FORUMS: list search recent posts

The Adobe Feedback Form - Better than venting here

COW Forums : Adobe Creative Cloud Debate

VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
walter biscardi
The Adobe Feedback Form - Better than venting here
on May 7, 2013 at 12:52:14 pm

Posting threads (numerous threads) on this forum won't make Adobe change anything. Makes you feel better, but won't influence Adobe's business decisions moving forward.

What DOES influence Adobe's decisions, as evidenced very clearly by Premiere Pro CC, is the Adobe Feedback Form. Use this to make your voices heard on everything including the Creative Cloud subscription model.

https://www.adobe.com/cfusion/mmform/index.cfm?name=wishform

The more people who hit this feedback form with advice on the Creative Cloud, the more Adobe takes that into consideration. They really do read this and they really do discuss when things get trending via the forms.

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Editor, Colorist, Director, Writer, Consultant, Author, Chef.
HD Post and Production
Biscardi Creative Media

Foul Water Fiery Serpent, an original documentary featuring Sigourney Weave...
MTWD Entertainment - Developing original content for all media.
"This American Land" - our new PBS Series.
"Science Nation" - Three years and counting of Science for the People.

Blog Twitter Facebook


Return to posts index

Peter Wiley
Re: The Adobe Feedback Form - Better than venting here
on May 7, 2013 at 12:56:56 pm

Very good idea.

If only "Creative Cloud" was on the drop down list of products to comment on.


Return to posts index

Walter Soyka
Re: The Adobe Feedback Form - Better than venting here
on May 7, 2013 at 1:38:12 pm

[Peter Wiley] "Very good idea. If only "Creative Cloud" was on the drop down list of products to comment on."

I am surprised they haven't updated the form yet.

Nonetheless, if you direct your comment to "Creative Suite" or your product of choice, I think it will get where it needs to go.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


Return to posts index


John Baumchen
Re: The Adobe Feedback Form - Better than venting here
on May 7, 2013 at 1:25:38 pm

I wnet to Adobe's site, but apparently the 'contact us' page only allows contact on what they want you to contact them about. But I did check out their corporate page and see that they have a VP from Comcast on their board, it explains a lot.


Return to posts index

walter biscardi
Re: The Adobe Feedback Form - Better than venting here
on May 7, 2013 at 1:39:51 pm

[John Baumchen] "I wnet to Adobe's site, but apparently the 'contact us' page only allows contact on what they want you to contact them about."

Well of course, have you visited ANY corporate "Contact Us" page? That's why I gave you the Feedback Form which actually gets back to the people who make the products and manage the Creative Cloud.

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Editor, Colorist, Director, Writer, Consultant, Author, Chef.
HD Post and Production
Biscardi Creative Media

Foul Water Fiery Serpent, an original documentary featuring Sigourney Weave...
MTWD Entertainment - Developing original content for all media.
"This American Land" - our new PBS Series.
"Science Nation" - Three years and counting of Science for the People.

Blog Twitter Facebook


Return to posts index

John Baumchen
Re: The Adobe Feedback Form - Better than venting here
on May 7, 2013 at 1:58:23 pm

I was curious as to their corporate make-up, hence my visit to the corporate who are we page. Personally, I don't care what Adobe does. It's their company, I'm just a pesky customer.


Return to posts index


Kevin Snyder
Re: The Adobe Feedback Form - Better than venting here
on May 7, 2013 at 5:12:03 pm

Just did it...thanks. Too bad there is a 2,000 character limit...couldn't get all my thoughts to fit...

