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It got so quiet here...

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Rainer Schubert
It got so quiet here...
on Mar 7, 2018 at 4:40:40 pm

It´s 2018, more than 5 years after Adobe cut the choice.
(And I still receive eMails that there are discounts - only for a short time - if I will subscribe to CC - LOL)
Just bought a new car, from what I spared by not subscribing.

Didn´t spend a Cent to Adobe since CC and I´m still happy.
I invested in new Software and I am still surprised a lot by all the features I got and get.
Especially Affinities Apps are great Alternatives to Adobes mature Giants.
And so extreme fast.

As often as I can see colleagues working with CC I´m wondering, what Adobe has done with all the money they got.
(OK, they bought a lot companies, like they ever did).
And I still know a lot who are still on the good old, fair CS
I can´t see ONE Killer-Feature, I want to have. Nor can I see big innovations since they cut the choice.
All the gimmicks they made for Mobiles - I don´t need them.
OK, to be fair - Video Editing isn´t my main job (and it´s getting more and more beside the point.).
Think, here are some improvements, espec. stability and speed.
But PS, AI, InD & the Rest?

Adobes Stock rised 400 % + since they took the choice and called their software cloud.
Their Net. Income nearby doubled.
And all that with less customers.
And there are some, who will tell me, it was a big deal for the Users???
(why Adobe don´t spend all the earnings to make your fees cheaper? Or invest in R&D? LOL)

Who wonders, that the new Operating Systems will not support CS? Did Adobe pay for that?
I wouldn´t be surprised.

As long as it´s possible I will not rent my tools.
And I think it would be great, if there are lots of users with the same opinion.
Perpetual Licenses are great.


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Matthew Ross
Re: It got so quiet here...
on Mar 7, 2018 at 5:13:25 pm

I use CC both at home and at work, but I have been considering abandoning CC at home. I do use it at home, just not a lot, and so I'm not sure I can justify the cost considering it's hobby level right now.

One thing that keeps me from jumping ship is I haven't found a good alternative for the workflow that I like to use with enough frequency to miss—editing in Premiere with effects done in After Effects, but specifically with 3D camera tracking and additional tracking done in Mocha for AE. There are other program combinations that will do that stuff, but not cost-effectively from what I've seen so far. I think Blender may come the closest for the 3D and tracking stuff from what I have heard, but the last time I poked my head in there I was scared off by the interface.

Another thing that keeps me from looking elsewhere is it's nice to use the same programs for my hobby stuff as I do at my day job. Not a deal breaker, but nice.

I would be interested in what others are using for 3D camera tracking, simple 3D work (like you can do in the AE implementation of C4D) and the kind of tracking you can do in Mocha for AE without using CC and for what they consider cost-effective.


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Mark Suszko
Re: It got so quiet here...
on Mar 7, 2018 at 9:40:03 pm

Motion.


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Matthew Ross
Re: It got so quiet here...
on Mar 8, 2018 at 3:01:03 am

Ah, shoot, I didn't specify—I'm PC based.



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David Mathis
Re: It got so quiet here...
on Mar 12, 2018 at 4:20:17 pm

Just got an e-mail saying my subscription rate will increase next year by a dollar. The increase will be effective in the Middle of April but because I have signed uo for one year with monthly payments my subscription payment will not increase until it is renewal time.

Anyone who does month to month might be feeling the effects next month. My goal was to learn Premiere Pro on a hobby level but was planning to do a year one subscription even before the price increase was announced. Looks like the price will increase around NAB time. Will this increase the activity level in this forum?


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Jason Watson
Re: It got so quiet here...
on Mar 17, 2018 at 12:20:20 pm
Last Edited By Jason Watson on Mar 17, 2018 at 12:28:55 pm

[Rainer Schubert] "Adobes Stock rised 400 % + since they took the choice and called their software cloud.
Their Net. Income nearby doubled.
And all that with less customers. "


Why do you assume they have fewer customers?

[Rainer Schubert] "Who wonders, that the new Operating Systems will not support CS? Did Adobe pay for that?
I wouldn´t be surprised. "


CS6 was EOL'd back in 2015; it's hardly surprising that OS developers are not going out of their way to ensure support for a product that has been mothballed for 3 years.


[Rainer Schubert] "I can´t see ONE Killer-Feature, I want to have. Nor can I see big innovations since they cut the choice. "

Personally, I've always been far less concerned about "killer-features" and more with the overall functionality on a day-to-day basis. That being said, a few things in CC that have impacted my workflow in a positive way:

Typekit Integration: Really useful for getting access to great fonts and ensuring compatibility with clients

Libraries: I use Ae, Pr, Ps, Ai and In pretty heavily and it's great to be able to share colors, assets, etc. I still think its integration needs a lot of work, but I've been pretty happy with how it works so far.

