moment it's not worth being on the hook for support as well as creative for me.

It seems like the latest Extension Release has fixed a lot of bugs, but for me it makes sense to wait until the 2014 release to hop on board the AD train. In the meantime, for stuff that I need to do in-house, I'm finding Motion to be...well awesome. I miss CFX on occasion, but I'm getting by.


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Shawn Miller
Re: An Alternate Package
on May 31, 2013 at 8:10:51 pm

[Sandeep Sajeev] "It seems like the latest Extension Release has fixed a lot of bugs, but for me it makes sense to wait until the 2014 release to hop on board the AD train. In the meantime, for stuff that I need to do in-house, I'm finding Motion to be...well awesome. I miss CFX on occasion, but I'm getting by."

That's good to know. Hopefully, stability won't be as much of an issue on the next major release.

Shawn



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Joseph W. Bourke
Re: An Alternate Package
on May 31, 2013 at 1:37:38 pm

That's great, but assuming you're a PC user, which is 93 percent of the market, you're screwed with Motion, which is the only currently viable replacement for AE (and it's really a pale second).

Joe Bourke
Owner/Creative Director
Bourke Media
http://www.bourkemedia.com


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Gary Huff
Re: An Alternate Package
on May 31, 2013 at 2:13:06 pm

[Joseph W. Bourke] "That's great, but assuming you're a PC user, which is 93 percent of the market, you're screwed with Motion, which is the only currently viable replacement for AE (and it's really a pale second)."

People have mentioned HitFilm, and it does look interesting, but I can't shake the feeling that it feels very "gimmicky"...for instance, the fact that it has built-in lightsaber effects.


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Joseph W. Bourke
Re: An Alternate Package
on May 31, 2013 at 4:02:58 pm

And with a name like "HitFilm", and a lightsaber effect, it's got even more going against it. Sounds sort of Amiga-esque. Does it have a Golfer and Stripper transition, by any chance? I'll check it out anyway - sometimes a gem is packaged like fertilizer - thanks.

Joe Bourke
Owner/Creative Director
Bourke Media
http://www.bourkemedia.com


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Joseph W. Bourke
Re: An Alternate Package
on May 31, 2013 at 4:28:42 pm

Gary -

I just plowed through the demos of all the features, and sent a list of questions to their sales department, including:

Compatability with AE plugin architecture (I'm invested in thousands of dollars worth of AE plugins - not about to throw those out)

Import of PSD and AI layered files, or at the very least, flat import.

Import of EDLs or XML files from Adobe.

I'm sure I could come up with more, but that was among the immediate "things missing in the features list" that I found.

Joe Bourke
Owner/Creative Director
Bourke Media
http://www.bourkemedia.com


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Gary Huff
Re: An Alternate Package
on May 31, 2013 at 4:30:45 pm

[Joseph W. Bourke] "I just plowed through the demos of all the features, and sent a list of questions to their sales department"

I'd be interested to hear what they say about those questions.


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Joseph W. Bourke
Re: An Alternate Package
on May 31, 2013 at 5:10:59 pm

No PSD import at this time - FAIL 1 - this is from their Community forum - people are asking for it - no Adobe still graphics import at all!

Joe Bourke
Owner/Creative Director
Bourke Media
http://www.bourkemedia.com


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Gary Huff
Re: An Alternate Package
on May 31, 2013 at 6:14:18 pm

[Joseph W. Bourke] "No PSD import at this time - FAIL 1 - this is from their Community forum - people are asking for it - no Adobe still graphics import at all"

Yeah, that's a deal-breaker for me as well.


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John Cuevas
Re: An Alternate Package
on May 31, 2013 at 6:16:08 pm

Keep us posted---been meaning to download the trial and dig into it a bit, but with only 24 hours in the day haven't got to it yet.

Johnny Cuevas, Editor
Thinkck.com

"I have not failed 700 times. I have succeeded in proving that those 700 ways will not work. When I have eliminated the ways that will not work, I will find the way that will work."
---THOMAS EDISON on inventing the light bulb.


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Joseph W. Bourke
Re: An Alternate Package
on May 31, 2013 at 11:31:45 pm

No replies yet, but I asked about the AE plugin architecture being available, ability to import EDLs from Premiere (or other NLE), as well as XMLs from AE. I'm also curious, because their list of import and export formats seems very limited - it may be that because they are positioning themselves as a "prosumer" package, they don't want to overwhelm the user with a complete codec/format list. I'm waiting for a reply from them (got an autoreply, but I think they're in the UK, so nobody's working at the moment), and I'll post it here. Some of the capabilities look pretty cool in the tutorials:

http://hitfilm.com/video-tutorials

Just watched the Particles tutorials - some pretty nice looking capabilities, not unlike Particular, but I didn't quite see the depth of features Particular has.

