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Teaching CC - never mind the cost, think of the children!

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andy lewis
Teaching CC - never mind the cost, think of the children!
on May 26, 2013 at 6:33:02 pm

I've read a lot from educational institutions complaining that CC represents a price hike (though I realise this isn't the case for everyone). One aspect that I haven't seen discussed is the situation in which you are now placing students by training them on CC.

If you train your students on Adobe software you are effectively locking them into monthly payments before they know enough to make an informed decision. If they want to continue using the same software of course. This is something I would think very seriously about if I was teaching an editing course starting tomorrow.

Most students will not go on to become professional editors of course - in which case they aren't going to continue paying Adobe every month. This is a shame - just because editing (or graphics or whatever) doesn't immediately become your career doesn't mean you'll never use those skills again. Even students that do go professional - a non-negotiable monthly fee is not necessarily a great start to a freelance career.

I came into editing from an independent film background. I didn't get paid properly for a project for about oh... 8 years! I was learning and developing and having fun all that time.

One obvious answer to this is that "it's not about the software, you are teaching them skills which are transferable ." I partly agree with this but, if this is the case - would it not be better to teach them software that they can buy cheaply now and then potentially use for years to come without paying a penny? Regardless of which way the industry is going to jump, why start them with that monthly fee? Avid or FCPX look like much better bets in this respect.

I read a lot on these forums from people saying things like "What kind of editor can't afford 50 dollars a month? I earn that much in 10 minutes etc." This is a very privileged position to speak from and doesn't apply to most trainee editors in most of the world, particularly not those who are more interested in editing as art than as a profession. I worked for years on projects purely for the love of it. A bad month was one in which I wondered where the money for the next bag of pasta was going to come from. I once found 10 euros in the street and celebrated like I'd won the lottery. I bought 5 bags of pasta. Actually that's a lie, I spent it all on beer but you get my point.


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: Teaching CC - never mind the cost, think of the children!
on May 26, 2013 at 6:58:49 pm

lots of really sane points there, but adobe corporate do seem quite seriously hell bent on this?
they're going to assemble as much of a subscriber base as they can and that's the captive money source?

I can't dig it up again - but adobe have a three year investor revenue profit forecast out there, dead simple bar chart - at current CC pricing, they're taking a real hit. 2013 is a bit of a nose dive - but the profit forecast goes up every year through to 2016.

draw your own conclusions on that one - but if adobe corporate see an increasingly exclusionary, expensive subscription, for a reduced pool, as their future:
then, relative to education and the actual future industry - you would have to wonder exactly what kind of future adobe really have left.

this almost feels like them mentally checking out as a company and starting to lick the jar.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Craig Seeman
Re: Teaching CC - never mind the cost, think of the children!
on May 26, 2013 at 8:54:50 pm

Imagine the student filmmaker who, on graduation might have received CS or parts as a graduation present. Now, instead, they have the option to pile on another monthly payment on top of their student loan debt.

Imagine the unfunded documentary filmmaker toiling on their labor of love. Rather than scraping together the scratch to buy a program they can use without further upgrade costs, for a few years, they have a monthly payment... I think that bag of pasta is going to come first.

These kids are likely going to chose another NLE so they can stick with it during hard times.



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Rich Rubasch
Re: Teaching CC - never mind the cost, think of the children!
on May 26, 2013 at 9:17:11 pm

Exactly Craig, and you can hear the sales guy at the "other" software company talking down about the subscription model...."You don't need ANOTHER monthly payment, now do you?" Buy ours and you get to use the software as long as you want for one low price.

Buy theirs and you pay every month until you don't.....but you can't use the software anymore either.

Not a hard decision to make, really.

