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Opinion: How Adobe Creative Cloud left me amused, perplexed and infuriated - James Nolan

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Craig Seeman
Opinion: How Adobe Creative Cloud left me amused, perplexed and infuriated - James Nolan
on May 17, 2013 at 5:29:13 pm

There's some really fun quotes in this story.

"I would like to add as a footnote that everyone I spoke to at Adobe so far has been very polite and rather delightful. F*ck*ng incompetent, but delightful."

Opinion: How Adobe Creative Cloud left me amused, perplexed and infuriated - James Nolan
http://www.digitalartsonline.co.uk/news/creative-business/opinion-how-adobe...



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Kevin Monahan
Re: Opinion: How Adobe Creative Cloud left me amused, perplexed and infuriated - James Nolan
on May 17, 2013 at 5:32:42 pm

Hi Craig,
We are already working with this customer and have solved his issues.

Thanks,
Kevin

Kevin Monahan
Social Support Lead
Adobe After Effects
Adobe Premiere Pro
Adobe Systems, Inc.
Follow Me on Twitter!


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Todd Kopriva
Re: Opinion: How Adobe Creative Cloud left me amused, perplexed and infuriated - James Nolan
on May 17, 2013 at 5:39:40 pm

The author says this in a comment on the article that you linked to:

"Adobe contacted me immediately and have helped sort the original issues."

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Todd Kopriva, Adobe Systems Incorporated
After Effects quality engineering
After Effects team blog
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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Joseph W. Bourke
Re: Opinion: How Adobe Creative Cloud left me amused, perplexed and infuriated - James Nolan
on May 17, 2013 at 5:50:00 pm

I wonder why it is that the anti-Cloud contingent gleefully post the nastiest comments out there, without any regard to the context, or at least if the issue is resolved, post an honest reference to that fact? Just curious...I'm trying to sort this all out myself, and the "mad bashing trolls" (no reference to any one in particular) aren't doing anything for me except leaning me toward a Cloud subscription, with eyes wide open, of course. I just want facts...

Joe Bourke
Owner/Creative Director
Bourke Media
http://www.bourkemedia.com


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: Opinion: How Adobe Creative Cloud left me amused, perplexed and infuriated - James Nolan
on May 17, 2013 at 6:17:52 pm

come on. it was a link to a story, and it is well written. He's funny.

If you want to sign up dude, sure sign up - just maybe wait until january? We've got maybe six (is it five?) people on board so far, so we're like, you know, completely storming the castle here.
Seriously tho - six months isn't an eternity, and it might actually get some movement if the adoption rate is decently off projection?

me want five year loyalty buyout - the crazy thing is that a month ago, we owned the thing, now we're left begging for a chance to receive a pitstop software archive of our own once in a decade of lease payments. It's not a lot.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Joseph W. Bourke
Re: Opinion: How Adobe Creative Cloud left me amused, perplexed and infuriated - James Nolan
on May 17, 2013 at 6:54:33 pm

Aindreas -

You misunderstand me - I own the CS6 Master Collection discs, and I'm going absolutely nowhere with a Cloud subscription until I know what to expect. As far as I'm concerned, I own what I'm using right now, so unless there's a compelling reason to upgrade (I know PPro is the compelling reason - but I'm more on the motion graphics/animation side than the editor side), I've got at least six months in my pocket...

Joe Bourke
Owner/Creative Director
Bourke Media
http://www.bourkemedia.com


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: Opinion: How Adobe Creative Cloud left me amused, perplexed and infuriated - James Nolan
on May 17, 2013 at 7:39:14 pm

[Joseph W. Bourke] "I own the CS6 Master Collection discs, and I'm going absolutely nowhere with a Cloud subscription until I know what to expect."

Me too - well, I own Prod.Premium CS6 download at any rate. seriously tho, if the world could link hands like a coca-cola advert and not buy for six months...
then this week's appointed bogeyman, Shantanyu Narayen, might have to break off his dinner with Montgomery Burns in the Wolf hall to see what all the fuss is about.

the thing is - people are lazy as hell about upgrading anyway, if it could become broadly known that it was a really good idea to slow shuffle to january - adobe do seem to have set a reasonably aggressive target based on the uptake to this point. three quarters of a million sign ups in six months.

what you would really want here is a customer communication montage.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Ricardo Marty
Re: Opinion: How Adobe Creative Cloud left me amused, perplexed and infuriated - James Nolan
on May 18, 2013 at 1:54:13 am

Ill be part of the nogo cc even past the 6 month. Their must be a reason why adobe has not spoken a word after the official cc anouncement may 7.