Let me start off by saying that I fully understand how the Adobe Creative Cloud works. So, please don’t discount my thoughts by assuming that anyone disagreeing with Adobe’s new “upgrade” model must not fully understand the Creative Cloud. No FAQs are needed.
I see a lot of people comparing the new price structure to what it would cost to buy the Master Suite at $2,600 (Price at Adobe, man that was buried). Guess what? I’m not a new customer. I have been upgrading my software for years and I have been a loyal customer since Premiere 6.0. Yup, I pulled a lot of hair out back then. I have paid my dues to entering the suite. I don’t want to pay more so that others can step into the suite at a more affordable rate. Without the loyal customers from years past, there wouldn’t be a Creative Cloud.
I am fully aware of the cost options out there. I don’t use a single program, so that’s out. I don’t need or want all the programs in the Creative Cloud. I’m not a print or web person. I want only the applications that have been traditionally offered in the Production Suite. I’m not going to magically start doing web design because I have access to the programs. I don’t venture into web and print design because it’s a lack of interest, not a lack of accessibility. It’s like going to the grocery store to buy milk and eggs and being told that I have to fill the cart before I can check out…
At a price tag of $600 a year, the new cost is substantially higher than the historic price of $375.00. Yes, Adobe is offering a one year reduction for existing customers, but that is extremely short sited. I had planned on using Adobe software for years to come, but paying $50 a month for years to come does not sound appealing. Yes, there is the leasing a car analogy. Most people have the option to buy at the end of a leasing period.
I biggest issue that I have with the Creative Cloud is that once I create projects with the new versions of software, I will always need CC to open my projects. Adobe is banking on the very idea. Sure, I could stop renting the CC and then pay $50 to open my projects a later time, but does that really make sense. I have to pay to open a project that I already paid to create? That seems counterintuitive to me.
The big benefit of going to the cloud is more updates! Really? People are going to buy that? I guess if they are going to buy CC they will buy that as well. I documented a bug in PPRO back in July, 2012 (view it here) and it still has not been fixed. The lack of a fix isn’t related to perpetual licenses. If CS6 was cloud only the problem would be fixed by now? I doubt it. Bug fixes are just as easy to distribute for CC members as it is for perpetual license holders. Wait until people go to CC and pay a monthly fee to see bugs not getting fixed...great value.
If I were a carpenter, I wouldn’t rent a hammer. I may rent a piece of specialty equipment for a specific job, but I would buy the tools that I use every day. Adobe software is awesome no doubt. However, their programs fall in the everyday use category that I want to buy. I want to buy a new hammer when I feel that I need one. I don’t want to pay each month to swing the same hammer. Luckily, software is just a tool. Creativity doesn’t come from the cloud, it comes from people. I own CS6, and I will be able to express my ideas with the tools that I have for a long time.
What do I think Adobe should do? What would make me happy? One would be to keep both offerings. Perpetual licenses and CC. If the cloud is so great, let those that want to go that route have it. Don’t neglect the customers that have been loyal for years. Now, I understand that Adobe wants a steadier stream of revenue instead of the ebb and flow based around releases…so what about some tweaks to the CC model? I would like to see a grandfathered price for those that have been long time customers. Lock me in at $30 a month and I may change my tune. Or, what about an option to buy a perpetual license every few years that I am a member of the cloud? The option to buy a perpetual license on occasion would give me milestones that I knew that I could always fall back on.


Return to posts index

Tom Daigon
Re: The Adobe Feedback Form - Better than venting here
on May 7, 2013 at 5:21:51 pm

Kevin Im so glad you were able to fit all your 2000+ characters in this space. Very well presented!

Tom Daigon
PrP / After Effects Editor
HP Z820 Dual 2687
64GB ram
Dulce DQg2 16TB raid
http://www.hdshotsandcuts.com


Return to posts index

walter biscardi
Re: The Adobe Feedback Form - Better than venting here
on May 7, 2013 at 7:08:39 pm

[Kevin Snyder] "I don’t want to pay more so that others can step into the suite at a more affordable rate. Without the loyal customers from years past, there wouldn’t be a Creative Cloud."

There is the option to step away. I was a loyal customer with Apple for over 11 years. FCP 1.2.5 and they really didn't care, they had a new vision with X so I stepped away which did surprise a lot of my friends and colleagues. But it was a business decision and it was the right thing for me.


[Kevin Snyder] " Guess what? I’m not a new customer. I have been upgrading my software for years and I have been a loyal customer since Premiere 6.0."