Rich Rubasch
Tilt Media Inc.
Video Production, Post, Studio Sound Stage
Founder/President/Editor/Designer/Animator
http://www.tiltmedia.com


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Jim Wiseman
Re: Teaching CC - never mind the cost, think of the children!
on May 26, 2013 at 9:31:55 pm

There are those of us working on those documentaries in the latter parts of our careers, as well. In my case, I am working on projects that pay, but are largely funded by grants that barely cover travel and other expenses. I can't justify the expense of CC rental for these projects and I want them to be editable in the future. They have historic importance. The five year buyout doesn't interest me either in my position. I agree that it could definitely throw a monkey wrench into Adobe's plans if they miss their six and twelve month projections. May put upper management on shaky enough ground to offer perpetual licensing again as an option. I am ready to hold out a lot longer than six to twelve months if they don't. But do you want to trust them for five years after this screw up? There are lots of options from where I stand. Wanted to move on to CS7, but CC rental, never. Adobe won't be holding my work hostage. Sounds like a lot of educators agree, especially on the cost aspect.

Jim Wiseman
Sony PMW-EX1,Pana AJ-D810 DVCPro, DVX-100, Nikon D7000, Final Cut Studio 2 and 3, Media 100 Suite 2.1.3, Premiere Pro 5.5 and 6.0, AJA ioHD, AJA Kona LHi, Avid MC, Hexacore MacPro 3.33 Ghz 24Gb RAM GTX-285 120GB SSD, Macbook Pro 17" 2011 2.2 Ghz Quadcore i7 8Gb SSD, G5 Quadcore PCIe


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Sandeep Sajeev
Re: Teaching CC - never mind the cost, think of the children!
on May 26, 2013 at 10:17:02 pm

Imagine the student filmmaker who, on graduation might have received CS or parts as a graduation present. Now, instead, they have the option to pile on another monthly payment on top of their student loan debt.

Imagine the unfunded documentary filmmaker toiling on their labor of love. Rather than scraping together the scratch to buy a program they can use without further upgrade costs, for a few years, they have a monthly payment... I think that bag of pasta is going to come first.


Aren't these scenarios exactly the ones that favour the current subscription model? When I left Uni in 2003, I had to shell out a 1000 dollars for fcp and a little over a 1000 for Photoshop and After Effects. I would have loved to have been able to get by paying 50 bucks a month, instead of a not insignificant lump sum right out of college.

I think if you're starting out small, and financial backing is an issue, being able to pay monthly is exactly what the doctor ordered.

Assuming of course, that you need the PS/AE/AI suite.

Sandeep.


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Craig Seeman
Re: Teaching CC - never mind the cost, think of the children!
on May 27, 2013 at 4:46:57 pm

Some students would receive programs as a graduation present. That's not likely now that CC is a perpetual bill that can never be paid off. For many, saving for a one time big purchase is easier than a forever payment. Heck even a credit card can be paid off over time.

Also some filmmakers may raise some upfront money for purchases. On going expenses, given the changing economy, can be treacherous.

The problem is the CC can work for some people. It absolutely does not for others though. The mistake I keep seeing in arguments like yours is that because one can say it works for some, it should work for all. It does not. In fact there's not even a "lease with an option to buy." It's a forever payment, a rate controlled only by Adobe and no way to exit and have usable software remaining.



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Walter Soyka
Re: Teaching CC - never mind the cost, think of the children!
on May 27, 2013 at 5:20:41 pm

[Craig Seeman] "The problem is the CC can work for some people. It absolutely does not for others though. The mistake I keep seeing in arguments like yours is that because one can say it works for some, it should work for all."

Unfortunately, this same faulty logic is often attempted by those opposed to CC as well.

(Not by you, Craig -- but we see it over and over here.)


[Craig Seeman] "Some students would receive programs as a graduation present. That's not likely now that CC is a perpetual bill that can never be paid off."

You can pre-pay a year at a time now, and Adobe is apparently considering longer pre-payment terms [link]. That might make a great gift for grads in the scenario described above.


[Craig Seeman] "For many, saving for a one time big purchase is easier than a forever payment. Heck even a credit card can be paid off over time."

It's a tradeoff. No upfront cost, but an ongoing cost.