Joe Bourke
Owner/Creative Director
Bourke Media
http://www.bourkemedia.com


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Shawn Miller
Re: An Alternate Package
on May 31, 2013 at 7:43:43 pm

[Joseph W. Bourke] "I'm sure I could come up with more, but that was among the immediate "things missing in the features list" that I found."

A scripting engine, please. :-)

Shawn



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Shawn Miller
Re: An Alternate Package
on May 31, 2013 at 7:30:10 pm

[Joseph W. Bourke] "Sounds sort of Amiga-esque."

Hey, I loved my Amiga 1000! :-P

Shawn



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Shawn Miller
Re: An Alternate Package
on May 31, 2013 at 7:19:13 pm

[Gary Huff] "
People have mentioned HitFilm, and it does look interesting, but I can't shake the feeling that it feels very "gimmicky"...for instance, the fact that it has built-in lightsaber effects."


I agree. I've been watching FXHome since the AlamDV days. They've made a lot of progress, but I'm not sure if they're really after the AE market (artists who are more interested in flexibility than ease of use). I haven't seen anything really polished come out of Hitfilm yet, but I'm not sure if that's because of the software, or because the user base isn't mature. I keep meaning to give it a spin, but I just haven't had time.

Shawn



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Shawn Miller
Re: An Alternate Package
on May 31, 2013 at 7:03:11 pm

[Joseph W. Bourke] "That's great, but assuming you're a PC user, which is 93 percent of the market, you're screwed with Motion, which is the only currently viable replacement for AE (and it's really a pale second)."

For Motion graphics, yes. But if you had to replace AE for mograph, there is Boris for Edius, Avid or Vegas. I don't think it's ideal, but it can be done. If you need that blend of mograph and VFX capabilities though, I agree, there is nothing quite like AE. Now with the CineWare plugin, the AE/C4D combination is even harder to beat at that price point.

Shawn



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Steve Connor
Re: An Alternate Package
on May 31, 2013 at 7:12:49 pm

[Joseph W. Bourke] "which is 93 percent of the market, "

Not in Adobe's market!

Steve Connor

There's nothing we can't argue about on the FCPX COW Forum


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Herbert van der wegen
Re: An Alternate Package
on Jun 1, 2013 at 5:30:34 pm

I have been a loyal Photoshop user since v3. And last year September I found a worthy alternative for image editing: Photoline. It actually beats Photoshop's layer system by offering:
- as many layer masks as you like per layer (both bitmap and vector)
- layer masks can be grouped so one layer mask can be composited from multiple elements
- each layer can have its own image mode(!): Lab,RGB,CMYK,etc.
- adjustment layers can be applied and mixed and matched with layer masks!
- mostly non-destructive approach
- each layer can have its own resolution and dimensions
- multi page support
- "super" adjustment layer that groups all single adjustment layers
- full 48/96bit per channel support
- virtual instanced copies of any layer or layer group (update instantly when the original is edited, and can be based on layers in other pages!)
- multi-layered OpenEXR support out of the box (the only image editor to do so)
- real vector layers
- per layer anti-aliasing
- Lab curves can be applied at any time no matter what image mode you are working in (this was an eye-opener)
- photoshop brush library compatible

For image editing/compositing Photoline is just as good, if not better, as Photoshop. No video or 3d stuff included, though. The installation file is a mere 18mb, and can be installed as a portable app on your USB drive. Mac, PC, and Linux through Wine (the devs actively support Wine on Linux).

The only thing I miss in comparison to Photoshop is the quick mask editor. For the rest - nothing. I (mostly) work faster in Photoline than in Photoshop now - the workflow is more object-oriented, and you may need to adjust to that. It opens PSD files, with a number of adjustment layers intact - of course, it will not be a perfect conversion, but it's quite reasonable.

The website is horrible, though (http://www.pl32.com). Give it a chance though! The latest beta version is much improved over the current version, btw in terms of GUI: more flexible and visually more pleasing.

/*----------------------------------------------------*/
System: Win7 64bit - i7 920@3.6Ghz, p6t Deluxe v1, 48gb (6x8gb RipjawsX), ATI 7970 3gb, EVGA 590 3GB, Revodrive X2 240gb, e-mu 1820. Screens: 2 x Samsung s27a850ds 2560x1440, HP 1920x1200 in portrait mode


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