Artboards in Photoshop: I tend to have to make lots of iterations, so this has been a really great add.

Brush enhancements in Ps: The addition of great brush smoothing tools, brush organization tools and Kyle T. Webster's library of brushes has been a really amazing recent addition for me since I do a lot of brush work in Ps.

Ae's UI on the GPU: Probably one of the best improvements they made that makes working inside of Ae so much less frustrating and time-consuming.

Shape points to Nulls in Ae: Connects the control points of shapes to Nulls to make them easier to control. This has been great for me since I work with shape layers a lot inside of Ae.

Lumteri Color in Pr: Adds great color correction tools directly into Pr and obviates the need (at least for me) to send it off to another app or use third party tools like Colorista

Remix in Audition: Automatically remixes tracks to a specified length. Works really well and has saved me a lot of time over the years it's been included.

Anyway, someone else's mileage may vary, but those are just a few of the updates that have impacted my workflow pretty significantly. But it's fair- if there's nothing in CC that you want or need or would use, then I'm glad you are able to find other tools to meet your needs.


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Ronald Lindeboom
Re: It got so quiet here...
on Mar 23, 2018 at 12:57:51 pm

Thank you, Jason. I was just about to reply but when I scrolled down and saw your post, you saved me the time and trouble. It is appreciated.

Like you, I use so many of the tools in CC, and remember buying Master Collection boxed sets before CC (ouch!), that I find Adobe's move to CC both a time and money saver.

Best regards,

Ronald Lindeboom
CEO, Creative COW LLC

Creativity is a process wherein the student and the teacher are located in the same individual.


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Jason Watson
Re: It got so quiet here...
on Mar 23, 2018 at 5:19:18 pm

I had the same experience. Ultimately, I think CC was the best value for those who were Master Collection users.

Although it was kind of fun to get the box in the mail... but still, I don't at all miss the installation process nor the upgrade price. :-)


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Joseph W. Bourke
Re: It got so quiet here...
on Mar 29, 2018 at 6:11:47 pm

My feeling about the CC subscription (and even the Master Collection, which I own) is akin to my going to a buffet. I know that the price is fair, and I have no intention of eating everything which is in front of me. I eat the things I prefer, and walk away satisfied.

Joe Bourke
Owner/Creative Director
Bourke Media
http://www.bourkemedia.com


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mark cookman
Re: It got so quiet here...
on Apr 18, 2018 at 7:19:03 pm

Hey Ron! I'm a very rare visitor here these days, great to see you still have a hand on the tiller.


For the record we are totally boycotting CC and have been chugging along merrily with 3 seats of CS (and FCP7 until quite recently) .
Using BM Fusion can be VERY heavy going , probably because we cut our teeth with Cosa and after 20 years, its more like a basic instinct than a video tool but after a couple of years im getting a little more comfortable with it.

Roll on Black Magic Design!


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Ricardo Marty
Re: It got so quiet here...
on Apr 19, 2018 at 4:10:52 pm

Just wait till adobe starts hurting because of Resolve. After they condense the cloud they will make a magnetic timeline tab in resolve. Resolve 15 now has what I need, caption, lut browser Sorta like lumertri and multi timeline tabs. I'm still too dumb for fusion but someday ill figure it out

Ricardo Marty


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Gary Huff
Re: It got so quiet here...
on Apr 22, 2018 at 10:51:44 pm

[Ricardo Marty] "Just wait till adobe starts hurting because of Resolve."

And 2018 is the year of Linux on the desktop!


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David Mathis
Re: It got so quiet here...
on May 4, 2018 at 2:05:03 am

Blackmagic is very unlikely to make a magnetic timeline. I attended a demo today of Resolve 15 and someone asked about that timeline at the end of the presentation. Blackmagic does not have any plans to add a magnetic timeline. That was the answer they gave. With the software still in beta (for the current version) I don't see any reason for Adobe to be worried. There are many people sitting on the fence or just not sold on the idea just yet. That could change later this year when version 15 is out of beta but in all honesty a mass exit from CC to Resolve Studio is not that likeky. Of course is anything is possible. The world is a crazy place.


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Tim Wilson
Re: It got so quiet here...
on May 8, 2018 at 1:38:23 am

[David Mathis] "n all honesty a mass exit from CC to Resolve Studio is not that likeky. Of course is anything is possible. The world is a crazy place."

Yeah, but it's actually not THAT crazy. There are certainly people here who've got a woody for Adobe to fail, and I think it's driving them crazy that it's not happening. Frankly, you're supposed to call a doctor after 4 hours of still being this engorged, much less Blackmagic bought Resolve BEFORE Adobe went subscription-only. It's been free on Mac since 2011, back when a box of Creative Cloud software was running $2500.

