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CC Trial just shrunk from 30 to 7 days

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Andy Field
CC Trial just shrunk from 30 to 7 days
on May 11, 2016 at 5:28:11 pm

What's up with that?

http://www.provideocoalition.com/creative-cloud-trial-reduction


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Andrew Kimery
Re: CC Trial just shrunk from 30 to 7 days
on May 11, 2016 at 5:42:04 pm

Lame.


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Tim Wilson
Re: CC Trial just shrunk from 30 to 7 days
on May 11, 2016 at 8:18:03 pm

[Andrew Kimery] "Lame."

Okay, maybe, but why does anybody need more than a day at this point? What applications have you not used that you WILL be using as a result of having a subscription?

As in, how many people haven't used Premiere or After Effects, are waiting to be persuaded by a free trial? Or haven't used it in so long that it'll take more than a week to cipher out? "I'm sort of interested...but more than a week interested."

"Well, I just want to see if the new features are any good." Fine, take more than a day to create a project and render some stuff. But more than a week? If you've got that much heavy lifting to do, surely it would be with software that you know you can get your work done, right?

I also always think about this stuff from my perspective as a former product development guy AND a former product marketing guy, and I can imagine my process being similar to this. "Hey guys, we need a 30 day trial"....then three years later thinking, "What are we gaining from having a trial longer than a week?"

I know that some folks in this forum assume that Adobe makes these decisions without careful consideration, but my guess is that they know EXACTLY how many people are making their decisions within a week, and know EXACTLY what the potential downside is from making it only a week. This is standard business research. Some MBA candidate could even do this as an extra-credit project. The research is basic enough that it wouldn't even merit much more than that.

I'm also sure that Adobe has done research on how long it takes for people to decide about ANY software. I'd be stupefied if they found that the bell curve peaks outside THREE days, much less 7.

As a customer, I can't think of a single trial that I haven't decided within hours. Maybe I'll give it a couple of days. But honestly, I'm just being theoretical. I've never taken even 2 full days. I'm not sure I've ever taken even ONE full day.

And I've been buying software since 1978. Not as long as Jim Wiseman I'm sure, but pretty long. LOL Non-issue for me.

Maybe I'm at one end of a spectrum of knowing what I like and what I don't. For example, I've moved a LOT in my adult life. 25 times in 30 years. I've looked at literally thousands of houses. I'm in and out of most of them in 90 seconds. Some I don't even bother getting out of the car. "Nope. Kitchen is on the wrong side of the house. The sun will be shining straight through the windows all summer and it'll be too hot before I even turn on the stove. NEXT!"

Some of this is because I've HAD houses where the sun baked the kitchen, which may also be why I don't see why this is an issue. Like I said, I've been buying software for nearly 40 years. I bought my first editing software in 1989. I don't labor over decisions like this anymore.

So I'm curious, in your entire life, what's a trial you've taken where you struggled and struggled and struggled, and couldn't make up your mind until day 27? Have you even ever required a full 7 days? Ever?

Be honest. Not theoretical. What's an ACTUAL example where you felt the clock so heavily breathing down your neck that you'd choke in 7 days, and be kicking yourself for choosing wrong?

This too is research that I'm certain has done, not just asking how long it takes for people to decide on Adobe software, but ANY software.

And not to put too fine a point on it, if you're killing yourself under the pressure of 7 days, you can cancel after a month for $79. If you can't afford $79 for another month after the first free week, you're DEFINITELY not a candidate for this model. Choose something else, relieve of yourself of the pressure, and live a longer, happier life.

So not being theoretical. Being REAL. Based on YOUR experience, not some imaginary customer. Have you taken more than 7 days on a trial because you absolutely, categorically couldn't decide?

Or is that, theoretically, you can't imagine having enough free time over the course of any 7 days? I'd think that would still fall so far outside any model of general use as to be a fraction of a statistically significant percentage. And if there's no business case, why do it?

Of if we're being theoretical at all, is there really really REALLY an experience you can imagine where, if you knew you had ONLY 7 days, where you'd either choke under the pressure, or would decide not to do the trial at all because 7 days isn't enough?

As much as I hate surveys, I can't imagine ever filling one out, for any company I do business with, where I'd say that having more than 7 days would have ANYTHING to do with my decision.

There's plenty of other arguments in this forum that I've had 100% sympathy for over the years, even if they weren't positions that I myself hold....but this one I'm really truly not getting AT ALL.

What am I missing?