Ricardo


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Gustavo Bermudas
Re: Opinion: How Adobe Creative Cloud left me amused, perplexed and infuriated - James Nolan
on May 17, 2013 at 6:29:43 pm

[Joseph W. Bourke] "I wonder why it is that the anti-Cloud contingent gleefully post the nastiest comments out there, without any regard to the context, or at least if the issue is resolved, post an honest reference to that fact? Just curious...I'm trying to sort this all out myself, and the "mad bashing trolls" (no reference to any one in particular) aren't doing anything for me except leaning me toward a Cloud subscription, with eyes wide open, of course. I just want facts..."

I don't think anyone could give you "facts" about why there's so much nasty comments, my personal take, people are feeling hurt, it's catharsis.

What I'd like to know is, what's the percentage rate of disapproval for CC, because for what I read here, in their Facebook page, and most important, with anybody I personally know that is an Adobe user, I could count the ones in favor of CC with one hand.


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Joseph W. Bourke
Re: Opinion: How Adobe Creative Cloud left me amused, perplexed and infuriated - James Nolan
on May 17, 2013 at 6:51:30 pm

I assume that's the one hand with 450,000 fingers on it?

Joe Bourke
Owner/Creative Director
Bourke Media
http://www.bourkemedia.com


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Jim Wiseman
Re: Opinion: How Adobe Creative Cloud left me amused, perplexed and infuriated - James Nolan
on May 17, 2013 at 7:50:58 pm

@ Joseph: No, it's the hand with 11,550,000 fingers on it. The other licenses. Also, please don't forget the 450,000 fingers just found out they were lopped off if they wanted to go back to perpetual license after their one year trial.

Jim Wiseman
Sony PMW-EX1,Pana AJ-D810 DVCPro, DVX-100, Nikon D7000, Final Cut Studio 2 and 3, Media 100 Suite 2.1.3, Premiere Pro 5.5 and 6.0, AJA ioHD, AJA Kona LHi, Avid MC, Hexacore MacPro 3.33 Ghz 24Gb RAM GTX-285 120GB SSD, Macbook Pro 17" 2011 2.2 Ghz Quadcore i7 8Gb SSD, G5 Quadcore PCIe


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Dave LaRonde
Re: Opinion: How Adobe Creative Cloud left me amused, perplexed and infuriated - James Nolan
on May 18, 2013 at 2:20:00 am

Hey, I found a guy who's going CC right here in Iowa! Whaddya know?

Of course, that's one out of the.... oh, about 20 Adobe users around town I've spoken to so far about this.

That's a 5 percent adoption rate if my division is right. it's also really bad statistical sampling, so this particular factoid isn't worth much.

Dave LaRonde
Former Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Andrew Kimery
Re: Opinion: How Adobe Creative Cloud left me amused, perplexed and infuriated - James Nolan
on May 17, 2013 at 6:57:04 pm

[Gustavo Bermudas] "What I'd like to know is, what's the percentage rate of disapproval for CC, because for what I read here, in their Facebook page, and most important, with anybody I personally know that is an Adobe user, I could count the ones in favor of CC with one hand."

What about the 480,000 users that have signed up for CC already? I doubt all of them are 100% satisfied with it but obviously they felt comfortable enough to pull the trigger.

Honestly, people who are upset will be more vocal than people that are not so you have to take internet outrage with perspective. It's like going to a hospital and extrapolating that since most of the people in the hospital are sick/injured then it must mean that most of the people outside the hospital are sick/injured too. Sure, there is some relationship but it's not 1:1.




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Gustavo Bermudas
Re: Opinion: How Adobe Creative Cloud left me amused, perplexed and infuriated - James Nolan
on May 17, 2013 at 7:53:53 pm

[Andrew Kimery] "What about the 480,000 users that have signed up for CC already? I doubt all of them are 100% satisfied with it but obviously they felt comfortable enough to pull the trigger."