I'd say CC is fantastic for people just starting out. We generally advise people like this to rent their cameras as they need them in order to keep more cash on hand. I think a lot of people here would jump at the chance to rent a $2700 camera for $50/mo instead of having to purchase it outright, but some seem to feel quite differently about software.


[Craig Seeman] "Also some filmmakers may raise some upfront money for purchases. On going expenses, given the changing economy, can be treacherous."

It's called budgeting. Filmmakers rent equipment all the time. They don't purchase labor upfront. CC could even save them cash if their project timelines are less than 3 years (Production Premium) or less than 4 years and 4 months (Master Collection).

People will have to make their own decisions about whether CC is right for them. None of these use cases are black and white.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Jim Wiseman
Re: Teaching CC - never mind the cost, think of the children!
on May 27, 2013 at 5:45:00 pm

Walter, the logic for all these renting or not renting scenarios falls apart because you are locked into CC FOREVER (excuse the caps). Would you consider it economic to rent a $2700 camera if you had to pay for it forever? Renting a $2700 camera for $50 a month if you can rent it for just one month and keep using the footage afterwards is great. But what if you had to keep renting the camera to keep using the footage? It quickly turns into a poor investment.

Longer prepayment terms are called credit cards. They are almost too easy to get for students and grads. When paid off, you own the software license, no more payments until you NEED to upgrade.

Regarding budgeting, when entering the marketplace it is very hard to create realistic budgets because one's cash flow is really an unknown. It is hard enough to predict for those who have been in business for many years, let alone a 22 year old. With perpetual license, you chose the moment of expenditure, not Adobe.

And on the final point, I would hope most people entering a career in production would wish to continue for more than three or four years. I've been doing it for decades. Hate to think what a locked rental model would have cost me over that period with limited ability to move to other software for critical uses.

Jim Wiseman
Sony PMW-EX1,Pana AJ-D810 DVCPro, DVX-100, Nikon D7000, Final Cut Studio 2 and 3, Media 100 Suite 2.1.3, Premiere Pro 5.5 and 6.0, AJA ioHD, AJA Kona LHi, Avid MC, Hexacore MacPro 3.33 Ghz 24Gb RAM GTX-285 120GB SSD, Macbook Pro 17" 2011 2.2 Ghz Quadcore i7 8Gb SSD, G5 Quadcore PCIe


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Walter Soyka
Re: Teaching CC - never mind the cost, think of the children!
on May 27, 2013 at 6:06:41 pm

[Jim Wiseman] "Walter, the logic for all these renting or not renting scenarios falls apart because you are locked into CC FOREVER (excuse the caps). Would you consider it economic to rent a $2700 camera if you had to pay for it forever? Renting a $2700 camera for $50 a month if you can rent it for just one month and keep using the footage afterwards is great. But what if you had to keep renting the camera to keep using the footage? It quickly turns into a poor investment."

A) I wouldn't rent the same camera forever. I'd be renting new cameras as they came out.

B) You don't need to rent the camera to use the footage. You do need to rent the camera to shoot new stuff (or maybe re-shoot old stuff to keep a post analogy). Big difference! (I understand that this won't fly for you -- and you have very good reasons for that. But while you may need the camera/CC to have access to their byproducts, you don't need the camera or CC to have access to their final output so the footage argument above is fallacious.)


[Jim Wiseman] "I've been doing it for decades. Hate to think what a locked rental model would have cost me over that period with limited ability to move to other software for critical uses."

Less than a purchase of a Flame!

Everyone's costs may be different according to their upgrade policies, but if you need to keep up to date to keep compatible as I do, your lifetime cost is "high" either way. And by "high" I actually mean "kinda low" considering the value Adobe products add to my business.

I'm not trying to sell you on CC. I'm just trying to explain that pay-as-you-go can make sense for some.

