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Q: will the apps run in a browser?? Adobe: No silly. Mike Chambers: basically yes, and soon.

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Aindreas Gallagher
Q: will the apps run in a browser?? Adobe: No silly. Mike Chambers: basically yes, and soon.
on May 21, 2013 at 11:11:50 am

Quoting Mike Chambers, Senior Product Manager, Developer Relations at Adobe.


"over time more and more functionality in the desktop app will be based on, and or require access to services made available via Creative Cloud. Right now that includes things like sync settings, colors, fonts, etc… but eventually could include advanced image manipulating algorithms, or other image apis (in the case of photoshop). You would still use your desktop apps, but the core processing and work could happen in the cloud via open apis."

from: http://blogs.adobe.com/jnack/2013/05/apples-oranges-creative-cloud-my-thoug...

So, I guess you could say that, to the letter, Adobe weren't repeatedly lying in press releases about their goal of software as a service operated from their servers - to whit:

http://www.adobe.com/uk/products/creativecloud/faq.html
Do the Creative Cloud desktop applications run in the browser via streaming or a virtualization technology?
No. The desktop applications are downloaded from Creative Cloud but are installed and run locally on the desktop as before. They are not streamed or virtualized in the cloud.

Ok - freeze the tape there-
let's have Mike Chambers again:
You would still use your desktop apps, but the core processing and work could happen in the cloud via open apis

So, actually, if you were feeling sloppy, you could really quite happily say that adobe have repeatedly lied about their ultimate goals to run software as a service remotely. Unless everyone thinks Mike Chambers was daydreaming when he outlined that scenario. In detail. Specifying processing and API's.

It stinks, it stiiiiiinks, it stinnnnks to high heaavvvenn..
(last line to be sung like a gilbert and sullivan number.)

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Walter Soyka
Re: Q: will the apps run in a browser?? Adobe: No silly. Mike Chambers: basically yes, and soon.
on May 21, 2013 at 5:09:52 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "It stinks, it stiiiiiinks, it stinnnnks to high heaavvvenn.. (last line to be sung like a gilbert and sullivan number.)"

"I am the very model of a modern online renderer."

I maintain a little "render garden" here (it's too small to be a proper farm), and I'll say from experience that rendering services do have a certain appeal. I can see why you are concerned, but I think this could be a really good thing for a lot of users.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Charlie Austin
Re: Q: will the apps run in a browser?? Adobe: No silly. Mike Chambers: basically yes, and soon.
on May 21, 2013 at 7:17:35 pm

[Walter Soyka] "but I think this could be a really good thing for a lot of users."

A lot of this seems like a tempest in a teapot to me, and probably adobe too, in the long run. Although, I foresee an issue with all of these cloud services, from any vendor, when it comes to my tiny niche of the biz.

The problem is the major studios and/or MPAA security requirements. One of those requirements is that edit stations, or any computer storing or accessing confidential media (their movies) not be connected to the internet. At all. How's that gonna work? Now, you could argue that all feature media will one day be stored centrally at the studios and all editors will access it through the internet. Adobe Anywhere right?

Personally, I think it'll be a cold day in hell before any major allows their unreleased features to be streamed live to 1000 vendors worldwide. So... Avid or FCP X just won, for studio work anyway...

-------------------------------------------------------------


~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Walter Soyka
Re: Q: will the apps run in a browser?? Adobe: No silly. Mike Chambers: basically yes, and soon.
on May 21, 2013 at 7:29:15 pm

[Charlie Austin] "A lot of this seems like a tempest in a teapot to me, and probably adobe too, in the long run."

Agreed. There are some very valid CC criticisms here, but I also think there is a lot of echo chamber effect.


[Charlie Austin] "I foresee an issue with all of these cloud services, from any vendor, when it comes to my tiny niche of the biz. The problem is the major studios and/or MPAA security requirements. One of those requirements is that edit stations, or any computer storing or accessing confidential media (their movies) not be connected to the internet. At all. How's that gonna work?"

Probably better answered by an Adobe rep, but they do have some kind of program for enterprise users. Maybe that would apply here.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Charlie Austin
Re: Q: will the apps run in a browser?? Adobe: No silly. Mike Chambers: basically yes, and soon.
on May 21, 2013 at 7:45:20 pm

[Walter Soyka] "Agreed. There are some very valid CC criticisms here, but I also think there is a lot of echo chamber effect.

I agree there are some valid points, but it seems like overreaction to me. FWIW I have a cloud account. :-)


[Charlie Austin] "I foresee an issue with all of these cloud services, from any vendor, when it comes to my tiny niche of the biz. The problem is the major studios and/or MPAA security requirements. One of those requirements is that edit stations, or any computer storing or accessing confidential media (their movies) not be connected to the internet. At all. How's that gonna work?"