Well, see, that doesn't indicate anything all because:

a. I'm one of those 480000 (or 450000) and I'm not happy with being subscription only.

b. When I signed up they didn't let me know they were taking perpetual licenses away.

c. Most of the current 450,000 are people pre CC subscription being the only option (that's what they said when they announced it)

d. I'm paying $29.99/month, was never planning in paying $49.99 after my year expires (07/13) I was planning to go back to perpetual (cheaper upgrade cost for that year)


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Ricardo Marty
Re: Opinion: How Adobe Creative Cloud left me amused, perplexed and infuriated - James Nolan
on May 17, 2013 at 9:00:42 pm

People who have been taken for a ride will mostly be quiet too.

Ricardo


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Kevin Monahan
Re: Opinion: How Adobe Creative Cloud left me amused, perplexed and infuriated - James Nolan
on May 17, 2013 at 8:25:01 pm

[Gustavo Bermudas] "What I'd like to know is, what's the percentage rate of disapproval for CC, because for what I read here, in their Facebook page, and most important, with anybody I personally know that is an Adobe user, I could count the ones in favor of CC with one hand."

Gustavo,
My feeling is that CC users are simply not commenting. People happy with services don't tend to do that, in my experience. Most of the Creative Cloud users I've talked to are extremely happy with the service. From what I've heard, the satisfaction rating of Creative Cloud is higher than even Photoshop, which was previously the top dog.

Best,
Kevin

Kevin Monahan
Social Support Lead
Adobe After Effects
Adobe Premiere Pro
Adobe Systems, Inc.
Follow Me on Twitter!


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Gustavo Bermudas
Re: Opinion: How Adobe Creative Cloud left me amused, perplexed and infuriated - James Nolan
on May 17, 2013 at 9:25:13 pm

[Kevin Monahan] "My feeling is that CC users are simply not commenting. People happy with services don't tend to do that, in my experience."

True, but also there are a lot of unhappy ones that they don't post online.

But for example, if you go to yelp and read the reviews of a restaurant, sure, you're going to see a few complaints here and there, but if you got the majority being complaints, something's going on.

OOT, talking about yelp and restaurants, if you want to have fun google Amy's Baking Company Gordon Ramsay on youtube, it's fantastic!


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Kevin Monahan
Re: Opinion: How Adobe Creative Cloud left me amused, perplexed and infuriated - James Nolan
on May 17, 2013 at 11:01:59 pm

[Gustavo Bermudas] "True, but also there are a lot of unhappy ones that they don't post online."

Gustavo,
A lot? Doubtful. As I said, Creative Cloud has a super high satisfaction rate. That's saying something, yes?

Best,
Kevin

Kevin Monahan
Social Support Lead
Adobe After Effects
Adobe Premiere Pro
Adobe Systems, Inc.
Follow Me on Twitter!


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Gustavo Bermudas
Re: Opinion: How Adobe Creative Cloud left me amused, perplexed and infuriated - James Nolan
on May 17, 2013 at 11:29:44 pm

[Kevin Monahan] "A lot? Doubtful. As I said, Creative Cloud has a super high satisfaction rate. That's saying something, yes? "

From my perception, yes, a lot. We talk about this among peers and none was in favor, and I haven't seen anyone posting here and/or Facebook.

Maybe the results of the CNET poll can shed some light on this.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-30685_3-57406922-264/stormy-reception-for-adobes-...

You keep saying that Creative Cloud has a high satisfaction rate, like it's printed in gold (sure you got those polls from before the announcement) and I'm sure it does, but what people are complaining about is:

1. Perpetual licenses are gone

2. Price

That doesn't mean the "PRODUCT" Creative Cloud is bad, is the business model that Adobe took on that is the problem and affecting Creative Professionals around the world. No one is complaining about Adobe products!


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Andrew Kimery
Re: Opinion: How Adobe Creative Cloud left me amused, perplexed and infuriated - James Nolan
on May 18, 2013 at 12:03:15 am

[Gustavo Bermudas] "Maybe the results of the CNET poll can shed some light on this.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-30685_3-57406922-264/stormy-reception-for-adobes-....."


I doubt the poll will shed any more light on it because it's not scientifically done. Unhappy people will be the most likely to take it just like they are the most likely to comment on Facebook, create threads on the COW and/or sign internet petitions.