But broadening the point a little, as I've said numerous times, if CC is ultimately just a new way to pay for CS, it's a disappointment. I do think there's more to it than the payment model, and I hope future releases show more service benefits that make it worthwhile to subscribe to.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Craig Seeman
Re: Teaching CC - never mind the cost, think of the children!
on May 27, 2013 at 5:45:27 pm

[Walter Soyka] "I think a lot of people here would jump at the chance to rent a $2700 camera for $50/mo instead of having to purchase it outright, but some seem to feel quite differently about software."

A key difference is I wouldn't need to rent the camera to playback the master files. Usually the manufacturer offers a free utility or plugin.


While one may rent the camera short term, the camera master files are forever usable.

Also they do have the option to buy the camera instead. Adobe doesn't offer that option. If one used the camera rental model then I think may people would be quite happy. You can rent or buy as you see fit.


[Walter Soyka] "Filmmakers rent equipment all the time."

Most not in perpetuity though. With Adobe, in order to have access to project files you must rent... forever.

In fact I can rent a Sony F55 for one job and a Red Epic for another. I don't have to rent either in perpetuity to have access to my files.

BTW hardware rentals give you more options. You can rent for a day or a week as needed.
Often times if you need a camera for longer durations, you'd buy and then sell used some months later.

So you really can't accurately compare camera rentals to software rentals IMHO.



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Walter Soyka
Re: Teaching CC - never mind the cost, think of the children!
on May 27, 2013 at 6:14:20 pm

[Craig Seeman] "A key difference is I wouldn't need to rent the camera to playback the master files. Usually the manufacturer offers a free utility or plugin. While one may rent the camera short term, the camera master files are forever usable."

See above. This argument is fallacious. You can use the camera output forever, with or without the camera. You can use the rendered output from a CC app forever, with or without the application. In both cases, it's actually using the camera or the software that requires payment.

I guess part of this may be where you assign value: the process, or the end product.


[Craig Seeman] "BTW hardware rentals give you more options. You can rent for a day or a week as needed. Often times if you need a camera for longer durations, you'd buy and then sell used some months later. So you really can't accurately compare camera rentals to software rentals IMHO."

Maybe you can't compare it to Creative Cloud, since the offerings are relatively limited, but there's no reason we can't compare them in general.

I think the biggest difference is that people are used to different time scales for hardware (fixed shooting schedule, for example) versus software (open post-production schedule).


[Craig Seeman] "Also they do have the option to buy the camera instead. Adobe doesn't offer that option. If one used the camera rental model then I think may people would be quite happy. You can rent or buy as you see fit."

I'm not arguing this point. I'm just point out that there are benefits to paying as you go. Benefits that we extol for hardware, but that we decry for software because it feels different and it's not the way we're used to working -- and because some of the best possible benefits of the new model are not actually here yet.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Craig Seeman
Re: Teaching CC - never mind the cost, think of the children!
on May 27, 2013 at 6:53:45 pm

[Walter Soyka] "See above. This argument is fallacious. You can use the camera output forever, with or without the camera. You can use the rendered output from a CC app forever, with or without the application. In both cases, it's actually using the camera or the software that requires payment."

Not quite. If I shoot with an Sony EX and convert the files to ProRes or DNXHD I can use them forever. If I want access the the BPAV folder (the camera master) I need Sony software or plugin. Whether it's Sony ClipBrowser, Sony XDCAM Transfer, FCP plugin or, third party utility from Calibrated Software, etc., I need something to play back the contents of that folder. Sony offers me something. Adobe does not offer something to use the Project File even if it's just a utility that "translates" into something I can import into another program. Granted it's much harder to do with a Project File than a Camera Master File but, none the less, for me, that would be the equivalent.

[Walter Soyka] "I'm just point out that there are benefits to paying as you go."

There certainly are. I think it's a good option. The difference is with hardware you could rent, buy, buy and resell. take out a loan which could be paid off (and still have use of the hardware) and even, in some cases, lease with an option to buy. Some models may have even involved an annual maintenance contract (as Avid had done) but you could end the contract and still have your Avid Symphony. There's solution for every business model.