[Walter Soyka] Probably better answered by an Adobe rep, but they do have some kind of program for enterprise users. Maybe that would apply here."

True, and while I think there may be some future solution, right now, if you want to work on major studio material, CC is not an option (unless you want to ignore the requirements) if you need to be connected to the internet to use it.

I do internet stuff (like posting here) on a laptop at work... we need to disconnect edit stations from our media server before accessing the net to update software etc... Kind of a PITA, but it is what it is. :-/

-------------------------------------------------------------


~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Walter Soyka
Re: Q: will the apps run in a browser?? Adobe: No silly. Mike Chambers: basically yes, and soon.
on May 21, 2013 at 8:08:58 pm

[Charlie Austin] "True, and while I think there may be some future solution, right now, if you want to work on major studio material, CC is not an option (unless you want to ignore the requirements) if you need to be connected to the internet to use it. "

I'm not saying it could be a future solution -- I'm saying it could be a solution right now, but I'm not an enterprise customer and I don't know how it works. I thought there was some talk of accommodating locked-down enterprise customers like this, but I can't find specifics. If I were running a facility that did this kind of work, I'd call my rep to get the details for real.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Kevin Monahan
Re: Q: will the apps run in a browser?? Adobe: No silly. Mike Chambers: basically yes, and soon.
on May 21, 2013 at 8:53:36 pm

[Walter Soyka] "I thought there was some talk of accommodating locked-down enterprise customers like this, but I can't find specifics."

There is. You have to be an enterprise customer, however. For details, see the FAQ and scroll down toward the bottom for info on enterprise solutions: http://www.adobe.com/products/creativecloud/faq.html

Kevin Monahan
Social Support Lead
Adobe After Effects
Adobe Premiere Pro
Adobe Systems, Inc.
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Simon Ubsdell
Re: Q: will the apps run in a browser?? Adobe: No silly. Mike Chambers: basically yes, and soon.
on May 21, 2013 at 7:46:21 pm

[Charlie Austin] "The problem is the major studios and/or MPAA security requirements. One of those requirements is that edit stations, or any computer storing or accessing confidential media (their movies) not be connected to the internet. At all. How's that gonna work?"

Ha! I know of some vendors here in the UK who pretend they don't have internet access in their edit bays when the studios come round to check ... and then turn it back on straight after.

Not that you heard that from me.

Simon Ubsdell
http://www.tokyo-uk.com


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Charlie Austin
Re: Q: will the apps run in a browser?? Adobe: No silly. Mike Chambers: basically yes, and soon.
on May 21, 2013 at 7:52:10 pm

[Simon Ubsdell] "Ha! I know of some vendors here in the UK who pretend they don't have internet access in their edit bays when the studios come round to check ... and then turn it back on straight after.

Not that you heard that from me.
"


lol... Yeah, but what happens when studios get that using Pr *requires* internet access? They don't need to visit...

(phone call)
STUDIO SECURITY: Hello, what NLE do you use?
VENDOR: Adobe Premier. Why?
STUDIO SECURITY: Please return all our material. Goodbye.

:-)

-------------------------------------------------------------


~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Simon Ubsdell
Re: Q: will the apps run in a browser?? Adobe: No silly. Mike Chambers: basically yes, and soon.
on May 21, 2013 at 7:56:00 pm

[Charlie Austin] "lol... Yeah, but what happens when studios get that using Pr *requires* internet access? They don't need to visit..."

Very good point ;-)

Simon Ubsdell
http://www.tokyo-uk.com


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Juan Manuel
Re: Q: will the apps run in a browser?? Adobe: No silly. Mike Chambers: basically yes, and soon.
on May 21, 2013 at 8:02:23 pm

I think Adobe stated something about having a way for companies where the edit stations are required to be offline.
And an online rendering farm seems nice, but it's inherently unreliable. As an addition, it's good. As the only way, is incredibly risky.


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Walter Soyka
Re: Q: will the apps run in a browser?? Adobe: No silly. Mike Chambers: basically yes, and soon.
on May 21, 2013 at 8:04:46 pm

[Juan Manuel] "And an online rendering farm seems nice, but it's inherently unreliable. As an addition, it's good. As the only way, is incredibly risky."

Agreed.

I hope to see cloud features supplementing, not supplanting, local features.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Todd Kopriva
Re: Q: will the apps run in a browser?? Adobe: No silly. Mike Chambers: basically yes, and soon.
on May 21, 2013 at 11:20:02 pm

> I hope to see cloud features supplementing, not supplanting, local features.