First off all, hats off to you for making those early versions of PPro work in your business. They were definitely rough. Ok, how about Adobe does decide to bring back software purchases but ONLY at full price, no more upgrades. Are you still going to purchase? At that point, the Cloud is going to be the better deal, but if you REALLY want to own, you have to pay full, no more upgrades. The Cloud is considered the upgrades. Just curious because if I were in Adobe's position, that's what I would do. You have the option but it's more expensive to own and you probably won't get all the updates, you'll be limited in what you receive.


[Kevin Snyder] "At a price tag of $600 a year, the new cost is substantially higher than the historic price of $375.00. "

Yes it is, but that's offset by the amount of software available to you and the ability to have it run on two computers simultaneously. I know folks say "I'll never use this software" and I said the same thing about Illustrator for the longest time until we got a copy of it here. The fact that the extra software is available at any given time is worth it for folks like me, but again, not for every person out there.


[Kevin Snyder] "The big benefit of going to the cloud is more updates! Really? People are going to buy that?"

Yes, I do totally buy into this but at this time I cannot say any more about that.


[Kevin Snyder] "Luckily, software is just a tool. Creativity doesn’t come from the cloud, it comes from people."

Yes, 100%. Just like the pain I endured when Apple premiered X and I felt like they gave me a huge FU for all my years of loyalty and support, folks are going to have to look long and hard to see if the Cloud is that upsetting that they are willing to walk away and start new. Fortunately the landscape is really good for other tools and transferring your skill set from Adobe to something else is not that difficult.

The only thing I can suggest to folks seriously considering walking away is to give things some time and look at the other options out there before making your final choice. I knew right away when Apple showed X that we were leaving the platform, but I took a year to test and play with other apps before we jumped into Adobe in June of last year. With the 30 day free trials available from Avid and I believe Autodesk, those are GREAT ways to dive into other apps to see what they have to offer.

The best thing about switching off to something else if that if you did need something from Adobe, you could literally just jump back into the Cloud for one month and then let it lapse so you're not paying for something that's just sitting there. That's actually something I'm seriously considering for my facility because we have 6 workstations. Instead of paying yearly for all 6, just pay for the three that are always in use and let the other three just lapse and renew them as the rooms are needed.

Definitely take time to think before you act and of course this is only Day Two of the Cloud announcement. What the future brings, who knows.

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Editor, Colorist, Director, Writer, Consultant, Author, Chef.
HD Post and Production
Biscardi Creative Media

Foul Water Fiery Serpent, an original documentary featuring Sigourney Weave...
MTWD Entertainment - Developing original content for all media.
"This American Land" - our new PBS Series.
"Science Nation" - Three years and counting of Science for the People.

Blog Twitter Facebook


Return to posts index

Alex Hawkins
Re: The Adobe Feedback Form - Better than venting here
on May 8, 2013 at 12:34:01 am

[walter biscardi] "[Kevin Snyder] "The big benefit of going to the cloud is more updates! Really? People are going to buy that?"

Yes, I do totally buy into this but at this time I cannot say any more about that."


Mmmm this is a bit cryptic. . .

More goodies soon is it?

Alex Hawkins
Canberra, Australia


Return to posts index

Steve Brame
Re: The Adobe Feedback Form - Better than venting here
on May 8, 2013 at 1:39:03 am

There are two kinds of people on this forum - those who left Apple after the FCPX debacle, and those who watched them flood from Apple to Adobe, as well indicated by the posts here during that time.

The ex-FCP'ers had long touted Apple as a company that cared for them. Then they discovered differently. True, Adobe has been wonderful at listening to the incoming requests to instill FCP specific capabilities into Premiere, and has accomplished many in a relatively short amount of time. But, with the Apple fracas still fresh in everyone's mind, the former FCP'ers are probably wondering, "Oh no, not again!", and loyal Adobe customers are, if only in the back of their minds, wondering, "Is it happening to US now?"