CC has only rent by year or rent by month. Termination and the project files can't be accessed. They've limited the options. It seems clear to me they want you on forever payments. That, to me, distinguishes it from all other market choices both hardware and software.



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David Lawrence
Re: Teaching CC - never mind the cost, think of the children!
on May 27, 2013 at 7:38:57 pm

[Craig Seeman] "CC has only rent by year or rent by month. Termination and the project files can't be accessed. They've limited the options. It seems clear to me they want you on forever payments. That, to me, distinguishes it from all other market choices both hardware and software."

Exactly right. As an option, CC is a big win for everyone. As the only choice going forward, I can't see how this possibly expands the future Adobe user base. This seems like a great way to do just the opposite.

_______________________
David Lawrence
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Craig Seeman
Re: Teaching CC - never mind the cost, think of the children!
on May 27, 2013 at 8:29:05 pm

[David Lawrence] "As the only choice going forward, I can't see how this possibly expands the future Adobe user base. This seems like a great way to do just the opposite."

It may well be a deliberate culling of the herd.

Although I'm being speculative and have little concrete information, I suspect Adobe estimated: the number of users who always upgrade (likely to move to CC), those who skip two or more upgrades (those who bring in the least revenue, those who skip an upgrade periodically but would move to the CC (this would be increase in revenue stream), those who can't afford to make a big upfront purchase but would be within reach as customers with a monthly or annual subscription model (this would be an increase in revenue stream as well) and saw a total increase in revenue despite some fall in occasional purchasers.

It's quite possible that they looked at the CS6 Cloud numbers both per app and for various Suites and the customer purchase and upgrade histories and extrapolated out to the rest of the user base to come to the aforementioned conclusion about CC being offered as the only option and revenue increase.



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Ricardo Marty
Re: Teaching CC - never mind the cost, think of the children!
on May 27, 2013 at 10:31:52 pm

Yes I agree. They are painting themselves against the wall. The are either greedy or having a dumb moment, maybe both.

Ricardi


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David Lawrence
Re: Teaching CC - never mind the cost, think of the children!
on May 27, 2013 at 6:30:59 pm

[Walter Soyka] "Unfortunately, this same faulty logic is often attempted by those opposed to CC as well.

(Not by you, Craig -- but we see it over and over here.)"


People opposed to CC are upset that they're being forced into a licensing scheme they don't want. I find their logic personal, rather than faulty, which maybe applies here as well. But I obviously have less sympathy for the pro-CC argument because they're arguing for something they already like.

[Walter Soyka] "You can pre-pay a year at a time now, and Adobe is apparently considering longer pre-payment terms [link]. That might make a great gift for grads in the scenario described above."

Huh? So here's a year's worth of software for you to learn, enjoy and make stuff with. Then when the year's up, it vanishes, along with access to all your work unless you start paying rent forever. Sounds like an awesome gift!

[Walter Soyka] "It's called budgeting. Filmmakers rent equipment all the time. They don't purchase labor upfront. CC could even save them cash if their project timelines are less than 3 years (Production Premium) or less than 4 years and 4 months (Master Collection)."

Filmmakers don't use cameras every day. They're usually budgeted into production and used on a very specific schedule. The only people I know who own cameras are DPs who shoot for a living. It's a false equivalency to say renting software is just like renting a camera. Adobe can spin this until they're blue in the face, but users just don't see or use software this way.

Adobe has made a dangerous mistake if they think they can force millions of users into a lifelong rental commitment. There's a reason Microsoft is saying a transition to a pure SaS business model will take at least a decade.

_______________________
David Lawrence
art~media~design~research
propaganda.com
publicmattersgroup.com
facebook.com/dlawrence
twitter.com/dhl


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Walter Soyka
Re: Teaching CC - never mind the cost, think of the children!
on May 28, 2013 at 3:34:24 am

[David Lawrence] "People opposed to CC are upset that they're being forced into a licensing scheme they don't want. I find their logic personal, rather than faulty, which maybe applies here as well. But I obviously have less sympathy for the pro-CC argument because they're arguing for something they already like."