That is what we are doing. If we can find ways to _optionally_ offload processing to connected computers---whether in your office, down the hall, or in the cloud---then it can be a great benefit to you.

Regarding the original post on this thread:
Mike was suggesting directions for future technologies, not what we intend to do to replace local functionality in desktop applications like Photoshop and After Effects.

I try not to take things personally but I do want to personally refute Aindreas calling my colleagues and me liars.

Please, folks, let's keep this civil. Kevin and I are here trying to help clarify things, and being insulted like this is not making that a pleasant job.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Todd Kopriva, Adobe Systems Incorporated
After Effects quality engineering
After Effects team blog
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: Q: will the apps run in a browser?? Adobe: No silly. Mike Chambers: basically yes, and soon.
on May 21, 2013 at 11:38:44 pm

no no - I didn't try to call you liars - stop personalising it to yourself - I called adobe as lying in relation to the oft repeated "Its not going to run in the browser silly" harbrained strawman adobe kept putting up to knock over.

In mike's comments and even more clearly below in further replies he doubles down on the statement that adobe software will be a cloud amalgam and that that process is going to acclerate. that is basically a direct contradiction with the "no no sillybilly no software in the browser" Thats why I said that to the letter, adobe couldn't have been said to have been lying about their own mid term goals, its not literally in the browser but it sounds pretty clearly like sofware as a service, with image manipulation algorithims residing on adobe servers. If they're there, they're not on the desktop Todd. They're in the cloudbrowserwidget.

But here's the thing - you guys come on, I mean, OK - you answer directly anything technical (on a debate forum), give info where you can, and repeatedly state that you cannot engage in any substantive dscussion on anything relating to the cloud, future plans, pricing, the loss of ownership, all that.

But I directly quote your colleague - and mind you I don't call him a liar todd, he's obviously being clear, but I draw a distinction between his possibly unguarded statements and adobe's boilerplate, and suddenly its all "this isn't on, you called mike a liar, we were only talking about processing (he wasn't), how dare you call me and Mike liars...

So to be clear: I didn't call you or mike liars, I called adobe corporate liars.

and

Kevin and I are here trying to help clarify things,

I'm not really sure on one level you are. It seems an awful lot like you're here to take flak and defend corporate policy. That's not clarifying.
Well, as a stance it is maybe.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Walter Soyka
Re: Q: will the apps run in a browser?? Adobe: No silly. Mike Chambers: basically yes, and soon.
on May 22, 2013 at 12:42:34 am

[Todd Kopriva] "If we can find ways to _optionally_ offload processing to connected computers---whether in your office, down the hall, or in the cloud---then it can be a great benefit to you. Regarding the original post on this thread: Mike was suggesting directions for future technologies, not what we intend to do to replace local functionality in desktop applications like Photoshop and After Effects. "

Good to hear! It may look a little murky now, but it's this sort of thinking that has me excited about what Creative Cloud can become.

We don't just live in a "computer on every desktop" world anymore. Computing has become so much more than those static devices -- now they're networked and mobile. I am excited to see a major developer acknowledge that new reality, and I'm excited to see what happens as new features about connecting people and resources make their way into Adobe's creative apps.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Juan Manuel
Re: Q: will the apps run in a browser?? Adobe: No silly. Mike Chambers: basically yes, and soon.
on May 22, 2013 at 12:50:54 pm

[Todd Kopriva] "Regarding the original post on this thread:
Mike was suggesting directions for future technologies, not what we intend to do to replace local functionality in desktop applications like Photoshop and After Effects."


And regarding other applications? There are things that inherently need an Internet connection to servers somewhere, such as Adobe Anywhere, Kuler or cloud storage, but your answer seems to be open to the idea that some minor application might have part of it's code (even if it's only the render engine) stored in Adobe servers. A model not unlike EA's new Sim City, which stores part of the game in EA' servers.
Now, that might work for a videogame. After all, if you can't play the game because your Internet is down or EA' servers are down or overwhelmed, well, though luck. It's just a game after all. But in a business environment where deadlines are a second nature of the job, IMHO all key applications need to be run locally.


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Todd Kopriva
Re: Q: will the apps run in a browser?? Adobe: No silly. Mike Chambers: basically yes, and soon.
on May 22, 2013 at 2:12:21 pm

> IMHO all key applications need to be run locally.


They do, and they will.