Let's face it...the main function of Adobe, as was with Apple, is to generate profit. All else is secondary. This, as they say, is business. We all know how responsive the engineers at Adobe have been to our needs, but as was said, these are totally different people than those who make the profit margin decisions. Someone demonstrated that the CC approach would enhance revenue at lower costs, so that's the direction they will go.

I guess my point is that we can easily get caught up in the notion that a company should favor it's loyal customer base. They may, but only to a point. Always remember why a business is there.

Asus P6X58D Premium * Core i7 950 * 24GB RAM * nVidia Quadro 4000 * Windows 7 Premium 64bit * System Drive - WD Caviar Black 500GB * 2nd Drive(Pagefile, Previews) - WD Velociraptor 10K drive 600GB * Media Drive - 2TB RAID5 (4 - WD Caviar Black 500GB drive) * Matrox MX02 Mini * CS6.x Creative Cloud
-------------------------------------------
"98% of all computer issues can be solved by simply pressing 'F1'."
Steve Brame
creative illusions Productions


Return to posts index

walter biscardi
Re: The Adobe Feedback Form - Better than venting here
on May 8, 2013 at 3:10:03 am

[Steve Brame] "But, with the Apple fracas still fresh in everyone's mind, the former FCP'ers are probably wondering, "Oh no, not again!", and loyal Adobe customers are, if only in the back of their minds, wondering, "Is it happening to US now?""

Honestly, the ex-FCP'ers that I"m communicating with are already on the Cloud or ready to switch. We're more concerned that Adobe has very much improved the tools. Who cares how you actually get the tools. Adobe is simply knocking it out of the park with the tools.

So no sense at all of "oh no not again" from the pros I interface with. It's more like, Hell yeah gimme some CC! :)

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Editor, Colorist, Director, Writer, Consultant, Author, Chef.
HD Post and Production
Biscardi Creative Media

Foul Water Fiery Serpent, an original documentary featuring Sigourney Weave...
MTWD Entertainment - Developing original content for all media.
"This American Land" - our new PBS Series.
"Science Nation" - Three years and counting of Science for the People.

Blog Twitter Facebook


Return to posts index

Tim Kolb
Re: The Adobe Feedback Form - Better than venting here
on May 8, 2013 at 4:53:26 am

[walter biscardi] "So no sense at all of "oh no not again" from the pros I interface with. It's more like, Hell yeah gimme some CC! :)"

I didn't come from FCP...I've been here all along, and while I understand that this is a big change, I really don't fear any sort of an "FCPX" situation because professional content creators ARE Adobe's main market, and I've never had a Premiere Pro update that orphaned my projects from previous versions, which was perhaps the most astonishing aspect of the FCPX roll out.

TimK,
Director, Consultant
Kolb Productions,

Adobe Certified Instructor


Return to posts index

walter biscardi
Re: The Adobe Feedback Form - Better than venting here
on May 8, 2013 at 12:52:41 pm

[Tim Kolb] "I didn't come from FCP...I've been here all along, and while I understand that this is a big change, I really don't fear any sort of an "FCPX" situation"

Looking throughout the social media sphere it definitely appears the people who were "shocked" by the announcement yesterday are the ones who just didn't pay any attention to what Adobe was doing the past year. I'm sure Adobe didn't originally plan to go all Cloud this year and probably had 2014 in their original projections, but when 500,000 jump in so quickly with another 2,000,000 on deck, it's not rocket science to say, "well this is working so let's go all in."

It also seems pretty obvious that the majority of the negativity keeps coming from the same core group of people, so while I think there's a lot of noise out there right now and people can be justifiably angry, the noise seems to be in the minority. At first it seemed like a huge deal, but when you really look at the numbers, I think Adobe has hit a home run with everything.

By the way, you deserve some sort of medal or recognition for making those earlier version of Premiere Pro actually work. I have NO idea how you didn't just give up on the earlier versions of the product. Bravo!