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Andrew Kimery
Re: CC Trial just shrunk from 30 to 7 days
on May 11, 2016 at 10:31:01 pm

[Tim Wilson] ""Hey guys, we need a 30 day trial"....then three years later thinking, "What are we gaining from having a trial longer than a week?" "

What is Adobe losing by having a 30 day trial? One of the cardinal rules of Apple's App Store was 'no trials' yet they created a trail version of FCP X. Sure, I could pay $80 for a month subscription, but a few days ago it was free, not $80. For a company wrestling w/an image problem this seems like a remarkably pennywise/pound foolish thing to do. I've yet to see anyone react positively to this news on FB or Twitter. At best people are trying to brushing it off as not a big deal, and at worst people are seeing it as the beginning of the noose tightening on an user base Adobe assumes is more or less trapped.

[Tim Wilson] " I've looked at literally thousands of houses."

Houses are easy though because you rarely interact with the house itself (you interact with the stuff you put in the house). I've agonized way more over hiking boots than houses because boots are a thing you have to spend a lot of hours (and a lot of miles) interacting with before you really know if they are right for you or not. Which is why I like REI because they have a very understanding/user friendly return policy on the gear they sell. It's like they actually 'get' their customer base as opposed to a bunch of suits in a corporate office that have grown completely detached from their users. ;)


[Tim Wilson] "So not being theoretical. Being REAL. Based on YOUR experience, not some imaginary customer. Have you taken more than 7 days on a trial because you absolutely, categorically couldn't decide?"

I've hit on the wall on Avid and X trials because I have to use them for actual editing in order to get a true feel for them. I can't just poke around for a few days because that's just not enough time to get beyond the superficial. And since typically I'm working during the day my 'test time' is limited to just a few hours here and there which can easily stretch into weeks.

Again, how does it negatively impact Adobe to give users a leisurely (and customary) 30 day trial period? This just seems like a very out of touch, analytics driven decision w/o any thought into how it would land with the audience. As they say, screw job perceived is screw job achieved. ;)


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David Mathis
Re: CC Trial just shrunk from 30 to 7 days
on May 12, 2016 at 3:50:45 am

I have to agree with Tim here, for the most part. I have seen plugins with a 14 day try out period, even a 7 day period. First thing that comes to find would be Color Finale from Color Grading Central so Adobe is not new to this game. I can undetstand two weeks at most, 30 days is stretching it a bit far. I would think after two weeks you will know if the software is right for you. I am not a corporate weasel. LOL

To be serious, I do not see Adobe as dishonest, lying to its customers or being deceitful in any form. I am getting a bit tired of the conspiracy theory stuff, not saying this happening in here. Not trying to be mean spirited or anything like that. Adobe is not going to change their business model. I know that some are not happy because of the subscription only model. There is other software out there. I feel it best to find what works for you, go with it and be productive. I have learned to crying, punching holes in the wall or having a temper tantrum will not solve anything. I am through standing on the soap box.

Tetris is my favorite video game unless tracks are involved.


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Andrew Kimery
Re: CC Trial just shrunk from 30 to 7 days
on May 12, 2016 at 4:43:13 am

[David Mathis] "I would think after two weeks you will know if the software is right for you."

Maybe, maybe not. A month gives you plenty of time even with interruptions that might keep you from testing the software for days (if not weeks). In the US a 30 day return policy is typical so that might be where the 30 day trail being normal came from.

For plugins I can understand a short policy because it's a pretty specific piece of software, but this is 7 days for the entire CC suite. I guess I'm just perplexed because I'm trying to see what Adobe gains by doing this. Are they losing millions of dollars monthly to people that only sign up for the trial but never subscribe?


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David Mathis
Re: CC Trial just shrunk from 30 to 7 days
on May 12, 2016 at 4:48:38 pm

That could could be one possibility. On the otner hand, Adobe could be looking at the average number of days before a potential customer makes a decision. I feel that a 15 day try out period would be more useful. Editing requires more then just slapping clips into the timeline. I want to know how well the software can handle complex projects. I really don't think 7 days will be enough. How well will it organize the footage? How well does it handle round tripping? Will it be comptaible with a new workflow or camera format? There are so many variables that a week is not enough. This is where I have to disagree with Tim but otherwise feel he does have valid points.

Adobe should at least look extending the try out period. The last thing anyone wants to do is regret making a purchase. One other reason that Adobe took this path, and other companies as well, could be all the various training videos out there. I do like some training but prefer a hands on approach at the same time.

I am confused like others about this.