If a company like Gallop actually polled users the same way they poll voters then we might end up with something truly telling. Unfortunately the CNET poll isn't like that.




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Gustavo Bermudas
Re: Opinion: How Adobe Creative Cloud left me amused, perplexed and infuriated - James Nolan
on May 18, 2013 at 3:22:54 am

[Andrew Kimery] "I doubt the poll will shed any more light on it because it's not scientifically done. Unhappy people will be the most likely to take it just like they are the most likely to comment on Facebook, create threads on the COW and/or sign internet petitions."

That was what I though at first too, but I was surprised when I saw a 27% approval rate, if I have to measure this website and Facebook, it's gotta be in the single digit, I was expecting way less, I wouldn't entirely disregard it as not being correct.


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Andrew Kimery
Re: Opinion: How Adobe Creative Cloud left me amused, perplexed and infuriated - James Nolan
on May 18, 2013 at 4:19:13 am

[Gustavo Bermudas] "That was what I though at first too, but I was surprised when I saw a 27% approval rate, if I have to measure this website and Facebook, it's gotta be in the single digit, I was expecting way less, I wouldn't entirely disregard it as not being correct."

The poll you linked to was from March though (I didn't realize that at first). The user base didn't explode until the May announcement.

Below is a link to an article about their current poll (with a link to the poll itself).

http://news.cnet.com/8301-1001_3-57584302-92/survey-is-adobe-creative-cloud...




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Tim Kolb
Re: Opinion: How Adobe Creative Cloud left me amused, perplexed and infuriated - James Nolan
on May 17, 2013 at 11:27:47 pm

[Gustavo Bermudas] "But for example, if you go to yelp and read the reviews of a restaurant, sure, you're going to see a few complaints here and there, but if you got the majority being complaints, something's going on."

Yelp is a little different to these various fora...and even on Yelp, I doubt that people who are happy are simply less compelled to immediately think about taking the time to fill out a survey.

...if current CC customers are largely silent...and most of the complaints, though numerous, are from people who are saying they never 'will' buy CC...I think that the idea that actual customers are largely satisfied with CC is not far-fetched.

TimK,
Director, Consultant
Kolb Productions,

Adobe Certified Instructor


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: Opinion: How Adobe Creative Cloud left me amused, perplexed and infuriated - James Nolan
on May 17, 2013 at 11:51:20 pm

I actually don't buy that.

So Adobe have, with 500,000 dipping their toes pre the end of actual licensing, when they didn't know that was the outcome, but so consider them out of a total pool that is, pick it, in the region of 6-10 million across all historical purchases. what exactly is that percentage? are they representative? Did adobe draw incorrect conclusions here?

you could argue that adobe are left with a very odd pool to have based this move on, out of a much larger pool, a much larger pool that is being directly, and continuously washed in FUD every single day, by anyone with a keyboard.

and to be fair, this isn't a push really. What adobe are actually facing is uproar. they have a customer base in uproar.

Is there anyone left who thinks that adobe is in a good place here? that june 17th is a balloon popping day?

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Chris Harlan
Re: Opinion: How Adobe Creative Cloud left me amused, perplexed and infuriated - James Nolan
on May 18, 2013 at 12:20:50 am

[Aindreas Gallagher] "Is there anyone left who thinks that adobe is in a good place here? that june 17th is a balloon popping day?
"


FWIW, I'm looking forward to it. I haven't decided that I believe CC-only is a bad idea. But, no, I don't think Adobe is in a good place. And, I certainly don't like everyone being so unhappy. I'm also realizing that part of my lack of unease is probably because I've committed to the notion of being on multiple platforms, and have gotten very comfortable on Avid, as well, which has made me think a lot about AFF, XML and moving between programs, so I'm not as concerned if I decide to walk away from CC at the end of a year. I'll still have CS6, and can easily get back into CC if I need to. I also don't do a super huge amount with AE or Photoshop, so CS6 will hold me for a good long time. I think I'd be much more upset if I were a Web designer, or if AE was my primary tool. At the end of the day, its probably because I could actually manage extremely well without CC, that I'm not getting bent on this whole thing.