I understand. What works for me may not work for you. What works for you may not work for me.

Craig said, "The mistake I keep seeing in arguments like yours is that because one can say it works for some, it should work for all. It does not." I merely wanted to point out this is true both ways.


[David Lawrence] "Huh? So here's a year's worth of software for you to learn, enjoy and make stuff with. Then when the year's up, it vanishes, along with access to all your work unless you start paying rent forever. Sounds like an awesome gift!"

It's the gift you keep on giving :)

You don't need to pay "forever" if you leave subscription. You only need to pay again when you want to use it again. This is a subtle but important distinction. You are free to start and stop as you see fit on a rental model.

I know that doesn't address your point about ultimate control of a project file at all. That remains a valid point.


[David Lawrence] "It's a false equivalency to say renting software is just like renting a camera."

Why is renting any one production tool any different from renting another, whether it's a light or a camera or a projector or an NLE license? You can use it as you like during your term, and when the term is over, you have whatever output from the tool that you saved, but not additional use of the tool itself.

Camera masters are not the same at all as project files. The scene the camera shot is the same as the project file.

Camera masters are the same as program masters: independent representations of the state of work as recorded or output.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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James Culbertson
Re: Teaching CC - never mind the cost, think of the children!
on May 28, 2013 at 3:46:18 am

[David Lawrence] "Adobe has made a dangerous mistake if they think they can force millions of users into a lifelong rental commitment. There's a reason Microsoft is saying a transition to a pure SaS business model will take at least a decade."

It's nice of Microsoft to give us all that long to transition to Open Office or other alternatives. Not that we really need the time in the case of office apps.

I just wish Adobe had done the same so that competitors could have had more time to develop full-fledged alternatives to Photoshop, After Effects, and Illustrator.


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Sandeep Sajeev
Re: Teaching CC - never mind the cost, think of the children!
on May 27, 2013 at 5:22:22 pm

[Craig Seeman] "The mistake I keep seeing in arguments like yours is that because one can say it works for some, it should work for all."

Where do I say it works for everyone? I know it doesn't. I'm not a fan of the Cloud and I don't plan on subscribing to it in the near future, but there are scenarios in which it does work, for example me, all those years ago.

It's not all great, but it's not all bad either.

Best,
Sandeep.


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Craig Seeman
Re: Teaching CC - never mind the cost, think of the children!
on May 27, 2013 at 5:50:07 pm

[Sandeep Sajeev] "but there are scenarios in which it does work,"

And as long as there are scenarios where it doesn't and the potential customer doesn't have an option (beyond moving to non Adobe software) they've penalized part of their base.


[Sandeep Sajeev] "It's not all great, but it's not all bad either."

It is all bad for some. Some don't want a "pay forever" model.



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David Lawrence
Re: Teaching CC - never mind the cost, think of the children!
on May 27, 2013 at 5:29:27 pm

[Craig Seeman] "The problem is the CC can work for some people. It absolutely does not for others though. The mistake I keep seeing in arguments like yours is that because one can say it works for some, it should work for all. It does not. In fact there's not even a "lease with an option to buy." It's a forever payment, a rate controlled only by Adobe and no way to exit and have usable software remaining."

Well said, Craig.

_______________________
David Lawrence
art~media~design~research
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Dave LaRonde
Re: Teaching CC - never mind the cost, think of the children!
on May 28, 2013 at 3:06:54 am

It's become more and more apparent to me that Adobe, when it chose the rental model, simultaneously chose to redefine its customer base. It defined who would be in, and more significantly for many, who would be OUT.

I doubt Autodesk gets a lot of traffic from hobbyists and students on its user forums. For obvious reasons: they can't afford the software and they probsbly can't afford the hardware, either. You don't see Autodesk crying that they don't have them.

Likewise, I doubt Adobe will the mourn the loss of the overwhelming majority of its educational customers.