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Craig Seeman
Re: CC Trial just shrunk from 30 to 7 days
on May 12, 2016 at 7:22:37 pm

My own wild 2¢. Adobe makes these decisions because there's money involved.

Perhaps people were using the 30 day trial to open and edit old Premiere Pro, After Effects, InDesign projects and avoid the one month subscription.

I'm not sure how locked down they are on the trials but unless it's machine ID I can imagine for a couple of times a year someone might create a partition and a throw away email address which they can wipe and create anew on the occasion one needs to use the trial.

Of course shortening the trial to seven days makes a workaround for infrequent users, impractical.

I can't help but think Adobe felt they were not getting subscriptions of occasional users by allowing so much time to get work done during the trial period. I suspect Adobe's position is that if you really want to try it for that long, pay for a monthly. You want to have access to old projects, pay for a monthly as you need it.

BTW I don't think you can compare a plugin trial to an application trial. The latter is generally much deeper and takes time. I don't doubt some people want to try a complete project end to end to make a commitment.



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David Mathis
Re: CC Trial just shrunk from 30 to 7 days
on May 13, 2016 at 12:30:12 am

Craig, your post is spot on. I know that some companies strictly prohibit a try out period being used for commercial work or publishing out any work to be uploaded to various sources. As an example, The Foundry has a non commercial version of Nuke and they will not allow that software to be used in a commercial workflow. I always treat a try out period as for personal use only, never publishing out my work or using it in a commercial workflow even if it is permiited. I believe you should always pay for or rent software when working on a commercial project, or uploading to You Tube, Vimeo or other websites. I guess that makes me a square but I am cool with that.

Tetris is my favorite video game unless tracks are involved.


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Richard Herd
Re: CC Trial just shrunk from 30 to 7 days
on May 18, 2016 at 11:13:30 pm

[Tim Wilson] "Have you taken more than 7 days on a trial because you absolutely, categorically couldn't decide?
"


That's the wrong question.

How many days does Adobe need to improve their stock price month over month?

I love the software. I like the model. It's a business. They're making money. I'm making money. Everyone is happy.


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Rainer Schubert
Re: CC Trial just shrunk from 30 to 7 days
on May 23, 2016 at 9:48:39 pm

Regularly you don´t need more than 7 days to test a software product.
But Adobes "Eat all or nothing" isn´t a simple software, you have to test (before you get into a lifetime dependency)
It´s a bundle of many professional software products and you also have to test how they work together.
If you haven´t used ever before, 7 days are simply not enough to seriously test this so called "Cloud".
No one has the time to test it 24 h a day, by the way.
Adobe simply want´s to make money (OK, we all want, but they don´t have to tell us, it´s an advantage for us).

[Richard Herd] "...I'm making money. Everyone is happy."
I made (and sometimes still make) money with a fair licensed software called "Creative Suite".
I don´t make money with this so called "Cloud".
And: Really - not everyone is happy. Absolutely not. There are not half as much users of this "Cloud", as Adobe had before.
I personally know enough people, who don´t like this Cloud. Much more than those, who "can live with it".


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Walter Soyka
Re: CC Trial just shrunk from 30 to 7 days
on May 26, 2016 at 12:40:15 pm

[Tim Wilson] "So I'm curious, in your entire life, what's a trial you've taken where you struggled and struggled and struggled, and couldn't make up your mind until day 27? Have you even ever required a full 7 days? Ever? Be honest. Not theoretical. What's an ACTUAL example where you felt the clock so heavily breathing down your neck that you'd choke in 7 days, and be kicking yourself for choosing wrong?"

Smoke/Flame. C4D. Maya. Houdini. TouchDesigner. WATCHOUT. Ventuz.

You can kick the tires in a week, but for any software that has any significant learning curve, 7 days is nowhere near enough. Heck, 30 days is not enough for a busy professional, especially with the common restriction that they have to be calendar days, all in a row.

There's a risk that's way bigger than the monetary cost of most of this software: the opportunity cost of the time to learn the software well enough to evaluate it meaningfully.

I don't think it's just about "creating a project and rendering some stuff," nor as simple as saying "Nope. Kitchen is on the wrong side of the house." I'd want to learn to use an application well enough to create a meaningful project and render some stuff, and to be able to absorb enough of its design philosophy to understand why they put the kitchen in the sun, because maybe in this case there's a very good reason. I'd also want to consider it in the context of the rest of my work.