The other reason it's impossible for Resolve to disrupt Creative Cloud in any meaningful way is that it's taking the exact opposite approach. Resolve is packing as many features as possible into one application, and Adobe is spreading them around. You probably have a preference, so go whichever way pleases you most, but neither Blackmagic nor Adobe is going to change the course they're on.

In practice, though, the price is so utterly trivial -- as little as FREE -- that there's no reason for anybody to pick just one.

re: price, talking about Creative Cloud as "expensive" at $50 or $60 a month is nonsense for a business.

As an individual, obviously not. But most of us here are in business.

A real business (or school, or whatever) is paying taxes as a business, which means that they're DEDUCTING THE COST FROM THEIR TAXES. Do you not get this? That's what drove this in the first place -- Adobe's CUSTOMERS telling Adobe, "We don't want to depreciate these huge out of pocket expenses over a period of 5-7 years, including the $1000 upgrades every couple of years, arriving on a schedule we can't plan for. Give us a price every month, that we can predict, and that we can deduct as a business expense every tax cycle."

And to the great consternation of some of our dearly departed and a few ghosts who remain to past through here making spooky noises now and again 👻👻👻 Adobe's customers responded by accelerating their adoption of Adobe's products.

You know that I hold people who look too closely at stock prices in generally low regard. My question is always whether they're hustlers or dupes, because few people of good conscience are building their careers around markets -- but honestly, if the worst of the haters here (and now, largely of course, gone, because their economic arguments so clearly failed to stand any kind of credibility test of time, and most of the rest of the people using the software saw how much money they stood to save -- there may not have been a SINGLE post about this in the AE forums) had found just a few thousand dollars to invest in Adobe on the day the company went subscription-only, they'd have more than enough money in hand to retire and live in comfort for the rest of their lives.

Only YOU can know which decisions are best for YOUR company, and if what's best for YOUR company was "not Adobe", for whatever reason, including ones that fail basic math tests, then more power to you.

But there's a very simple reason why the naysayers were colossally wrong about the very basics of how this was going to play out -- because they failed to understand the basics of the business underpinning, including the extent to which these changes were absolutely driven by the largest part of Adobe's customer base, including the kinds of customers they were hoping to acquire down the road....which again, I heartily acknowledge might no longer include YOU where once it might have.

In this sense, this forum was always misnamed. There was no debate. Either this model works for you, or it doesn't. There's no persuading to be done. Either you make deductions on your business taxes, or you don't. For me, it still wasn't a debate. I had to take out a second mortgage to buy my "cheap" Media 100 for $30,000, so I always felt like Adobe was a fantastic value. You don't? Well, for YOU, you're 100% correct. No debate. I have no idea why this forum is even still here. 😋

The question at the time, though, was, keep paying big, unpredictable piles of money that you can't deduct, or pay little predictable ones that you CAN deduct? For anybody in business, this wasn't a question at all. It was a feature request: please give us the latter, as so many companies already have.

So I'll pose the question in reverse: how much has Apple or Resolve saved you in taxes? Because Creative Cloud has saved me a freaking bundle, enough to pay for a couple of very nice vacations. Now if only I had time to take them! 😂

How 'bout you? If all you're doing is keeping that money in your pocket, you're actually in the hole. Sorry. Unless you're someone who doesn't pay taxes as a business, in which case I'm happy for you. 👍 The value proposition for you is different. And I won't say that taxes are my favorite part of being in business, but paying less in tax IS one of my favorite parts of being a Creative Cloud customer.

Plus the yummy yummy Photoshop and After Effects, which I've been using now for nearly 30 years, longer than some of you have been alive. Adobe's got some other pretty good stuff, too, or so I'm told. 😂

I'll leave you here to eviscerate me and dance over my rhetorical corpse, which is what generally happens when I post here, which is why I generally don't, and which is why I probably won't again. It's your party and you can cry if you want to, but the math is the same regardless.

And more broadly back to your original point, David, just as nothing that either Adobe or Blackmagic will do is going to suggest to the other that they should go in some other direction, the magnetic timeline is something that Apple engineers felt met their needs for what they want the product to be, rather than any broader market need that anyone else is persuaded that Apple has met in any meaningful way, or they'd have adopted it. Apple does a LOT of things that ARE persuasive, but this simply isn't one of them, or more people would have been persuaded.

This by the way should not be construed as condemnation, or even faint praise. Never forget that I am alone -- in the entire world as far as I can tell -- in having predicted that FCPX would have 10 million customers by the end of its first year. I further said that I would fire the entire marketing team if it didn't happen, and honestly, I still feel this way.

So please, nobody here better suggest that I'm less enthusiastic about X than you are. I'm mystified why you're not even a fraction as enthusiastic as *I* am!

Which is why you'll find me in the forum where there's actually stuff to debate!

Peace out,
Timmy


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Bill Davis
Re: It got so quiet here...
on May 19, 2018 at 1:36:02 am

Tim has a point, but...