There may be some supplementary features (such as Sync Settings) that rely on a connection, but the desktop applications are still be designed to work in a disconnected state, with only occasional checks for activation.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Todd Kopriva, Adobe Systems Incorporated
After Effects quality engineering
After Effects team blog
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: Q: will the apps run in a browser?? Adobe: No silly. Mike Chambers: basically yes, and soon.
on May 22, 2013 at 5:38:12 pm

Hi Todd -

you'll kill me, but just to be clear here I thought I'd put down the specific detail of Mike's response: it sounds pretty unequivocally as if the goal is to move to software as a service. So:

"..could include advanced image manipulating algorithms, or other image apis (in the case of photoshop). You would still use your desktop apps, but the core processing and work could happen in the cloud via open apis." So you've read that bit.

then his last bit of response:
This is something that we think can completely change how people create, share and discover, and it is a vision that we are passionate about.

So, in summary, it is not just desktop software anymore.


OK - then Claudius dude replies:
Take away everything *but* the apps, and you still have something compelling.
So, i argue, Photoshop and all the other programs are *still* largely a product, not a service.


And then Mike says this in direct response - its the next line:
Yes, but over the coming months and years, that balance is going to continue to shift, and at a much quicker pace than it has thus far.


What Mike is talking about there, unequivocally, is the balance between the products being a product, as opposed to a service. that's software as a service, and mike is pretty directly saying that adobe are moving to that. Indeed accelerating to that.

Am I missing something here?

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Todd Kopriva
Re: Q: will the apps run in a browser?? Adobe: No silly. Mike Chambers: basically yes, and soon.
on May 22, 2013 at 6:27:23 pm

Mike is talking about extending Photoshop to _also_ be on the cloud, not crippling the desktop application by removing local components. Nothing is being taken away here; benefits are being added, and many of those are for connected computers.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Todd Kopriva, Adobe Systems Incorporated
After Effects quality engineering
After Effects team blog
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: Q: will the apps run in a browser?? Adobe: No silly. Mike Chambers: basically yes, and soon.
on May 22, 2013 at 8:48:22 pm

[Todd Kopriva] "Mike is talking about extending Photoshop to _also_ be on the cloud,"

Cool, but when you say that - you are potentially talking about application software components right?
I swear I'm not running around with my hair on fire, just trying to get it straight in my head.

there is rather an awful lot of leap of faith involved here as it were?

actually do you know (he said completely off the cuff) what would salve the old worries no end? the prospect of a loyalty software archive getting parked after a reasonable interval - say 4-5 years? Lots of people are mad for that. This situation feels very fluid, and its really hard to tell where its going sometimes, and you know, we're talking about the ability to create and modify, revise and revisit your own creative output...

man... knowing that half decade software archive pitstop was there for loyal subscribers, provided to them as is, with very few guarantees to future maintenance because adobe need to move forward and everyone gets that, but that feeling of having some tiny measure of control over what the hell is going on would feel deeply great. There, that didn't feel like a desperate pitch at all!

It doesn't sound completely madly unreasonable right?

Hey! I know - you can't comment on this stuff! :)

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Gary Huff
Re: Q: will the apps run in a browser?? Adobe: No silly. Mike Chambers: basically yes, and soon.
on May 22, 2013 at 2:15:38 pm

[Juan Manuel] "A model not unlike EA's new Sim City, which stores part of the game in EA' servers."

That's not true.


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David Lawrence
Re: Q: will the apps run in a browser?? Adobe: No silly. Mike Chambers: basically yes, and soon.
on May 22, 2013 at 12:49:17 am

[Walter Soyka] "I hope to see cloud features supplementing, not supplanting, local features."

Exactly.

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Pierre-Etienne Courtejoie
Re: Q: will the apps run in a browser?? Adobe: No silly. Mike Chambers: basically yes, and soon.
on May 28, 2013 at 1:25:46 pm

Hello, Aindreas.
What was shown during MAX was a way to use Adobe Servers to compute Shake Removal on a tablet. I think that offloaded computing makes more sense on portable devices than on our workstations, unless the bandwidth/computing power ratio would be way different.

I understand your concerns, but sometimes it is easy to read too much into an interview about future goals of the company.

Since everything is done on your machines (until Anywhere is here, I guess) the statement in the Creative Cloud FAQ is not a lie.

Hope this helps!

Pierre-Etienne Courtejoie
Adobe Community Professional


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: Q: will the apps run in a browser?? Adobe: No silly. Mike Chambers: basically yes, and soon.
on May 28, 2013 at 3:42:24 pm

hi,

actually, I was more speaking to mike chambers direct statement that adobe's midterm goal was to move to software as a service - where core computing components - actual software algorithms - exist solely on adobe servers. He was quite unequivocal about that - I've quoted the relative sections in replies to Todd above.

reading through mike's statements and replies you would feel that it flies directly in the face of adobe's repeated "no of course it won't run in a browser" line - a line that they repeated ad nauseum around the launch of CC.

best,

Aindreas

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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