All that said, money's important, too, but I think that a free trial is way less important for a professional with subscription software than it was with perpetually-licensed software. Renting Flame for a full year at $6,000 is a much smaller leap of faith than buying it outright for $60,000 (hardware excluded in both numbers).

To be perfectly frank, I find that paying a little for what's basically an extended trial is a better incentive to actually try, learn and use the software than a free trial.

Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive [twitter]   |   RenderBreak [blog]   |   Profile [LinkedIn]


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Jim Wiseman
Re: CC Trial just shrunk from 30 to 7 days
on Sep 11, 2016 at 6:36:19 pm

Personally, I am doing fine with a no day trial. CC rental software (nor any other) will never find it's way to my computers. Resolve (lifetime actual access) and FCPX (cheap and very good) are more than replacing Adobe servitude for me. Photoshop substitutes for my usage are sprouting like mushrooms. If you wish to keep paying Adobe 'til the day you die or retire entirely, if that works for you, go for it. The credit card I had with Adobe was lost by them and never replaced. They are in my rear view mirror. Will use my perpetuals 'til they croak or when it is more convenient, but they seem intent on throwing gasoline on the fire of competition. May it burn high.

Jim Wiseman
Sony PMW-EX1, Pana AJ-D810 DVCPro, DVX-100, Nikon D7000, Final Cut Pro X 10.2.3, Final Cut Studio 2 & 3, Media 100 Suite 2.1.6, Premiere Pro CS 5 5.5 and 6.0, Resolve 12.5.1, AJA ioHD, AJA Kona LHi, Blackmagic Ultrastudio 4K, Blackmagic Teranex, Avid MC: Mid 2015 MacBook Pro Retina 15": 2 x 2013 Mac Pro Hexacore, 1TB SSD, 64GB RAM, 2-D700: Helios 2 w 2-960GB SSDs: Sonnet SEII w 2-960GB SSDs; 2012 Hexacore MacPro 3.33 Ghz, 24Gb RAM, GTX-680, 960GB SSD: Macbook Pro Retina 2015, i7, 500GB, M370X 2GB: Macbook Pro 17" 2011 2.2 Ghz Quadcore i7 16GB RAM 250GB SSD, Multiple OWC Thunderbay 4 TB2 and eSATA QX2 RAID 5 HD systems


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Thomas Mathai
Re: CC Trial just shrunk from 30 to 7 days
on Sep 12, 2016 at 8:42:27 am

Ok, so why are you here. Don't you have better things to do?



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Jim Wiseman
Re: CC Trial just shrunk from 30 to 7 days
on Sep 17, 2016 at 6:33:37 am

I'm here because I made comments when this whole rental debacle began several years ago and that heated discussion practically forced a forum on the debate subject to be established or the whole CC model would never have been anything but an argument. Not much about the software being discussed then. There was some back and forth with Mr. Biscardi about the advisability of placing your work in the hands of a company that required payment for access to your own work, forever. Just search for "chopped liver" in this forum's archives. Also "merry go round". I think that is when this forum became necessary. BTW, Walter B. has been saying some really good things about Resolve on the Cow, and I agree with him. I'm using it and FCPX. I come back here now and then to see what's up. Often enough that Tim hasn't taken my picture down. Thanks for that, Tim.

Jim Wiseman
Sony PMW-EX1, Pana AJ-D810 DVCPro, DVX-100, Nikon D7000, Final Cut Pro X 10.2.3, Final Cut Studio 2 & 3, Media 100 Suite 2.1.6, Premiere Pro CS 5 5.5 and 6.0, Resolve 12.5.1, AJA ioHD, AJA Kona LHi, Blackmagic Ultrastudio 4K, Blackmagic Teranex, Avid MC: Mid 2015 MacBook Pro Retina 15": 2 x 2013 Mac Pro Hexacore, 1TB SSD, 64GB RAM, 2-D700: Helios 2 w 2-960GB SSDs: Sonnet SEII w 2-960GB SSDs; 2012 Hexacore MacPro 3.33 Ghz, 24Gb RAM, GTX-680, 960GB SSD: Macbook Pro Retina 2015, i7, 500GB, M370X 2GB: Macbook Pro 17" 2011 2.2 Ghz Quadcore i7 16GB RAM 250GB SSD, Multiple OWC Thunderbay 4 TB2 and eSATA QX2 RAID 5 HD systems


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Jim Wiseman
Re: CC Trial just shrunk from 30 to 7 days
on Sep 17, 2016 at 9:35:20 am
Last Edited By Jim Wiseman on Sep 17, 2016 at 9:55:39 am

Just dug up that thread "Merry Go Round and Chopped Liver" https://forums.creativecow.net/thread/378/295#295

Another interesting discussion "Is the Debate Over?" https://forums.creativecow.net/thread/378/11597#11691

Interesting reading re the history of this forum and the reason for it.