I still don't see a reason to let Adobe collect money from me monthly NOW - just so I can get it back again at some point after the end of my fiscal year.

They're bigger than I am. Why should "I" be asked to fund their operations like that when I don't have to?

I (thankfully) don't have any other vendors that ask me to pay them monthly for the privilege of using their products – whether I actually open up said products or not.

So,while I can see how this model makes PERFECT economic sense for the vendor - it still makes NO sense to me at as a customer.

YMMV.

Creator of XinTwo - http://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.


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Gary Huff
Re: It got so quiet here...
on Apr 22, 2018 at 11:01:36 pm

[Rainer Schubert] "Just bought a new car, from what I spared by not subscribing. "

You purchased a new car for 3660 euros? That seems unlikely.

[Rainer Schubert] "Didn´t spend a Cent to Adobe since CC and I´m still happy. I invested in new Software and I am still surprised a lot by all the features I got and get. Especially Affinities Apps are great Alternatives to Adobes mature Giants. And so extreme fast. "

Well, yes, when you don't have clients, it's amazing what you don't need.


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Ricardo Marty
Re: It got so quiet here...
on Apr 24, 2018 at 3:53:14 pm

You don't need clients if you create your own content.

Ricardo Marty


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Gary Huff
Re: It got so quiet here...
on Apr 24, 2018 at 6:17:20 pm

[Ricardo Marty] "You don't need clients if you create your own content."

And if one is just fooling around, then you don't need to worry about professional tools that people use to make money with.


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Ricardo Marty
Re: It got so quiet here...
on Apr 24, 2018 at 9:46:46 pm

[Gary Huff] "And if one is just fooling around, then you don't need to worry about professional tools that people use to make money with."

Seems to me that the only one fooling around here is you. What, no clients?


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Gary Huff
Re: It got so quiet here...
on Apr 24, 2018 at 11:51:13 pm

[Ricardo Marty] "Seems to me that the only one fooling around here is you. What, no clients?"

How long do you think it takes me to write a single sentence? I understand if, for you, making a post on Creative Cow takes up most of your morning or afternoon, but I can usually get it done before the render percentage moves from 1% to 10%.


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Bill Davis
Re: It got so quiet here...
on Apr 28, 2018 at 11:48:37 pm

Back when this forum formed, we were all trying to figure out the right post FCP Legacy path.

I picked FCP X in June of 2011 so...

82 months ago. Which would have cost me...

$4096: Full CC rental.
or
$1632: Premiere only rental.
or
Or what actually happened for me -
$399 paid ONCE to own FCP X.

Basically, I've gotten my NLE software needs fully met for 1/10th the cost.

And improving every month.

Works for me. YMMV.

Creator of XinTwo - http://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.


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Rainer Schubert
Re: It got so quiet here...
on Jun 19, 2018 at 7:43:03 pm
Last Edited By Rainer Schubert on Jun 19, 2018 at 7:49:35 pm

[Gary Huff] "You purchased a new car for 3660 euros? That seems unlikely."
2012 -> 2018 = 6 years
1 Month of Rentware in Germany is 69.99 € * 12 = 839,88 €/yr
6 * 839,88 € = 5039,28 € seat/ f. 6 years
5039,28 * 4 seats = 20157,12 €
To be honest: Without the costs for Replacement-Software.
(Meanwhile a 2012 bought Mastercollection = cheaper than the actual Rentware.
Just for those, who are always praying CC = cheap.
Cheap are only the marketing arguments)
And, yes, I did.

[Gary Huff] "Well, yes, when you don't have clients, it's amazing what you don't need."
What makes you think that?
Clients are satisfied as before 2012.

There are some (very seldom) cases, where I wish to have a actual version of Adobes Rentware (Mostly, when I got Files in CC Formats).
But I still can live without this so called "Cloud".
And I would have changed earlier, if I had the knowledge of now.

But I think, no one is able, to bring (espec.) you to the Contra-Cloud Side.
Also, I can´t imagine, that there is one, who will bring me to your opinion.


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Greg Pasztor
Re: It got so quiet here...
on May 20, 2018 at 3:12:26 am

Sad that these tech companies have lost sight of their customers.


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Jan Janowski
Re: It got so quiet here...
on Jun 11, 2018 at 6:51:04 pm

I have a couple personal preferences:
1. I prefer to own rather than rent my software.......
2. I have my own storage, thank you..... I have no need for the cloud.
These are not negotiable.


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Ricardo Marty
Re: It got so quiet here...
on Jun 18, 2018 at 4:31:56 pm

Im with you. Dont use cloud for anything. For me most of cc is bloatware meaning I don't need them, so why would i have to pay for them. I only use Premiere,audition and after effects. Also the rent issue. I'm pleased with Resolve its got all i need. They just started a lute file that will work like lumetri plus cc captions among other things.


Ricardo Marty


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