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Ricardo Marty
Re: Opinion: How Adobe Creative Cloud left me amused, perplexed and infuriated - James Nolan
on May 18, 2013 at 12:52:14 am

Being happy with the service does not mean that they will stay. The service can be great and so can the
product but it might not suit them arfter the tryout, however long. Sheesh for 20 or 30 dollars i was tempted, but no I will not look in to medusas face..

Ricardo


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Morten Ranmar
Re: Opinion: How Adobe Creative Cloud left me amused, perplexed and infuriated - James Nolan
on May 19, 2013 at 10:35:10 am

Need clarification: Do you loose your perpetual license rights if you upgrade to CC?

- No Parking Production -

2 x Finalcut Studio3, 2 x Prod. bundle CS6, 2 x MacPro, 2 x ioHD, Ethernet File Server w. X-Raid.... and FCPX on trial


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Chris Harlan
Re: Opinion: How Adobe Creative Cloud left me amused, perplexed and infuriated - James Nolan
on May 19, 2013 at 9:02:39 pm

[Morten Ranmar] "Need clarification: Do you loose your perpetual license rights if you upgrade to CC?
"


The answer I've gotten from Dennis (a few weeks ago, over in FCPXorNOT) was that you emphatically DO retain your license. So, no, you don't lose it.


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Todd Kopriva
Re: Opinion: How Adobe Creative Cloud left me amused, perplexed and infuriated - James Nolan
on May 19, 2013 at 9:17:13 pm

> Need clarification: Do you loose your perpetual license rights if you upgrade to CC?


No.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Todd Kopriva, Adobe Systems Incorporated
After Effects quality engineering
After Effects team blog
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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Tim Kolb
Re: Opinion: How Adobe Creative Cloud left me amused, perplexed and infuriated - James Nolan
on May 17, 2013 at 8:55:01 pm

[Craig Seeman] ""I would like to add as a footnote that everyone I spoke to at Adobe so far has been very polite and rather delightful. F*ck*ng incompetent, but delightful.""

It was probably blogged from the hip when he was obviously in the middle of his issue...

However, I feel I must concur...

That is a very funny quote.

TimK,
Director, Consultant
Kolb Productions,

Adobe Certified Instructor


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marcus lyall
Re: Opinion: How Adobe Creative Cloud left me amused, perplexed and infuriated - James Nolan
on May 18, 2013 at 2:21:33 pm

Really hope that the whole CC for teams thing is going to be a lot better than our experience to date with CC.
Basically our studio decided to buy more CS6 licenses to avoid the issues of CC licensing not working properly. Too much time lost with machines being randomly unlicensed.

Dreading the thought of every company in the world using CC for teams having to deal with current Adobe phone support to solve the issues. If CC licensing is running off the same back-end as now, it will be challenging to say the least.

Adobe think you can take time out to solve their licensing issues.
Try doing that with a deadline.



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Craig Wall
Re: Opinion: How Adobe Creative Cloud left me amused, perplexed and infuriated - James Nolan
on May 21, 2013 at 5:07:12 am

I was once an authorized Adobe trainer and have used many Adobe products since their infancy. I was always the loyal Adobe apologist. Though I had Master Collection 5.5...I paid $29.99 for the cloud. I was willing to rent for a year, knowing I could fall back to my license and update it.

But this rental approach is unacceptable to me. It's been quite a jolt and I've gone through all the stages of grief. Now? I'm moving on. Here is my plan.

My killer suite will look like this:
-CS6 for current/legacy projects
-FCP...more modern approach, speed compared to Premiere
-Pixelmator (award-winning PSD replacement)
-Sketch (award-winning Illustrator replacement)
-Hype (instead of Edge/Flash)

As for publishing...if I need more than inDesign cs 6 at some point then:
-Quark xPress (this was one of my favorite programs 10 years ago. The latest rev has received awesome reviews.)

Re AE...I'm going to be keeping an eye out for Smoke, Motion, and the whole product family at the Foundry. It's also time I checked out Blender. As a c4d guy it would have been interesting to try Cineware but I'm going to ride with Element3d and the current AE6-c4d integration. Element3d gives me native c4d models in real time. What's not to like?

I'm a guy that buys a ton of software. But I guess that now leaves Adobe out since they won't let me buy their software anymore. But it's cool, the younger kids on the block are going to be ridiculously hungry and there will be tons of new apps coming out, as THE EXODUS begins.

Life is full of funny particles.


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