To each his own. Time will tell for us all.

Jim Wiseman
Sony PMW-EX1, Pana AJ-D810 DVCPro, DVX-100, Nikon D7000, Final Cut Pro X 10.2.3, Final Cut Studio 2 & 3, Media 100 Suite 2.1.6, Premiere Pro CS 5 5.5 and 6.0, Resolve 12.5.1, AJA ioHD, AJA Kona LHi, Blackmagic Ultrastudio 4K, Blackmagic Teranex, Avid MC: Mid 2015 MacBook Pro Retina 15": 2 x 2013 Mac Pro Hexacore, 1TB SSD, 64GB RAM, 2-D700: Helios 2 w 2-960GB SSDs: Sonnet SEII w 2-960GB SSDs; 2012 Hexacore MacPro 3.33 Ghz, 24Gb RAM, GTX-680, 960GB SSD: Macbook Pro Retina 2015, i7, 500GB, M370X 2GB: Macbook Pro 17" 2011 2.2 Ghz Quadcore i7 16GB RAM 250GB SSD, Multiple OWC Thunderbay 4 TB2 and eSATA QX2 RAID 5 HD systems


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Chris Pettit
Re: CC Trial just shrunk from 30 to 7 days
on Sep 14, 2016 at 5:24:49 am

[Tim Wilson] "So I'm curious, in your entire life, what's a trial you've taken where you struggled and struggled and struggled, and couldn't make up your mind until day 27? Have you even ever required a full 7 days? Ever?"

Wow. Many times is the answer. Here's a thought: What if you are working on deadlines and can only get back to trying new software in your spare time? What about plugins (dozens of them in my case)? While dealing with raising kids and running a business. And spending time learning about hardware and cameras that are ALSO important to your business. Can't believe that anyone would ask this question.

Frankly my biggest problem is often that I get so busy after downloading a 30 day trial that even THAT is not enough time, because the complexity requires time to get back and take more wacks at it. I accept that there has to be a limit.

30 days is reasonable. 7 days is indefensible.

It amazes me how out of touch with the real world some large companies and their surrogates can be relative to their OWN customers, particularly the small ones without the resources to delegate staff to investigate new software without interruption. It takes time. It would be nice if those who sell us stuff for a lot of money didn't condescend quite so much.


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Andy Field
Re: CC Trial just shrunk from 30 to 7 days
on Sep 15, 2016 at 7:45:11 pm

Here's an example - I saw a tracking App call FAY in - looked cool - downloaded the demo (it was 30 days) but didn't get around to testing for a week later - spent a few hours with it - not as easy as it looked in the demo - put it down - had other work - out on the road for a shoot - came back to a few weeks later -- and....ooops - it's expired.

Had to call them again to reinstate

here's a better idea -- make demos with watermarked output -- few licensing problems -- and not useful for anything but testing till you buy

Andy Field
FieldVision Productions
N. Bethesda, Maryland 20852


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Gabe Strong
Re: CC Trial just shrunk from 30 to 7 days
on Sep 16, 2016 at 8:17:07 am

Yup, I'd say you pretty much nailed it Chris. Not that it matters for
me personally, because I will not be subscribing, but if I WAS considering
it......the time I have to put it through its paces would have to come
when I wasn't:

Shooting and editing for my business
Driving my kids to Girl Scouts, Boy Scouts, swimming,snow boarding,
gymnastics, softball, and basketball team practices, karate, and dance class
Coaching kids basketball and softball teams.
Serving on a non profit board of directors (regular meetings and doing marketing
for them)
Fund raising for travel for one of many activities (see above) that my kids
are involved in.
Serving as tutor to help my kids with their homework (I had almost
forgotten how algerbra is the devil.)
Teaching shooting and editing to local school kids.
Doing marketing seminars for the local SBDC.
Other random community functions (school open houses,
any games or competitions my kids or the teams I coach are having.)
Helping my wife with her business which is totally unrelated to video.

If you can figure out in 7 days if a software package is for you Tim,
more power too you. It's not happening in my world. As a matter of
fact I recently downloaded the newest Media 100 30 day trial......never once
got to use it before my trial expired.

Gabe Strong
G-Force Productions
http://www.gforcevideo.com


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