Dave LaRonde
Former Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Sandeep Sajeev
Re: Teaching CC - never mind the cost, think of the children!
on May 28, 2013 at 3:10:37 am

[Dave LaRonde] "I doubt Autodesk gets a lot of traffic from hobbyists and students on its user forums. For obvious reasons: they can't afford the software and they probsbly can't afford the hardware, either. You don't see Autodesk crying that they don't have them."

Autodesk provides free three year Academic licenses for everything M&E related apart from Flame.


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Jim Wiseman
Re: Teaching CC - never mind the cost, think of the children!
on May 28, 2013 at 4:03:03 am

{Dave LaRonde] >Likewise, I doubt Adobe will the mourn the loss of the overwhelming majority of its educational customers.<

They might not miss the revenue from educational customers, but they will certainly miss the loyal trained user base that graduates from those institutions. They will miss the graduates if they are trained to use their competitors software because of the ineptness of this CC marketing fiasco. Those students will be making the decisions on many full licenses in the future, and will be deciding just what software applications become the new standard in post.

Jim Wiseman
Sony PMW-EX1,Pana AJ-D810 DVCPro, DVX-100, Nikon D7000, Final Cut Studio 2 and 3, Media 100 Suite 2.1.3, Premiere Pro 5.5 and 6.0, AJA ioHD, AJA Kona LHi, Avid MC, Hexacore MacPro 3.33 Ghz 24Gb RAM GTX-285 120GB SSD, Macbook Pro 17" 2011 2.2 Ghz Quadcore i7 8Gb SSD, G5 Quadcore PCIe


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Juan Salvo
Re: Teaching CC - never mind the cost, think of the children!
on May 28, 2013 at 2:44:37 pm

They can still buy CS6... it didn't stop working overnight. And Adobe is continuing to sell it. They've even said they'll continue to update and support it.

Colorist | Online Editor | Post Super | VFX Artist | BD Author

http://JuanSalvo.com


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Andy Edwards
Re: Teaching CC - never mind the cost, think of the children!
on May 28, 2013 at 6:49:48 pm

Juan, I'm on the cloud on a personal laptop and iMac at home, so I'm already using it. Once my 1st year subscription is up, my pricing will go up, so no more advantage of pre-ownership anymore. You pay full boat after the teaser year. You no longer get the benefit of having bought or I should say licensed the previous version.

Regarding "They've even said they'll continue to update and support it."
Will the updates to CS6 include all the new features they are showing in PPRO Next? The software update vs. software upgrade model is different in my eyes on how Adobe will treat this. I didn't see Adobe fix all the bugs in CS5.5, they just said upgrade to CS6 and you'll get the updated fixes. That is not updating or supporting a previous version in my view. Adobe is pushing you to the next version of software without actually fixing or improving the version you currently use.

It is going to be an interesting few months to see how this flushes out.

Andy


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Chris Jacek
Re: Teaching CC - never mind the cost, think of the children!
on May 28, 2013 at 6:52:37 pm

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned the obvious. They will likely steal the software. In general, students have not had much of an ethical problem with pirated software. But if a company appears blatantly greedy and unfair, there is a substantially greater incentive for the students and/or graduates to acquire their software by less-than-legal means.

I implemented a computer/software system at my school which allowed all the students to get their own laptop and legal licenses of the Production Premium software for a very good price. The result: every student was using the newest Adobe software legally, and Adobe was receiving money from every one of those students.

Adobe killed that particular licensing system, which was working so well for us. Now my only option will be to require them to get the Adobe software on their own (because the "Team" cost is actually higher, as someone recently pointed out). What percentage of my students do you think will legally buy Creative Cloud when they feel that Adobe is trying to "stick it to them?" Certainly not the 100% that we had under the old system. My guess is that it won't even be the roughly 35% needed for Adobe to maintain same amount of revenue they were getting under the old program.

Professor, Producer, Editor
and former Apple Employee


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