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Editor, Colorist, Director, Writer, Consultant, Author, Chef.
HD Post and Production
Biscardi Creative Media

Foul Water Fiery Serpent, an original documentary featuring Sigourney Weave...
MTWD Entertainment - Developing original content for all media.
"This American Land" - our new PBS Series.
"Science Nation" - Three years and counting of Science for the People.

Blog Twitter Facebook


Return to posts index

Steve Brame
Re: The Adobe Feedback Form - Better than venting here
on May 8, 2013 at 2:14:04 pm

[walter biscardi] "So no sense at all of "oh no not again""

Plenty of it over on the After Effects forum. Some attempts at a direct comparisons actually. Not saying that it's valid, mind you. Just pointing it out.

Asus P6X58D Premium * Core i7 950 * 24GB RAM * nVidia Quadro 4000 * Windows 7 Premium 64bit * System Drive - WD Caviar Black 500GB * 2nd Drive(Pagefile, Previews) - WD Velociraptor 10K drive 600GB * Media Drive - 2TB RAID5 (4 - WD Caviar Black 500GB drive) * Matrox MX02 Mini * CS6.x Creative Cloud
-------------------------------------------
"98% of all computer issues can be solved by simply pressing 'F1'."
Steve Brame
creative illusions Productions


Return to posts index

Steve Brame
Re: The Adobe Feedback Form - Better than venting here
on May 8, 2013 at 2:32:54 pm

I certainly don't mean to give the impression that I am castigating Adobe for a move to increase profit, or at least revenue. Since the FCPX roll out, they have done a Herculean amount of work handling the exodus from FCP to CS. They received a massive amount of feature requests, and have done a yeoman's job of accommodating, whether by actually programming in new features, or developing workarounds until they could add the features. This costs money. Granted, they certainly had a grand boost in sales from the debacle, but as is being pointed out on these boards, such revenue is quasi finite. Many purchase and then don't upgrade for a couple of years, or even longer.

Apple discovered that this sales model is somewhat dead-ended, and looked for a way to boost sales and make them more consistent. Trouble is, Apple did so by totally doing away with a professional tool, and replacing it with a "toy" in order to attract sales from a much wider base. Adobe is doing it simply by changing the sales model. The tool remains the same.

Adobe is, first of all, subject to it's shareholders, then it's customers. They certainly have to juggle the balance between the two. The shareholders demanded more profits. Adobe could have gone the way of Apple, and scrapped CS altogether, replacing it with a souped up version of Elements. Instead, they found a way that keeps the important tool in our hands. I say their method is much more palatable.

Asus P6X58D Premium * Core i7 950 * 24GB RAM * nVidia Quadro 4000 * Windows 7 Premium 64bit * System Drive - WD Caviar Black 500GB * 2nd Drive(Pagefile, Previews) - WD Velociraptor 10K drive 600GB * Media Drive - 2TB RAID5 (4 - WD Caviar Black 500GB drive) * Matrox MX02 Mini * CS6.x Creative Cloud
-------------------------------------------
"98% of all computer issues can be solved by simply pressing 'F1'."
Steve Brame
creative illusions Productions


Return to posts index

Tim Kolb
Re: The Adobe Feedback Form - Better than venting here
on May 8, 2013 at 4:14:42 pm

Yes, FCPX will be the marketing dust-up that all future marketing dust-ups are measured by...

But...some of us still remember the angry villagers when the A-B edit timeline was dropped when Premiere went "Pro" (shiver).

TimK,
Director, Consultant
Kolb Productions,

Adobe Certified Instructor


Return to posts index

Gary Huff
Re: The Adobe Feedback Form - Better than venting here
on May 9, 2013 at 2:49:56 pm

[Tim Kolb] "But...some of us still remember the angry villagers when the A-B edit timeline was dropped when Premiere went "Pro" (shiver)."

Been so long I don't even remember exactly what changed from Premiere 6.5 (was it?) to Pro.


Return to posts index

VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
© 2017 CreativeCOW.net All Rights Reserved
[TOP]